[Variant] All-In Mono Red

[Valdarith]

I don't like Phoenix at all, it's a bad Ash Zealot.

I really like Loyalist.

I think Foundry Street might just be better than Noble, in a deck built with specific interactions in mind. Its a better top deck because he still averages out as a 2.5/1, whereas a Noble is still just a 1/1 late. The batallion guys, Foundry Street, Dynacharge and Hellrider all want you getting multiple guys out and attacking. BTE, Krenko's and haste guys all help.

This leads me to Young Pyromancer:
- can be chained off BTE
- only need to cast 1 spell for him to be better than Krenko's (he's 3 power and 2 bodies, relevant for all the above).

So with that in mind, maybe we can look at shifting the core to:

4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist (you need at least 2)
4
Rakdos Cackler

4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Young Pyromancer

4 Krenko's Command
4 Dynacharge

18 Mountain

That's 54 cards. I could see something like:
- 2 Mutavault
- 2 Hellrider
- 2 of any of: Pillar of Flame / Searing Spear / Goblin Shortcutter / Weapon Surge / Mark of Mutiny

Or some other small changes; you probably start getting really good value out of Pyromancer at around 10-12 spells (averaging 2 spells a game or 4 power).

These are all good ideas. I like Young Pyromancer a lot. I'd want to run at least 10 spells with him in the deck though. Running him and Krenko's makes Denizen an easy choice, and he's obviously a better topdeck than Cackler or Noble in many cases.

Personally I feel like the final six slots are exactly as you describe. I have not tested Weapon Surge but I can imagine it leading to some big blowouts.

[deck]
Creatures (30)
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-
Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firefist Striker
2 Hellrider

Spells (10)
4 Dynacharge
4 Krenko's Command
2 Weapon Surge

Lands (20)
18 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

If we *just* want more Dynacharges, there is also Trumpet Blast

[rcwraspy]

I like the FS from weapon surge with a lot of X/1´s.

[Valdarith]

I like the FS from weapon surge with a lot of X/1´s.

So do I. It's basically Loyalists 5-6.

Damn this deck has so much synergy. I've given it a couple of test runs on MTGO with Crucibles in place of Mutavaults and Nobles instead of Young Pyromancer. This deck...OMG.

[dpaine88]

After some testing(abeit limited),

I came to a few general thoughts,

-Mutavault is just amazing, very very good and synergistic with Burning Earth in regards to mana reqs. Great to combat sweepers of any kind and battalion synergy.

-Ash Zealot is prob better than Pheonix is. A turn earlier and one creature with evasion really isn't going to win the game, especially since they will almost always be outnumbered vs our attacking creatures.

-Goblin Shortcutter hasn;t been that great, I think Firefist is better. I am trying to figure something out with Pyreheart Wolf instead. Shortcutter is a better topdeck I guess than Firefist but I like the recurring effect.

-Wasn't a big fan of Legion Loyalist UNTIL I tried him and he is a actually pretty solid, still don't want him as a 4-of but I did underestimate him in this deck at least and with the rise of token-heavy decks. The first strike is pretty helpful as well and
just helping push your opening-hand-1-drop percentage that much higher, which helps with Firefist.

[zemanjaski]

We try to play cards before we poo-poo them. You only need to go Loyalist plus Dynacharge once...

#YoloSwag

[ColdSteel]

Hello All! Brand spanking new user here...nice to be in. Great work and discussions on the new all-in or blitz red as some are calling it. I have been testing Young Pyro in the shell...not so sure about her just yet? Any further thoughts on Side? Skullcrack of some number for sure...a couple more Weapon's Surges...how about Madcap or Volcanic in the board?

[dpaine88]

Def Volcanic for sure. Its really nice in the aggro mirror. Burning Earth is solid depending on your land count.

Weapon Surge has been really nice so far, sometimes I have trouble if they drop an early body like Smiter or another 3/3 type guy. Weapon Surge is nice to get through those situations early in the game and great later on too.

[rcwraspy]

This deck seems to have an interesting tension regarding the number of copies for Legion Loyalist, Dynacharge, and Weapon Surge. If you always have a Dynacharge and a Loyalist, you don't need Weapon Surge. But you don't always. And then there are times that you'll have Loyalist and Surge but no Dynacharge, and you'll wish you had the extra point of damage.

