Greatest Idea Mafia *** Game Over ***

[imopen2]

I stand by my logic, but I will concede that I didn't realize/remember that my result would only prove someone isn't mafia.

That being said, witchhunt, why would I block Jaime if I'm scum?

[Dechs Kaison]

I think that's rather obvious, but I'll hold off until WitchHunt answers, since you found it so prudent to ask him.

[Stardust]

Yeah, whatever, I have no problem with people lynching imopen, even if I think he's probably town. The lack of nightkills makes this game really weird in that it doesn't really matter the order that we lynch people as long as we're lynching people that will eventually be lynched. I generally agree with WitchHunt's list of rcw, imopen and Red as the first three, so really it doesn't much matter who we lynch out of that initial pool. Once they're dead, if we haven't won, then we move on to others, probably Azrael. We should mass claim at some point in there and you guys can figure out where you want to slot me in, but this game should be very easy unless we have two aliens hiding out somehow. So long as WitchHunt is last alive, we're probably good.

[rcwraspy]

Counter claiming Jamie doesn't confirm WitchHunt as town. Just as not werewolf.

[Azrael]

Yeah, whatever, I have no problem with people lynching imopen, even if I think he's probably town. The lack of nightkills makes this game really weird in that it doesn't really matter the order that we lynch people as long as we're lynching people that will eventually be lynched. I generally agree with WitchHunt's list of rcw, imopen and Red as the first three, so really it doesn't much matter who we lynch out of that initial pool. Once they're dead, if we haven't won, then we move on to others, probably Azrael. We should mass claim at some point in there and you guys can figure out where you want to slot me in, but this game should be very easy unless we have two aliens hiding out somehow. So long as WitchHunt is last alive, we're probably good.

Hey Dechs. You read my mafia theory article. Do you remember the very last real life example I posted in it? The one where Nai nailed me to the wall?

[Stardust]

Counter claiming Jamie doesn't confirm WitchHunt as town. Just as not werewolf.

He used the Town Cop/Lover card for his alignment. I don't believe he would have used it for his ability, certainly.

[Azrael]

This is the one:

[quote=Nai][quote=Azrael]
YuanTi is more puzzling. There was the suggestion of waiting a day to lynch Annorax, which would have given the town a greater chance to mislynch. There was also his attempt to clear LG, early on. Definitely not as suspicious as either AoK or Kraj, but if we go through both those players without finding scum it's probably him rather than Nai or Lotus.


Analyst wrote:
Read this through for a moment, especially that last sentence. "But if we go through both those players without finding scum it's probably him rather than Nai or Lotus." I'm going to break down this
sentence to make sure everyone gets the gravity of this.

"But if we go through both those players" This doesn't imply anything. It outright says that it is Azrael's opinion that we should lynch either Kraj or AoK, then, failing that, lynch the other one. He's already stated, in this phrase, that he intends to take one of them out, then the other. Town should never make a plan like this. Reactions to various things, new developments, and all the rest change opinions. No one would do this unless they had information no one else has. Speaking of that, I'll be talking of said information later on in this post.

"without finding scum" Another great phrase. This is another one of those lovely statements that someone can make to sound town. Notice, this statement also includes night actions (like night kills and cops) without completely saying it. He also doesn't say 'without killing scum' or 'without lynching scum'. Those would imply that the lynches of AoK or Kraj would show theyre scum upon their deaths. But 'without finding scum' implies that we could reveal scum anywhere, Kraj and AoK are just the stepping stones to pulling that off.

"it's probably him" Almost done, folks, but this is a doozie. Let's look at the game right now. Kraj, AoK, Lotus, YuanTi, Azrael, me (Nai). Count em up. 6 people alive right now. One is scum (since 3 starting scum is broken in this game). That's a 5:1 ratio, as I said earlier this game day. Now, after two days and nights, past killing Kraj and AoK, 4 people will have died. That is, unless the doc, if we have one, gets lucky. That ends us with a 1:1 ratio. For those that don't remember Mafia rules, a 1:1 ratio means town loses. This is something I don't believe Azrael would miss. It's an innocent little statement unless you recall the numbers. More than that, though, Azrael ignores YuanTi in his sentence. He names the rest of us, but YuanTi isn't included. I wonder why.

