LEGO Movie Mafia - Game Over - Town Win

[Col. Khaddafi]

Because in principle when someone makes a cop claim we go by that imopen2 has a point

[Azrael]

So its likely we have two scum left at this point? 3 scum overall in this game?

With Imopen claiming not to be gambitting, from my perspective, it's the only possible way to explain what's going on here.

Red/Imopen being the strongest candidates by far. *think*

The trick is to figure out how we can generate an extra kill for the town, so that you don't have to take my word over a cop investigation.

One way we could try to do it, is vote a no-lynch for tonight and have the town prepare two vigilante kills with the help of the time-boost invention that Dechs and I were talking about. We'd have Dechs and CK be the builders of the kills, and me and Imopen and red would be put in charge of chrono-boosting them.

Tomorrow, we'd be at either 6 or 5 alive, with 2 scum alive, and two town-controlled day-kills. The tricky thing about that would be the order that the kills go off. We'd have to write the ability so that both kills go off at the same time, and that if one of the kills is roleblocked or protected off or redirected etc., neither kill goes off. Then, you could have both me and Imopen killed off at the same time, then lynch Red for the win.

We'd also have to verify with Stardust that the timing of the chrono-boost would allow the day-vigs to go active by tomorrow morning.

[Dechs Kaison]

Because in principle when someone makes a cop claim we go by that imopen2 has a point

Unfortunately, if Az is right that it's still a team of two scum left, when we lynch Az on imopen's cop claim, we lose immediately when the night kill happens.

[Azrael]

*thinks*

No, that plan is crap. Imopen has already dodged a town-controlled day kill for no good reason. Which means the only way we can safely deal with him is by lynch.

So, you'd need a device that kills me off, simultaneously with Imopen being lynched. That could work.

[imopen2]

I refuse to work with scum, az. Your plan makes no sense and I know you aren't town

[Col. Khaddafi]

Is there a way to lynch/vig both Az and Imopen2 today? does someone have a silver bullet laying ou somewhere?

[Azrael]

I'll ask Stardust if the chrono plan's feasible.

PPE: CK, I'm checking into that now. That's what we need to have happen, kill us both at once, but we need to make sure it's a lynch since Imopen is kill-immune.

[imopen2]

5. I have no idea if scumbag is lying about Viging me or not, but I have no protection ability so it's either a gambit or someone saved me. Not my concern.

Did anyone save Imopen's life at the beginning of day two?

If not, he's a confirmed liar.

This is misleading. There are at least three other explanations.

1. Scumbag is lying
2. The scum have some type of jailing ability or drawback that inadvertently protected me.
3. There is a townie with a protection ability who doesn't feel like exposing themselves to you.

[imopen2]

I am not kill-immune

[Azrael]

tl;dr.
I have imopen as confirmed town.

Vote Azrael

Can you elaborate?

I have checked his sentence, he didn't lie about being town.

Ok, so when Imopen flips scum, you know Red is lying as well. Awesome.

[imopen2]

I would gladly take a vig shot if it means we lynch az. Just don't let this get to another night phase with az alive because he probably has some device or ability that will allow scum to pull this out. No lynh is a terrible option

[Azrael]

5. I have no idea if scumbag is lying about Viging me or not, but I have no protection ability so it's either a gambit or someone saved me. Not my concern.

Did anyone save Imopen's life at the beginning of day two?

If not, he's a confirmed liar.

This is misleading. There are at least three other explanations.

1. Scumbag is lying
2. The scum have some type of jailing ability or drawback that inadvertently protected me.
3. There is a townie with a protection ability who doesn't feel like exposing themselves to you.

1. Is invalid, because you've narrowed the scum possibilities to you and Red, or me.
2. Unlikely enough to not be worth considering. You weren't a good candidate for that type of ability, at all, and if they had one, it wouldn't have protected you during the day.
3. We can discount that, a townie other than Red who steps foward and claims to have protected you would be effectively winning the game for the town by claiming that.

[imopen2]

tl;dr.
I have imopen as confirmed town.

Vote Azrael

Can you elaborate?

