Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

Wraith223 (3): rezombad, InflatablePie, Lord_Mcdonalds
Jack (3): Cursed_Pride, Wraith223, hamfactorial
hamfactorial (1): RedNihilist
Mogadishu Jones (1): Dechs Kaison

Not voting: Jack, Mogadishu Jones

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

[Stardust]

Cursed_Pride and rezombad have been prodded.

[RedNihilist]

Placeholder: answer for DK.
Message to deliver: nobody is ever cleared because WIFOM (except C_P, of course).

[Mogadishu Jones]

Been held up in bed with food poisoning. Good now. Reading.

[hamfactorial]

Welcome back, MoJo, happy to hear you're alive.

[Wraith223]

So InflateablePie is the king maker this game? If he has questions; send them. I said I roleblocked LMD cause he was my other scum read besides Red. Not sure what is scummy about that. I am town roleblocker and that is my claim as you can gather from past posts. Besides a few others, I am one of the few that actually posts a reason for my votes and factors why it is strong and weak for town to grasp my position. I don't ask for wagons without evidence, but others asking for wagons without evidence are getting away with it. Lurkers are being ignored. I am glad Inflateablepie nailed scum day 1, but so many voted Rcw without a read of their own. That bothers me when they demand answers but won't answer my questions. To be town this game, one must lurk, not answer anyone's questions except Inflateablepie's, call others crazy, and not give reads for votes given. Is this the new meta or new acceptable town?

I need a smiley
that is pissed off while throwing paperwork up in the air. Jack is the stronger vote as he just said that he has nothing to add. That is not town and town players must be actively scum hunting for town to win. Inflateablepie is tunneling with me or is the meanest scum player to buss Rcw.

[Wraith223]

Been held up in bed with food poisoning. Good now. Reading.

Hope you don't have the sickness return.

What is up with all the folks on this site getting food poisoning? Are you guys bad cooks? Eating out of dumpsters? Eating at Denny's?

Eat safe people.

[rezombad]

I'm here. I'll read and catch up later

[Mogadishu Jones]

Wait this game has a kingmaker?

[Mogadishu Jones]

What?

[Wraith223]

Wait this game has a kingmaker?

Apparently, as all I have done/asked was for folks to have evidence or a read for their vote. I believe in accountability and openness for town to win. Inflateablepie has me perplexed in pushing a vote for me. Has anyone considered that Inflateablepie asked red to vote rcw in order to get the other scum to buss rcw as a group vote? Rcw pretty much quit playing after the questions from Inflateablepie were posted and others demanded answers. Sounds like rcw quietly quit in response. Speculation of course, but it is a scenario town should consider as Inflateablepie is now the driving force for votes on targets of his choice. Any thoughts on this from other players?

[InflatablePie]

fullclaim, now. flavor? unlimited shots?

I don't like this.

if you're going to claim, you had best fullclaim. especially if you're on the potential chopping block for today.

alright so:
LMD was counterwagon to scum so he's clear
[/quote:
7f3hnez6]
Could you explain this?

game was stalling with votes being even on two players. I believe that LMD is town because rcw flipped scum. is it possible they're scum together? yeah. I don't think it's likely: Occam's Razor.

more fun facts - LMD is more-town if Wraith is town. : if LMD was scum, scum would most likely have him submit the kill since being the counterwagon to rcw yesterday 'confirmed' him as town. thus they would probably use LMD to submit the NK. this is more speculation than anything though.

@Red: oh? why didn't you say so earlier? also what did you mail him because I'm curious.

Pie, it bothers me that you're trying to clear people that just doesn't feel right. You're also going back and forth a lot in those posts, correcting yourself. At best, it's impulsive and at worst it's intentional
distractions (i.e. scummy). I'm going to go with impulsive because if I remember correctly, you actually started the shift in wagon over to Rcw. That's pretty vindicating. Maybe just settle down and think a lot more before you post because it's getting hard to know what to trust from you.

don't make me suspect you now

also I know what I'm doing.

re: your vote on MJ, go back and read my exchanges w/ Captain Murphy (same slot). do you think scum would breadcrumb a role such as theirs (if you recall, they used a neat power end-of-day yesterday).

lynching lurkers is okay if you have the advantage but I wouldn't call one scum lynched 'advantaged'. maybe if we get another one lynched today, but even then I'm always a bit skeptical on lynch-all-lurkers.