"rather than Nai or Lotus." Now, this is where
things are really interesting. The 'rather' in this sentence implies that Lotus and I are actually valid options at this point, even if it wasn't game over at this point anyways. If he left off the part about us, there would have been a little more innocence here. This isn't the case. We're options at this point, even though he calls at least me townie right now.[/quote]
[/quote]

I was so scum that game. Nai should have had my head on a platter after he posted this, but they let me slip away based on role analysis.

[Azrael]

This is the one:

YuanTi is more puzzling. There was the suggestion of waiting a day to lynch Annorax, which would have given the town a greater chance to mislynch. There was also his attempt to clear LG, early on. Definitely not as suspicious as either AoK or Kraj, but if we go through both those players without finding scum it's probably him rather than Nai or Lotus.


Analyst wrote:
Read this through for a moment, especially that last sentence. "But if we go through both those players without finding scum it's probably him rather than Nai or Lotus." I'm going to break down this
sentence to make sure everyone gets the gravity of this.

"But if we go through both those players" This doesn't imply anything. It outright says that it is Azrael's opinion that we should lynch either Kraj or AoK, then, failing that, lynch the other one. He's already stated, in this phrase, that he intends to take one of them out, then the other. Town should never make a plan like this. Reactions to various things, new developments, and all the rest change opinions. No one would do this unless they had information no one else has. Speaking of that, I'll be talking of said information later on in this post.

"without finding scum" Another great phrase. This is another one of those lovely statements that someone can make to sound town. Notice, this statement also includes night actions (like night kills and cops) without completely saying it. He also doesn't say 'without killing scum' or 'without lynching scum'. Those would imply that the lynches of AoK or Kraj would show theyre scum upon their deaths. But 'without finding scum' implies that we could reveal scum anywhere, Kraj and AoK are just the stepping stones to pulling that off.

"it's probably him" Almost done, folks, but this is a doozie. Let's look at the game right now. Kraj, AoK, Lotus, YuanTi, Azrael, me (Nai). Count em up. 6 people alive right now. One is scum (since 3 starting scum is broken in this game). That's a 5:1 ratio, as I said earlier this game day. Now, after two days and nights, past killing Kraj and AoK, 4 people will have died. That is, unless the doc, if we have one, gets lucky. That ends us with a 1:1 ratio. For those that don't remember Mafia rules, a 1:1 ratio means town loses. This is something I don't believe Azrael would miss. It's an innocent little statement unless you recall the numbers. More than that, though, Azrael ignores YuanTi in his sentence. He names the rest of us, but YuanTi isn't included. I wonder why.

"rather than Nai or Lotus." Now, this is where
things are really interesting. The 'rather' in this sentence implies that Lotus and I are actually valid options at this point, even if it wasn't game over at this point anyways. If he left off the part about us, there would have been a little more innocence here. This isn't the case. We're options at this point, even though he calls at least me townie right now.

I was so scum that game. Nai should have had my head on a platter after he posted this, but they let me slip away based on role analysis.

(Fixed)

[Dechs Kaison]

Huh. So why aren't you voting Stardust, then?

[imopen2]

I haven't read your last post Az, but I assume you feel the same discomfort with stardust's post?

1. I'm town but he's okay lynching me
2. He doesn't seem to care at all who is lynched
3. He's not worried about a faction biding their time and winning after we LYNCH SOME FUCKING TOWNIES WTF STARDUST GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME
4. Or do you have your head in the game and your hope is that we just carelessly lynch townies for a few days?

Regardless, the case for lynching me is just stupid.

So I copped the "wrong" person. Oh well, i misunderstood my role. I also blocked Jaime.

How can witchhunt consider me a top scum suspect and yet in the same post say that "we" blocked Jaime? The mindset is not consistent.

How can stardust go from knowing we should lynch RCW, to wanting to lynch the town JOA in just a few posts?...especially when he says he sees my logic. I think there is another faction out there and at least one of these two is in it.

