[Primer] R/g Gruul Sligh

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:39 am

This deck runs desecration demon, Vampire Nighthawk, Diciple of Bolas, Thragtusk, mutilate, victim of night etc.

First game mulled to five. You can guess how it went.

Second game he mulled to 5, i kept a loose hand hand maybe SB'd incorrectly, then flooded to nine lands.

How do you guys think Domri is in this M/U?

I sided out 3x pillar of flame and 3x madcap skills.

I sided in 3x mizzium mortars (was thinking about VNH) 2x Tundermaw and 1x kessig wolfrun.

My thundermaw hit t5 but ate victim of night immediately. Then I flooded.

I think my SBing was probably incorrect.

I'm starting to feel like skullcrack might be optional. I wanted to side it in, but couldn't think of anything I wanted to side out.

Maybe stromkirk nobles should have come out, but with his firsg creature being T3, I figured they would do some work.

Midnight_v · Postby **Midnight_v** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:45 am

You have to run it, johnny.
It's NOT optimal but it's a necessary evil.
Vampire Nighthawk is a recent addition frankly, their concession to our deck because traditionally we run
geralf's messenger but I get the change

I recognize you're running a diffretnt list but if you can add these in you'll to a lot better vs them.
+2 hound of griselbrand
+4 Rangers guile
+4 skullcrack

Mizzium mortars isn't terrible if they're running VNH but damn that sucks. I suppose you can add go
2 guile
2 mortars (bringing your removal up to 6 answer to vnh)
4 skull crack.

Skullcrack is important because they really WANT to sac a creature to disciple. Meh. . .

Link · Postby **Link** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:12 am

SOOO BABY

Stomped some control tonight.

But I tuned my deck to it.

I playtested out war chants and gruul charms... and kinda immediately scrapped them. I will try fitting warchants later because they are still important against junk rites and such, but the field was all control/mirror (little midrange and rites) so I ran this list:

Spoiler alert: RANCOR IS BACK BABY

[deck]
30
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Lightning Mauler
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Hellrider

10 Spells
4x Searing Spear
3x Pillar of Flame
3x Rancor

20 Land
10x Mountain
4x Stomping ground
4x Rootbound Crag
2x Temple Garden

Sideboard
3x Hound of Griselbrand
2x Kessig Wolf-run
2x Blasphemous Act
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Hellrider
3x Volcanic Strength
3x Ranger's Guile[/deck]

Moving forward i'd probably jsut take out the 1 ofs in the SB for 2x war
chant. Anyway, I made a lot of changes last minute based on gut, like Blast acts when I said I didn't like the card (didn't see it so moot, but if I had seen it in the match-ups it would've been house). Also the numbers are pretty unrefined, I ran 3 LM because he's the weakest and didn't know what else to cut. A reckoner? I just can't cut him. I generally only want to see one LM in my opener and he's pretty tech then.

I'll do a full report when its not 2am. I went 5-1 and got the cackler, losing to the SAME Jund player during R1 of the WPN event last saturday.... which is hilarious because I went undefeated after losing tohim then too. He's my lucky Julio

I'll leave these here:
R1 vs. Jund
R2 vs. Mono Red
R3 vs. Jund
R4 vs. UWr Control
R5 vs. Junk Aristocrats
R6 vs. Bant Control

Ranger's guile was HOUSE against bant and uwr. It was HORRIBLE against jund, would not do again. I think my hounds connected once but I was always glad to see them.

Rancors in G1 really went the fucking
distance against control though. Against the Junk crats too.... well I'll wait for the full report.

Link · Postby **Link** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:15 am

sac'ing a dude to disciple gives them a shit ton of cards

skullcrack is still a reactionary card that you ahve to leave up mana for instead of building your board state.

Ranger's guile is more pro-active because it lets you be more aggressive with your bloodrushes and [rancor] enchantments. I think 2 skullcrack is fine but that's still about as high as I'd go personally.

Did I mention I ran mb pillars? Because I normally never run MB pillars.... I even hit someone for lethal with a topdecked pillar for 2 exact so hell it wasn't even dead against them. It freed up so much SB space (and hell the KWr might be unnecessary for 2 skullcracks? *shrug* Hound+KWR is just unstoppable when its online. Also lets you put in more land for curving out on the play).

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:54 am

So, I'm going to a tournament trying to pilot this:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells
4 Searing Spear
2 Pillar of flame

Lands
12 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden

Sideboard
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Zealous Conscripts
2 Pillar of Flames
3 Skullcrack
2 Hound of Griselbrand
[/deck]

This may still be subject to variations, but I feel like it's pretty definitive.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:56 am

...now thinking of taking out the Mizzium mortars for 2x Kessig Wolf Run + 1 Hellkite...
I feel like I'm still too RDW-minded for Gruul

Link · Postby **Link** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 pm

Are you a controlling red lpayer or a tap-out all-in red player?

I've played with this deck for over 5 months now... I've dropped very few games in which a mortars would've saved me.