Will probably require a lot of tinkering to get the numbers right.

[hamfactorial]

I ordered the cards for AiR and will proceed to crush the neckbeards at my LGS. Look forward to FNM reports in the next week (awwwwwww yeah).

[dpaine88]

Hahah I did the same pretty much, still deciding on this vs R/G Aggro for competitive purposes.

This is more consistent, a huge plus for aggro decks. This can also run Mutavault, which is amazing. Def more Synergy with the cards.

RG has stronger creatures pound-for-pound than we do and can defend fairly well with Boars and Reckoners. It can also run removal,since the creatures are stronger. Ghor-Clan is also great and I miss it a lot when playing AiR

[Valdarith]

This deck seems to have an interesting tension regarding the number of copies for Legion Loyalist, Dynacharge, and Weapon Surge. If you always have a Dynacharge and a Loyalist, you don't need Weapon Surge. But you don't always. And then there are times that you'll have Loyalist and Surge but no Dynacharge, and you'll wish you had the extra point of damage.

Will probably require a lot of tinkering to get the numbers right.

Actually I've found that we usually want to see two Legion Loyalists a lot of the time, so running Weapon Surge simply allows us to run more of the effect that Loyalist offers us.

[Self Medicated]

This is what I'm thinking of after M14 is released on MODO:

[DECK]
Lands (20)
18 Mountain
2 Mutavault

Creatures (29)
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Foundry Street Denizen
2 Hellrider
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Lightning Mauler
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells (11)
4 Dynacharge
4 Krenko's Command
3 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard (15)
2 Burning Earth
1 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
3 Traitorous Blood
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Weapon Surge
[/DECK]

[rcwraspy]

This deck seems to have an interesting tension regarding the number of copies for Legion Loyalist, Dynacharge, and Weapon Surge. If you always have a Dynacharge and a Loyalist, you don't need Weapon Surge. But you don't always. And then there are times that you'll have Loyalist and Surge but no Dynacharge, and you'll wish you had the extra point of damage.

Will probably require a lot of tinkering to get the numbers right.

Actually I've found that we usually want to see two Legion Loyalists a lot of
the time, so running Weapon Surge simply allows us to run more of the effect that Loyalist offers us.

I see your list above runs:

4x Loyalist
4x Dynacharge
2x Weapon Surge

Is that the count you've come to specifically for this kind of question? Without testing the numbers yet, it sounds like it's probably right.

[PirateKingAtomsk]

It may just be me but pyromancer doesn't seems like the best card for the deck, to get the most out of it you'd wanna play it t2 then bte chain t3which isn't terrible but it sets you back a turn for damage done to that point and leaves your team open to say electrickery. He capitalizes on AiR's playing lots of guys but not the speed kill aspect. I don't know but it seems like you could put something else in and run smoother with less chance of blowout

[Valdarith]

This deck seems to have an interesting tension regarding the number of copies for Legion Loyalist, Dynacharge, and Weapon Surge. If you always have a Dynacharge and a Loyalist, you don't need Weapon Surge. But you don't always. And then there are times that you'll have Loyalist and Surge but no Dynacharge, and you'll wish you had the extra point of damage.
n
Will probably require a lot of tinkering to get the numbers right.

Actually I've found that we usually want to see two Legion Loyalists a lot of the time, so running Weapon Surge simply allows us to run more of the effect that Loyalist offers us.

I see your list above runs:

4x Loyalist
4x Dynacharge
2x Weapon Surge

Is that the count you've come to specifically for this kind of question? Without testing the numbers yet, it sounds like it's probably right.

Yes, I think this is the best configuration. Weapon Surge gives us that extra Loyalist effect except with a +1/+0 clause as well. If you don't care for the effect, you could always run more Trumpet Blast instead.

I have been testing on MTGO but since I don't have access to Pyromancer or Mutavault yet the results are hardly conclusive. I definitely like having 20 land, that's for sure.