[Stardust]

The reason I don't care is because we probably have only one or two more threats. Either we catch them now or we catch them later, it doesn't really matter. If we don't catch them now, I'll get lynched later. If you lynch me now, you'll catch them later. I'm not delusional enough to think I'll be the one to survive to endgame. WitchHunt was confirmed town. Hopefully he wasn't fool enough to target me. Lynching down the list is all that really matter at this point.

[Azrael]

Vote Stardust.

Lynching Imopen for choosing the wrong cop target is not my idea of a good lynch. I'm not particularly sold on anyone being town at this point except Dechs, IIRC.

[Stardust]

And WitchHunt, surely.

Azrael, I'm confirmed as Black Goo for my abilities. What alignment am I? Does that alignment make sense with what we know of the game so far and what I'm likely to pick? Werewolf Black Goo or Mafia Black Goo sound sweet, and I almost grabbed one of those, but Alien Black Goo? Cult Black Goo? C'mon. I wouldn't stand of chance of winning this game.

I have no idea what you think you're seeing in my lack of caring for who we target, but I'm pretty sure it's null and void when you consider that there is no pressure to actually catch scum. I'm pretty sure half your town reads are null and void for the same reason, as are mine. imopen hasn't been acting like mafia, and his targets don't make sense for mafia, but we already know that there is no mafia and Jamie was the only werewolf. Do imopen's actions make sense for an Alien or a Cultist? Sure, they could. I'm still on rcw since I think there's still a good chance that he's the one and only remaining threat, but if people feel like lynching imopen first, I just don't care. Even if you want to lynch me first, I only care a little bit because then I know you'll be dragging the game on, but it doesn't even hurt our chance of winning since if we mislynch a couple times I'm bound to be lynched eventually. Since there's no nightkill, whether we do it now or later makes no difference.

[rcwraspy]

All we know is there hasn't been a nightkill. Not that there won't be. Grasping at straws maybe but it's possible.

[imopen2]

All we know is there hasn't been a nightkill. Not that there won't be. Grasping at straws maybe but it's possible.

Exactly, and this laissez-faire attitude about lynches is exactly what a faction with one NK is hoping for.

[Dechs Kaison]

Vote Stardust

[WitchHunt]

I stand by my logic, but I will concede that I didn't realize/remember that my result would only prove someone isn't mafia.

That being said, witchhunt, why would I block Jaime if I'm scum?

I never said you were a hard scum tell, I just was going to take another look at you to check for a certain pattern. I had a hunch that you were a Lyncher JoAT with Raspy being your target. Block another scum target, get put into a rough "town" pile. Then you didn't cop the one guy it would've helped for sure put in the clear as it was previously mentioned, especially in a game where I previously pointed out I didn't think a cop was as strong because of the werewolf and alien factions. Going back through the thread you guys were a back and forth, but you were pretty much always on his case. Even when you couldn't vote you pointed out how much you wished you could vote him, day three he was the first person you voted as well. That's not to say he was innocent from the beginning though, while I wanted to view you as a lyncher he did come off scummy as fuck from the get go, so I get your point, I do. It's just been nagging at me.

I'm still trying to get an idea on Red, but he's been on both lynching wagons while still passing off as relatively indifferent.

Raspy's early game came off scummy as fuck to me, but then it seemed to have rounded out later in the game. One can argue that now that's he's town he's trying to get rid of some of that bias, or now that he's mafia he's trying to throw us off his trail, but this whole case is just WIFOM bullshit. We could've cleared him too, that one still drives me nuts.

And seriously, what the fuck is this Dechs?

Vote Stardust

You just made almost the exact same point last page.

i targeted az with the cop because i consider he and stardust to be the two strongest players in this game and i don't want to join a cult via black goo. i like to know some people i can trust,

That's not at all what you did, though. You didn't prove that you could trust Az at all because we were already knew there's not a Mafia killing people. If Az can't be trusted, it's not because he's Mafia. It's because he's a lyncher or a cultist or an Alien or whatever other possibilities are left here. You just wasted your cop ability.

rather than investigate someone we're probably going to lynch no matter what

No. We wouldn't even consider lynching him if you could have cleared him. RCW was 50/50 mafia and the only target your cop ability could have done anything for. Now we have to waste a lynch and possibly even a teammate on the "only logical lynch." You may not have set this up, but you could have done something to stop it. I think you're the one with anti-town motivations here.

