[Primer] Boros Burn

[LaZerBurn]

Well done Z I hope you were recording

[zemanjaski]

Nah I'm sitting on this variant for a bit; got a 1K and 5K to hit up soon.

[DefeateR]

If my opponent reads this (I invited him here) thank you for a wonderfully exciting and difficult mirror match, it was the highlight of my day. Extremely well played, I needed everything I had to stay in it.

Good games.
I won my 4th round against GB Dredge, to end 3-1. Notably, game 2 he landed a turn 4 Whip of Erebos, which I managed to win through on the back of YP.

[zemanjaski]

>:)

[zemanjaski]

Legacy playable card is good in standard, I'm shocked.

[zemanjaski]

I hate dredge, play a real deck.

[zemanjaski]

Esper is the only acceptable deck choice for my opponents.

[zemanjaski]

I should write an article about how unbearable Esper is for no alterior motive.

[zemanjaski]

I can be one of those pros that says a deck has no bad matchups whatsoever.

[zemanjaski]

So, tuning points:
- 4 shock / 3 helix vs. 3 shock and 4 helix in the main
- 2 Guildgate, 3 Guildgate? Yes, I keep flip flopping
- Firedrinker vs Cackler
- burning earth in the SB?

Anything else?

[magicdownunder]

Dancer vs Mortar
Mortar vs Fated (fated is bad)
BO vs World
Searing Blood vs World
Chandra vs Bx and Control

I think that is all.

EDIT:

MD'ing Vault or SB'ing Vaults vs T1

[zemanjaski]

For me
Mortars
Mortars
SB only, down to only 1 copy and fine with that
Gone from my 75; Esper and MBC are top dogs and it's not good against either IMO.
I like her more than Burning Earth because she hits more matchups

I lost a final today because I conservatively led turn 1 mountain on the play game 1 (shock up); opp was UW control, was 2 dmg short of a kill. Magic can come down to the smallest margins of error.

[TptBahamut]

New user here... been lurking for about a week, and decided to finally register and thank everyone in this thread for the work they've done on this archetype. I had been playing block and won the LED, which I used to purchase Zem's last posted list (Although budgetized... can't afford vaults yet.) And I have to say, it's pretty incredible. I've played a few practice matches, and won 3 of the 4. I beat 5 color Nykthos Green, Esper, and Auras, and lost a close one to RB Aggro. Can't wait to start throwing down some 8-mans and hopefully win my way to the full version of the deck and the FoW this month.

And I agree with Zem, YP$ too strong. Beat a witchstalker with unflinching courage and ethereal armor with Boros Charm and YP$.

[magicdownunder]

(Z's tuning points)

So, tuning points:
- 4 shock / 3 helix vs. 3 shock and 4 helix in the main
- 2 Guildgate, 3 Guildgate? Yes, I keep flip flopping
- Firedrinker vs Cackler
- burning earth in the SB?

(MDU's thoughts)

4 shock / 3 helix is better then 3 / 4 helix with 23 lands, this is esp. true when you factor in discard.
2 gates vs 3 gate, I'm running 2x BO with my current list so I require at least 2x white sources so that 3x needed for me (obv. trying to go all in with many citpt lands hurt so with your current version 2 is enough)
Cackler is better right now, if Spectors see more play Drinkers are better (I'm running both)
BE is horrible.... just ran Chandra or something.

[Valdarith]

I don't think 4 maindeck Shock is where you want to be anymore. With GR on the decline and Esper rising you need higher impact cards in the latter matchup as well as the mirror. The fourth Helix maindeck would raise your percentages for Esper and the mirror fairly significantly. In fact I think it'd be best to go down to two Shock main and bring in the fourth Mutavault.

[zemanjaski]

I like how you think sir.

>:)

[zemanjaski]

But then I'd need more singletons for my SB....

[zemanjaski]

New user here... been lurking for about a week, and decided to finally register and thank everyone in this thread for the work they've done on this archetype. I had been playing block and won the LED, which I used to purchase Zem's last posted list (Although budgetized... can't afford vaults yet.) And I have to say, it's pretty incredible. I've played a few practice matches, and won 3 of the 4. I beat 5 color Nykthos Green, Esper, and Auras, and lost a close one to RB Aggro. Can't wait to start throwing down some 8-mans and hopefully win my way to the full version of the deck and the FoW this month.

And I agree with Zem, YP$ too strong. Beat a witchstalker with unflinching courage and ethereal armor with Boros Charm and YP$.

nWelcome, that's an amazing story. Keep it up and you'll get those vaults soon!

[Valdarith]

But then I'd need more singletons for my SB....