Pie is either definitely town (most likely) or just really, really
good at looking like it. There's strong town mindset in pretty much everything he posts, and it's pretty much impossible to keep up a false mindset when posting stream-of-consciousness like that.

not impossible. maybe a bit trickier, but I've faked it as scum before (oh no I'm being self-aware (oh no I'm being self-aware)).

I wouldn't say I'm the best player, I'm usually pretty bad <_<

re:Red "nobody is ever cleared" oh shut up. duh doy no one's 100% cleared, but I think when things hit a certain point you can eliminate them from a lynch pool. I hate this line of thought.

Wraith didn't you vote rcw because of the questions I asked him and his lack of response; that doesn't seem like a 'read of your own'.

@MJ: Wraith uses interesting terms sometimes, I think he meant to call me the 'town leader' of sorts.

[pedit] Wraith are you seriously trying to paint me as scum when I'm currently voting you and deciding if I want
to make you dead

that seems like a bad idea but if you're scum pls continue

[Dechs Kaison]

re: your vote on MJ, go back and read my exchanges w/ Captain Murphy (same slot). do you think scum would breadcrumb a role such as theirs (if you recall, they used a neat power end-of-day yesterday).

Ugh. Damn good points. I wasn't thinking about trying to read the slot before and I totally missed the breadcrumbs until you mentioned them.

Unvote.

I still think we should lynch a lurker. Like I said, it's the safest option right now. We either get scum who's hiding or someone who wasn't helping anyway.

[Dechs Kaison]

Also the whole "I don't want to be next, so I'll have to post more" aspect of it. We'll get more posts to be able to form reads from.

[RedNihilist]

Alive players - 8 vs 2

Cursed_Pride
RedNihilist
InflatablePie
Mogadishu Jones
rezombad
Lord_Mcdonalds
Wraith223
Dechs Kaison
Jack
hamfactorial

Dead town (for future reference, I'm not going to reread him for now)
imopen2 - http://diestoremoval.com/search.php?aut ... 8&sr=posts

Dead scum:
rcwraspy - http://diestoremoval.com/search.php?aut ... 8&sr=posts

rcwraspy's wagon:
DroppinSuga -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=222654#p222654
InflatablePie -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=224888#p224888 |pivotal vote #1|
Cursed_Pride -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226255#p226255
RedNihilist #1 -> [url]http://
diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=224969#p224969[/url] - later unvoted 'coz deadline issues.
imopen2 -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226769#p226769 |pivotal vote #2 - gives life back to the wagon|
RedNihilist #2 -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226830#p226830
Jack -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226837#p226837
Wraith223 -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226895#p226895
Mogadishu Jones -> http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?p=226901#p226901 - hammer, right after a blatant non-vote by ham

Non-voting players:
DK, ham, LMD, raspy himself, rezmo

Personal reads:
- Suga (now DK) seemed genuine at the time, because he unvoted me when my wagon was pretty much at the top of his momentum to vote raspy.

WIFOM -> he could have just tried to "play nice" knowing I was flipping town hoping to gain towncred, and distance himself from raspy.
Seems unlikely, though.
- Pie is pretty much confirmed town OR MasterScum. I have faith in the former.
- C_P is C_P.
- I'll let someone else comment my actions.
- Jack follows my line of thought (lynch is better than no lynch) and hops on the wagon when lynching raspy becomes a thing.
- Wraith unwillingly chooses to let the evil people guide his actions and votes for a lynch.
- MoJo delivers the blow because reasons.

- DK is actually but doesn't actually do anything. Noobshield for him.
- ham faces the deadline by taking time.
- LMD is active but doesn't vote for neither of the two wagons: voting for himself would be stupid, voting for raspy would feel desperate anyway; I actually liked his stance here.
- raspy faces his last hours by disappearing in order to avoid giving us info.
- rezmo stands by his LMD vote and is not online when the day
ends.