Vote Imopen

The only difference being Stardust expressed interest in some of my scum tells? Raspy being one of the most blatant everyone was already planning on lynching?

[Dechs Kaison]

The difference is that I've been interested in a Stardust lynch since day fucking one but no one else seemed on board. Ham told us he was cult; who hasn't? Letting Stardust live was a mistake and now he is showing severe disinterest or anti-town thoughts. "Let's hang a few townies." Stardust is officially on the table now.

Clear statement of intent: Today I will vote for either Imopen or Stardust. Imopen has been on my scumpossible list for a while, but not quite as long as Stardust. My vote is currently on Stardust, but I'll switch to hammer Imopen if you guys would rather lynch him today.

RCW is a known entity. I believe that he's the good guy. If I'm wrong and he is a town threat, he's at least one that cannot kill us.

[RedNihilist]

I'm posting this just because I'm starting to be annoyed by all this doubts that are building towards my person.
I'm dubious between lynching raspy, lynching Stardust and trying something else.

I'm not convinged by raspy as I feel like his self votes are just stunts to gain town cred that should just not work given the fact that he proved to care a bit too much on being given a "fair treatment" (see post 549), but facts tell us that he's either a switched-to-town player or a castrated threat, so the priority of lynching him is probably not at the top.

Lynching Stardust is another low-priority move, as I feel like switching to cult in this game is pretty much suicidial at this point and I seriously hope nobody has been suicidial enough to switch to cult early game.

It's just that I don't feel like lynching either WitchHunt, DK or Imopen.

[Stardust]

All we know is there hasn't been a nightkill. Not that there won't be. Grasping at straws maybe but it's possible.

Meh. If and when we start getting nightkills, I'll reevaluate. No nightkills for three nights with only one block accounted for? Nah. I'll carry on wanting to lynch down my list, but if people want to lynch my number two or number three first, I really don't care.

The difference is that I've been interested in a Stardust lynch since day fucking one but no one else seemed on board. Ham told us he was cult; who hasn't? Letting Stardust live was a mistake and now he is showing severe disinterest or anti-town thoughts. "Let's hang a few townies." Stardust is officially on the table now.

1) That is a severe misquote. Think about what I'm actually saying, what logic I'm actually applying, and restate my position.
2) You haven't been interested. You got off me before anyone else was even on. Since then you've been treating me as progressively townier with every post. I can quote a pile of posts showing this progression. Why are you misrepresenting your history to justify this vote? Why are you justifying this vote by projecting how dangerous my ability will be for the town?
3) I want you to answer that same question I asked Azrael. What alignment am I?

[Azrael]

Went back and read my notes, and remembered that Stardust was responsible for our rush-lynch of yesterday. That's not in-character for him, I think he's just trying to be fancy in a desperate, no-kill scum situation.

Yeah, I think I'm good if we knock him off today. RCW after that, most likely.

Townies: Dechs, Imopen, myself.
Counter-claimed Scum for whatever that's worth: Witch
Null: Red

[Stardust]

Or I'm just being practical in a completely not-deperate, no-kill scum situation.

But whatever, like I said, I barely care if I'm lynched. You guys will go on to lynch a bunch of people and hopefully hit the scum. The coin toss is heavily in our favour either way.

Just please, for the love of god, stop saying that WitchHunt might be town because he counterclaimed scum! Because he counterclaimed scum, you know he used that town card for his alignment!

[Stardust]

My prefered lynch order at this point, for what it's worth.

rcwraspy
Azrael (bumped up thanks to his inability to see this game for what it is, instead clinging to a read that doesn't apply here)
imopen2
Rednihilist
Dechs Kaison
Witchhunt

All that is dependant on claims, of course, which you guys should do sooner rather than later. Take a look at who could have targeted me and might have actually be inclined to do so. I can see Dechs making that mistake, for example.