One Shock and one Chandra in the side.

[zemanjaski]

That'd be two Chandra. You suck at this.

[zemanjaski]

Nah probably get the second obedience and glare of heresy.

[Valdarith]

Well damn, I need to keep up!

Yeah, the second BO and Glare seems fine. With Esper having so many juicy postboard white targets like their own BO Glare seems great.

[zemanjaski]

Ash Zealot > Ash Zealot > Detention Sphere > Glare > extend hand

[zenbitz]

I can be one of those pros that says a deck has no bad matchups whatsoever.

"This deck is very well positioned in the current meta". /sayseveryone

[LaZerBurn]

Some great ideas here!

I'm with 3 Shock 4 Helix - no YP in my MD, Helix better in Mirror but I your 2 Shock 4 Muta/24 land idea Val It'll let me put Glare in my SB too
2 GG has been fine for me, even with 2 BO. I should run 3 really.
FDS - I prefer playing Control in the Mirror and every B deck I play runs Spectre, usually at least 2 of them
I thought BE was horrible in testing Z? I'd rather have Chandra too
Dancer over MM is tempting cos I Dancer
2 BO in SB for the Mirror
3 Searing Blood in MD - not great Vs Esper and B but not bad and sooo good overall,
especially in the Mirror

[NerdBoyWonder]

When playtesting, does anyone else tell there opponents what to take with thoughtseize?

My testing group yes. We do this for all the decks in our gauntlet and normally the person piloting the deck in the gauntlet is the person with the most experience with the deck.

It helps for later but does not necessarily give them the win or edge. Play tested games against mono black aggro who had the hand disrupt plan. Managed to win all games even after telling him what to duress or Thoughtseize because of other misplays on their end and lucky top decks on my end.

[Purp]

4-0 standard portion of invitational, 40th place out of 360 heading into day 2.

[zemanjaski]

>:)

Of course you went day 1 undefeated that's all the deck does.

[zemanjaski]

Update time!

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn as at 4:05pm on 29-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Cackler
1 Spark Trooper
1 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

[BlakLanner]

While I screwed up in my last round and ended up taking 3rd where I should have won the whole thing, I found it hilarious watching all the Esper players putting Drown in Sorrow in their main decks before the tournament to deal with "That god damn burn player that keeps winning" while glaring at me.

[zemanjaski]

Are they retarded? That's not even good against Burn.

[BlakLanner]

I think they wanted to just repeatedly board wipe with it since it kills every creature I have. I didn't end up playing against any of them. I just found it hilarious that people were adding cards to fight one player in the room and it happened to be me.

[Elricity]

Quicky FNM report while I am in an 8 man queue. Didn't get to play enough tonight for my tastes. First 8 man fast wins vs rb aggro. He got land screwed and then land flooded.

Z's deck except -1 spark trooper for +1 blind obedience. There's only one gruul player there and it's my friend and his deck isn't traditional so I hedged for the more universal card.

Match 1 vs Brandon with GW token agro. The usual concept.

Game 1, he gets an early voice, I get an early YP and we're about even on the race. I attack into a knight token and voice with muta/elemental/YP with boros charm in hand and he is representing no advent. He didn't want to trade the knight for muta so after indestructible, he traded his voice for an elemental token.I slot into control using YP and friends to trade with as much as I could and snuck in attacks with ashley and a phoenix until I burned him out with extra cracks and charms.

-1 shock (
only target was experiment 1 game 1, turns out he had boon satyr too), -4 crack, 4 charm, +2 mortar, 1 of's of glare, chandra, helix, vault, chain, yp, and assemble. Kept toying around with whether I should keep that extra shock.

Game 2, mull away mountain, vault, chain, shock, YP, and strike for a more balanced hand. He lands an early brimaz, I land early YP. I try to burn it out with strike/shock but he responds with rootborn. Tokens trade with Brimaz, he plays another, and I don't have enough to stop it.

Game 3, I keep a 2 land hand with magma jet intent on scrying away anything that isn't a land...and then scry reveals my singleton glare so I keep it. Next turn he lands fiendslayer. Heh. Anyway, stuck on two lands, I have a voice beating me down while I desperately try and hit land 4 with YP playing defense. I finally hit land 4 and Helix helps me stabilize, Chandra herself slowly ticks up while he floods. He scoops as I threaten ultimate though I think I had him in hand or in creatures.

nMatch 2 vs Ken with Rw devotion:

Game 1, he never hits white mana with charms and helixes in hand. Judge has to explain to him trigger rule with YP vs killing it in response. No biggy. That token did 3 damage . Although he does 9 damage with searing bloods, helix helps me stabilize. He plays a reckoner right at the end which tells me I'm control for the match.