[rcwraspy]

It may just be me but pyromancer doesn't seems like the best card for the deck, to get the most out of it you'd wanna play it t2 then bte chain t3which isn't terrible but it sets you back a turn for damage done to that point and leaves your team open to say electrickery. He capitalizes on AiR's playing lots of guys but not the speed kill aspect. I don't know but it seems like you could put something else in and run smoother with less chance of blowout

I think the right way to think about Pyromancer in this deck is that he's another 2 power for 2CMC. Any triggers we get from him are gravy, and help fuel the dynacharge plan anyway.

[Voltaiclv]

Hi there. Just joined the forum.

I've apparently been playing this deck for weeks without realizing that there might be a good forum to talk about it in. Thanks for that. I've already learned a ton from browsing through the thread.

After young pyromancer got spoiled, I very quickly arrived at the "core list" zeman suggested. However, my 6 extra cards ended up being:
2 Mutavault
3 Pillar of Flame
1 Weapon Surge

So far, in testing, it's been exceedingly strong, being able to remove a couple blockers with pillars, or just deal that extra close out damage between a pillar and a trigger from Denizen.

I didn't necessarily like Hellrider. Every time I've ever drawn him, I haven't been able to throw him down on the board. Even going up to 20 lands main, I found that I get stuck on 3 very often.

However, in board, I also have a threesome of Barrage of Expendables. I was finding that against control
decks if you have a little slower start, you just die to the wrath wrath wrath plays. Barrage comes down through most counter magic early enough to matter, and synergizes well with the tokens.

[lorddax]

I was looking at barrage, but the thing that worries me is the activation cost. Do you often find the mana open going into the turn 4 wrath to get value out of it instead of a proactive turn 1 play?

[hamfactorial]

I think you're far better off splashing white for Boros Charm instead of trying to get value with Barrage in the event of a wrath. Your curve is much better by simply holding up [mana]RW[/mana] at the end of turn 3/4.

[lorddax]

I would have to agree with Ham on this one. They'll have to tap out for the wrath, and you'll be able to punish them greatly on the next turn with a full board plus whatever new stuff you play. I would run 3-4 charms as their modes are pretty much always relevant and 5-8 [mana]r[/mana][mana]w[/mana] sources.

[PirateKingAtomsk]

It may just be me but pyromancer doesn't seems like the best card for the deck, to get the most out of it you'd wanna play it t2 then bte chain t3which isn't terrible but it sets you back a turn for damage done to that point and leaves your team open to say electrickery. He capitalizes on AiR's playing lots of guys but not the speed kill aspect. I don't know but it seems like you could put something else in and run smoother with less chance of blowout

Sorry was being retarded and didn't rtfc, pyromancer belongs in a mostly burn or 20/20/20 type deck where you can get the most from his trigger using him in AiR because hes got 2 power and his triggers are gravy doesn't seems like good deck building. You could easily run gcw at the same
speed dropping it t2 on the end of a bte chain and then you have a 3 power creature which translates to more damage faster no?

[lorddax]

Im interested in that as well. However I can see Pyromancer really unlocking a powerhouse SB as suddenly spells start also creating chump blockers or sneaky interactions.

[zemanjaski]

I wouldn't run more than a single Weapon Surge; it's not that powerful an effect (Loyalist is a hasted attacker as well), and the two don't interact well. In block they actually just run two maindeck Mortars (although Pillar is unavailable) for killing bigger creatures. Basically, you need to keep your threat density up around ~40 cards to give you a VCA advantage over most decks; UWR plays ~ 27 interactive spells; so you're drawing 1.5:1 action cards in that matchup; that allows you to survive a small number of 2-for-1s and keep up pressure.

I'm still iffy on Pyromancer; if the best we're reliably getting is a single activation, it's probably a worse Gore-House Chainwalker (always a 3 power attacker, no x/1 bodies, better with Loyalist). To be getting 4 power a match, Pyromancer really wants 16 spells and that really isn't doable right now. You can't fill your deck with shocks and call it a day - those type if
cards are bad in this archetype; terrible even. Card quality is so low that you need as many cards as possible that will do 3+ damage, which Shock can never do.

[DroppinSuga]

I ordered the cards for AiR and will proceed to crush the neckbeards at my LGS. Look forward to FNM reports in the next week (awwwwwww yeah).

