Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[InflatablePie]

rcwraspy (7): InflatablePie, Cursed_Pride, imopen2, RedNihilist, Jack, Wraith223, Mogadishu Jones

I'm town
CP is town
imopen is dead!town
Red claimed mail-Watcher
Jack is null
Wraith is town
Moga is town

so either we lynch Jack or Red today.

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town on it early because WIFOM.

also he's probably yelling at me in the deadQT, if there is one, for what I wrote him. it's really not important; I couldn't think of anything useful to send last night so I got all cheeky with him.

(sorry for lurking, been busy IRL. should have more time next week but I'll be visiting North Carolina so maybe not)

[InflatablePie]

someone who's less lazy than me should go back and see who was pushing the other wagon(s) over rcw.

I literally have not read anything this day so yeh.

[Dechs Kaison]

so either we lynch Jack or Red today.

I don't understand this, but it's probably just because I'm new. I get why you'd want to lynch Jack, but Red? He cleared his claim and the ability seems useful for town. He hadn't mentioned it, but can't a Watcher find out who uses other abilities at night?

[Mcdonalds]

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town on it early because WIFOM.

Actually you raise a good point, we should probably analyze imopens posts a bit

[InflatablePie]

@Dechs: he's a mail-Watcher, he can only watch who sends mail to who. a much less useful role here.

@LMD: gonna note here that we shouldn't read TOO far into NK speculation. it's still WIFOM, even though in my experiences (at least on mafiascum) scum tend to kill off threats (and I don't just mean PRs) more often than 'for the lulz'/framing. but still WIFOM.

[Dechs Kaison]

WIFOM?

(Yeah, I'm a total newb. Sorry.)

[Jack]

Wine in front of me. Remember?
Also surprised that my anonymous mail didn't come from pie.

[Dechs Kaison]

Ok, I remember now. I just didn't expect it to be used often enough to have its own acronym.

Also, Pie, you still didn't answer the question of why would you want to lynch Red. Regardless of the usefulness of his role, he's still extremely town.

[RedNihilist]

@Dechs: he's a mail-Watcher, he can only watch who sends mail to who. a much less useful role here.

This.

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town on it early because WIFOM.

Actually you raise a good point, we should probably analyze imopens posts a bit

"We"?

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

Wraith223 (1): rezombad
Jack (3): Cursed_Pride, Wraith223, InflatablePie
hamfactorial (2): RedNihilist, Dechs Kaison

Not voting: Jack, hamfactorial, Lord_Mcdonalds, Mogadishu Jones

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

[Dechs Kaison]

@Mod, is there a deadline for this vote?

[Stardust]

There is currently no deadline. You've got as long as you need so long as you guys keep up the activity.

[Wraith223]

@Red, I am sick of your ego and arrogance. You think that you are clear, and now you are trying to be the king maker. Calling me crazy town again just put you in my shit list. You won't receive help from me anymore. It is now offensive to me as I am tired of it and it is auto scum tell to me. I gave you a warning already.

If you saw something scummy about me in day 1; show your own damn work with quotes. Don't have someone else do your work. Every vote I gave has a trail for you to follow, reasons for my vote, and mitigating reasons why my vote could be wrong. I voted Rcw cause InflateablePie had a real case, RCW did not respond, and a no-lynch was not an option. You provided nothing but bloodthirsty demand for a vote without your own damn reads. Just saying Ham is scum to you is childish and lacking in "detective" skills as you call it. Put up your own damn reads on Ham cause your scum is showing.

I am
not buddying up with Rez. Rez has been quiet since day 1 on reads and we need more ACTUAL thought process/reads than you. I find that Rez is town as he given town mind set reads on everyone that I had a scum tell on. Even you.

I still see Jack as the stronger vote. Voting you now would just be "Oh My Gussing" and contributing to the distraction you are creating.

[Mcdonalds]

@Dechs: he's a mail-Watcher, he can only watch who sends mail to who. a much less useful role here.

This.

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town
on it early because WIFOM.

Actually you raise a good point, we should probably analyze imopens posts a bit

"We"?

We = town tryhard

[Wraith223]

@Dechs: he's a mail-Watcher, he can only watch who sends mail to who. a much less useful role here.

This.

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town on it early because WIFOM.

Actually you raise a good point, we should probably analyze imopens posts a bit

"We"?

We = town tryhard

He has no interest in doing any of his own work or well....work in general for town. Red only posts town reads when he being voted at significant levels.