I have checked his sentence, he didn't lie about being town.

Ok, so when Imopen flips scum, you know Red is lying as well. Awesome.

Yes, we're both lying. Who was leading the town this whole time? Who used their previous experience to bully us into a mislynch? You've been caught and you're grasping for any crazy theory to save yourself

[imopen2]

5. I have no idea if scumbag is lying about Viging me or not, but I have no protection ability so it's either a gambit or someone saved me. Not my concern.

Did anyone save Imopen's life at the beginning of day two?

If not, he's a confirmed liar.

This is misleading. There are at least three other explanations.

1. Scumbag is lying
2. The scum have some type of jailing ability or drawback that inadvertently protected me.
3. There is a townie with a protection ability who doesn't feel like exposing themselves to you.

1. Is invalid, because you've narrowed the scum possibilities to you and Red, or me.
2. Unlikely enough to not be worth considering. You weren't a good candidate for that type of ability, at all, and if they had one, it wouldn't have protected you during the day.
3. We can discount that, a townie other than Red who steps foward and claims to have protected you would be effectively winning the game for the town by claiming that.

1. WHAA??? Other than you, I have no solid evidence to prove scumbag, LMD, DK, or red are town or scum. There could very well be two more scum, but you are one of them and that's a fact.
2. Yea, cause your theories are so likely
3. Not necessarily since, as you keep claiming, there could be three scum and once you are dead we might need to survive another night/day cycle

[imopen2]

You can't act like 3 scum is possible for your theories and then forget to address that when evaluating my theories. It doesn't follow and it shows a disingenuous perspective

[Azrael]

tl;dr.
I have imopen as confirmed town.

Vote Azrael

Can you elaborate?

I have checked his sentence, he didn't lie about being town.

Ok, so when Imopen flips scum, you know Red is lying as well. Awesome.

Yes, we're both lying. Who was leading the town this whole time? Who used their previous experience to bully us into a mislynch? You've been caught and you're grasping for any crazy theory to save yourself

Not a crazy theory at all. Its just simple logic.

You've claimed I'm scum and Red claims you're town.

I know your lie only makes sense if there's two scum, and I know that you're lying.

So, guess who the last two scum are?

The two of you have effectively proven that either I'm scum, or the two of you are scum, by the statements you've made.

If you're afraid of what I can do in the night, have Red Nihilist chrono-boost you, and you build a roleblock to target me. And then let's see what happpens when we both flip.

[Col. Khaddafi]

Who was leading the town this whole time? Who used their previous experience to bully us into a mislynch? You've been caught and you're grasping for any crazy theory to save yourself

Yeah basically this is the reason I would have voted for Az in a heartbeat after the ham myslynch (It was painfully obvious he was town when I was spectating). The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is that mystery of you not getting vigged by me. I really really hope wwe can smoke both of ou guys today, otherwise this is going to be a painful reread of this thread for everyone.

[imopen2]

I've also still got a cop shot so lynching me is literally the stupidest move we could make. Town wins this game if az is lynched toDay

[Col. Khaddafi]

yeah well we have no evidence of that so that its a fear and loathing tactic

[imopen2]

tl;dr.
I have imopen as confirmed town.

Vote Azrael

Can you elaborate?

I have checked his sentence, he didn't lie about being town.

Ok, so when Imopen flips scum, you know Red is lying as well. Awesome.

Yes, we're both lying. Who was leading the town this whole time? Who used their previous experience to bully us into a mislynch? You've been caught and you're grasping for any crazy theory to save yourself

Not a crazy theory at all. Its just simple logic.

You've claimed I'm scum and Red claims you're town.

I know your lie only makes sense if there's two scum, and I know that you're lying.

So, guess who the last two scum are?

The two of you have effectively proven that either I'm scum, or the two of you are scum, by the statements you've made.

If you're afraid of what I can do in the night, have Red Nihilist chrono-boost you, and you build a roleblock to target me. And then let's see what happpens when we both flip.

Except I'm the one who knows you're lying so you're just pandering to the others. I know that there are many other options and I won't be forgetting.

