[Primer] R/g Gruul Sligh

[Link]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Gruul Race couldn't get there (even though it was well positonoed without the reckoners funny enough)

I scrubbed out in top 8. Against UW control tempo bs. If my:

1. Domri's had been ranger's guile instead I could've had him. He had renounce for my Domri anyway, guile would crushed his tempo plays.
2. I could've double bloodrushed over a resto angel, but instead I just single rushed and played a pyreheart. He untaps, land, hardcast terminus. Fucking didn't even see that play like a fool. If I had double bloodurshed he'd go to 1 life and I'd get him with any topdeck (topdeks were shit, so pyreheart might not have gotten there. especially if he had verdict (he had both) the lone boar and saved terminus for the wolf.)



Thoughts when before I'm done raging:

[deck]SB[/deck]

I'm stickin with this no matter fuckin what next event. I'm hiding my domris in a box while im not looking and not getting attached. Guile is the way to go to keep the pressure on, domri only sometimes adds pressure and can get answered easy. Guile+VS for UWr match-ups is fuckin nuts too.

The reason I ended up going Domri is because I was running my 35 creature LM+Firefist build so I figured he'd be nuts. BUT HES A GODDAMN TRAP.

Fogs were actually freakin good, though I only saw it one out of three mirror matches it was enough the time I did. I ran 3 fogs over 3 cracks because fog is a TRUMP whereas crack is only a trump against turbo fog decks (very low chance, good MU anyway).

Gruul Charms is interesting. I like its versatility, so interested to see your testing with it.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Hey RDW, are you in Phoenix or Tucson? I have been to quite a few AMI's already trying to get in on points right now.

[Platypus]

I've always thought that Gruul Charm has potential. The first mode gets damage through, and the third mode takes care of spirit tokens. And it can be chained from BTE if necessary.

[RDW]

Hey RDW, are you in Phoenix or Tucson? I have been to quite a few AMI's already trying to get in on points right now.

Yeah, I live a few miles from ASU. I've only attended this one AMIQ, and may try another in Phoenix. Are you from Tucson?

Gruul Charm's been nuts in testing on Cockatrice; I love the fact that it opened up two board slots for the Reanimator match-up.

[Lightning_Dolt]

So gruul top 8's GP Miami. I kind of love the list. Reminds me of Khaos Deck Wins. What matches do you think the Thundermaws come in? Also played Domri...lol. Fate, Domri has been stupid good for me, and aas in the GP top 8. Give him another try.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Hey RDW, are you in Phoenix or Tucson? I have been to quite a few AMI's already trying to get in on points right now.

Yeah, I live a few miles from ASU. I've only attended this one AMIQ, and may try another in Phoenix. Are you from Tucson?

Gruul Charm's been nuts in testing on Cockatrice; I love the fact that it opened up two board slots for the Reanimator match-up.

Isn't cockatrice down permanently?

[LP, of the Fires]

May jump on the rangers guile train. Got a 5k next weekend and I feel like crushing UWR decks. I expect the field to be R/x agro, UWR, Jund, and probably reanimator.

[Link]

So gruul top 8's GP Miami. I kind of love the list. Reminds me of Khaos Deck Wins. What matches do you think the Thundermaws come in? Also played Domri...lol. Fate, Domri has been stupid good for me, and aas in the GP top 8. Give him another try.

NEVAAAAAA

Nuwen said it best to me.

Domri's +1 is really only to fuel his -2, which is absurd removal (especailly with reckoners)

He's really at home in a big creature list like Naya, where his -2 gets work out.

We on the other hand are bringing him in against... control? Who don't have creatures to remove with -2? That have answers for planeswalkers? To maybe draw us a card and maybe hopefully ultimate and win? Might as well play a triump of ferocity then.

I rather have Ranger'
s guile every time. Its more of a trump card. It trades with a card in their hand to accelerate out game plan, instead of domri who has the potential to come down, do nothing, get answered, and give them a whole turn in a Mu where pressure is everything.



Also was playtesting with Ranger's guile in gruul ragehammer too... janky hound+rancor+blood rush+ranger's guile (in response to bounce), 18 you? It happened in testing (yaeh it won't happen often but guile and any pump even KWR is nuts).

[Lightning_Dolt]

So gruul top 8's GP Miami. I kind of love the list. Reminds me of Khaos Deck Wins. What matches do you think the Thundermaws come in? Also played Domri...lol. Fate, Domri has been stupid good for me, and aas in the GP top 8. Give him another try.

