Rx Burn

[LP, of the Fires]

I just think if I'm on 19, I'm playing a lot less low impact threes. I'm like, the only guy that likes sharedvolley though

[Khaospawn]

Yeah, I'll never play Shard Volley again. I've lost too many games with that card in my hand.

What are the low impact 3's?

[LP, of the Fires]

Well... more like low damage output. If you get stuck on two and clogged on three s, it'll be slow to finish with falls and rains at two damage each.

[Khaospawn]

I'm running 4 Flames of the Blood Hand.

Honestly, this is the deck I feel has the most "answers" to everything:

Not Mono Red

---

[deck]
Creature 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Burn 28
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Molten Rain

Land 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
6 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground

Sideboard 15
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Searing Blood
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Volcanic Fallout
[/deck]

The Molten Rains could just be Flames of the Blood Hand for pure speed.

I just don't think it really jives well with my style.

[magicdownunder]

If your going to play Dega you don't what low impact 3cc spells like Molten Rain.....

[Khaospawn]

If your going to play Dega you don't what low impact 3cc spells like Molten Rain.....

So it'd be Flames then...

[magicdownunder]

I didn't look at that list correctly, it was Rbg not Dega - Molten Rain is ok in that list.

Though you don't need Relic if your running the RB Charm.

[Khaospawn]

I didn't look at that list correctly, it was Rbg not Dega - Molten Rain is ok in that list.

Though you don't need Relic if your running the RB Charm.

I'm okay with both in the G/b/x matchup. Vexing Devils come out, Charms and Relics come in.

[magicdownunder]

Why not just run 4x Rakdos Charm?

They're better vs Robots, Twins, Folk, WW, Junk (it can deal well over 4+ damage with all the tokens), Vial.decks and anything else which uses artifacts.

[Khaospawn]

I don't want 4. Relic can draw me a card when I cycle, plus it's easier on the mana. I also have other cards to use in those match ups.

[LP, of the Fires]

Khaos has known me and z for about two years or so now. Nigga diversifies his sideboard.

[magicdownunder]

Fair enough, I personally wouldn't run Relic if I'm splashing Black because its feels so redundant (even if you dislike 4x Charm you can just run something else in that slot).

[Khaospawn]

What do you guys think about Koth in the board to fight Leyline decks

[magicdownunder]

I like the idea of Koth but the decks which pack Leylines can usually close out the game too quickly for him to matter - Its also a stretch to resolve him with only 20 lands....

Maybe we can try running Figure of Destiny, Kargan Dragonlord or something in the SB (or we can splash green/white).

[Khaospawn]

This is looking like what I'll be running tomorrow after some paper testing:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Burn 26
2 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
1 Shard Volley
3 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Flames of the Blood Hand

Land 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
10 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground

Sideboard 15
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Combust
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Searing Blood
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Relic of Progenitus
[/deck]

I'm not sure what else to add or rearrange. I have to remember that this isn't the online metagame and that there really is a diverse paper meta in my area. Just in the last 40 person tournament I played alone, that were both versions of Tron, Affinity, Rock-style, Twin, Pod, Merfolk, U/R Delver, Burn decks of all styles, U/W/x, and a whole slew of other fringe decks. It'
s a very real possibility my first two rounds could be Ad Nauseam and Soul Sisters with Norin the Wary. Who the fuck knows...

[Khaospawn]

I keep thinking Combust should be something else though. Something spicy that deals some damage...

[magicdownunder]

I keep thinking Combust should be something else though. Something spicy that deals some damage...

Combust is for Twins right? You could try Flame Javelin in its place, I think beside Destructive Revelry and Rakdos Charm its the only card which can deal damage and answer twins in a pinch,

[Khaospawn]

Yes, it's for Twin, however it does have its uses for Merfolk, I guess.

I am not going to splash Back. I played a Black splash version repeatedly in paper today and the games I did lose came down to the life loss I sustained while trying to fix my mana. Eschewing black means I don't get to play with Charm, but I'm okay with that.

Dismember is a card, I suppose. But I am trying to protect my life total and Combust is appealing due to its uncounterability and 2 CMC.

[Khaospawn]

Maybe 2 Molten Rains can make an appearance? I forget that Revelry can always nuke the actual Splinter Twin enchantment.

[magicdownunder]

Maybe 2 Molten Rains can make an appearance? I forget that Revelry can always nuke the actual Splinter Twin enchantment.

