[Primer] Boros Bullies.

[rcwraspy]

Ajani's abilities line up really poorly against Azorius Charm and Supreme Verdict, in my opinion, which makes him pretty unexciting.

I'll give it some thought. You could just have Hound of Griselbrand, who is wrath proof and combines nicely with Slayer's Stronghold. Still has the unfortunate weakness to
Azorius Charm though.

I'm not really trying to dodge wraths as much as I am trying to find things that control doesn't have answers for. Azorious Charm is only good for so long, and Ajani can just sit there and become an increasingly scary threat to them. If they're just Azorious Charming my Restoration Angels, chances are they aren't doing much to stop Ajani, so you can just build towards an ult and try and get a win that way.

If I was playing a control deck against a deck like mine, I'd probably board out my wraths, so I can see Ajani ult actually just winning you a game.

I'm going to be testing the list with 2x Assemble the Legion in the side for the control matchups - that may be what you're looking for.

I'm not big on Assemble the Legion, although I've kind of wanted to play it with Sublime Archangel for a while now.

haha that's disgusting. 3rd Turn Assemble
and Archangel are out, swing with Resto Angel - exalted triggers x8 (or more depending on your board)? gg

[Alex]

Sublime Archangel is still a very good card.

[Link]

wow she's only 4 mana. She has some anti-synergy with Hellrider in your deck though?

[Alex]

wow she's only 4 mana. She has some anti-synergy with Hellrider in your deck though?

Yes and no. You'd play her as basically "Hellrider #5 and 6."

I like Instigator Gang for the same reason, however Instigator Gang might just be more insane against control because if he flips it's basically GG. An 8/5 with Trample is no freaking joke, especially if he's hanging out with Stonewright or you have Slayers' Stronghold on board.

[Self Medicated]

Does anyone think you can get away with 23 land in this deck?

[Alex]

There's really no reason to run less land when more land actually does things.

[Self Medicated]

Ok. Point taken, but do you think 3 [card]Slayers' Stronghold[/card] is too many? Should we be running 2 and maybe one more Plains?

[Alex]

Oh god, hell no. Slayers' Stronghold is barely a land, it's a spell. It is one of two cards that I want to draw EVERY single game, the other being Restoration Angel. On 11 white sources I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've had issues with colors.

[rcwraspy]

Out of left field likely shot down question incoming.

Have you considered a small green splash in this? Rancor and GCR would wreak havoc here. Just not necessary and spread the mana too thin?

[Alex]

Isn't worth the real estate.

Instead of shooting you down, I will pose this question: What would you remove? Because I can't imagine anything in this list is something you really want to go without.

[rcwraspy]

Isn't worth the real estate.

Instead of shooting you down, I will pose this question: What would you remove? Because I can't imagine anything in this list is something you really want to go without.

From what I can tell so far the Reckoner/Pilgrim pairing isn't your primary win-con, but gaining infinite or incremental life certainly lets you extend further in the game and put different types of pressure on your opponent. If I were to try to make it faster (although, honestly, krenko's command/midnight haunting and hellrider is damned fast), I'd look at those first.

[Alex]

Isn't worth the real estate.

Instead of shooting you down, I will pose this question: What would you remove? Because I can't imagine anything in this list is something you really want to go without.

From what I can tell so far the Reckoner/Pilgrim pairing isn't your primary win-con, but gaining infinite or incremental life certainly lets you extend further in the game and put different types of pressure on your opponent. If I were to try to make it faster (although, honestly, krenko's command/midnight haunting and hellrider is damned fast), I'd look at those first.

At what
point does a vigilant, 5/3 Boros Reckoner become a slower clock than playing a Rancor? Infinite life is actually just icing on the cake, the real novelty of Boros Reckoner is the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" wall that it puts your opponent up against in the occasions where you don't have an actual evasive dude to get in there for you. Boros Reckoner is in the list to hold down the fort until it doesn't need to anymore.




I'm not sure why you'd be playing my list if you want an aggressive start, there are any number of other decks that are better suited to doing that.

[rcwraspy]

Isn't worth the real estate.

Instead of shooting you down, I will pose this question: What would you remove? Because I can't imagine anything in this list is something you really want to go without.

From what I can tell so far the Reckoner/Pilgrim pairing isn't your primary win-con, but gaining infinite or incremental life certainly lets you extend further in the game and put different types of pressure on your opponent. If I were to try
to make it faster (although, honestly, krenko's command/midnight haunting and hellrider is damned fast), I'd look at those first.

At what point does a vigilant, 5/3 Boros Reckoner become a slower clock than playing a Rancor? Infinite life is actually just icing on the cake, the real novelty of Boros Reckoner is the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" wall that it puts your opponent up against in the occasions where you don't have an actual evasive dude to get in there for you. Boros Reckoner is in the list to hold down the fort until it doesn't need to anymore.




I'm not sure why you'd be playing my list if you want an aggressive start, there are any number of other decks that are better suited to doing that.

I don't know if that point exists and, if it does, where it is. I'm still playing around with your list (it's a blast, by the way).