NEVAAAAAA

Nuwen said it best to me.

Domri's +1 is really only to fuel his -2, which is absurd removal (especailly with reckoners)

He's really at home in a big creature list like Naya, where his -2 gets work out.

We on the other hand are bringing him in against... control? Who don't have creatures to remove with -2? That
have answers for planeswalkers? To maybe draw us a card and maybe hopefully ultimate and win? Might as well play a triump of ferocity then.

I rather have Ranger's guile every time. Its more of a trump card. It trades with a card in their hand to accelerate out game plan, instead of domri who has the potential to come down, do nothing, get answered, and give them a whole turn in a Mu where pressure is everything.



Also was playtesting with Ranger's guile in gruul ragehammer too... janky hound+rancor+blood rush+ranger's guile (in response to bounce), 18 you? It happened in testing (yaeh it won't happen often but guile and any pump even KWR is nuts).

If control doesn't answer him you just win though. I boarded him in against esper, drew like 5 cards made an emblem then continued to draw cards in my last big tournament. It was the only thing that got me through the 8x mainboard sweepers.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm guessing thundermaw comes in vs jund and lingering souls decks? Control maybe?

[LP, of the Fires]

I think Domri is less bad than fate makes it out to be, but with the advent of renounce the guilds appearing in sideboards, he becomes less reliable. That and I'm honest enough to admit that I just want to tilt people by ranger's guiling there azorius charms or trading flinthoof boars with restoration angels.

Domri also happens to be fairly good in the mirror. Though I've never tested it, I've had it played against me and I definitely got crushed by Domri/reckoner. Even something as simple as boar fighting random X/2 seems like good value. NEVER bring him in against reanimator though like some guy did on stream round one. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[Link]

Domri in the mirror is win more... except for those rare ground stall games where you both have some rampagers n shit staring eachother down and no mortars/vs/anything? Haven't really tried it that much. Wouldn't want him to be the last card in my hand with a clear board and facing down some lethal shit though? Maybe on the play he'd be interesting tech, force them to go on offense to take care of him, clear out blockers, etc.

If you have a resolved reckoner and are not forced to immediately block with it/get speared then you're winning most times ;P

Because 5/5 VS Reckoners are no fucking joke.

I mean yeah I'm being extra hard on him vs. control just to make the stance clear, I could be like "yeah well hes ok against control but I dunnooooo if hes where we want to be at right now with our tech." EXAGGERATION IS THE KEY TO ARGUMENTS

[Link]

J_S did you +1 domri beyond his ultimate just to keep him alive after that vs. esper? Or did you mean a 2nd Domri

Hopefully not the former because that's hella fucking risky. One topdecked D-Sphere or planar cleansing or some shti and you're back in the hole. I know its tempting but I always get the emblem if its open, because THEN its gg no questions asked.

[LP, of the Fires]

Good points Fate. I was just mentioning it for discussion as I haven't tried it myself but have been beaten by it before. Something that I am looking forward to trying is act of treason in the mirror on the play(whatever threaten affect of choice that you play). You thought you stabilized with reckoner? TROLOLOL.

[Link]

DONT YOU DARE

STEAL

MY GODDMAN HELLRIDER AGAIN

*rocks back and forth*

[Valdarith]

I will also be going the Ranger's Guile way. I like it's potential, especially now that I'm running a bigger curve and more green sources now.

[LP, of the Fires]

Might switch from blood to mark of mutiny. I think mutiny's better...but foil blood goes so much harder.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I took the risk. I believe he had one card in hand and it was a terminus (had to reveal with Augur) and I had just been whiped and had no cards in hand. Paid off.

[LP, of the Fires]

Tested a new sideboard plan vs. jund. Ready? Minus 8 maindeck removal spells, + 3 mark of mutiny, 3 volcanic strength, 2 rangers guile. Only on the play.

Thoughts? You have to mull a little more aggressively, but this plan actually completely invalidates all of their creatures.

[Link]

sounds a fuckton better than the skullcrack mortars plan ;D

Invalidate one of their removal spells, and get around/steal their blockers. Definitely thumbs up (now gl finding room for 3 marks in the SB, lmk what you cut... Well you MB pillars so its easy for you to experiment /weigheddown)

[LP, of the Fires]

To be fair, the skullcrack mortars plan gives you more play. The kill you plan loses to a lot of stuff, but just...kills people. Overall, I think I like having the threatens in the board as I'm still going to be able to choose either plan.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tested a new sideboard plan vs. jund. Ready? Minus 8 maindeck removal spells, + 3 mark of mutiny, 3 volcanic strength, 2 rangers guile. Only on the play.