I dislike Molten Rain vs Twins because of counters, but I like its appeal vs BGx decks.

Have you've tried Sudden Shock? Its crushes Arcbound Ravager (try saccing yourself now punk ), Infect and its punishes control players from stock piling counters for "the last burn" it also helps vs Twins because they tend to do the same thing and only counter the "lethal burn".

P.S. Remember to target the Enchantment after the original taps or when the "twin's" untap ability
is on the stack - don't target the enchantment on the original immediately or he'll just spam out twins anyways (I doubt you'll make this mistake but I did once ).

[Khaospawn]

Maybe 2 Molten Rains can make an appearance? I forget that Revelry can always nuke the actual Splinter Twin enchantment.

I dislike Molten Rain vs Twins because of counters, but I like its appeal vs BGx decks.

Have you've tried Sudden Shock? Its crushes Arcbound Ravager (try saccing yourself now punk ), Infect and its punishes control players from stock piling counters for "the last burn" it also helps vs Twins because they tend to do the
same thing and only counter the "lethal burn".

P.S. Remember to target the Enchantment after the original taps or when the "twin's" untap ability is on the stack - don't target the enchantment on the original immediately or he'll just spam out twins anyways (I doubt you'll make this mistake but I did once ).

Man, I do like that Sudden Shock.... it can even kill a ScOoze with the exile trigger on the stack.

The more I think about it though, I may need to keep Molten Rain in only because vs Rock/Jund decks, I have to remove the Vexing Devils (ScOoze/Tarmo food) and Grim Lavamancers (they'll never survive to be worthwhile) and I need 6 worthwhile cards to bring it, which could be just Molten Rain, Searing Blood, and Relic of Progenitus.

It may very well come down to Sudden Shock vs Volcanic Fallout. I started using Fallout online once
I started seeing more Junk Souls, Geist decks and Leylines. 3CMC Uncounterable sweeper vs "Uncounterable" Shock. Hmm... Both have their merits.

[Khaospawn]

Anyways, I'm definitely gonna sleep over it. Literally. I need to make sure I get 8 hours of solid rest before a long day of playing, so I'll be getting off here real soon. I will definitely be checking back in about 8-9 hours, so if you think of anything else that may help or is just really spicy, lemme know.

[magicdownunder]

How did you go Khaos?

[Khaospawn]

I scrumped hard.

I didn't play with Combust and I paid the price.

[Khaospawn]

Lesson learned.

[Blackhound]

Burn won GP Kobe, cant link to it on this tablet, there was another burn deck that finished 6th as well.

[magicdownunder]

First Place

[deck=Teruya Kakumae's Boros Burn]Lands 20
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Battlefield Forge

Creatures 15
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer

Burns 25
4 Lava Spike
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Boros Charm
3 Searing Blood
3 Shard Volley

Sideboard 15
4 Molten Rain
4 Stony Silence
1 Shatterstorm
2 Wear // Tear
4 Leyline of Sanctity
[/deck]

Forth Place

[deck=Bo Sun's Boros Burn]Lands 20
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain

Burns 30
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shard Volley
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
4 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
1 Flames of the Blood Hand

Creatures 10
4 Goblin Guide
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Hellspark Elemental

Sideboard 15
2 Searing Blood
3 Wear // Tear
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Molten Rain
2 Combust[/
deck]

Both players wielding anti-burn burn decks, I sense deep metagame here.

Would you use Leyline vs UWr and/or Discard ?

[Khaospawn]

To answer the Leyline question, I think I'd rather be the one answering the leyline than playing it, to be honest.

[Khaospawn]

I think the real question is: is it now worthwhile to preemptively side in Revelries versus R/w/x for Game 2?

[LP, of the Fires]

I just feel vindicated that both decks played Boros charm and shared volley.

[Khaospawn]

I feel vindicated in that Vexing Devil is in the winning list.

[Mr. Metronome]

I just shelled out for a lot of the cards for Legacy and Modern Burn on MTGO. I couldn't afford Scalding Tarns, so the lists aren't quite ideal, but I do have Arid Mesas. This is where I'm at for Modern, anything you would change?

[deck]4 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
8 Mountain

4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
3 Flames of the Bloodhand

Sideboard:
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Combust
1 Sudden Shock
3 Searing Blood
1 Skullcrack
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Dragon's Claw
[/deck]

I'm not sold on the sideboard yet, it was very much whipped together.