Impressions:

Pie is town with CP, SugaDK is probably as well.
I'm obviously in my own townpile.

I see rezmo and LMD as null leaning town.
I haven't go a read on The MoJo formerly known as CM.

I had a town read on Wraith, but I'm really disappointed at him and I need to reread him.
Jack is actually quite scummy.
I still consider ham scum.

I hope to find time to reread things properly on saturday morning.

[RedNihilist]

@Red: oh? why didn't you say so earlier? also what did you mail him because I'm curious.

I just didn't feel the need of making it public.
Anyway, I just thought that I could die during the night, so I decided to send my last thoughts / reads to the player I found "towniest", but avoiding C_P because I expected him to be a prime-target for mail-blocking or things like that (see raspy's role PM).

[hamfactorial]

Red:

Is your scum read on me a result of not hammering raspy on day 1? You paint me as blatantly non-voting, while I was active and stated clearly that I would cast the vote with a half hour left. MoJo hammered 1 minute after I stated that I was ready to cast the vote, are you going to lean that heavily on my perceived non-action simply because he got there first?

[RedNihilist]

Red:

Is your scum read on me a result of not hammering raspy on day 1? You paint me as blatantly non-voting, while I was active and stated clearly that I would cast the vote with a half hour left. MoJo hammered 1 minute after I stated that I was ready to cast the vote, are you going to lean that heavily on my perceived non-action simply because he got there first?

Nope, I considered you scum before as well as you should know already.
Also, tunneling is a thing nowadays, I wouldn't really expect somebody to act based on that single thing.

[RedNihilist]

re:Red "nobody is ever cleared" oh shut up. duh doy no one's 100% cleared, but I think when things hit a certain point you can eliminate them from a lynch pool. I hate this line of thought.

That was an answer to DK though.
I just felt like he's searching for shortcuts.

[hamfactorial]

Red:

Is your scum read on me a result of not hammering raspy on day 1? You paint me as blatantly non-voting, while I was active and stated clearly that I would cast the vote with a half hour left. MoJo hammered 1 minute after I stated that I was ready to cast the vote, are you going to lean that heavily on my perceived non-action simply because he got there first?

Nope, I considered you scum before as well as you should know already.
Also, tunneling is a thing nowadays, I wouldn't really expect somebody to act based on that single thing.

Alright, that's fair.
You're wrong but I appreciate that you're consistent about it

carry on.

[InflatablePie]

unvote

The thing I don't get about Jack, Red, is that he switched from LMD to rcw when the wagons were 4:4. I don't get why he'd do that as scum.

so I'm town, Red can be town. C_P is duh!town. If Jack is town and Wraith is town Roleblocker and CM/MJ is town... that's an all-town wagon. the thing that's bugging me is why would Wraith randomly claim a roleblock early D1 if he was scum (probably a scum roleblocker if he was fakeclaiming).

I think scum HAS to be in Jack/Wraith... I like Jack's play a bit better but I'm hesitant to lynch Wraith tbh. Ugh.

Let's say it's an all-town wagon. Remaining players: rezombad, Dechs, ham, LMD. LMD was the counterwagon to scum... but LMD wasn't voting rcw yesterday? rcw also wasn't voting, but since he's conf-scum I'm not touching that WIFOM.

Dechs replaced Suga, I'm getting newbtells from his slot now. I remember not liking Suga early
yesterday, but Suga parked his vote on rcw D1 when he had the chance to join other wagons, yeah? Although, Dechs did move the slot's vote to LMD eventually... Argh.

And ham/rezzy I thought was townVtown. I remember ham being townish-self-aware and rezzy tunneling on ham doesn't seem like a good move as scum.

I'm actually stumped at this point.

But I think we actually hunt off-the-wagon today...