I'm actually not going to that SCG IQ this Saturday, but I'll likely take this list for a spin
over the weekend at FNMs. Those other explosive start decks you mentioned are what I'm migrating from - I'm getting tired of playing fast things that stall if you're forced into the late game. This list is so appealing because of that, and quite honestly I know that playing it is going to make me a better magic player.

EDIT: I should add that I have a tendency to throw out ideas without fully thinking them through. This was definitely an example of that. Those are 2 cards that I'd use in every deck with creatures if I could, but you're of course right that there certainly isn't the room and they would change it into a different deck style.

[Alex]

Playing a tempo game is what sets apart decent players from really good players, and it's a skill that can't really be taught unless you're really good at math.

[Link]

Any cards that keep your deck alive and stronger from DGM so far?

Or are you really going to make the hop to GW (which seems a helluva lot less tempo as an outlet for yo madcapskillz and more of just a beatdown deck at its finest?)

[Alex]

Unless they print a relevant flying threat this deck still looks to be just as good as it is now. I'd have to see the rest of the spoilers though. Right now I haven't seen anything that inherently makes the meta shift away from where it is now, so there's that to consider.

As for cards that have been spoiled thusfar, (109/166) Renounce the Guilds is actually a really big card for the sideboard since the deck doesn't play any multicolored cards. Wear//Tear also seems like pretty relevant sideboard tech. Right now Hexproof decks are a real problem matchup, and Renounce does a good job at making that matchup a little easier.

[rcwraspy]

with the city shut down still I don't know if there will be FNM tonight, but I've gotten a couple actual games in with this list instead of just goldfishing. I really like the inevitability this deck presents. And I can absolutely see the error of my posts just above. The early turn lifegain really lets you keep a variety of hands and keep a stable presence while waiting to pounce. Even stonewright bound with pilgrim can get silly, and then a Resto bounce can re-bond however you want.

[Self Medicated]

As for cards that have been spoiled thusfar, (109/166) Renounce the Guilds is actually a really big card for the sideboard since the deck doesn't play any multicolored cards. Wear//Tear also seems like pretty relevant sideboard tech. Right now Hexproof decks are a real problem matchup, and Renounce does a good job at making that matchup a little easier.

Well, there is Reckoner and Warleader, but I see your point. Only 5 out of the 75 that are multicolored, so you can play Renounce around them quite easily. Renounce and Wear//Tear will definitely be going in to my SB, but what to take out? I have a feeling that Dynacharge and Volcanic Strength won't be making the cut.

[Alex]

Well, there is Reckoner and Warleader, but I see your point. Only 5 out of the 75 that are multicolored, so you can play Renounce around them quite easily. Renounce and Wear//Tear will definitely be going in to my SB, but what to take out? I have a feeling that Dynacharge and Volcanic Strength won't be making the cut.

I think it really just depends on how the meta evolves. For instance, Rhox Faithmender is a pretty horrid card in any metagame where aggressive strategies are neutered or just generally non-existent. In that same enviornment Volcanic Strength also becomes worse because less aggressive decks is usually synonymous with less Mountains. It's still good against Naya and stuff, where Faithmender is just a worse Thragtusk in that matchup. I'd say "use discretion."

I don't
know how good or not good Dynacharge is. When it's good, it's really really good, but when it's bad...holy shit is it bad. I'll be honest, it is my go-to card when I'm on the draw simply because I'm already removing Stromkirk Nobles and I need to put SOMETHING in that space. If it weren't for that I probably wouldn't be playing it at all, so you're likely right.

[Tharkun]

I ran this last night. I fumbled a bit vs aggro but I destroyed the bant decks and I played and also beat jund midrange. I didn't have Rhox Faithmender(s) though so I couldn't bring him in on game2/3. Overall I did well considering I put the deck together 30 minutes before FNM. I improved as the night went on, my losses were in the first 2 rounds and I won the 3 after that. I like the deck and it does confuse people who play against it. I heard a lot of "oh, that is what you were planing" when I cast midnight haunting or "I didn't see that coming" when I resto'd and blocked. Being able to keep mana open for boros charm is great too and it helped a ton. I won multiple games based on a timely boros charm that I cast instead of my optional midnight haunting. Slayer's stronghold is amazing as well. My opponents hated that card.

I enjoy boros and like the capabilities of this deck.

[Alex]

If you don't have Rhox Faithmenders, give Frostburn Weird a try. He actually does come down sooner, and he has a HUGE ass, so he does a good job at doing what Faithmender does. He's even more annoying for aggro decks to kill than Augur of Bolas.

[Link]

Alex have you tried out hounds vs. control?
That seems to be the match-up you're looking for tech for, and hounds >> Instigator gang >>> Ajani Imo. I'd imagine him+Slayer's stronghold would be the nuts if you could haste him out as a topdeck.

[Tharkun]

My Rhox Faithmender problem was resolved at the game store last night. I traded 2 of the 12 boros reckoners I had for a playset of Faithmenders. All of those pre-releases were good for something.