Thoughts? You have to mull a little more aggressively, but this plan actually completely invalidates all of their creatures.

I like it in theory. I worry about them sideboarding in more removal and just killing everything then stabilizing via Thragtusk. Someimes they don't have a mountain (they only play about 8 ) and then volcanic isn't unblockable. I think it's better to side enchantments out, but that's just me.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tried out the GP Miami build at MNM tonight. I've got to say, it feels good man. I was late, so started with a loss, but beat R/B burn and U/R goblins (not real decks, but better than just goldfishing) for a 2/1 record. Played a bunch of games vs Junk Lifegain.dec on the side and even that seemed not so bad (I won some). Going to think about it and rry to write a SB plan tommorrow. Critique always appreciated.

[Platypus]

Is going down to 20 lands with 3 Hellriders a good idea? I'm thinking about this for Saturday's GPT:

[deck]Lands (20)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
10 Mountain

Creatures (34)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Firefist Striker
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (6)
4 Searing Spear
2 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard
4 Ash Zealot
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Ranger's Guile
[/deck]

[RDW]

Is going down to 20 lands with 3 Hellriders a good idea? I'm thinking about this for Saturday's GPT:

[deck]Lands (20)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
10 Mountain

Creatures (34)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Firefist Striker
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (6)
4 Searing Spear
2 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard
4 Ash Zealot
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Ranger's Guile
[/deck]

A few rules of thumb that I use: For a deck with N 4-drops, I run 18+N lands; for a deck with M 5-drops, I run 21+M lands. I count 3 Ghor-Clan Rampagers as 1 4-drop and 4 Ghor-Clan Rampagers as 1.5 4-drops. Always err
on the side of too many land; at least you get to play Magic and you can mulligan to get correct land ratios. That being said, I would want to run 23 land with 3 Hellrider and 4 Ghor-Clan Rampager.

[Link]

23 land is way too many for 3 hellriders.


20 land-3 hellriders is good. Yeah I'd err on the side of caution for the 21st, but I can't think of what to cut to make room for it. Obviously outside of cutting the 2 pillars for +1 land +1 Reckoner, but that's my preference ofc ;D

Hopefully Ash Zealot does work against UWr Flash for you. Otherwise I'd rather have Fotf for mirror and lingering souls or something, plus I feel like Naya Blitz is going to make a comeback soon.

[RDW]

23 land is way too many for 3 hellriders.


20 land-3 hellriders is good. Yeah I'd err on the side of caution for the 21st, but I can't think of what to cut to make room for it. Obviously outside of cutting the 2 pillars for +1 land +1 Reckoner, but that's my preference ofc ;D

Hopefully Ash Zealot does work against UWr Flash for you. Otherwise I'd rather have Fotf for mirror and lingering souls or something, plus I feel like Naya Blitz is going to make a comeback soon.

If you count the GCR's as Bloodrush-only cards, then yeah I'd run 21.

[Platypus]

I count GCRs as Bloodrush-cards only, since it's the preferred way to cast them. 21 lands worked well for me with 3 Hellriders, but I wanted to see if I could run 4/4 of Lightning Maulers and Firefist Strikers, and keep the two Pillars maindeck. So I cut one Mountain and a Reckoner. Putting those back in and taking out the Pillars clogs up the sideboard again. I'm a bit uncomfortable with only 20 lands, so maybe I go back to my original plan. If I only knew the local metagame better...

I'm starting to consider the Gruul Ragehammer variants as well...ugh, I'm starting to overthink this when I really don't have the knowledge to do it...

[RDW]

I count GCRs as Bloodrush-cards only, since it's the preferred way to cast them. 21 lands worked well for me with 3 Hellriders, but I wanted to see if I could run 4/4 of Lightning Maulers and Firefist Strikers, and keep the two Pillars maindeck. So I cut one Mountain and a Reckoner. Putting those back in and taking out the Pillars clogs up the sideboard again. I'm a bit uncomfortable with only 20 lands, so maybe I go back to my original plan. If I only knew the local metagame better...

I'm starting to consider the Gruul Ragehammer variants as well...ugh, I'm starting to overthink this when I really don't have the knowledge to do it...

Haha, I always go in to FNM with like 3-5 decks that I could play. I only play once a week and I read on here
and MTGS during the weekdays and just find so many cool ideas; no time to test them though... I'd stick with 21 lands, then. It gives you the best chance of 2/3 lands in the opener, and that's exactly where you want to be.