[WitchHunt]

Or I'm just being practical in a completely not-deperate, no-kill scum situation.

But whatever, like I said, I barely care if I'm lynched. You guys will go on to lynch a bunch of people and hopefully hit the scum. The coin toss is heavily in our favour either way.

Just please, for the love of god, stop saying that WitchHunt might be town because he counterclaimed scum! Because he counterclaimed scum, you know he used that town card for his alignment!

Thank you.

I discarded the ability of said Town card (cop/lover), got the ability of the second card, and then everyone can see I discarded my town conspiracy theorist card.

[RedNihilist]

Now I think that it would be a good time to claim being Lover.
Just for the sake of it.
Is anybody else in love with me?

[RedNihilist]

Motivation: I just reread WitchHunt's choice of shoveling a powerful role for the fear of randomly dying and that ringed a bell.
Before forgetting again I felt like the issue could be faced.

[Dechs Kaison]

Or I'm just being practical in a completely not-deperate, no-kill scum situation.

But whatever, like I said, I barely care if I'm lynched. You guys will go on to lynch a bunch of people and hopefully hit the scum. The coin toss is heavily in our favour either way.

Just please, for the love of god, stop saying that WitchHunt might be town because he counterclaimed scum! Because he counterclaimed scum, you know he used that town card for his alignment!

Thank you.

I discarded the ability of said Town card (cop/lover), got the ability of the second card, and then everyone can see I discarded my town conspiracy theorist card.

Yeah, but you haven't used any abilities that we've observed. That means we're not sure whether you took the Town part or the Cop/Lover part.

Now, I don't know why you'd be a Mafia Cop/Lover, but an Alien Cop/Lover does seem at least almost useful.

[Stardust]

Dechs, answer my questions.

[Dechs Kaison]

I will. I'm at work, you have to forgive little lapses in response time.

[Azrael]

Or I'm just being practical in a completely not-deperate, no-kill scum situation.

But whatever, like I said, I barely care if I'm lynched. You guys will go on to lynch a bunch of people and hopefully hit the scum. The coin toss is heavily in our favour either way.

Just please, for the love of god, stop saying that WitchHunt might be town because he counterclaimed scum! Because he counterclaimed scum, you know he used that town card for his alignment!

Are you arguing that that's what I'm doing? Because there was a clear implication I'm not sold on that idea.

You could make a few weak arguments that it's a play more likely to come from pure town rather than a neutral, but I'm not exactly dying to rule anyone out. I'm also not going to completely forget that it happened while trying to understand his mentality and line of play, though.

[Dechs Kaison]

The difference is that I've been interested in a Stardust lynch since day fucking one but no one else seemed on board. Ham told us he was cult; who hasn't? Letting Stardust live was a mistake and now he is showing severe disinterest or anti-town thoughts. "Let's hang a few townies." Stardust is officially on the table now.

1) That is a severe misquote. Think about what I'm actually saying, what logic I'm actually applying, and restate my position.
2) You haven't been interested. You got off me before anyone else was even on. Since then you've been treating me as progressively townier with every post. I can quote a pile of posts showing this progression. Why are you misrepresenting your history to justify this vote? Why are you justifying this vote by projecting how dangerous my ability will be for the town?
3) I want you to answer that same question I asked Azrael. What alignment am I?

1) It's a severe paraphrasing. Here's your quote:

Yeah, whatever, I have no problem with people lynching imopen, even if I think he's probably town. The lack of nightkills makes this game really weird in that it doesn't really matter the order that we lynch people as long as we're lynching people that will eventually be lynched.

You think Imopen is town but you're ok lynching him. You're willing to lynch townies. That scares me.

2) Where have I been treating you townier? I've always said that your claim never sat right with me. Once we had Ham turn, I knew I could believe the Black Goo half, but that's when I realized you guys could be turning on us hoping for a few mislynches to equal out the town/cult population. Sure, you don't have a quicktopic, but half the town is still half the town. All you'd need to do is lynch a few townies...