[RedNihilist]

@Red, I am sick of your ego and arrogance. You think that you are clear, and now you are trying to be the king maker. Calling me crazy town again just put you in my shit list. You won't receive help from me anymore. It is now offensive to me as I am tired of it and it is auto scum tell to me. I gave you a warning already.

I don't care about being "clear", I just want to win this game and that's the single reason why I even bother reading your posts.
I never asked for your help, I just need to understand if your being so detrimental to my goal is actually masking some kind of purpose.
You may not like the word "insane", but we're playing mafia and I think that "insane town" is actually a good way to describe a
town player who claims having scum tells on half the players (with scum being just the 20% of them, of course) that - at the same time - tried as hard as he could to turn a scum-lynch into a no-lynch; you know, like the insane cop that investigates a player role and always gets the wrong result.

Also: I've never asked for your help. I've asked you for a read, that's a different thing; I didn't feel the urge to judge what happened, I wanted to judge your opinion on how people behaved - and you're dodging the thing in every possible way.

Also: I don't care about your "autoscumtells", I aim at lynching scum, pleasing you is not a priority.

Also:

If you saw something scummy about me in day 1; show your own damn work
with quotes. Don't have someone else do your work. Every vote I gave has a trail for you to follow, reasons for my vote, and mitigating reasons why my vote could be wrong. I voted Rcw cause InflateablePie had a real case, RCW did not respond, and a no-lynch was not an option. You provided nothing but bloodthirsty demand for a vote without your own damn reads. Just saying Ham is scum to you is childish and lacking in "detective" skills as you call it. Put up your own damn reads on Ham cause your scum is showing.

If you want to look at something scummy from yourself in Day 1, there's this funny post you ignored that still demands an answer:

In past game
with Fire and Ice, you were fairly quiet and quickly became more active.

Ok, you're either extra-tunneling or scum as hell - in F&I I've IMMEDIATELY started by being extra active.
But I can understand that in the first few days - THE ONES BEFORE I SUBBED IN - I was "fairly quiet".

Forging evidence is not really townie, you know?
Avoiding thorny posts is not as well.

Anyway, I'm voting for my strongest scum read for now and that's that, see ya

[InflatablePie]

we could always just lynch Wraith

like I think he's town but his push of (LMD?) yesterday was pretty bad with an rcw scumflip.

Also, Pie, you still didn't answer the question of why would you want to lynch Red. Regardless of the usefulness of his role, he's still extremely town. - I don't. I named off the people that were town because they're more likely town (since mail-Watcher can be either alignment tbh), then narrowed it to Jack and Red, and I went with Jack.

speaking of which, Jack, why are you 'surprised' I didn't mail you?

[InflatablePie]

actually it was Jack, not LMD.

Lord_Mcdonalds (5): Jack, rezombad, Dechs Kaison, hamfactorial, RedNihilist
rcwraspy (3): InflatablePie, Cursed_Pride, imopen2

then Red jumps back on rcw, which I guess he has no reason to do as scum

same with Jack actually, hmm.

unvote

oh and then Wraith jumps on LMD

he does jump back on rcw but at this point he's at L-2 and CM's replacement (MJ) has said "hey let's lynch rcw", then Wraith comes in and finally acknowledges my post. so that's less townpoints given the situation.

yeah ok

vote Wraith

[InflatablePie]

if Jack was scum he could have stayed on LMD, especially with Wraith eventually voting LMD would have resulted in LMD at L-2.

I also forgot he kinda newbtowntelled earlier yesterday, whoops.

alright so:
LMD was counterwagon to scum so he's clear
Jack is clear for switching to a scumwagon
Red is also clear for ^
I'm clear because reasons
C_P is clear
MJ is clear because reasons*

leaving:
Wraith
Dechs
ham
rezzy

*CM said "I'm not being lynched w/ this role" when I pressed him, then looking @ MJ's 'action' yesterday confirms the breadcrumb there (it's why I backed off CM yesterDay). also for coming in and being like "yeah sure let's lynch [scum] or whatever"

Wraith is the most likely scum on the rcw wagon (I have a hard time believing that was an all-town wagon since it came out of nowhere and stalled w/ LMD being a counterwagon at end-of-day. Once the push came from Red/Jack
and MJ threatening a vote, Wraith putting rcw at L-1 makes sense. especially considering the terrible pushing on Jack+LMD.

last scum is in Dechs/ham/rezzy probably, but I dunno because I got townvibes off ham+rezzy D1 so that means I'm wrong on a read somewhere.

also: right now it's 8:2. ML would bring us to 6:2, then to 4:2. so we have ~3 chances to hit one scum, seems do-able.

