[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[zemanjaski]

They're definitely in consideration for SB slots, maybe MD if you cut Zealot (probably the weakest card)

[Link]

Falkenrath aristocrat's synergy with mutavault+brimstone volley makes it too good to not run over hellrider I think James

[zemanjaski]

Probably. Also would enable more aggressive sudeboard options.

Hellrider is nice with Elemental Tokens and isn't screwed by them bring in Golgari Charm.

Decisions, decisions.

[zemanjaski]

I'll defer to regular Dos Rakis players on technology, they are all way more familiar with the ideas than I am.

[photodyer]

My first question is whether it's worth losing the Burning Earth advantage of Mono Red for black removal...I think this is the question that has Rakdos off the radar at present. The best creatures in red REALLY lock us into red sources, which means nonbasics or dorks to run other colors. Kibler managed to keep his nonbasic count to 9 with his meta-burning G/R list, but his omnipresent dorks made GG on T2 realistic with all those mountains and forests and allowed the disparity needed to effectively run BE. At 15 nonbasics, "Vault Rakis" is much closer to parity with 3-color decks, which seems to rule out BE punishment out of the board. Again, I'm not saying that's wrong, but the underlying question defines whether Rakdos is a worthwhile pursuit.

I personally love Aristocrat and am going to cry bloody tears for her when she leaves Standard, but the CoDH and Tragic Slip ubiquity that Jund has brought about has
made the meta hostile to her. As Ratchet Bomb continues to stifle token-based decks, these cards are likely to wane in popularity and open a door back up for FA, but I'm not sure about this week.

[zemanjaski]

I prefer Doom Blade against Naya; BE against Jund; probably pretty even vs UWR (black gives Duress).

[Lightning_Dolt]

Is there a way to sell your cards if you quit MODO?

[zemanjaski]

Word of mouth / Paypal etc.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Word of mouth / Paypal etc.

I remember you mentioning liquidating packs before. How does that work?

[Platypus]

Platypus - I would run Nobles and Denizens together in your AiR list. This might just be me, but I would cut 2 Mutavault and 2 Hellrider for 4 Denizens.

I must say that I'd like them both as well, since I wouldn't be surprised if someone is playing a Human-based deck at the GD. As for what to cut, I can get behind cutting Mutavault, although then 4 Hellriders get awkward. And I think Hellriders are quite essential in this deck. There's a reason for 4 Hellriders + 4 Dynacharges, you want to maximize your chance of drawing either one, or two of them, because they are game-winners. Each time I've slammed a Hellrider on the table it's pretty close to GG. So I don't know really. I could drop the Shortcutters and put in just two FSD. Or another
thought I had was Brimstone Volleys instead of Shortcutters, to get a few more finishers and big creature removal. But I'm starting to feel that I need to playtest AiR and I don't have much time to do that, so it's probably better at this point to just go with a more familiar deck.

[Platypus]

Platypus, this is my current KDW, totally taking into consideration of PSully's advice and utilizing the can't block, won't block philosophy :

---

[Deck]
Creatures 31
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Legion Loyalist
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Lightning Mauler
4x Firefist Striker
4x Pyreheart Wolf
4x Hellrider

Burn 7
3x Pillar of Flame
4x Searing Spear

Land 22
4x Mutavault
18x Mountain

Sideboard
3x Burning Earth
3x Skullcrack
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Traitorous Blood
4x Volcanic Strength
[/deck]

The deck is designed to use Battalion triggers to its advantage, thanks to Big Mudes, while ignoring blockers as it sets up for a Hellrider finale. Sideboard punishes the decks with bigger strategies
utilizing ambitious manabases and lifegain, while also offering an all-in approach to the mirror with Volcanic Strengths as additional evasive enablers.

It's a lot of fun.

Yes, it's almost like the other version of the deck. But fuck Ash Zealot right now. There, I said it. The deck doesn't need her. I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

I also understand it could benefit from Dynacharge. But I want to burn things instead.