[Platypus]

Yet another one. The first card I considered siding out last time I played was always the Firefist Strikers, so I thought about dropping two of them completely in order to free up some SB space. And I threw out the Volcanic Strengths for some FotFs.

[deck]Lands (21)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
11 Mountain

Creatures (35)
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
2 Firefist Striker
2 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells (4)
4 Searing Spear

Sideboard
2 Ash Zealot
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Ranger's Guile
[/deck]

[Link]

i really don't want to cut pyreheart wolf... but I do want to make room for more gruul charms.

(let me playtest with them first):

[deck]SB[/deck]

I need to see if Gruul War Chant performs well as a 2x. -1 Fog, -3 Wolves +2 Gruul Charm +2 Gruul War Chant. GETTIN MORE GRUUL UP IN DIS SB. I'm thinking on the draw its easy enough to hit 4 mana against junk rites n friends? It also doesn't get terminus'd which is nice for bant control.

Pyreheart's just been underwhelming me lately, and its sad. Its not that he's not good, he's still the go to *** you junk rites and get around things, but he's less versatile than Charm (which works immediately) and War Chant has pseudo haste as well.

The theory is since curving out is less important on the draw (and you can still curve reckoner into war chant or hasted boar
into war chant etc.), that pyreheart being 3 mana isn't relevant. It also can be abrupt decayed then bonfired by jund, so even though they 2-1 themselves if they 2-1 you with a bonfire or something its all the same. I'm thinkin Warchant pseudo haste gives it more play, also the +1 anthem

Warchant for:
Junk Rites
Jund
Bant Control
Possibly Naya Midrange

As for Gruul Charm, it works double duty against aristocrat's lingering souls and ground stalls. as well as a way to get in an alpha against creature based defenses:

Charm for:
Lingering Souls
Junk Rites
Naya Midrange/Reckoner decks
Aristocrats
NOT Jund (I don't think its worth it in a battle of attrtion. You're not ever going to have that many threats stick to make use of the ground falter, and I don't think the one in a 100th way to get your dude back from olivia is going to matter. Killing her and Vampire nighthawk is nice I suppose, but I think its too situational there),

[Link]

War Chant is testing p. well. Blocking a 4/3 reckoner is even more of a nightmare ;D

My self-hate for running fog is kicking in though, I might have to go back to skull crack or +1 guile +1 VS....
hmm. Could just be mortars for the mirror cause I need somethin for the mirror if its gonna be as popular as it has been lately.

[Midnight_v]

I wanted to say that since the last time I was posting here I started playing this deck a lot more.

I started with something similar to saito's list and ended up with some of the same siding that you have. I'm not sure where but mostly likely in the kaos deck
wins thread I was saying "I like ranger's guile in the side" and "I'll never take skullcrack out again".

I'm not going to lie though I'm playing a very all in list with a lot of things that I wish for sometimes but the more I play it the more I know WHY I'm playing it and how to play it.

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Stonewright
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Searing Spear
4 Madcap Skills
2 Rancor
3 Pillar of flame

4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
12-14 Mountain

I started at the same list as 18 land gruul... I got unhappy giving up games to
mana so often. It wasn't bad but I wanted better.

My side is equal genius
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortar
2 Hound of Griselbrand
1 Pillar of Flame
2 empty slots (was traitorous blood) (was grull charm too)

My whole goal with this is to put them in a losing situation before they can stabilize.
Then just kill them as they try.

Guile in the side really helps with that so much so that I've been running 4 of them and winning that way because its a play
I want to be doing twice in every match post siding.

I've been wondering though... how has fog been working out for you in the mirror? I have the feeling that its a real thing. . . fog. and if fog works terrifying presence might help the plan some what as well.

Has anyone else went this way? Kind of an allingruul?

[PirateKingAtomsk]

if your going with the all in plan i'd put foundry street denizen in place of the cacklers and dynacharge in place of pillar ramps the hell out of your early game.

[Lightning_Dolt]

3-1 at fnm for second place, in spite of bad match ups. Lost in the finals to B/g Control. I really hate that deck. I feel like I'm out of my funk. Any advice vs B/g Control?

[Platypus]

Is it the one with Desecration Demon and lots of removal? If so, I'd try to be as fast as possible. I've played against a similar deck (one of my mono-black experiments, not as good as the current Bg decks), and the game were I had a fast start I usually won easily. When they stabilize and get Desecration Demon out it gets tougher, but Pyreheart Wolf help a lot to ignore the demon and get damage through. Ranger's Guile might help a bit against the removal?