3) I don't know, but I'm certainly not convinced it's town. You're not mafia or you'd be killing people. Maybe you chose Cult Black Goo so you could recruit people passively. Maybe you're an Alien and you're just biding your time, lynching one townie at a time until you make the final kill. You could still be a lyncher and that's why you're pushing this strategy that just lynches people who are "eventual lynches." At this point, I'd bet Alien. I know the odds don't look good; we know there were a lot of alien cards used up already.

[Stardust]

Azrael, I'm not saying you're calling WitchHunt town, I'm saying you should call him town. The card he used to counterclaim is the one he used for his alignment. Motivation for the CC doesn't factor in.



Dechs, I'll show your progression later (and grill you for a few other things), but for now I'll settle for proving that I'm town. Put yourself in my shoes when it came time to choose my role. For sake of argument, let's say I'm trying to decide between Alien, Town or Werewolf (the only card that hasn't been proven explicitly here is the alien one - you know I had Town Black Goo and Werewolf whatever it was). Of those, what alignment do you choose to go with the Black Goo? I can't be Alien because I would have chosen Werewolf - it's strictly better.

So the only other nontown option is Cult. Knowing my history in this game of either being night killed early or lynched late, would I choose this alignment to go with my passive ability? If I did, would I claim my passive ability in my first post?

I can't be Alien, I can't be Cult, you're voting me for not caring who we lynch so I can't be Lyncher... Therefore I'm Town.

[imopen2]

The difference is that I've been interested in a Stardust lynch since day fucking one but no one else seemed on board. Ham told us he was cult; who hasn't? Letting Stardust live was a mistake and now he is showing severe disinterest or anti-town thoughts. "Let's hang a few townies." Stardust is officially on the table now.

1) That is a severe misquote. Think about what I'm actually saying, what logic I'm actually applying, and restate my position.
2) You haven't been interested. You got off me before anyone else was even on. Since then you've been treating me as progressively townier with every post. I can quote a pile of posts showing this progression. Why are you misrepresenting your history to justify this vote? Why are you justifying this vote by projecting how dangerous my ability will be for the town?
3) I want you to answer that same question I asked Azrael. What alignment am I?

1) It's a severe paraphrasing. Here's your quote:

Yeah, whatever, I have no problem with people lynching imopen, even if I think he's probably town. The lack of nightkills makes this game really weird in that it doesn't really matter the order that we lynch people as long as we're lynching people that will eventually be lynched.

You think Imopen is town but you're ok lynching him. You're willing to lynch townies. That scares me.

2) Where have I been treating you townier? I've always said that your claim never sat right with me. Once we had Ham turn, I knew I could believe the Black Goo half, but that's when I realized you guys could be turning on us hoping for a few mislynches to equal out the town/cult population. Sure, you don't have a quicktopic, but half the town is still half the town. All you'd need to do is lynch a few townies...

3) I don't know, but I'm certainly not convinced it's town. You're not mafia or you'd be killing people. Maybe you chose Cult Black Goo so you could recruit people passively. Maybe you're an Alien and you're just biding your time, lynching one townie at a time until you make the final kill. You could still be a lyncher and that's why you're pushing this strategy that just lynches people who are "eventual lynches." At this point, I'd bet Alien. I know the odds don't look good; we know there were a lot of alien cards used up already.

okay, dechs is town

[Dechs Kaison]

Azrael, I'm not saying you're calling WitchHunt town, I'm saying you should call him town. The card he used to counterclaim is the one he used for his alignment. Motivation for the CC doesn't factor in.

But we don't know it's the one he used for his alignment. He hasn't demonstrated an ability usage to say he doesn't have the Cop/Lover ability.

Dechs, I'll show your progression later (and grill you for a few other things), but for now I'll settle for proving that I'm town. Put yourself in my shoes when it came time to choose my role. For sake of argument, let's say I'm trying to decide between Alien, Town or Werewolf (the only card that hasn't been proven explicitly here is the alien one - you know I had Town Black Goo and Werewolf whatever it was). Of those, what alignment do you choose to go with the Black Goo? I can't be Alien because I would have chosen Werewolf - it's strictly better.