Thanks for the deck update! I like it a lot, but it didn't make my decision any easier, well I perhaps lean a bit more towards KDW right now. I totally understand leaving out Ash Zealot. It's good, but with BTE available and pretty much a must in any red-based aggro deck, the RR casting cost makes it awkward. And I've never seen any benefit from her third ability, but perhaps it's just the decks I've played against. Right now everything is chainable to BTE if played on
curve.

About that sideboard...based on my previous experience locally, I think I would have put the exact same cards in it if I'd made it myself.

Dynacharges...well, you'd have to drop the Pillars. Maindeck Pillars of course free up space in the SB. Although Dynacharges would be Hellriders 5-7, and that would give you more finishers. With Dynacharges in the deck Ash Zealots get a little more attractive. Hmm, decisions decisions...

[RedNihilist]

Platypus, this is my current KDW, totally taking into consideration of PSully's advice and utilizing the can't block, won't block philosophy :

[Deck]
Creatures 31
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Legion Loyalist
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Lightning Mauler
4x Firefist Striker
4x Pyreheart Wolf
4x Hellrider

Burn 7
3x Pillar of Flame
4x Searing Spear

Land 22
4x Mutavault
18x Mountain

Sideboard
3x Burning Earth
3x Skullcrack
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Traitorous Blood
4x Volcanic Strength
[/deck]

The deck is designed to use Battalion triggers to its advantage, thanks to Big Mudes, while ignoring blockers as it sets up for a Hellrider finale. Sideboard punishes the decks with bigger strategies utilizing ambitious manabases and lifegain,
while also offering an all-in approach to the mirror with Volcanic Strengths as additional evasive enablers.

It's a lot of fun.

Yes, it's almost like the other version of the deck. But fuck Ash Zealot right now. There, I said it. The deck doesn't need her. I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

I also understand it could benefit from Dynacharge. But I want to burn things instead.

FWIW, I'm running a very similar list:

[Deck]
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
2x Stonewright
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Lightning Mauler
4x Firefist Striker
4x Pyreheart Wolf
4x Hellrider

4x Pillar of Flame
4x Searing Spear

4x Mutavault
18x Mountain

Sideboard
3x Burning Earth
3x Skullcrack
3x Mizzium Mortars
3x Traitorous Blood
3x Volcanic Strength
[/deck]

Ash Zealot + BTE + Mutavault makes the game unplayable, so BYE BYE Ash Zealot :
Stonewright doesn't do too well with only 18
red sources, but I've got a better "feeling" with him rather than Loyalist / Denizen / Shock.
Also, I see too many dorks / Voices / undying guys at my LGS to consider going down from the 4x Pillars...

[Platypus]

Ash Zealot + BTE + Mutavault makes the game unplayable, so BYE BYE Ash Zealot :
Stonewright doesn't do too well with only 18 red sources, but I've got a better "feeling" with him rather than Loyalist / Denizen / Shock.
Also, I see too many dorks / Voices / undying guys at my LGS to consider going down from the 4x Pillars...

Stonewrights and Pillars is definitely an idea for me. Having faced three Voices at the same time in my last tournament makes me very wary of not having Pillars maindeck or not in the 75 at all. And there will be dorks at the GD, that I'm sure of.

If I go the Dynacharge route instead of Pillars, then I definitely want a few Loyalists as well. +2/+0 together with First Strike and Trample is good synergy.

[photodyer]

Just realized that an R/g Aggro deck won SCG IQ in Columbia last weekend (middle o' Missouri, home of the U of M main campus):


Mono-Red Aggro Benjamin Depew
1st Place at StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier on 8/3/2013

[deck]
Creatures (30)
2 Ash Zealot
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Hellrider
1 Lightning Mauler
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (21)
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground

Spells (7)
4 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame


Sideboard
2 Burning Earth
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Skullcrack
2 Thunderbolt
2 Blasphemous Act
1 Mark of Mutiny
2 Rolling Temblor
[/deck]

Manabase seems ambitious for trying to hit boars on-curve, but it evidently worked. The rest of the top 8 was UWR, Kibler GR, Jund, Mono Red Blitz,
Ghost Pants, UWR and Jedi Jund in order. I've no idea what the player base was, so I've no context for the win. BA and Temblor in the board seem pretty all-in ballsy...