[Link]

What do you know, ranger's guile does some nice work against them as well.

;D

I'd imagine Warchant wouldn't be bad either ESPECIALLY after they throw down a desecration demon.

Aka exactly what Platypus said I'm bad at reading.


But yeah the B/G control was pretty much created specifically to handle decks like ours, so its definitely not going to be a favroable match-up.

Your hopes:
-They stumble
-They don't find green in time
-They don't get the 5th mana in time for tusks
-They draw slips with no way to activate morbid
-You play around Mutilate perfectly
-They Sign in blood and shock themselves
-Aka they stumble


@Midnight: I like the list. Cutting Reckoners and Hellriders for all in and never trying to find the 4th land, I can appreciate it. 4 madcap 2 rancors seems excessive though, maybe tune those numbers a bit would be my advice?

-1 Madcap
+1 Ghor-Clan Rampager (better for getting through
blockers it just about all situations, imo).


As for Fog, it IS pretty trump as lame as it is. They won't be playing around it in the 2nd game, and be kicking themselves. Since I often just keep land in my hand in the mirrors, its easy to leave up just 1 green after a hellrider, then bluff frustration that you forgot to put a land down pre-combat or something. Since 1 open means not spear, not bloodrush, you can trick them into racing all out and then trump them. Then in game 3 (if you didnt steal 1 bc you suck at dice rolls or something) they WILL play around it and it'll completely fuck up their head. Imagine them siding in skullcracks? Huehuehuehehuheue

It does double duty against Bant Hexproof, stopping their lifegain from unflinching courage and making it easier to race. Also Izzet Blitz from Travis Woo might catch on with Young Pyromancer, who knows.

[Midnight_v]

Also Izzet Blitz from Travis Woo might catch on with Young Pyromancer, who knows.

Yeah that shit's gonna catch on. I fucking hate woo, forum trawling, deck stealing lowlife.... but actually
its not the fact that he's a a hack, it's the fact that this dickshit actually affects the meta wherever I seem to be at.
Him and "turbo fog/pillow fort" is the reason I was like "I'm never taking skull crack out again. I don't wanna lose to that
janky "fuck you r/x.dec"

@Midnight: I like the list. Cutting Reckoners and Hellriders for all in and never trying to find the 4th land, I can appreciate it. 4 madcap 2 rancors seems excessive though, maybe tune those numbers a bit would be my advice?

-1 Madcap
+1 Ghor-Clan Rampager (better for getting through blockers it just about all situations, imo).

Huh. I'll have to give that a whirl.
There are moments when I catch them sans removal and I get in for 10 but I see your point. I'll try to report back.

On "The Rock"... It's my other deck. I've played a couple variants tried splashing white/splashing red.

That deck gets the same plan as jund.
-4 Stromkirk
-1 madcap skills
-3 pillar
-1 Rancor

+2 hound of griselbrand
+4 Rangers guile
+4 skullcrack

And the basic game plan is the same.

They have 6-9 lifegain spells. 4 thrag, 2 Disciple of Bolas, 3 crypt incursion.

If you've been playing R/x for a while you have to approach this match up like how you'd play
agasint bant control earlier in the season.

Place at least 4 or so damage on the board and never over extend. In that case it was sledge hammer and dos rakis and the plan was to go
over them.
Our plan is to go through ....
Counter at least 1 removal spell with a rangers guile, and counter 1 lifegain spell with skullcrack

Or you can nut draw them and win out right.
The main reason I
play gruul over anything else when it comes to agro is because the gave me dark ritual girl to explode with.
So while that plan is good, you can always go Cackler, Bte~some permanent. and win pretty handily.

I do like the feeling that I'm going to control their removal pattern. MadCap or rancor, forces them to spend removal on whatever creature I want
setting them up for other beatdown antics.
Stonewright/GCR/Lightning Mauler etc.

The deck I have the most trouble with is Junk Aristocrats. They're just to resilent.

[Link]

yeah I do miss rancor for removal bait and being able to get an LM unpaired n shit.

If madcap wasn't so powerful or was harder to cast I'd switch back. Might just switch back just bc madcap is a little more weak in a control meta

[Link]

hellrider is probably our best card against junk aristocrats. But if you don't want to up the curve, gruul charm kills theri lingering souls AND/OR gets around their "protection" shit on the ground.

Its about an even match-up with my version, but I'm sure your version can power through. Ash Zealot alone is pretty powerful against most of their stuff