The games I've lost are ones in which I flooded and had nothing to do with my mana, my votes on Wolf-run and a hellkite, though I'd just run 2-3 hellkites OR Zealous conscripts, not both.

And I really just can't endorse ranger's guile enough. Domri was the "old" tech for that slot, but you need something against these UWr control decks that are running rampant. Try it out as a 2-of and see if you want to definitely see them. Hint: there's no better feeling than making their warleader's helix fizzle.

Sure you could skullcrack, but your dude is still dead

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:06 pm

So, I'll write something more extensive later, but I pretty much went top 4 while tilting the whole day long.

I checked the deck one last time before leaving and found out I didn't insert the Searing Spears, and I've dropped my last game after noticing I was playing 62 cards (wrong sideboarding).
Funnily enough it was against an UWR control.

I'll be back after dinner.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:13 pm

Look forward to a report. I'm going to be switching up my RDW to this Gruul build for next week.

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:28 pm

Well, my GPT started out great, but ended badly. I ran this:

[deck]Lands (21)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
11 Mountain

Creatures (35)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (4)
4 Searing Spear

Sideboard
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Ranger's Guile
3 Volcanic Strength [/deck]

I dropped the Firefist Strikers completely for Ash Zealots maindeck. It opened up some space in the sideboard, which I agonized a lot over before the tournament. Some small thoughts about the rounds (I'm lousy with taking notes).

First round: BGR Scavenge deck.

Got of with a complete nut start on the draw. Second turn 3x BTE + Mauler, third turn Boar.Not much else to say about that. Second game was more even. Late
in the game we both got warnings, he for announcing the wrong damage earlier, me for allowing it to pass. I probably managed to get a victory do to this though, because I would have played differently with 2 less life. Oh well. And I got to see first hand how lousy a top-decked Vexing Devil is... 2-0

Second round: BG (Desecration Demon and the rest + lots of removal).

I knew this deck needed to be out-raced so I tried my best to speed up the games. Desecration Demon is nasty when it hit the table, but I managed to get enough creatures out in the third game to keep it down. 2-1

Third round: BGW, various tokens and Voice of Resurgence.

First game was over quick with a victory for me, second game was over just as quick with him victorious (2x Voice in opening hand + plus the third drawn during first turn, urgh...). And I got another varning for forgetting to throw away a card at the end of an early turn. Third game was more grindy, but I managed to win it. 2-1

Whoo, 3-0 in matches! Went better
than I expected, one more victory and I'm in the top 4.

Fourth round: Rg Gruul sligh. Almost mirror match, so coin toss...

Well, I started on the play and won the first game. Second went to him, and the third as well. I got him down to 3 in the last game, but couldn't top deck anything to get a victory. Oh well, he had a better SB for the mirror match, one more VS and Mortars. 1-2

Fifth round: Junk Rites, oh crap.

I was on the draw first game, but got off to a good start. Then the Thragtusks started appearing, so he stabilized and I lost quickly after that. Second game was mine from the start, nothing to comment about it. Third game I got him down to 7, then Obzedat hit the table. We kept a close eye at the other matches though, because there was a chance for us to both go to the top 4 with an intentional draw. But when it became clear that an ID wouldn't be enough, he finished the game. 1-2

So, 3-2 and fifth place. A bitter loss indeed.

Top 4 was Junk Rites vs Jund (final winner), and
Gruul Sligh vs Bant Auras (second place). The second game of the Junk Rites vs Jund match was one of the grindiest games I'm ever seen. Thragtusk upon Thragtusk, and Restoration Angels and stuff. Urgh, it really showed why I'm so looking forward to the autumn rotation...

I felt the maindeck was ok. I didn't really miss the Firefist Strikers, but perhaps Pillars maindeck instead of Ash Zealots would have been better. Sideboard could have been better against my matchups. I really noticed it in the mirror match, where he had an extra VS and Mortars. I sided perhaps badly in that match as well, didn't try the Guiles at all. Flames of the Firebrand did me no good. Based on this, I would've like this SB instead in my matches:

[deck]
SB
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Pyreheart Wolf
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Volcanic Strength
[/deck]

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:14 pm

So, I was heading to this tournament with my non-playing girlfriend and a friend of mine.
He should have picked us up with his car but got stuck, so we just decided to get to the place by bike, barely getting there on time and asking from some extra time to let my fella get there.

First round - Jund
G1: I'm on the play keep a not really explosive hand - no 1 drop, BTE + Boar, 2 Reckoners, 3 lands.
I manage to keep up the pressure quite well, but 2 tusks and a huntmaster keep him alive. At the end of the game I decide to close the game swinging with an Hellrider + double Reckoner, getting him down to 3 while I'm at 15 and holding a Searing Spear as my last card, with a single mana open.
On the following turn he strikes back with a Tusk and a wolf token, Rakdos Returning me for 8.
G2: Cackler into BTE+Mauler, he tries to stabilize with a Vampire Nighthawk into Huntmaster that get promptly shot down, also because the ammo
to remove them are the only cards I can play, because... you know... keeping a hand with a Pyreheart Wolf while drawing Hellrider, Hellrider, Wolf can be embarassing at times.
He goes Tusk into Olivia Voldaren and I'm done.