[Wraith223]

@inflateablepie, my reads and possible calls on what scum are planning are for town. I did not vote you when I posted my thoughts as it would be "OMGussing". After the Theros game, I try to post all the possible plays I think could be afoot. On the issue of my reads of rcw, I did follow your call as rcw would not post anymore, but I also noticed the lack of correspondence between LMD and rcw. That was it and I thought my vote was bad until the mod gave the call.

@red, thank you for finally posting reads on folks. I agree with most except MoJo and Jack. I got you leaning town now, but have just a tiny bit of doubt. Better than before I guess.

See you all tomorrow.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Wait what are you guys calling a kingmaker? A kingmaker where I'm from makes kings and only kings can vote. Who's the king?

[Mogadishu Jones]

Oh and the fact ham didn't even bother to test my ability pretty much shows he's either a vanilla liar or a Mafioso. Which is it ham?

[Mogadishu Jones]

Shit maybe I can still play this game after all.

[hamfactorial]

Oh and the fact ham didn't even bother to test my ability pretty much shows he's either a vanilla liar or a Mafioso. Which is it ham?

Neither of these choices

[Mogadishu Jones]

vote:ham factor

Try again.

[Mogadishu Jones]

You're explanation for not testing the night ability doesn't fly. Either your scum or so bad as to not test my ability.

[hamfactorial]

I'm bad then, if those are my only two choices

[hamfactorial]

Why does me neglecting to test indicate anything other than I'm a dumbass? Please explain the scum motivation behind not testing your ability, if it was intentional.

[Cursed_Pride]

Prodded, will post more on the weekend.

I am surprised and appalled by the Wraith wagon. He's literally my strongest town read.

[InflatablePie]

MJ, I feel that ham is a bad vote at the moment.

I'll make another longish post tomorrow to explain this, but I do want to get this vote down:
vote rezombad

[InflatablePie]

ebwop: MJ, again (thought I said this before): Wraith doesn't literally mean I'm a Kingmaker, it was just a figure of speech, he does that a lot.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Why would I care if you think I have a bad vote?

[rezombad]

I haven't had time to post but I'm read up.

[Wraith223]

MJ, I feel that ham is a bad vote at the moment.

I'll make another longish post tomorrow to explain this, but I do want to get this vote down:
vote rezombad

Wait, what? Rez has contributed damning evidence against many players that have tried to claim. He was overly aggressive early game but cooled later. What pinged your radar?

[Dechs Kaison]

MJ, I feel that ham is a bad vote at the moment.

I'll make another longish post tomorrow to explain this, but I do want to get this vote down:
vote rezombad

Wait, what? Rez has contributed damning evidence against many players that have tried to claim. He was overly aggressive early game but cooled later. What pinged your radar?

I think it's the fact that he cooled that's pinging radars. Rez sure had me going and I'm still reluctant to think he's scum, but the whole coming on strong and stirring up a bunch of shit on LMD then
disappearing when the hunt went bad... well, it certainly looks odd.

[InflatablePie]

Before I get into ISOing rez to see if I can find anything more... concrete, here's a quick post.

MJ, don't get snarky with me. You should care because I'm town, you're presumably town, and town working together to find scum is helpful. Mafia 101. Hell, Red's post earlier on this page is the reason I decided to take a look at Rez. Listen to other townies' opinions, it helps sometimes.

SEGUE TIME

So I noticed that Red said he doesn't have the time to look through imopen's posts. So I figured I'd take a look at both him and rcw. I read through rcw first and noticed a few things.

- rcw pushed on Red a lot yesterday. When the wagon dissipated, he gave up. The manner in which he pushed Red and later backed off makes Red town as fuck, which is good because I was suspecting him for a moment there. Actually, Red is more likely town than LMD because scum pushing a player is more clearing than being a counterwagon
to scum. Usually.
- he has interesting interactions with Rez.

This post, where he calls out two of rez's reads (imopen and LMD), almost arbitrarily. He doesn't mention ham or CM - not mentioning ham is notable given the ham/rezzy feud, as not commenting on that read means he doesn't have to commit. The thing I found weird even when I read it the first time (when I made my case on rcw), was that he paused to ask this question in a new post (see here).