[InflatablePie]

if we lynch scum correctly again and the scum kill me off because I'm 2gud, someone please just remember my reads. like I could be wrong but I think trying to eliminate via PoE is a strong strategy at the moment and I'm probably on the right track.

there's a few things bugging me still but I think I'll get those answers by the end of Day.

[InflatablePie]

almost forgot: who else sent mail to imopen btw? I'm too lazy to check back but I know someone did

[InflatablePie]

right, Wraith mailed him.

I also missed that Wraith claimed Roleblocker and why the fuck would you RB LMD he was the counterwagon to scum

fullclaim, now. flavor? unlimited shots?

[hamfactorial]

Pie:

Why does Jack switching to a scum wagon clear him as town? Without devolving into a WIFOM mess, I can see that being a good play for an important scum role to gain town cred early.

[InflatablePie]

because he could just lurk back and force a NL, or worse a ML. town is in the same position tomorrow even if Jack is more suspected for it, which is bad for town.

it's not 100% cleared, but I'm trying really hard to PoE this.

[InflatablePie]

besides, with 3 confirmed town on the front end of the wagon, Jack is still in a bad spot for switching onto the fifth vote. scum might be a bit more wary if there's another option still open.

[hamfactorial]

Ok, that makes some sense, thanks.

I always assume that Wraith being Wraith makes him town since he's always acted like this in my games, and he was town there. You listing him in your scum pile makes me wonder. At the end of day 1, he was making a lot of noise about sticking with his vote in the face of pressure, then unexpectedly switched to the raspy wagon.

Am I remembering that right? I'll read backwards and try to find it, but the memory is strong.

[hamfactorial]

Ok, I found it. Here's the first part.

Yes. Strategic voting. Voting for you anyone other than LMD is now just voting no lynch.[/
quote]

Newb question: So, anyone not voting LMD become prime scum suspects?

Apparently.

If he roles town; the wagon riders should be grilled.

Is that why you won't vote him? Are you just afraid of being wrong?

You ask me a question and won't answer mine. sigh...It is a good question regardless.

My read on him is null. You guys are voting him without giving a reason for it. Show me a reason and I will consider it. That's all I ask. Same goes for RCW. I have been wrong many times (worst was in Durp mafia), but voting without a reason with a group is not how I play. In past games I have made this clear with saying I won't join bandwagons without evidence and/or demand votes for the creation of a wagon without first
revealing my evidence for that vote. That is how town should act as it creates a history for town to follow.

And here's the switch, 44 minutes later.

This is what InflateablePie started with to vote RCW:

I like Red's case (even if I think he's tunneling a bit) and the way he's trying to hunt for scum there... I don't like how he dodged the question in 500(502).

red is trying to contribute despite being at a high wagon close to deadline and he has a confirmable role you guys

even if he's scum we get info from his role unless you think he's Scum Not-Watcher fakeclaiming Watcher

can we find someone else to
lynch today

- Not liking rez's post 493 but I have to remember he's town soooooooooooo bleh
- Not liking Lord-M's 494 or general lurkiness after his pressure died down
- Not liking rcw in general.

vote rcw

red, hop on.

That's it? He asks questions next:

Why are you more suspicious of rcw rather than ham, though?

ham's self-awareness and attitude towards his lynch/wagon seemed townie.

why do you feel like hammering raspy is more urgent than voting ham?

already have a solid townread on ham. not-so-much with rcw.

@Pie: your vote is on me. Any questions for me?

/quick-iso

[url=http://diestoremoval.com/
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2548&p=215205#p215205]Here[/url] you clarify your hamvote was RVS. Why did that matter?
Here you ask Wraith to clarify why ham is hard to read. Why?
Here you ask about rez's reads on LMD and imopen. Why did you inquire about them and not CaptainMurphy and Ham?
Here you ask imopen and LMD about their reads. Why did you call them out specifically?
Here you say defensiveness is scummy. Why is being defensive scummy? Do you think a defensive attitude cannot come from a town PR?

Wow, I was gonna
say I didn't have any questions. Glad I did that.

Saw some other stuff in there too that's making me lean scum on ya, but I'll wait for your responses first.