0-1

Second round - All-in green
He's my friend that tries to play a deck full of Pit Fight-like cards, growths and things like Young Wolf, Strangleroot Geist, Pretator Ooze, Rancors... in the first game he had lost 2-1 by a guy playing Bant Auras*.
All in all, I know his deck too well to fear him, while he knows that I can race him far too well, so he just lost in his head when learning he was paired with me.

G1: I'm on the play and start with Noble, he plays Young Wolf, I pillar it and swing, he plays Strangleroot Geist, I go BTE into Boar and just swarm him.
G2: I board in all the removals I got because I know he suffers from shortage of creatures. Easy one.

1-1

Third round - 4 colors random humans
G1: I was on the play and started with a Stromkirk Noble, he
played Cavern saying "humans" and dropped a Champion of the Parish, I swinged then kept my mana open to spear it and he went Temple Garden into BTE + Mauler, I replied with a Reckoner and he played... Kessig Malcontents.
"What?"
Next turn I swing with the Noble, he doesn't swing back, I swing again and he blinks Malcontents with Cloudshift, repeats the proces via Snapcaster + Cloudshift.
I've got to say was AMUSED.
Then proceded to beat the shit out of him.
G2: I keep a 2-lander (mountain + crag) without a 1 drop, but BTE, double Rampager and double VS.
He starts with a tapped shockland, I draw a Temple Garden, he plays an untapped Steam Vents, I draw an Hellrider while thinking of playing BTE + VS, but that untapped shockland stinked way too much, so I just pass and he casts Izzet Charm on the end of turn.
T3 he plays FARSEEK, I draw LM and immediately swing with him+BTE.
He then plays LAVINIA and... I think things went really awkward. I played double VS (one per creature), he
answered with BTE+LM+Attacking Lavinia then passed, he cloudshifted Lavinia in order to prevent me from attacking, I played a fresly drawn Stromkirk Noble in order to chumpblock.
He draws and passes, I attack with everything + double bloodrush from Rampager for 17 and game's over.

2-1

Fourth round - ???
We just realize that a draw sends us both to the top 8, so we agree on taking a break instead of playing.

Top 8 - UWR Control
Now, things get interesting.
He mulligans to 5, I'm on the play and go Noble into BTE + LM, he shocks himself to play Augur revealing Syncopate, I bloodrush a Rampager right through it saving my Mauler from certain death.
On T3 he misses his land drop.
I play Boar and strike with everything, he Azorius charms it and proceeds into missing another land drop, then scoops.

I proceed to board in Hounds, Wolves and Skullcracks... but something's wrong.
WHERE ARE MY SKULLCRACKS?
Now, this took me quite a while during to realize during the sideboarding process because
everything seemed fine on the spot, but I just DIDN'T BRING ANY SKULLCRACK.
Go check the post above - the sideboard there features 18 cards. I just prepared a 15 cards sideboard without Skullcracks at all.
From this moment on, the confusion kicked in and I never managed to recover.

G2: he mulls to 5, I keep a 3 lander and get manamanaflooded, he manages to see 3 Azorius Charms, 2 Snapcasters, 2 Sphincter's Revelations and managed to stay alive long enough to drain all my resources.
G3: He keeps a bad hand, I just decide to go all-in and take out wolves, 2 temple gardens and hellriders and risk getting 2-1'd with VS.
I rape him and that's enough.

Top 4 - UWR Control
G1: I'm on the draw, I play Cackler, he plays Augur of Bolas, I play BTE+BTE+LM and strike with Cackler + paired BTE, he plays a tapped shockland, I attack with everything knowing I could bloodrush the Mauler, THEN realize that he has the mana for an Azorius Charm and understand I'm just a major idiot. I
restrain myself from trying to save the Mauler just to have him bounced back before the damage step, and proceed to play a Reckoner. THEN I REALLY realize I'm the king of all idiots, and he Verdicts the shit out of me.
G2: I realize I'm on full tilt and ask my opponent a couple of spare minutes, because I REALLY needed to breathe some fresh air.
After coming back I spend a shitload of time on thinking how to sideboard, as the all-in plan of the previous game worked too well to be true.
I start with Stromkirk Noble, he plays land, I strike then play LM, he plays Augur, I play Pyreheart Wolf and strike for 5, he topdecks an Oblivion Ring and exiles said wolf, I play Reckoner, bind him to LM and strike with him and the 3/3 Noble, he blocks the Noble and takes 3, he Verdicts, I draw a Pillar of Flame and freeze.
I had no reason to keep pillars in the deck, so I check the sideboard cards and realize something has gone HORRIBLY WRONG, as my sideboard counts only 11 cards.

