[Primer] Boros Burn

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:44 am

I like everything except for Prophetic Flamespeaker and W//T (but its player bias so disregard it)

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BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:07 am

Just came back from FNM and I have to say that Stoke the Flames is insane. The convoke really makes it easier to cast. Went 4-0 tonight with this:

[deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells (29)
4 Boros Charm
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Stoke the Flames
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands (23)
3 Battlefield Forge
8 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:11 am

Thanks for the report Blaklanner, I'm glad stoke the flames was working for you

How often did Convoke matter for flames and in what MUs did this occur?

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:15 am

I cast it 8 times over the matches and convoked it about half of them. I played against a MBC player in round two where it was huge. I had a YP out and he was all in on the Pack Rat Plan. The convoke allowed me to strike one rat and use the additional token plus another creature to cast the Stoke and knock out the other one. I was simply dead if it was Helix since he could have kept the Rat chain going.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:41 am

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:05 am

*Shouta list. Not Saito list. I'm so fucking tired right now.

NotARobot · Postby **NotARobot** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:40 am

What were you mainly hitting revoker with when you cast it?

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:07 am

The big names for me were Pack Rat and Jace.

BiddingMaster · Postby **BiddingMaster** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:40 am

It can if you turn it to a frog first!

i thought indistructibility was a characteristic of the card not an ability like unblockable?

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:07 am

Nope, they revised it to be an ability after all the confusion with Turn/Burn.

BiddingMaster · Postby **BiddingMaster** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:20 am

personally i like the altac bloodletter in the rdw deck better than anything else. In the burn deck it only makes the matchups that are already good for us into really good matchups for us so it doesnt make that much sense. Stoke to me just seems like its a nonbo with yp since it costs so much mana and we need to be casting as many spells as we can per turn. Also in the mirror what do you do when you stoke them for 4 and they have helix? I have not played paper magic so I dont know exactly what my metagame is going to look like but the only real addition im going to make to my deck is adding battlefield forge and taking out excess etbt lands. Pretty much everything else is going to stay the same. Unlesss some other crazy deck comes out of the woodwork that really shakes up the format i suspect it will be much the same with a few maindeck changes here and there. Also I really hope mono black taps out at 5 for lilliana vess so
I can punish them even harder for durdling

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:28 am

Turn//Burn worked on gods, though.

RedNihilist · Postby **RedNihilist** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:29 am

Edit: too slow D:

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:58 am

personally i like the altac bloodletter in the rdw deck better than anything else. In the burn deck it only makes the matchups that are already good for us into really good matchups for us so it doesnt make that much sense. Stoke to me just seems like its a nonbo with yp since it costs so much mana and we need to be casting as many spells as we can per turn. Also in the mirror what do you do when you stoke them for 4 and they have helix? I have not played paper magic so I dont know exactly what my metagame is going to look like but the only real addition im going to make to my deck is adding battlefield forge and taking out excess etbt lands. Pretty much everything else is going to stay the same. Unlesss some other crazy deck comes out of the woodwork that really
shakes up the format i suspect it will be much the same with a few maindeck changes here and there. Also I really hope mono black taps out at 5 for lilliana vess so I can punish them even harder for durdling

If you tap out for stoke without SC backup in the mirror you deserve too lose.....

Stoke is just additional four damage spell, its not the most efficient spell but in many of the longer grinder games that extra damage becomes pivotal (what would you rather top in the latter game Shock or Stoke?).

HK1997 · Postby **HK1997** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:38 am

If you tap out for stoke without SC backup in the mirror you deserve too lose.....

Stoke is just additional four damage spell, its not the most efficient spell but in many of the longer grinder games that extra damage becomes pivotal (what would you rather top in the latter game Shock or Stoke?).

Top decking vs mirror? Awaken the the ancient of course!

Have a great weekend everyone! The sun is shining and life is beautiful!

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:05 am

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.

Did you run into any UW control? That's been my only issue with the Shouta list.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:58 am

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.

Good job, keep it up!

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:01 pm

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.
Did you run into any UW control? That's been my only issue with the Shouta list.