Was that hard Jack and Red to post? Jeeez!

InflateablePie has really good questions. It's like RCW has no gut calls. He just votes the wagon and asks for reasons why? Huh, weird. Ignoring CM is very strange now I think about it. I was very specific why I though Ham was not a worth a vote as Rez admitted to little or no evidence for his vote. This is a psych call on RCW and putting off the response to said questions has been bothering me. InflateablePIe is playing the same to me in DTR mafia and pushed a bad lynch on the guy.

LMD has answered my questions and been active with his own thoughts ad questions. My gut says Rez and LMD are tunneling each other, thus I have doubt that he scum now. I need to make a board of facts to look at. Since a Jack and Red is not happening, and a no lynch is not an option;


unvote

vote RCW

I am putting big trust in InflateablePie's call here, but it seems he was on the trail of something.

@everyone, talking out the facts among each other helps town. Reposting the facts in a post can reveal hidden items in a new light. Please give reasons with votes. It helps me immensely to talk out the facts to get an understanding since I voted to lynch a guy for not answering questions. Damn good ones that is.

I didn't remember that he switched to a raspy vote in response to your ISO, which makes it much more reasonable.

[hamfactorial]

I read through the thread again, noticed some interesting things which I'll expand on tomorrow morning (from computer instead of phone).

Particularly, io2's extremely critical finger-pointing at rezombad before being killed night 1 and Suga's (now Dechs') completely random switch to voting raspy with an active Red wagon.

Vote Jack because he's still lurking hard.

[Mcdonalds]

right, Wraith mailed him.

I also missed that Wraith claimed Roleblocker and why the fuck would you RB LMD he was the counterwagon to scum

fullclaim, now. flavor? unlimited shots?

That was rezombad

I have no idea if he was telling the truth or not FTR

[Mcdonalds]

@Jack are you playing this game?

[Mcdonalds]

I'm down with voting wraith, I need to read jack again.

vote wraith

[Jack]

@Jack are you playing this game?

I'm still here, I just don't really have anything important to say at the moment.

[Mcdonalds]

Thats not good man

[Jack]

fullclaim, now. flavor? unlimited shots?

I don't like this.

[Jack]

alright so:
LMD was counterwagon to scum so he's clear

Could you explain this?

[RedNihilist]

almost forgot: who else sent mail to imopen btw? I'm too lazy to check back but I know someone did

right, Wraith mailed him.

I mailed him too, actually.

Pie:

Why does Jack switching to a scum wagon clear him as town?

In fact it doesn't.

--------------------------
Going to office, I'll be back with some actual content.

[Dechs Kaison]

I'm starting to get confused here. What the hell is everyone doing? Is Jack in the clear or not?

Ham, I'm pulling my vote off of you because I don't see you reacting to a couple votes the way I'd expect scum to react.

Unvote

Pie, it bothers me that you're trying to clear people that just doesn't feel right. You're also going back and forth a lot in those posts, correcting yourself. At best, it's impulsive and at worst it's intentional distractions (i.e. scummy). I'm going to go with impulsive because if I remember correctly, you actually started the shift in wagon over to Rcw. That's pretty vindicating. Maybe just settle down and think a lot more before you post because it's getting hard to know what to trust from you.

Red, please tell me you were being sarcastic when you jumped on LMD for saying "we." That's hardly a scum slip to say "we (as the town) need to
focus on <this evidence>."

-----

also: right now it's 8:2. ML would bring us to 6:2, then to 4:2. so we have ~3 chances to hit one scum, seems do-able.

Pie does make one excellent point here. We've got two solid mistakes before we even have to worry, so I'm going to suggest we just start lynching the lurkers. Worst case: we lynch a townie who hasn't been helping us out. Best case: we lynch the scum that's trying to hide. Even better, the policy will start pushing people to post more, helping us make some reads.

Who be lurking the most?

Vote Mogadishu Jones

He hasn't posted since the lynch. He wasn't here for 95% of that day. What he did post wasn't very helpful at all. His hammer could have been a bus to secure his town look. It's a safe lynch.

[Jack]

Pie is either definitely town (most likely) or just really, really good at looking like it. There's strong town mindset in pretty much everything he posts, and it's pretty much impossible to keep up a false mindset when posting stream-of-consciousness like that.

[Jack]

And no, that wasn't a scum slip on my end.

[Jack]

Pie is definitely the best player here, though. And he's been able to read me really well in the 3 games I've played with him (including this one).