I scoop and explain him what
happened, he tells me he's sorry and that he had already realized I couldn't possibly be really playing like that.
Now I'll just try to have a good saturday night and tomorrow or on monday I'll add my impressions on the deck, but I'm quite annoyed with how things turned out.

* I was SERIOUSLY confident that nobody would play that. The guy who end up winning -the one I faced on the last game- told me that here in northern Italy there are a bunch of guys playing it, I was just convinced otherwise because nobody IN MY CITY played that.
NVM.

Link · Postby **Link** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:13 pm

R1 vs. Jund

R2 vs. Mono Red

R3 vs. Jund

R4 vs. UWr Control

R5 vs. Junk Aristocrats

G1 took an
entire 30mins, holy shit. Rancor ALMOST got there, if I didn't have rancor I wouldn't have ahd a chance. His draws were just too good, he had two lingering souls, blood artist, cartel aristocrat, garruk relentless, gavony township. The township engine got online after blood artist equalized our health bars, and I couldn't fight through it. I topdecked a hellrider WAY too late.

I decide to throw in the pillar, the hellrider, and take out 3 LMs. and a KWR. I just go fast this game and hellrider gets there.

G3. Now I throw in hounds, KWr, Blast acts, full burn mode. take out the nobles and LM.

This game goes long, and I mismanage my hound. I could've speared a deathrite and bloodrushed a hound, but I had just topdecked a hellrider and did that with 4 mana instead. He puts cartel in front of hound and exiles it with DRS when it dies, I feel retarded, but bloodrushing hellrider adn two more attack steps later, I get him. This is also due to RETARDED fluke misplays like him. he tried to
abrupt decay a hellrider... I didn't let him take it back cause Promo cacklers on the line bro. Next time he gavonyd, THEN sacc'd his young wolf. I said it doesn't cmoe back bro sorry.

Finally attack step comes down to me with hellrider, reckoner, cackler, swinging into his naked 3/3 (gavony out again ofc) Cartel aristocrat. He ahd a tragic slip too. if he hadn't fucked up and the wolf still, I'd be done for. I was hoping for Blast act since I had reckoner, but iunno if thats the plan I want to be on in the future? With hounds/reckoner out it'd be pretty good to be fair...

This MU feels hard but the rancor's felt a lot better than the madcap skills last time I played this MU[/deck]

R6 vs. Bant Control

Ninja: report snowball

Link · Postby **Link** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:13 am

This is the slightly transformational list I'll be testing now, with the numbers cleaned up a bit:

[deck]11 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Temple Garden
4 Searing Spear
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Hellrider
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Rancor

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Ranger's Guile
SB: 3 Hound of Griselbrand
SB: 4 Volcanic Strength
SB: 2 Gruul War Chant
SB: 3 Pillar of Flame[/deck]

2 War Chants could always just become fog if the mirrors that much of a problem of if bant hexproof comes back in a big way in M14. I just can't fit in everything I want with MB pillars, I have to make cuts somewhere. I want the 4 LM I want 21 land, and I want 4 hellriders in the list. so pillars or rancors have to go, depending on what I want to be tuned for, and right now Jund/UWr are more of a concern for me than R/g players who are
still mostly new to the deck and inexperienced with it.

Took out KWr because... well there just wasn't room for it. Also having a SB plan that plans on "flooding out" seemed silly to me, so I just went up to the 21 land MB to support the hellriders and hounds.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:00 am

Loggin' on just to add a few things:
- You (Fate) asked me if I was more an all-in red player or a controlling-midrangey one.
I feel like the question is actually interesting, in fact at one time I questioned the way I was sideboarding, because I often ended up removing my T1 plays in order to add more valuable plays - but skipping T1 to play T2 BTE + something is not *that* different from playing T1 Cackler into T2 something, so I realized that I probably don't play this deck the proper way.
Maybe I'm more of a Dos Rakis player.
- Today I was one of the four Gruul Aggro players - one of them was playing Vexing Devil, one had Ash Zealots, one played 20 lands, 4x Pillar of Flame, 3 Hellriders and 2 Rubblebelt Maakas. He top 4'ed like me, and TBH I was REALLY interested in his deck because the guy did quite well even at the San Diego pro tour, but I really don't know what to think of his deck.
His sideboard featured
Elecktrickeries, Skullcracks, TBloods and VS - I don't recall if he was playing anything else.

Link · Postby **Link** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:24 am

I believe that cacklers are probably sided out way more than is appropriate these days.

I started writing some paragraphs, but I think its time for another article:

Pro-active vs. Reactive sideboarding plans.

Find it in a R/x subforum near you today!

Link · Postby **Link** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:59 am

Play of the night!

Naya midrange is racing me, beating me down with his smiter.

He selesnya charms to make a knight and block my Bte+LM combo with his pilgrim and night, I spear the pilgrim before damage to save my lm.

he swings with just smiter and plays a lone reckoner with First strike mana up.

Topdeck, BTE!

BTE with LM, soul bound, use floating mana to tap out for gruul war chant. Swing for 10 unblockable.