[Kaitscralt]

Is there a way to sell your cards if you quit MODO?

I periodically flip cards to MTGO traders when I have $500+ worth of stuff. They're fast and reliable.

[zemanjaski]

From Pedro Carvalho (Megaphone):

[deck]
18 Mountain
2 Mutavault

4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
2 Lightning Mauler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

1 Faithless Looting
1 Geistflame
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Shock
4 Searing Spear


SB:
2 Mutavault
2 Electrickery
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
4 Burning Earth[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

I caught a little bit of Travis Woo's stream last night. I couldn't take too much of it as the topics he was discussing were incredibly annoying, but he was running a Dega tokens list featuring both Hellrider and Ogre Battledriver. I think he had the full compliment of Krenko's Command, Gather the Townsfolk, and Lingering Souls. This is obviously a horrible choice against CoDH and Ratchet Bomb heavy metas, but I'm more curious about the inclusion of both Hellrider and Battledriver. Would it be forcing it too much to include both in an AiR type list? Battledriver may not be incredibly necessary, but in theory he seems to make your small drops much better top-decks mid to late game.

[zemanjaski]

Are you asking if it is too much to include more than 4 4 drops in an AIR deck?

I'll let that sink in.

[Platypus]

Hmm, Battledrivers in my version from last page:

[deck]AIR[/deck]

[windstrider]

I'll defer to regular Dos Rakis players on technology, they are all way more familiar with the ideas than I am.

The big question for Falkenrath vs. Hellrider: do you want to hammer them or swarm them? I loves me some Falkenrath as she is one sexy vampire. She works well with the 'vaults, the Pyromancers, and the tokens. She's much more vulnerable to Slip and Curse, which are seeing a lot more play. Hellrider, though, can just steal games out of nowhere, especially with Pyromancer and 'vault. My gut says that the 'riders are better, especially for a deck looking for incremental damage.

Adding black for Doom Blade and Rakdos's Return is very tempting. Dreadbore is another strong choice for a black splash. And, for some reason, Olivia Voldaren
feels like she might have a home here.

It's weird. Dos Rakis is looking for constant pressure against the opponent, even in games where it assumes a more controlling mode. It's a "heavy" deck. The Pyromancer decks are control decks picking off threats and attacking with incremental damage, looking to get the most out of each individual creature. I think this is that "lightbulb" moment where I finally get how red can be a controlling, subtle color.

[rcwraspy]

Are you asking if it is too much to include more than 4 4 drops in an AIR deck?

I'll let that sink in.

lol. AiR was clearly the wrong example - but a mono-red aggro deck of some sort.

Although, I really like Platypus's list. I don't know how to classify that though - is it too big to be AiR, with too many lands? That's the kind of build I was referring to, though.

[lorddax]

All of Z's brewing had me work this up for a buddy for GameDay:

[deck]Festering Angel Cauldron[/deck]

Testing against aggro using KDW, it doesn't do half bad. Then I put in loyalist. But after that, this deck is heavy synergy and almost plays as a combo deck. Hitting the combo gets you 4 life a turn, a -4/-4 kill spell, and a 4/4 flying angel. For 2 or 3 mana. Not sure how competitive but should give him some fun matches at gameday. You guys have any idea for a SB? Not sure what are good options atm in B and W. Arrest? Pacifism? Far//Away or Devour flesh for Bant Pants? Mutilate for aggro? BlOb?

If the deck does well he'll pick up the shocks to shore up the small mana issue, deck
only needs one white source by turn 4. Possibly t3 gate?

[zemanjaski]

Start with a real manabase and lingering souls please.

[lorddax]

How the fuck did I forget about souls?!