I refuse to read the report. I want you to record it so I can hear that silky voice again.

[Valdarith]

Who said they didn't like Krenko's Command?

[zemanjaski]

Can't believe he attacked when he was at 13 life. I bet that was a huge surprise; but the attack is super loose IMO.

[Valdarith]

Can't believe he attacked when he was at 13 life. I bet that was a huge surprise; but the attack is super loose IMO.

I know. I sat there the whole time thinking "What kind of trick does this guy have up his sleeve?" Unless he had some type of spot removal, he was dead even if he hadn't attacked, but still.

[Self Medicated]

Nice. What list are you running now Valdarith?

[Valdarith]

[deck]
Creatures (30)
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Firefist Striker
2 Hellrider

Spells (10)
4 Dynacharge
4 Krenko's Command
2 Weapon Surge

Lands (20)
18 Mountain
2 Hellion Crucible
[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

Nice.

[Self Medicated]

Valdarith, are you planning on switching out the Crucibles for Mutavaults when M14 releases on MODO?

[zemanjaski]

I can't believe that's a legitimate question

[Self Medicated]

I know, I know. Pretty much a no-brainer. But I wanted to check.

[LP, of the Fires]

I think the attack is correct depending on what he has. Assuming my math isn't off, he straight up loses to hellrider without spot removal anyways and the 5 damage that thragtusk deals is probably better then the 1 point it's preventing a large enough amount of the time to justify swinging. Yeah, he can't beat anything that blocking plays around as he only has 1 draw step to draw a card if Val draws anything and is dead to half of said anything.

[hamfactorial]

I ordered the cards for AiR and will proceed to crush the neckbeards at my LGS. Look forward to FNM reports in the next week (awwwwwww yeah).

I refuse to read the report. I want you to record it so I can hear that silky voice again.

Awwwwwwwww yeah girl, dat narration

[Valdarith]

Valdarith, are you planning on switching out the Crucibles for Mutavaults when M14 releases on MODO?

Yes, obviously.

Can't take a ton of credit for the list. It's pretty much card for card what Zem suggested, with only a couple of substitutions since M14 isn't legal in MTGO right now. Once M14 hits, I'll switch the Crucibles for Mutavaults and take out the Nobles for another two drop (either Ash Zealot or Goblin Shortcutter). I may even find room for Pyreheart Wolf as I've found myself wanting him a few times in testing.

[Platypus]

Val, any sideboard ideas? I'm leaning towards taking an AIR deck to my M14 gameday since I'm not feeling very confident with my usual Gruul deck.

I'm thinking something like this, for starters:

[deck]
SB
3 Volcanic Strength
4 Skullcrack
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Burning Earth
2 Traitorous Blood[/deck]

[lorddax]

What do you guys think about this list? Going to attempt to trade for Vaults before tomorrow night, if not I'll be running crucibles.

[deck]17 Mountain
2 Mutavault

4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
3 Lightning Mauler
3 Pyreheart Wolf
2 Hellrider

4 Dynacharge
4 Krenko's Command
2 Weapon Surge

Sideboard
2 Burning Earth
1 Mutavault
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Skullcrack
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Traitorous Blood
[/deck]

I did drop the deck to 19 lands to squeeze in wolf #3 hence the vault in the board to help with burning earth. Based on the nature of the deck and its low spell count I cut Pyro for 3 Shortcutter and 1 wolf and trimmed a mauler for wolf #2. Two hellriders topping the list to get value out of grindy games but maybe its a bad call on 19 lands.

SB prolly needs the most work, 2x Earth for multicolor
matches, cracks for life gain decks, strength for jund and other red running decks, flame for aggro decks and blood for moving big punishing blockers.

[Jack]

17 Mountains might be a bit iffy. You have so much to cast off of BTE, but I think that one time where you see 1 Mountain, 1 Mutavault, 2 1-drops, 1 BTE and 2 1R creatures will make you want to play that extra Mountain. I'd cut a wolf or a weapon surge for an extra Mountain, and, depending on personal preference, a weapon surge or shortcutter for the fourth mauler. When both are dropped on turn 2, assuming you already played a creature last turn, a shortcutter will never deal more damage than a lightning mauler. LM is also often the better play off of BTE.