Bte never a bad topdeck with Maulers around ;D

Unflinching courage and domri is brutal as fuck though so... Yeah there's merit in having mortars/skullcrack/fog for sure sometimes.

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:16 am

This is the slightly transformational list I'll be testing now, with the numbers cleaned up a bit:

[deck]11 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Temple Garden
4 Searing Spear
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Hellrider
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Rancor

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Ranger's Guile
SB: 3 Hound of Griselbrand
SB: 4 Volcanic Strength
SB: 2 Gruul War Chant
SB: 3 Pillar of Flame[/deck]

2 War Chants could always just become fog if the mirrors that much of a problem of if bant hexproof comes back in a big way in M14. I just can't fit in everything I want with MB pillars, I have to make cuts somewhere. I want the 4 LM I want 21 land, and I want 4 hellriders in the
list. so pillars or rancors have to go, depending on what I want to be tuned for, and right now Jund/UWr are more of a concern for me than R/g players who are still mostly new to the deck and inexperienced with it.

Took out KWr because... well there just wasn't room for it. Also having a SB plan that plans on "flooding out" seemed silly to me, so I just went up to the 21 land MB to support the hellriders and hounds.

I certainly get where you're going with this deck. I thought about my deck while playing yesterday, and my card choices both in the maindeck and the sideboard. I would certainly have like a few Rancors maindeck to be able to put some pressure on, and perhaps get a highpowered creature on the defence as well sometimes. I actually considered siding in my VS just for the power/toughness boost. Madcap Skills is good, but you get Rancor back so I think I like that better. Hounds would have been so great yesterday as well, and that fourth Hellrider. Pyreheart Wolf was
great for me, but sometimes you just want the effect right now, not next turn. So Gruul War Chant might be the better choice, I'm just worried about the 4cc?

I started thinking yesterday that a ragehammer variant would have been better to take to the tournament, but this version is somewhere in between. You still have the nutdraw options, but gain a few more late game options.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:01 pm

I actually liked Gruul War Chant when I played in sealed, but it does lack a body - a non LM paired Pyreheart Wolf is really slow, but offers two bodies.

Link · Postby **Link** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:08 pm

I was having success with a transformational sb for the longest time, but dropped it because I was just disheartened by the lack of hounds in any decklist anywhere.

They are serious business though. Plus "transformational" cards have appeared in SBs lately (hellkites in the GP Miami list, hell-hellkites in Saito's original 20-land list that no one took seriously), but I don't want to play more land to support them. Plus that list dropped LM which gets rid of the G1s I just flat out steal (and G3s against certain archetypes where you can just go back to MB mode). Hounds not only play awesome with LM they don't require that 5th land drop.

Pyreheart's body is nice to chump for some races, but the +1/0 is really good making boars and even hellriders take out resto angels and cacklers punch through thragtusks. And if they have to double block with wolf and huntmaster? Huehue. The 4 mana hasn't been a problem,
especially since I usually only bring it in on the draw where I can hit land drops more fluidly.

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:27 pm

Yeah, I had many Boars killed by flashed in Resto Angels yesterday. The +1 power from War Chant would have been nice to have.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:14 pm

So, I'd like to be on par with you guys but I really lack your experience with the deck.
This won't stop me from actually tire you out with my stupid questions, maybe an out-of-the-box-thinker can bring some fresh air in.

These are a bunch of my random thoughts after taking a little break to recover after saturday's tournament:
- I do feel like I'm having some problems in finding the proper mindset required to play this deck, in fact I often find myself really unsure as to whether I should try to go for the kill or calm down and try to control the flow of the game;
- I really, really, REALLY do miss Stonewrights and maindeck Pyreheart Wolves, yet I really like Reckoners;
- no, I didn't really miss Ash Zealots as much as I had thought, and I've got to say that I'm REALLY happy to see Boars take GHCs' place in the deck;
- I've NEVER felt the urge to board in Zealous Conscripts.

There were 4 Gruul Aggro builds,
and while I'm absolutely sure that the list I was running was the best I could come up with, I've discussed the differences between my list and the others in order to understand how to tune it out; this is what I found out:
- I was the only guy playing 22 lands with 4 Hellraiders every other build featured, every single other player had 20 lands and no more than 3 raiders;
- one of them was also playing Vexing Devils (I didn't check how many of them, though) because "I want to win before giving my opponent the chance to stabilize, so I really hate missing my 1 drop and the Devils burn for 4. They also chain from BTE and against control I seldomly end up using them to read my opponent's hand: if he doesn't burn himself, I know I'm walking into a Verdict"; he went 2-2-0 and missed the top 8 after losing, I think, from another Gruul and the Jund guy who had beaten me on the first round;
- there was this other who played a build featuring Ash Zealot; I've asked her boyfriend (who got into Top
8 with a Naya Midrange) why they took such a choice -in fact I KNOW 'em enough to be sure that he is the one brewing the decks- and he answered that he finds Ash Zealot very strong in the mirror, and that he expected a lot of Gruul Aggro for the day;
- the other guy, who managed to Top 4 like me, was playing 4x of Pillars ("you just NEED to exile Young Wolves, Geists, Varolz, Voices and the such, how can you NOT play a full set of Pillars?") and 2 Rubblebelt Maakas ("Sometimes you need to push the damage through, consider them Rampager #5 and #6").