[Khaospawn]

I'm much more of a fan of Mono Red

It hurts itself less

[LP, of the Fires]

I think at this point, the data says mono red is just bad.

JUST.

BAD.

Rdw is different, but for burn, you're definitely handicapping yourself by not slashing.

[Khaospawn]

What data?

[hamfactorial]

Anecdata

[Khaospawn]

Online Mono Red is better

In paper, splashes are putting up results, however if you're expecting to run into splash Burn decks, run Mono Red to beat it

[Khaospawn]

LP, that's the most blanket and ignorant statement I've ever heard read from you

C'mon, man, I expect more from you

[Khaospawn]

Now that I'm at a computer, I can clarify a little bit better.

If you look at a lot of the results of tournaments in the last month or so, you'll see that the online metagame is predominantly Mono Red Burn, while the paper metagame is predominantly R/b/w/x (or just "Splash Burn"). Something could be argued about the 2 different metagames and blah, bah, blah but I'll try to break it down into something similar.

It's like rock, paper, scissors, really.

The advantages that you gain from splashing is a handful of powerful Burn spells and a few more 'flexible' sideboard options. In the paper world, the splash option has accelerated Burn's speed and resiliency into a whole new level, but certainly the Eidolon has added to that (along with the acceptance of Vexing Devil in the wake of Deathrite Shaman's banning). The Splash Burn is capable of taking down the majority of the field that uses greedy
manabases such as G/B Rock, Twin, and Pod. However, this strength is also Splash Burn's biggest weakness.

Enter: Mono Red Burn. Mono Red Burn can use just as many powerful spells but with using a much more stable manabase. While some claim that it loses speed (for example: being forced to play Flames of the Blood Hand as a 3CMC 4 damage spell over Boros Charm as a CMC 4 damage spell or being forced to play some number of Shard Volley as Bolts 13-16 or Magma Jet), it makes up for that without being forced to have lands come into play tapped and also being able to preserve its life total. As for sideboard options, Mono Red can still cover its bases pretty well, even with a sideboard consisting of something like this:

[deck=Khaos' current online deck]
Creature 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Vexing Devil

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Shard Volley
2 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Flames of the Blood Hand

Land 20
4 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding
Tarn
14 Mountain

Sideboard 15
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Combust
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Searing Blood
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Dragon's Claw
[/deck]

The only thing that board is really missing is some enchantment hate, a problem that is easily rectified by slotting in a Stomping Ground and using Revelry over Smash.

When Splash Burn and Mono Red (or R/g Burn) face head to head, expect Mono Red Burn to come on top simply for the fact that it will not be hurting itself or hindering itself due to the manabase.

What do I predict? In paper, I fully expect the amount of Splash Burn decks to rise. But to combat this, I also expect to see Mono Red or R/g decks surge in popularity due to their resistance to Splash Burn. In the end, there will be acceleration on both sides, with Splash Burn beginning to use Leyline or Dragon's Claw for the mirror and then Mono Red trying to next level that. However, online, I expect things to remain about the same. The online metagame moves at a
much faster pace than paper and it's always hard for certain versions of a paper Burn deck to stick (just look at Heals' list, for example) without it getting smacked around by the cheaper, Mono Red versions of Burn. Another example is with Grim Lavamancer: he hasn't been great for me online in about 2 months, but in paper he's a goddamn sexual Tyrannosaurus!

The Boros Burn decks that were featured in Kobe were interesting, to say the least. I know the Japanese metagame is very weird (those sideboards!), but you can't deny the power of Boros Charm. In fact, at the PTQ I attended, there were 2 Burn decks in the top 4: Boros Burn and Levy's Mono Red Burn.

Burn is a real deck, thanks to Eidolon, and there are many flavors. It just depends on what you want to do. They're all good.

[LP, of the Fires]

Basically online results only matter if you play online. Additionally, mono red is generally always gonna do better onLine based on costs. Look at you. You own all the staples but didn't want to buy everything twice, so you play the cheaper deck. All the successful burn decks I've seen so well in events have splashed. Recently, gOing backwards, doesn't matter. Also, EXPECTING to play the burn mirror and finding for percentage there at the cost of the rest of the first seems pretty backwards, especially taking in to account all the board cards you lose.

The power you lose isn't worth the slight consistency bump.