[Alex]

Alex have you tried out hounds vs. control?
That seems to be the match-up you're looking for tech for, and hounds >> Instigator gang >>> Ajani Imo. I'd imagine him+Slayer's stronghold would be the nuts if you could haste him out as a topdeck.

He has the exact same problem that every other creature has: Azorious Charm. The maindeck is already pretty decent at beating control as long as you mulligan intelligently into a Boros Charm. Azorious Charm is pretty sketchy against Restoration Angel.

[Link]

well you wouldn't ever side out a resto angel against control, but aren't you bleeding them dry of azo charms in the first 4-5 turns?

Its normally the first spell they like to throw down against aggro, in my experience. Its not a card Ive seen control try to "Save" an azo charm or snapcaster+azo charm for unless they've seen it before and its G3 or something

[Alex]

Yeah, but if I were going to play an anti-Charm creature it would almost certainly be more Conscripts.

[rcwraspy]

Yeah, but if I were going to play an anti-Charm creature it would almost certainly be more Conscripts.

After playing with the deck in a fair number of matchups against a number of players so far, I can absolutely see this. Conscripts has been a blow out time and again.

I'm still getting a feel for it, though. But seeing my game improve very quickly.

I had a game against G/R aggro where he took me down to 2. I bled out 3 GCRs from him before I was able to get a lifelinking Resto with slayer's out, stabilized, and gave him a beating. Felt good

[rcwraspy]

Oh and sorry for the double post but I'm finding this deck has a pretty favourable matchup against Jund. That's not something every deck can claim.

[Alex]

Pilgrims are pretty big against Jund, they aren't good at racing lifelink.

[Christen]

DGM doesn't seem to add much to this list. Any thoughts on Legion's Initiative and Warleader's Helix? Helix is IMO the most playable that we could add here.

[Pendulum]

Helix just seems too good against so much of the playfield to not try out, at least. Name a creature or Planeswalker this deck might stall out against and it's got like a 90% chance of having a 4 in the butt.

[rcwraspy]

I think the new overload spell that gives +1/+0 and First Strike can be tested to replace Dynacharge in the side. With 4x Stonewright MB we can forego the extra 1 power and gain First Strike.

Is Riot Control (instant, fog, gain life equal to number creatures opponent controls for 2W) a potential SB card here as well? I think I'd rather hold Midnight Haunting in that spot but something makes me think twice about Riot Control.

[Tharkun]

One of the things I like about this deck is the fear my open mana puts into my opponent. It is quite a bit of fun.

[Self Medicated]

I don't think Riot Control belongs here. I honestly don't see much from DGM that would greatly contribute to this deck.

My list of possibilities from DGM:

Weapon Surge
Legion's Initiative
Warleader's Helix
Wear//Tear

It's a very short list, and it will probably get shorter after actually playing with the cards for a while.

[zemanjaski]

I think Warleader's Helix is about it I am afraid ~ Legion's Initative is fantastic, but this deck doesn't really have enough ways to get value from it IMO.

[Christen]

It can double steal stuff if you have Legion's Initiative, Conscripts, and Angel on play, but it's most likely you have been winning anyway if those two are out already.

Wear // Tear is sideboard material, but we don't have oppressive enchantments or artifacts yet so we don't need it yet.

Weapon Surge is slightly worse than Dynacharge for this deck. Our tokens will want to push those last few points of damage.

[Alex]

Dragon's Maze contributes basically nothing. Even the 4 damamge Lightning Helix doesn't seem that appealing, there are just so many other things you can do with those slots.

Despite that, it looks like Dragon's Maze pretty much just shit on everyone, so basically no current deck had a whole lot to gain from any of the cards in it. I don't see the meta shifting very much in the coming months, and likely won't change until rotation, so this deck promises to play just as well as it does now going forward. There may be a few minor adjustments worth considering, but noting backbreaking.

[rcwraspy]

Weapon Surge is slightly worse than Dynacharge for this deck. Our tokens will want to push those last few points of damage.

Thanks - that's a really good point re: tokens.

[rcwraspy]

One of the things I like about this deck is the fear my open mana puts into my opponent. It is quite a bit of fun.

Wholeheartedly agree. I've taken to sandbagging lands in my hand instead of dropping them on board if I have enough out. Just because they're so afraid of what that card COULD be. And I love the look on their faces when they cast Liliana and make us both discard.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

I'm not sure why you'd be playing my list if you want an aggressive start, there are any number of other decks that are better suited to doing that.

I have been mulling this statement over for quite some time. When I was playing this list I was touting how it could be aggressive and defensive MB. Noble, Krenko, Midnight, Hellrider isn't a bad start.
So why do you have a curve out like that, if you don't want to drop them on curve. I am trying very hard to further my skill as an all around magic player.
I think you have Nobles and the like to put early pressure and force the player to remove these threats to make way for the win-cons. I have always played list with a somewhat predefined curve or line of play. I am drawn to this list because it
didn't look so cut and dry at first glance.

Also Id love to see it in action by someone who knows how to play it. Any streaming or video?