Now too tired. Gonna continue after sleepping.

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:56 pm

So, I'd like to be on par with you guys but I really lack your experience with the deck.

Let me tell you a secret: I only pretend to know what I'm doing...

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:04 pm

Btw, the Gruul deck I lost to in round 4, that went 5-0 but lost in the semifinals was pretty close to Christoffer Larsen's Top 8 deck from GP Miami. He had Firefist Strikers instead of Madcap Skills. I think the sideboard was nearly the same, at least it was very similar. So, something like this:

[deck]
Lands
12 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden

Creatures
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Stromkirk Noble
3 Firefist Striker

Spells
4 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard
2 Blasphemous Act
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Skullcrack
1 Domri Rade
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
[/deck]

The sideboard could have been this as well:

[deck]SB
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Volcanic Strength
4 Skullcrack
1 Domri Rade
2 Thundermaw Hellkite[/deck]

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:46 am

Soooo....skylasher as sideboard tech vs. blue decks? Thoughts?

Link · Postby **Link** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:20 am

he's pretty narrow I think. Hound is gonna be more resillient and does more dps

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:50 pm

So, going back to my previous post, these are the questions that bug me:

1) Using VD is actually too risky for the good old rule that it just does the opposite of what you want it to, yet including some more 1 drops could be useful.
I guess Stonewrights could be good in a list running more lands, but since the point of Gruul Aggro is to ride BTE chains into early board presence, Legion Loyalist could be better - I'd avoid playing 4 of them, but 2 or 3 COULD be nice.

2) I'm really addicted to the "Pyreheart effect", but I realize Wolves can be too slow for this deck. On the other hand, Gruul War Chant needs a fourth, GREEN mana, which slows the curve down. I'd want to play it WITH Hellriders, rather than choosing between running one of the two - in fact I really feel like that running 3 raiders with 2 chants can be feasible, but I'd feel dirty in running less than 22 lands and it could still lead to clunky
hands. Also, I'd never want to find 2 War Chants, that Orcish Oriflamme effect isn't worth four mana.

3) I still think that running Maakas is plain overkill, yet Pyrewild Shaman with its potential recursion could be played as pseudo #5 and #6 Rampagers while still providing some added value, as he can be retrieved from the cemetary.

I'd like to have some feedback, as I don't think I'm bringing to the table anything new :d

Link · Postby **Link** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:19 am

against the decks I want the effect against, reckoner into warchant into hellrider is usually pretty fine. Especially if you've burn them down to 1-dude or have 1 n 2-drops of youre own into the 5th turn hellrider. Its not ideal, but this is mostly for having a chance against midrange on the draw, where its going to be a bit more grindy anyway

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:23 am

Soooo....skylasher as sideboard tech vs. blue decks? Thoughts?

Seems really bad. Delver isn't really a card right now, and good luck ambushing a Geist before it has a billion enchantments. Tech vs azorious charm? Uwr will just shoot it down with a billion removal spells and esper will force you to sac it Or wrath It away.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:28 am

against the decks I want the effect against, reckoner into warchant into hellrider is usually pretty fine. Especially if you've burn them down to 1-dude or have 1 n 2-drops of youre own into the 5th turn hellrider. Its not ideal, but this is mostly for having a chance against midrange on the draw, where its going to be a bit more grindy anyway

So, your idea consists in keeping it in our sideboard, right?
Are we talking of a 20 land + 3 Hellriders build or a more midrangey 22 lands build?

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:14 pm

wow, a LOT has gone on in this thread since I last posted. Congrats to all who posted good tourney results, and thanks to all for the write-ups, whether positive or not. All very informative!

Here are some thoughts from me, for whatever they're worth (maybe not much):

1. Madcap Skills > Firefist Striker. It turns your Stromkirk into an attacking 4/1 that can only be blocked by 2 creatures or your cackler into a 5/2 with the same effect. Casting this onto your 1-drop off a BTE chain is extremely more effective in the damage race than Firefist.

2. If you're running Madcap MB, don't run Volcanic Strength SB. Your opponent will side into more removal to 2-for-1 you. You'll likely side out the Madcaps to reduce that possibility. Don't bring in another enchantment.

3. Ranger's Guile is a blowout card. It just steals wins when cast at the appropriate time. I side out 3x Madcap and side in 3x Guile,
knowing that they're bringing in more removal to try to 2-for-1 me. Now I'm protected and while I'm not punching as hard, I'm not losing my dudes.

4. I really like what RDW said about if you're running N 4-drops, then run 18+N land. GCR does not count as a 4-drop for me with this. My current list runs 3x Hellrider and 21 land. But I also have War Chant in the side, another 4-drop.

