[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:15 am

After thinking about it for a while, depending on the deck, 4 Chandra's makes perfect sense if you don't have redundant 4 drops like hellriders. The scry lands plus magma jet also makes Chandra's 0 ability pretty insane.

Another interesting deck idea is UR pyromancer. The blue elemental lord that poops out 1/0's equal to your devotion to blue pumps pyros tokens, Purphorous counts all the ETB's, blue gives you more scry for Chandra, and now there's a functional fact or fiction reprint.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:20 am

Okay, so they are pushing mono black--hard:

And another Chris Rahn Mythic at that...

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:26 am

Makes me want to play jund with xenagos of all things. CAUSE I WANT TO RAMP INTO MONSTROUS CREATURES.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:38 am

I feel like every time I see new spoilers I go "holy fuck, [insert color] is gonna be awesome this season."

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:39 am

Holy fuck, black is gonna be awesome this season.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:47 am

Holy fuck, black is gonna be awesome this season.

Just to reinforce that statement:

: hero's downfall.jpg (211.04 KiB) Viewed 6288 times

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:50 am

I just realized that the Monstrous mechanic was a clever way to neuter reanimation strategies. Sure, you can discard Medusa here and then target her with Obzedat's Aid, but you don't get the ETB trigger that you want her for. Neat concept...forcing fair to some extent (except in green, of course, but BIG is supposed to be their thing).

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:47 am

Except they have no cheap card draw or life gain, so you just burn them out as they take forever to win. Also can't beat a resolved Chandra. UB is close to a critical mass of good cards, but they're missing a few key elements. They just don't have the right mix of 1 and 2 cost spells to see them through to the end game right now; losing think twice and alchemy really hurts them as the next best alternatives, pilfered plans and read the bones, are sorceries and expose you very badly.

But yeah, UB is very weak to walkers game 1 and Chandra in particular is a nightmare.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/ ...
8742_n.jpg

I don't really know the english name for the moment (Fall of the Hero?) but it's basically a Murder that also targets planeswalkers (or an insta-speed Dreadbore for 1BB).
Not sure if that's playable for a 3 CMC, yet it could be an answer.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:53 am

Well yes, but my post was written before that spoil

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:01 am

Well yes, but my post was written before that spoil

... and I've got to learn to read threads until the end before posting, since such spoiler had already came up.
Also, today my english is crappier than usual

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:02 am

Also, about the reanimating cards, Breaking // Entering is slow as fuck but still counts

Pyreheart Bezerra · Postby **Pyreheart Bezerra** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:16 am

I just realized that the Monstrous mechanic was a clever way to neuter reanimation strategies. Sure, you can discard Medusa here and then target her with Obzedat's Aid, but you don't get the ETB trigger that you want her for. Neat concept...forcing fair to some extent (except in green, of course, but BIG is supposed to be their thing).

monstrous isnt an ETB effect. So reanimating it will not affect its ability to become monstrous.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:41 am

I just realized that the Monstrous mechanic was a clever way to neuter reanimation strategies. Sure, you can discard Medusa here and then target her with Obzedat's Aid, but you don't get the ETB trigger that you want her for. Neat concept...forcing fair to some extent (except in green, of course, but BIG is supposed to be their thing).

monstrous isnt an ETB effect. So reanimating it will not affect its ability to become monstrous.

Well, exactly.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:17 am

I just realized that the Monstrous mechanic was a clever way to neuter reanimation strategies. Sure, you can discard Medusa here and then target her with Obzedat's Aid, but you don't get the ETB trigger that you want her for. Neat concept...forcing fair to some extent (except in green, of course, but BIG is supposed to be their thing).

monstrous isnt an ETB effect. So reanimating it will not affect its ability to become monstrous.

Sorry PB...I may not have been clear. What I was saying was that by creating the Monstrous mechanic, Wizards was able to put
creatures with remarkably powerful effects in the set without allowing reanimation strategies to cheat those effects into play. So you can reanimate the gorgon, but if you want her to kill everything on the field, you have to pay for Monstrous just like everyone else. The mechanic maintains balance, which I'm glad for after having Reanimator cheat in lifegain and exile effects ad infinitum this past year.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:20 am

An interesting option for WW and Boros...pump plus protection:

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:34 am

Ooooh sweet.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:41 am

And another winning shirt design for all the Whedonites...

: FemaleWhite2-254x349.jpg (23.27 KiB) Viewed 6249 times

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:33 am

An interesting option for WW and Boros...pump plus protection:

HeliodSpear.jpg

New Martyr staple?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:17 pm

Loving Hero's Downfall and the white enchantment artifact. White has a mana sink now and that is intriguing. Love all the people putting it down. Mtgs has some fine card evaluators.

Also, shouldn't Hero's Downfall see some eternal play, at least in sideboards? Seems like a great way to deal with JTMS at instant speed if you're outside of blue.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:37 pm

It's not a mana sink redbro.

Helios · Postby **Helios** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:09 pm

I want Spear + YP + Hammer + all the burn ever in the same deck, but something tells me that is wishful thinking.

I'm playing 1 hammer main, 1 board. I can see cutting a Reckoner but definitely not a Chandra now that they can more easily answer her.

True story, my brain hadn't caught up to that yet. Man I'm so excited for this season, it looks like it'll be a good one.