This post, his main comment on the Rez vs Ham kerfuffle. He doesn't actually give a read on Rez here. Read it over a few times.

This post, where he comments on imopen's 3p scumlist. The list consists of me, Rez and Red. He says "I don't have Pie on my scum list right now", which implies he doesn't have a problem lynching the other two. Right? Well, we know he wants to lynch Red given his posts yesterday. But why Rez? Didn't he say he could see ham/rez being town-on-town?

Maybe he's developing a 'scumread', he tells imopen he's coming around to the idea of a Rezlynch, but that language seems like he's avoiding giving a full commitment again. There IS a wagon on rez at this time, too. But again, he said he could see it being town
vs town... wondering what changed his mind. Oh well, he was scum and he's dead.

"But Pie, why are you using WIFOMy stuff from dead-scum to make your vote on rez?"

It's not just that. It's more WIFOMy stuff, from everyone's favorite dead townie: imopen2. He's probably cheering at me from the deadthread for listening to his read. Shut up, imopen.

Here is his ISO. Skim through it, real quick. There's nothing of note you need to read into. See how many times he wants to, or does, vote Rez? Rez was a huge suspect of his, and imopen died.

"PIE. THAT'S WIFOM. imopen could have been killed because they thought he was a PR."

Not the smart kill to make when you have a mail-Watcher your buddy pushed on, whatever-the-fuck MJ is, and an Innocent Child. It's like Thoughtseizing over Hero's Downfall when you're staring down a Polukranos and a
Stormbreath Dragon and you get the idea.

"He could have been killed because he was the towniest vote on the wagon!"

Why am I not dead, then? Or Red? imopen switched to rcw with a very 'meh' attitude; I think there were more townie players on the wagon.

"He could have been killed to frame rez!"

Here it is.

Analyzing NKs is tricky, and most people stay away from it. The meta of ignoring NKs allows scum to quietly take out threats to their team because anyone analyzing the NK gets yelled at "IT'S WIFOM". This situation is interesting, though. Occam's Razor says the simplest reason for imopen's death was because he suspected Rez. Either this is true, or the scumteam wants to frame him.

If rez is scum, this is a good play. If rez is town, scum gain the ability to frame rez for the kill. However, most of today's discussion has revolved around players on the rcw wagon, as that's how things usually go. I'm wondering, why would scum kill imopen to frame rez but
then not bring it up at all today? They should know town would hunt on the wagon. But no one's brought it up. Interesting.

Framing rez also comes with the added bonus of pulling attention off hunting on the rcw wagon. Given I PoE'd townreads all over the wagon earlier, assuming my reads are right this supports my theory - why pull attention off the wagon when there's all town on the wagon?

So basically, since no one has come forward trying to wagon rez (until me, I guess) for imopen dying, it leads me to believe there was another reason for his death. Going back to my process of elimination, it just leaves imopen being a threat to Rez.

Sidenote - at the very least, if I'm wrong, rez's lynch gives us a lot of info to work with - eliminates an off-the-wagon scumspect, confirms him as town which may help in rereading the rez/ham arguments, gives possible more insight into the scum NK last night... there's more substance here than, say, a Dechs lynch for an off-the-wagon
vote example.

Anyway, sorry for the mini-wall. I know this is a lot of WIFOM, but it's my full thought process for beginning to suspect rez. I'm going to clear my head for a bit, and later tonight I'll ISO Rez and try not to have any confirmation bias. If I can't find anything, this will look a bit silly. If I find some things... this is a nice supporting argument.

[InflatablePie]

rez, you should probably post thoughts of your own before addressing my case, since you're all caught up and whatnot. Mostly because I'm aware it's WIFOM and you won't have much to say in defense anyway.

[hamfactorial]

Pie:

On my re-read, I noticed how wildly anti-rez imopen2 was before he died, and mentioned it last page. I'm glad you pointed it out again.

That analysis of a possible rez frame job is very interesting, and one I hadn't considered. I've been operating under the assumption that rez is town (Occam's Razor says his mud fight with me is town on town rather than a risky scum move).