5. I'm sticking with Domri for now. I understand that people are teching against him because of Naya, but we need to keep drawing threats against control and we need to push through Azo Charm. Admittedly Ranger's Guile is great against Azo also.

6. I'm tired of siding out Cacklers. I feel like I've been siding far too reactively, but this deck NEEDS to stay aggressive. I'm fine siding out Madcap for Guile. That makes sense. But I need to find a new card to take out to bring in my others - extra Pillars, Skullcrack, Domri, War Chant. Reckoner maybe, depending on matchup, and maybe Lightning Mauler
because 2/1 is weak, but again, depending on matchup. Will continue to think about it.

7. I like the idea of Domri against the mirror. I like it a lot. And not just for the -2. If you bring in more burn you can aggressively trade in combat and burn their guys, then draw into a greater threat density than them via Domri. Haven't tested this much but like it in theory.

8. Someone asked about the B/g Control matchup. The biggest trick against B/g Control is to play smart around Mutilate. Just because they drop a Geralf's Messenger or a Desecration Demon or Thragtusk doesn't mean they won't mutilate. In fact they're probably actively trying to trick that the won't to entice you to overextend.

Link · Postby **Link** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:14 pm

Sideboard. this is where I'm at now, trying to streamline the MB as fast as possible (I think pillars can be faster than hellriders strangely) and make the SB as powerful and flexible as possible.

[deck]
20 Lands
10 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden

30 Creatures
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Hellrider
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler

10 Spells
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Rancor
4 Searing Spear

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Ranger's Guile
SB: 4 Volcanic Strength
SB: 2 Hellrider
SB: 2 Hound of Griselbrand
SB: 2 Gruul War Chant
SB: 2 Flex Spot
[/deck]

Renovated the SB a bit backards ala Travis Woo's advice. Most of these are FOR ON THE DRAW. On the play less changes are made usually because the MB is more streamlined. On the play I'd probably just move the pillar of flames out for some more relevant spells
depending on the match-up.

What is weak vs. Control?
On the draw, against augurs:
-4 Nobles
-3 Pillar of Flame

So we need 7 slots.
2 Hellrider+2 Hound (from now on referred to as the houndrider package)
+3 Ranger's guile.

Weak vs. Mirror?
-4 Cacklers
-4 Lightning Mauler
-3 Rancor

So 11 slots.

+4 VS
+4 Houndriders
+3 Ranger's guile (experimental. I know when I used to play Rakdos back when I first started vs. werewolves, ranger's guile blew me out multiple times)

Weak vs. non-mountain midrange (Junk rites, Bant midrange)?
-4 Stromkirk on Draw
-4 LMauler

8 slots so:
+4 Houndrider
+2 Gruul Charm
+2 Gruul Warchant

Gruul charm could also be mizzium mortars here, but I'm giving it another try

Weak vs. Mountain midrange (RBW goodstuff, Naya)

-4 rakdos Cackler
-4 Lightning Mauler
-3 Pillar of Flame

11 slots.

+4 VS
+4 Houndrider
+3 Ranger's guile (if removal heavy, which naya can be with o-rings mortars and selesnya charms. RBW is also usually removal
heavy. War chant could be tried here instead or the Mortars if you have them in for blood baron/smiters. Midrange isn't very popular at my shop so mortars would go to waste most games. If against RBW Aristocrats, sub in gruul charm for their lingering souls here)

Weak vs. Junk Aristocrats
-4 Noble
-4 Lightning Mauler

8 slots again, these guys just get no love from me against creatures

+2 Gruul Charm
+2 Hellrider (hound is very bad without rancor here.)
+2 Warchant
+2 Ranger's guile

Weak vs. Jund
-Our entire deck sometimes it feels like.
-Nobles on the draw
-3 Pillar of Flame
-4 Searing Spear (aka the "all in no fucks" plan)

11 spots

+4 VS
+4 Houndrider
+3 Guile

Weak Vs. Bant Hexproof
-3 Rancor
+2 Hellrider
+1 Warchant
Not much tech here. Another reason to have Blasphemous acts/fogs over gruul charms in the side? Really depends on what your meta looks like.

Anything look off? I haven't actually cast Gruul charm in a real game yet, so that slot is
subject to change. I want to give it a try again though

Flex spot for meta composition:
Naya blitz, hexproof, and a lot of racing match-ups? Consider fog or Blasphemous act here. Rancor+Hounds will eventually get there if you hit the reset button

Naya Midrange, Jund, Junk rites? Mark of Mutiny/Tblood for that damn unflinching courage bs.

Control, UWr, Esper, bant? I'd probably be ok with 2 domri rades.

Mirror matches? Fog for the lulz, Mortars for the flexibility.

Link · Postby **Link** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:38 pm

madcap skills are pretty house against midrange. I think Naya midrange is more popular online thats why you see a lot more madcap skills online in lists...

Rancor is for a more jund and control heavy meta. It can really be the difference between winning a g1 on the draw or not.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:16 pm

After losing the final round of an 8-man to Bant Hexproof, it might be time to put some Fog and/or Skullcrack in the sideboard. Unflinching Courage and Nearheath Pilgrim are just unfun cards to play against.