Okay, so they are pushing mono black--hard:

Doesn't feel pushed to me? This is an effect black has gotten before, and on cheaper fliers to boot.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Sorry Helios...didn't mean "pushed" as in power creep but rather "pushing" as in hitting people over the head with "we're going to at least make it look like we're letting mono black be a thing". The gorgon is meant to be enticing, but I don't know that she will ascend beyond casual unless there are other playable gorgons to give her value. Otherwise she's a very expensive wrath on a slow, stompy body.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 pm

Yup, that Gorgon is just another big dumb creature that's slightly more survivable due to being Black.

Fine with me - I like easy wins.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:42 pm

That midrange Boros brew looks enticingly good. But I still want to try to jam R/B, even without the Temple to help the mana-base. It'd be a similar shell, but would tear apart hands with Thoughtseize and Rakdos's Return while also burning and spitting out Young Pyromancer tokens.

Do you think decks without the appropriate Temple will be at a large disadvantage?

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:05 pm

Probably not a large disadvantage, but if the choice is between two similar decks with roughly the same power level but one has 4 more sources of free Scry then there better be a real good reason not to go with that one.

That being said, I am still on the fence between Boros and Rakdos - the big draw to Rakdos being the Return and a baller 4-drop in Exava.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:15 pm

Probably not a large disadvantage, but if the choice is between two similar decks with roughly the same power level but one has 4 more sources of free Scry then there better be a real good reason not to go with that one.

That being said, I am still on the fence between Boros and Rakdos - the big draw to Rakdos being the Return and a baller 4-drop in Exava.

It's kind of the same, but has an entire additional angle of attack in hand disruption. The core is:

Young Pyromancer
Chandra, Pyromaster
Thoughtseize
Magma Jet
Rakdos's Return

I want to play it, I want it to be good, and I want to call it Pyroseize. And I want it all NOW! Because I'm an impatient American bastard.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:34 pm

It's not a mana sink redbro.

Well no, not in the strictest sense I guess. But it gives them something to use their mana on in the late game at least. I'm sure white is thankful for it since they haven't printed Figure or Student of Warfare or Order of the White Shield or any other "mana sink" creature for mono white besides Capashen Knight in a long time, and Capashen Knight isn't playable.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:38 pm

Also, shouldn't Hero's Downfall see some eternal play, at least in sideboards? Seems like a great way to deal with JTMS at instant speed if you're outside of blue.

In Legacy you're basically never out of blue unless you're playing Charbelcher or Elves. It will be really good in Modern though.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:10 pm

Also, shouldn't Hero's Downfall see some eternal play, at least in sideboards? Seems like a great way to deal with JTMS at instant speed if you're outside of blue.
In Legacy you're basically never out of blue unless you're playing Charbelcher or Elves. It will be really good in Modern though.

True, you don't see much black without blue, and Elves doesn't want to play this card.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:54 pm

Possibly doing an M14 sealed PTQ this weekend.

Pros: I like PTQs.

Cons: Riverside

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:15 pm

Clearly, we're an eloquent bunch of fuckers.

We should put that line on the shirt.

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:21 pm

Possibly doing an M14 sealed PTQ this weekend.

Pros: I like PTQs.

Cons: Riverside

Ugh, I know that Riverside feel

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:25 pm

Cons: M14 Sealed is BORING as fuck

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:35 pm

I actually love m14 and I enjoy the sealed format(assuming I don't have a lot of white...).

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:39 pm

That's racist bro

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:40 pm

strange rambling note of testings from yesterday.

Hammer is good. Like really good Comes down when i want it to, and churning out 3/3 hastes turn 7+ will get there.

Blue based control was a non issue. u/w/r and esper struggle to keep up without cheap card advantage, and against chandra they just folded. U/b is now stronger due to new removal obv.

Ash Zealot is probably the worst card in my main deck atm. she gets absolutely stonewalled by cartydid, and otherwise sits there as the opponent drops 4/4s and 5/5s. She still provides decent damage early against other decks, so I probably would keep her in.

Big G/R is by far the worst matchup i have encountered. the versions i have been playing against use removal to get out of the early game, and start dropping hydras (Kalonian, and Polukranos) to stabilize. Then they can either drop Domri, Garruk, or Xenagos to provide card advantage that you just can't outrace.
I did have mana problems most games, and my list is using Rethirst's, not yours Z, so it has more creatures and no charms main-deck.
I do think with more tuning you can get this matchup more favorable, probably by using more burn as more reach.

Nykthos is a card. I've seen a couple of matches where it generated 6 mana, usually to fuel a huge monstrous, usually polukranos.

My favorite line of the whole night was against U/R control

Him: Play Ral Zarek, Bolt your Phoenix, go
Me: EOT Magma jet you, return phoenix, scry, put a land on top.
Next turn,: Play phoenix, activate mutavault, kill ral, two to you?
I felt like a mastermind.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:55 pm

That's racist bro

LP...

MattT · Postby **MattT** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:53 pm

About the midrange deck, Boros or Rakdos, is there not space for a single red god?

-He needs 4 more Devotion to "animate" = 2 Phoenixes/Reckoner+Pyromancer.
-Phoenixes, Hammered mountains & Elementals turn into free Shocks.
-Zealot, Reckoner (and Elemental swarms) loves the "all creatures get +1" effect, see Carytid, which opens up for more burn to the dome aka recycling Phoenixes aka free shocks.

All armchair theory. Just curious to what you think.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:19 pm

At least in my version I'm only running 16 creatures so I won't turn him on often and if that's the case I feel I'm overpaying for the other effects.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:28 pm

Something I neglected to notice: Purphorous gives legion loyalist a repeatable pump affect. That's kind of exciting. Especially seeing as I imagine I'm going to lose to hexproof plants a lot in the future.

Dies to Removal

[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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