I've said it already but I'll say it again, I refuse to work with you since you are confirmed scum and have access to information that I don't have. You could have an unblockable ability or any number of other things that ruin a plan like that. Do you really think I'm stupid enough to let my enemy create the plan for his death?

[imopen2]

Also, it doesn't really follow that kpaca had a vig shot since he continued to threaten it despite scumbag claiming it was shot off early in the day. This points to scumbag as the third scum slot, but I don't really care about that, I just need us to lynch az so we can confirm red as town and break this game open

[imopen2]

Eh, I guess that wouldn't quite confirm red since he COULD be bussing but I kinda doubt that

[Azrael]

You can't act like 3 scum is possible for your theories and then forget to address that when evaluating my theories. It doesn't follow and it shows a disingenuous perspective

That's actually a fair critique. You could revise that to say instead, that you've proven that the scum team is either me and CK, who is lying about targeting you with a vig, or it's you and Red.

But you know the best way for townies to figure out who's scum and who isn't in this kind of standoff? By looking for the person who's ready to sacrifice himself, and seeing who's scared to give the town a chance to see both alignments flip.

That's the one scenario you can't allow to happen, because as soon as the town sees you're wrong about me, your entire scum team is toast, game over.

You said that I'm afraid to die afraid to die - I'm not. I'm completely ready to die. The one who's deathly afraid of being killed, is you.

No, you're going down with me, and then the town is going to win by taking out Red too. It's over.

[imopen2]

Did Rez ever say what his invention was? Maybe he protected me

[Azrael]

No, rez was the guy who was com-chatting me.

Stardust just confirmed that we can chrono-boost people tonight, and have their abilities ready to use for tomorrow. A plan that double-lynches both me and Imopen IS feasible.

[imopen2]

I never said you were afraid to die. I know you are pandering. I'm definitely not afraid to die. I'm afraid of letting you get another night phase since there is nothing I can do to stop you during the night and I think the town will lose if we let that happen

[imopen2]

Listen to the cop. Listen to the cop. Listen to the cop.

[imopen2]

You can't act like 3 scum is possible for your theories and then forget to address that when evaluating my theories. It doesn't follow and it shows a disingenuous perspective

That's actually a fair critique. You could revise that to say instead, that you've proven that the scum team is either me and CK, who is lying about targeting you with a vig, or it's you and Red.

But you know the best way for townies to figure out who's scum and who isn't in this kind of standoff? By looking for the person who's ready to sacrifice himself, and seeing who's scared to give the town a chance to see both alignments flip.

That's the one scenario you can't allow to happen, because as soon as the town sees you're wrong about me, your entire scum team is toast, game over.

You said that I'm afraid to die afraid to die - I'm not. I'm completely ready to die. The one who's deathly afraid of being killed, is you.

No, you're going down with me, and then the town is going to win by taking out Red too. It's over.

I would say that scumbag is the top suspect now after you, but it's possible that he's telling the truth and one of the other two options I laid out is true. You keep trying to mislead the town

[Dechs Kaison]

If Imopen is lying, it's only because there's two scum and they'll win with the night kill tonight.

And I have just the invention to prevent that.

Vote Az

If you're town, sorry man. If you're scum, that was an awesome bus of GR. Either way, this is a calculated lynch from my standpoint.

Town wins, GG folks.

[Azrael]

I never said you were afraid to die. I know you are pandering. I'm definitely not afraid to die. I'm afraid of letting you get another night phase since there is nothing I can do to stop you during the night and I think the town will lose if we let that happen

Because I'm going to whip an extra kill out of my pants and make it unable to be roleblocked, too?

Town loses if it ignores that we're in lylo, your alignment is linked to Red, and you've got a magically unexplainable vig kill failure on you.

We both die. I'm open to the town coming up with whatever invention plan assures it of victory. You could have the town build a device that delays mafia victory by a single night/day period, for instance. Then, even if I pulled out a magically unexplainable extra NK that's somehow unblockable, town would STILL have the chance to see both our alignments.

We could even see about rigging the simul-lynch/kill on you to NOT kill you, if you're town and I'm scum, and make that a condition of the plan.