-4 Swamp +4 Godless Shrine (These aren't in yet cause hes coming back after stopping around 6th ed)
-4 Plains +4 Isolated Chapel (same as above)
-1 Orzhov Charm +1 Lingering Souls -1 Post +1 Lingering Souls -2 Ultimate Price +2 Lingering Souls

[deck]Festering Angel Cauldron v2[/deck]

Also for anyone around the commutable Northern VA area, theres a tourney set coming up at the end of the month over the weekend:
http://www.novaopen.com/?page_id=3229

Sat 3k Standard&Modern tournament with last chance qualifier on
Thursday(8/29) at 6pm.

Anyone thinking bout hitting it up with me?

[Nuwen]

I lost to a similar deck last FNM. Add Blood Baron of Viz and Vault of Horseshit for more wincons, less problems.

[LP, of the Fires]

From Pedro Carvalho (Megaphone):

[deck]
18 Mountain
2 Mutavault

4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
2 Lightning Mauler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

1 Faithless Looting
1 Geistflame
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Shock
4 Searing Spear


SB:
2 Mutavault
2 Electrickery
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
4 Burning Earth[/deck]

No.

Also, why does the name sound familiar? I keep thinking "World Champion", but feel it's wrong.

[hamfactorial]

Megafone is an MTGO grinder

[PirateKingAtomsk]

I lost to a similar deck last FNM. Add Blood Baron of Viz and Vault of Horseshit for more wincons, less problems.

pretty sure it could also use some purge the profane cause you know. . . phallusies

[LP, of the Fires]

If anyone's interested in the best, coolest most rewarding deck in standard, check out the aristocrats thread viewtopic.php?f=81&p=87534#p87534

[lorddax]

IF I had the lands Id try Aristocrats.

Forgot to mention that he was trying to build a complete as possible deck off flipping a rare drafted Hydra.

Blood Baron is on the upgrade list if he starts grinding this one as well as Vault of the Archangel now. Duals of course too.

Any ideas on SB?

[lorddax]

Did you ever want to reach thru the internet and slap someone? Had someone trying to argue that Fiendslayer shuts down red aggro. Like we don't have cards like Mortars, Bonfire, Shortcutter, Pyreheart and Firefist.....

[LP, of the Fires]

Actually yes. For the first time...ever(?) I've gotten into a facebook argument with some random ho about various draft strategies and this bitch is just way to full of herself.

[Alex]

Oh man, facebook hos are the worst kind of hos.

[lorddax]

The internet is full of stupid today. Community Cup team announced. Scrolled whole list....no interview with thirst's vorthose. How the hell is the largest influence in the MTG scene not in the community cup?

[Alex]

So the Community Cup team is Melissa DeTora, Reid Duke, and MJ.

[lorddax]

Those were the ones that made me think we have a chance.

[hamfactorial]

MJ and Reid's personalities will fill the void left by DeTora.

[redthirst]

The internet is full of stupid today. Community Cup team announced. Scrolled whole list....no interview with thirst's vorthose. How the hell is the largest influence in the MTG scene not in the community cup?

I Internet wasn't big enough to host the interview.

[rcwraspy]

MJ and Reid's personalities will fill the void left by DeTora.

I haven't spent much time talking with her, but I have met her. I'm fairly certain there's a bubble of black hole surrounding her. Then again, she's a pro and we were just chatting while waiting between rounds at a TCG $5k in Providence. I'm sure her personality doesn't exactly come shining forth when she's chatting with random strangers.

[Alex]

MJ and Reid's personalities will fill the void left by DeTora.

I haven't spent much time talking with her, but I have met her. I'm fairly certain there's a bubble of black hole surrounding her. Then again, she's a pro and we were just chatting while waiting between rounds at a TCG $5k in Providence. I'm sure her personality doesn't exactly come shining forth when she's chatting with random strangers.

We've shared a few rooms. She's every bit as awkward as you probably picked up on from your brief interaction.

Sweet girl, just...hella strange. I have Asperger's
and she even makes me look socially normal.