That said, Zealous Conscripts has won me a TON of games, usually to steal Olivia Voldaren. Just so much value. Same with Ranger's Guile. Damn good card.

I need to get the game numbers so I can rerun them and stream on Twitch. They really were epic plays.

Pyreheart Bezerra · Postby **Pyreheart Bezerra** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:07 pm

After losing the final round of an 8-man to Bant Hexproof, it might be time to put some Fog and/or Skullcrack in the sideboard. Unflinching Courage and Nearheath Pilgrim are just unfun cards to play against.

That said, Zealous Conscripts has won me a TON of games, usually to steal Olivia Voldaren. Just so much value. Same with Ranger's Guile. Damn good card.

I need to get the game numbers so I can rerun them and stream on Twitch. They really were epic plays.

Id love to see the stream. Let us know!

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:52 pm

Got crushed at a 5k on Sunday. Now that I have had time to reflect, it's whatever. Drew poorly, opponents drew excellently. Had a game vs. UWR where I play two domri's, get no value out of them because my opponent who top'd the event just goes pillar+turn, followed by warleaders helix. I don't think I win that game regardless of what I do.

Did kill a junk rites player on turn 4 from 14 life in one game though. Turn's out mad-cap skills does work. Swing for 7, Ghor-Clan, spear you, GG?

Link · Postby **Link** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:58 pm

last minute testing did show Gruul War Chant to be a bit clunky being 4 cmc. Excuse my greed.

-1 VS
-2 Gruul War Chant

+3 Pyreheart wovles. They can chump, they give a trigger, they can be paired with topdecked LM for big 5 cmc plays they can bridge the gap between two drops and hellrider (aka 3 cmc!)... sorry I doubted you hero wolf.

also moved the pillars to the side and the land +hellriders to the main cause bitch its racin time.

Link · Postby **Link** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:40 am

Not much to report. Beat my good time rival bant hexproof player R1, a baddie RG player r2 (he had a stomping grounds playmat and stuff though, so I tried to educate him. watching him play against UWr who was stumbling on white mana and literally play into every single card the UWr COULD cast made me physically ill)

I was running the 3 rancor MB, 32 dudes, 21 land list. Who needs MB pillars?
Then I played Nuwen in the finals (we were in the 8 man pod sadly, so less chances to playtest). Situation:

Rancor in my hand (which would've been pillar otherwise) I have a 2 2/2 nobles against her 2/2 noble. If I had pillar, I could've had 2 3/3 noblse, but I trampled over it instead. The net damage was the same, I just lost my noble but got the rancor back.

She drops reckoner, and I have a 3/3 noble, boar on board, and boar in hand. I haste out boar and rancor noble, she blocks noble and takes 8 (electing not to double block
with ash zealot and stromkirk against a boar because she can first strike them later I suppose). If it had been a pillar she most likely would've taken 9 and redirected to my stromkirk leaving me with a lone boar and her at 5 life.

With her chumpblocker stonewright, she would've out raced my reckoner by one turn. Thanks to Rancor, Reckoner became an "you're at 5? I win" button. Or as I called him "Mr. Inevitability"

I think what I'm trying to say here is MB rancors give play as well if you're the aggressive racing type. I'd probably feel otherwise if I played against a more voice of resurgence heavy meta (read: pro events with no spending limit players), but Rancor is definitely house for me still.

Hound+VS also won me my two post board games. Shit is unstoppable. Got the GCR combo off, going from being on the defensive and trying to stabilize into "16 you" life swings. I was able to suit it up with VS the next turn for lethal. (VS+GCR Would've been just 1 shy
of lethal. I could've blocked her ash zealot, made it a 3/3 and swung for 18 with the combo but I read her as having a dreadbore or mortars to kill his second life post combat.)

Would've liked to try out more control matches, but hound+guile has always been enough in the past. very happy with the build as is

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:13 pm

Hound + Guile is actually pretty hilarious. In the same game I pulled off a win with Conscripts I pulled off that play. It was glorious.

I have the game numbers written down for the two Conscripts games I want to stream. I just have to port them over to my desktop MTGO file since these games were played on my laptop and I dare not stream from the laptop. I'm moving the rest of my stuff to the new house so I won't have internet to stream until Tuesday.

Link · Postby **Link** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:28 pm

I'm thinking the strongest things we can be doing right now is LM+Rancor for control heavy and Firefist+Pillar for midrange and aggro. making a SB plan around Firefist/LM seems a llittle weak though <__<

I'm actually oddly excited for goblin shortcutter? A firefist with "haste" effect that doesn't require battalion seems good. For now I'm still in pyreheart/hound mode

fireiced · Postby **fireiced** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:07 pm

Would like to thank Fate for discovering the awesomeness of Ranger's Guile and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it is reprinted in m14

Dies to Removal

[Primer] R/g Gruul Sligh

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