I'm completely open to any variation of this plan that assures the town can investigate my alignment safely while NOT losing instantly to your gambit. I doubt you're willing to say the same.

[Azrael]

If Imopen is lying, it's only because there's two scum and they'll win with the night kill tonight.

And I have just the invention to prevent that.

Vote Az

If you're town, sorry man. If you're scum, that was an awesome bus of GR. Either way, this is a calculated lynch from my standpoint.

Town wins, GG folks.

I'm cool with that. Let's just slow down and coordinate abilities so that we can make sure they don't roleblock you or something stupid.

[imopen2]

I never said you were afraid to die. I know you are pandering. I'm definitely not afraid to die. I'm afraid of letting you get another night phase since there is nothing I can do to stop you during the night and I think the town will lose if we let that happen

Because I'm going to whip an extra kill out of my pants and make it unable to be roleblocked, too?

Town loses if it ignores that we're in lylo, your alignment is linked to Red, and you've got a magically unexplainable vig kill failure on you.

We both die. I'm open to the town coming up with whatever invention plan assures it of victory. You could have the town build a device that delays mafia victory by a single night/day period, for instance. Then, even if I pulled out a magically unexplainable extra NK that's somehow unblockable, town would STILL have the chance to see both our alignments.

We could even see about rigging the simul-lynch/kill on you to NOT kill you, if you're town and I'm scum, and make that a condition of the plan.

I'm completely open to any variation of this plan that assures the town can investigate my alignment safely while NOT losing instantly to your gambit. I doubt you're willing to say the same.

I'm okay with any plan that involves you being lynched toDay since you're confirmed scum. I will gladly accept recommendations for devices I should submit toDay as well. I have only submitted one for review so far

[Azrael]

The only thing that would potentially make this fail is if Imopen has some kind of broad-based immunity/untargetability to all our builder abilities, which was what resulted in the kill on him failing.

The best way around that would be to have the town cooperate in chrono-boosting a couple different effects that don't rely on targeting Imopen. We know from my one-shot bulletproof that they can't make their kills immune, so if we have the town build something that cancels all kills for the night, or delays all kills, if cancelling them altogether is too powerful an ability, or if we have the town build double-votes and a device that prevents the scum from winning tomorrow, then we'll have some insurance if they try to screw with you.

How do those two possibilities sound: the kill-protect/delay or the double-vote and and victory prevention?

I'm happy to submit any of those as plans so that we have an idea how long they'll take to build.

[Mcdonalds]

@imopen: why lynch az, when we can simply have scumbag shoot him?

[Dechs Kaison]

He already said he can't.

[imopen2]

I haven't even finished reading your above post, az, but I'd like to remind the town that we don't "know" anything based on az's claims because he is scum and therefore lying

[imopen2]

@imopen: why lynch az, when we can simply have scumbag shoot him?

Cause he "already used" his shot

[imopen2]

If someone actually has a vig shot I would gladly take it so we can lynch az right after. That would put us at an unnecessary dolls advantage but you guys can't know that so I don't blame you for being safe. I would want to confirm with stardust beforehand that a vig shot wouldn't end the day tho

[Azrael]

*thinks*

Another thought. Both RN and Imopen claimed to come up with the same invention, right? A truth-detector submitted to the mod? Is that right??

Because let's say Dechs is right, and the scum don't have any master-builders. If you were a scum, and you didn't have the ability to demonstrate that you can build things, you'd need to submit only inventions that can't be verified. And you'd need to win before the town could ask you to somehow verify whether or not you're a master builder (or whether you have abilities that you can't account for, like untargetability, *cough Imopen cough*).

Both RN and Imopen have failed to claim whether they've submitted plans for anything else, and they've got absolutely no ability to verifiy whether they've built anything this game. And they oh-so-coincidentally built the same invention, which is ready on the very same day.

Still think you guys want to kill me first after coordinating abilities, but good stuff to keep mind about them.

Imopen, Red, anything you care to claim about your past building plan submissions?

[imopen2]

I can post them, sure.