I faced Esper. I won the
first game easy enough. I lost Game 2 when I should've redirected a Chandra ping to an Elspeth to keep her from making an emblem. I barely won Game 3. I got lucky to rip a Skullcrack from the to for lethal. I actually wished I had Assemble in my board for this match. Unsure if boarding in Flamespeaker is the right choice since he always bit it to a Dsphere, but then again, he IS a must deal with threat if they don't have a Jace. Plus, if they Dpshere him right away, then that means they aren't playing it on a Phoenix.

rage_jl · Postby **rage_jl** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:34 pm

Altac Bloodletter plays the same role Ashley the Zealot played in the earlier versions of this deck. Early efficient damage and not the worst critter on the board after it's outclassed. YP$ was adopted for value and better looks than Ashley.

I'm playing an IQ today I think I'll play the main NotARobot posted except -1 Helix and +1 Stoke. I wasn't arguing against Stoke a couple days ago I wanted to see the thought behind it. I want the extra over Helix for the occasional Blood Baron or Stormbreath. I'll post a deck after the event.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:47 pm

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it
would've been nice.
Did you run into any UW control? That's been my only issue with the Shouta list.
I faced Esper. I won the first game easy enough. I lost Game 2 when I should've redirected a Chandra ping to an Elspeth to keep her from making an emblem. I barely won Game 3. I got lucky to rip a Skullcrack from the to for lethal. I actually wished I had Assemble in my board for this match. Unsure if boarding in Flamespeaker is the right choice since he always bit it to a Dsphere, but then again, he IS a must deal with threat if they don't have a Jace. Plus, if they Dpshere him right away, then that means they aren't playing it on a Phoenix.

I haven't tested enough to be sure but I'm fairly certain at this point it's wrong to play him. He functions better as a control card without the pumps.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:46 pm

YP$ does NOT look better than Ashley. Say what you will about game play mechanics, but hot angry chick > goofy ginger dude. All day, erryday. You can run an tell dat, homeboy.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:03 pm

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is
just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.
Did you run into any UW control? That's been my only issue with the Shouta list.
I faced Esper. I won the first game easy enough. I lost Game 2 when I should've redirected a Chandra ping to an Elspeth to keep her from making an emblem. I barely won Game 3. I got lucky to rip a Skullcrack from the to for lethal. I actually wished I had Assemble in my board for this match. Unsure if boarding in Flamespeaker is the right choice since he always bit it to a Dsphere, but then again, he IS a must deal with threat if they don't have a Jace. Plus, if they Dpshere him right away, then that means they aren't playing it on a Phoenix.
I haven't tested enough to be sure but I'm fairly certain at this point it's wrong to play him. He functions better as a control card without the pumps.

Agreed. He makes playing the Control Role so much easier. In fact, he was the only reason I was able to come back from a losing position against Boss Sligh. I keep using the word 'bonkers' to describe how powerful he is, but it's the truth. It feels like I'm cheating.

Moving forward, I think I need to devise a better plan fighting UWx. To be fair to myself, this was my first time playing the Shouta list and a lot of these newer cards and I haven't played Standard since a JOU Game Day. I may cut down to 1 Pillar of Light and shave a Gryff for 2 Assemble or something.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:07 pm

Since I'm still pre m15 on mtgo, I'm trying a straight cut of the reckoners for t/t again. Glad flamespeaker was working out for you. I was genuinely surprised how much people hated on the card (without testing it).

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:28 pm

I'm willing to try almost anything. My only gripe about the Shouta list had nothing to do with the cards. It was with the hivemind that touted it as the hottest thing since the creation of the Lightning Bolt yet couldn't understand the basic fundamentals of how the sideboarding worked. People were trying to cut the Flamespeaker and other cards and then wanted to be spoonfed a new sideboard strategy from James because they didn't 'get it'. Honestly, I don't see how any of it is so hard to understand. This deck is made to take a more....controlling approach (for lack of a better description.) It's aggressive enough to be the beatdown when it needs to be and flexible enough to switch gears. The sideboard is pretty close to a transformational sideboard if there ever was one. If anything, it reminds me of the approach a lot of us took early on in last year's Standard- sideboard into a 'bigger' deck and wall up with Hound
of Griselbrand, winning when paired with a Stonewright for the final crack back. I guess the newer players aren't too familiar with that

NotARobot · Postby **NotARobot** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:37 pm

Trying my list out at scg Baltimore today, ended up going a 2/3 spilt on stoke / helix in the main with a hushwing gryff over wear tear in the sb. Took down the burn mirror in round one already, but I was sweating the whole time wishing I had the fourth helix.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:53 pm

Gryff so strong. When your opponents start whining, you just say, "hush!"