So the only other nontown option is Cult. Knowing my history in this game of either being night killed early or lynched late, would I choose this alignment to go with my passive ability? If I did, would I claim my passive ability in my first post?

I can't be Alien, I can't be Cult, you're voting me for not caring who we lynch so I can't be Lyncher... Therefore I'm Town.

Alright, alright. Werewolf is strictly better therefor no Alien. Check.
If you were Cult looking to recruit cult, you'd HAVE to claim your ability so people would get the idea that I did early on (target you en masse, win instantly).
You could still be Lyncher because you don't care who we vote as long as we lynch some set of people eventually. You wouldn't want to give away that you have a lynch target. You're pushing a strategy that achieves the lyncher's goal while not exposing the lyncher's intent.

[Dechs Kaison]

okay, dechs is town

Why do you keep saying this? It's the second time I've noticed it and both times it's been after I've made a case for hanging you, then started after someone else.

[Dechs Kaison]

I can't be Alien because I would have chosen Werewolf - it's strictly better.

Thinking about this for way longer than is healthy - This is just WIFOM.

Sure, Werewolf is strictly better mechanically, but for the same reason that I play Jank Ass Clerics in Legacy, you could have chosen Alien. Why do I play Jank Ass Clerics in Legacy? Because it looks fun and no one sees it coming.

[Stardust]

You are the nuts worst. Let's say I pick Alien then, just for the chance to play hard mode. Again, given my tendency to be killed early or lynched late, do I stand a chance of winning? Me rolling SK is the lowest win percentage I could ever achieve. You believe that I chose a similar but strictly worse role? Why?

[Dechs Kaison]

I just said why. Because it looks fun and no one sees it coming.

Plenty of people will choose to handicap themselves physically in order to win mentally. A fantastic example is my dad playing tennis. When he plays, he consistently runs around the backhand. He'll go out of his way and risk missing a return just to avoid his backhand. People pick up on this pretty quickly, and start shooting towards his backhand. Eventually he has to use it. The cool part is that his backhand is his best shot; he can put an ugly spin on the ball and hit it damn hard. The opponent is expecting an easy point, but what they get is blown out of the water.

Hell, look at me. I'm in exactly the same boat you are. If I'm not town, what am I? I'm not killing people so I'm neither Mafia nor Werewolf. I discarded a Mafia card, so I wouldn't have chosen Alien because that's strictly worse. I'm certainly not pushing to lynch a specific person. You've been able to vote every day so we know I haven't targeted you to become Cult. The only other cult card is Cult Recruiter, so I couldn't chose to be Cult AND be able to recruit people.

You can rule out all that stuff, but somehow you're still treating me with suspicion. Why?

Maybe the same reason I'm suspicious of you, except I'm not the one here saying "It doesn't matter who we lynch or in what order because we'll eventually catch the right guy."

[Dechs Kaison]

Also, none of your last post refutes any of these possibilities for you:

If you were Cult looking to recruit cult, you'd HAVE to claim your ability so people would get the idea that I did early on (target you en masse, win instantly).
You could still be Lyncher because you don't care who we vote as long as we lynch some set of people eventually. You wouldn't want to give away that you have a lynch target. You're pushing a strategy that achieves the lyncher's goal while not exposing the lyncher's intent.

[WitchHunt]

Azrael, I'm not saying you're calling WitchHunt town, I'm saying you should call him town. The card he used to counterclaim is the one he used for his alignment. Motivation for the CC doesn't factor in.

But we don't know it's the one he used for his alignment. He hasn't demonstrated an ability usage to say he doesn't have the Cop/Lover ability.

If I was a cop, I'd have used the shit out of that ability by now. I told you why I decided against it, dying as a group didn't sound like a plan to me, and there were more than just Mafia to worry about.

Now I think that it would be a good time to claim being Lover.
Just for the sake of it.
Is anybody else in love with me?

Say there is an Alien faction with one NK, or a faction that has a NK that hasn't been using it, wouldn't claiming be the absolute worse thing the lovers could ever possibly do?