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:57 pm

Honestly, if you have Dead cards in your deck, there's not really "tech" that you need against control so much as a solid strategy. A lot of it is sitting there doingnothing for a while at a certain point. I personally want to hit about six lands and hold up mana for the whole game and hopefully have some dork in play that I'm bashing with.

Also, the reason six mana is the sweet spot is because that's enough to play a Phoenix with shock up to retrieve it while still threatening skullcrack.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:14 pm

6 mana makes me feel safe.

NotARobot · Postby **NotARobot** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:20 pm

Haha yeah I got obliterated r2 by esper because I had to mull in 2 out of three games and couldn't draw more than three lands, but easily won when I had land.

Round three was fun though, mono blue guy kinda lost it when I landed 2 flame speakers and then hushwing

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:39 pm

HUSH!

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:51 pm

I got a gryff to play for you.
Yeah, I gotta gryff to play.
I notice your guys are all blue to me
And counting your pips it makes no sense at all

Words came out of your mouth
Flashing in my gryff and it flies
It's white and it flies

Shuts down the waves
Flashing in my gryff and it flies
It's white and it flies

Hush
Hush
Hush hush hush

Nothing compares to a Torpor Orb on a stick
Just a two- one that I'm counting on
This never happens
I guess I'm dreaming again
C'mon and checkout my Hushwing Gryff.

cloudscraper · Postby **cloudscraper** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Hi guys, back from a big-ISH hiatus.

Are we going to work on the deck for the various WMCQs in the next few months? They should be a pretty huge event for pretty much everyone.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:42 pm

I don't know. Are we?

:scrump:

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:51 pm

Just came back from FNM and I have to say that Stoke the Flames is insane. The convoke really makes it easier to cast. Went 4-0 tonight with this:

[deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells (29)
4 Boros Charm
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Stoke the Flames
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands (23)
3 Battlefield Forge
8 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

where do you bring in Phyrexian Revoker?

NotARobot · Postby **NotARobot** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:59 pm

So I'm at the halfway point in scg bmore and can conclusively say that I'm going back to 4 helix instead of 3/2 stoke the second this is over.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:12 pm

4/1 seems good.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:21 pm

Revokers best against Jace, and passable in a lot of matchups. Against jund monsters for instance, you can name domri, polukranos, mystic, our Caryatid, and those are all fine choices.

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:50 pm

where do you bring in Phyrexian Revoker?

I brought it in against control and mono black yesterday. I would also consider bringing it in against mono green and monsters.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:10 am

I'm willing to try almost anything. My only gripe about the Shouta list had nothing to do with the cards. It was with the hivemind that touted it as the hottest thing since the creation of the Lightning Bolt yet couldn't understand the basic fundamentals of how the sideboarding worked. People were trying to cut the Flamespeaker and other cards and then wanted to be spoonfed a new sideboard strategy from James because they didn't 'get it'. Honestly, I don't see how any of it is so hard to understand. This deck is made to take a more....controlling approach (for lack of a better description.) It's aggressive enough to be the beatdown when it needs to be and flexible enough to switch gears. The sideboard is pretty close to a transformational sideboard if there
ever was one. If anything, it reminds me of the approach a lot of us took early on in last year's Standard- sideboard into a 'bigger' deck and wall up with Hound of Griselbrand, winning when paired with a Stonewright for the final crack back. I guess the newer players aren't too familiar with that

Ah. It was always obvious to me it was a anti creature control card strategy which is why I always compared it with mortar. For what it is worth, I found a straight swap of reckoner with Trouble made my control matchup far better (video coming). It does weaken the monsters matchup but I'm hoping pillar of light cleans that up. Not sure how to fit Torpor Bird in with a flamespeaker build but I really want to.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:44 am

I'm most likely going to cope flak for this but Flamespeaker is still terrible against a T1 meta - sure he slaughters small aggro (we already do this anyways) but he is slow and clunky vs control and midrange (Bx Devo, Monster, Gx Devo) that said you guys are forcing it anyways, this was the general augment, nothing has changed really.

Anyhow the whole point of that rant was to say: If I have too pick Flame or Torpor Bird I'll take the Torpor Bird in a heartbeat just so that I can disable Ux and Bx Devo more since imo these are the decks which matter.

Dies to Removal

[Primer] Boros Burn

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