-1 ashley, -4 crack, -4 charm, +2 BlOb, 2 mortar, 1 helix, 1 yp, chain, vault, and chandra

Game 2 we both hit land 4 quickly. He's slightly flooding and showing no creatures. Early reckoner dies to lightning strike. I play a YP, it dies leaving behind 2 tokens from 2 shock. Those 2 tokens proceed to do 8 damage to him over the course of the game. In the middle of that, we start playing helix wars. He plays SBD, dies to mortars immediately. I helix a reckoner, he redirects it to me. He helixes me, I helix him back. He keeps trying to get me to
lethal burn while I just keep holding up mana for a 3rd helix and poking at him with tokens. If I wasn't patient, I would have lost instantly.

Sidebar, just crushed mono blue match 2 in the 8 man. Misplay when I should have shocked his tidebinder before thassa came online because he cast rapid hybridize on thassa for a free token in response. Didn't matter but I realized it was a mistake right after I passed priority with thassa on stack. I just split and gave him the QP. Like I'm grinding those.

So, back to match 3 of the FNM while I wait for another queue.

Match 3 vs Brady with GW

He plays boon satyrs, mana dorks, etc and such end of my turn which instantly die to jets and shocks and such. He lands a bow mid game which is a bit weird in my eyes. Then near the end of the game he lands...witch stalker. I burn him out in a panic in response to final bow activation. So....make that hexproof. I think I board out 3 charm, 3 ashley for muta, glare, yp, helix, and 2 mortars.

Just did another 8
man, lost to jund when hits ruric thar and i had to go to 3 to remove it and a dragon who he almost monsteroused. He followed up with poly and a big ooze even though I got my chain.

So, game 2 he goes gladecover, ethereal armor, bow and then ajani.

Game 3, I decide to go for hate. +4 cacklers, glare, yp, muta, -3 helix, -2 chain, -1 shock, -1 charm. Turn 1, cackler/ elf. Turn 2, YP/ ethereal armor, turn 3, jet, cackler/etheral armor. Turn 4, 2 cackler/yp/elemental/vault for 9 getting him to 8 while I force myself to keep a glare while I don't have white mana. Turn 4, 2 more ethereal armor for 15.

Game store own makes announcment that there aren't enough people to cut to top 8 so he's cutting to top 4. I assume that means I'm out until standings post showing me in 3rd. Go fig.

Match 4 vs Cory: U devotion with esper lands

I ask after the match and he said he had all the esper shock lands so he could cast nightveil. I originally read him on Uw devotion.

Game 1, the only damage I take is
from my own land and I just wave crush him down with ash zealots, phoenixes, and vaults as he durdles to turn 3 thassa.

-4 charm, -4 crack, +2 mortar, glare(which ended up having no targets but i never drew it), chandra, vault, chain, YP, helix

Game 2 he starts off stuck with 1 island and a vault but my hand is land flood, mortars, strike, and a phoenix. I let the bird beat on me as he gets a second island and follows with frostburn. I finally get aggressive with my single phoenix and vault as I flood to 8 lands between hand and play. He is clearly stuck on 3 lands wanting to hit 4 as he gets a second frostburn when I'm at 5 lands. Strike the bird end of turn, overload mortars on my turn, and he flashes 2 masters, domestication, and nightveil.

Since Brady with hexproof also made it to top 4, I split and leave. Onto 3rd 8 man game now. Up 3 tickets. I'll catch up on the thread as I can.

[Elricity]

Wow, I'm playing again and game 1 mono black, 10 lands, 4 spells. 2 of which siezed.
Game 2, I get assemble out, he goes on packrat, I landflood and can't keep them down, he bile blights my tokens twice for the win. Ouch. He almost deserved it after not duressing it out of my opening hand.

That said, I really should just buy the 4 mutavaults.

[Jediace42]

I have to say, I had a slightly bad time tonight at FNM, faced 3 b/w opponents and more whips of erebos than id care to ever see in my life combined with obzedat and bbov.... I hate my life haha, still managed a 3-2 record though, got lucky in one of the b/w matchups... Is there something Im just missing here or are they just a terrible terrible matchup for us?

[Elricity]

Find space for a singleton Glare of Heresy, it has been good for me so far.

I agree with Z. My singleton was extremely handy twice tonight.

[Elricity]

I should write an article about how unbearable Esper is for no alterior motive.

People at the card shop were saying how Esper beats burn. I was genuinely confused on how.

[DXI-Edge]

Jesus chist I go play some modern and drink some beer, I come back the thread explodes....

Ok, so here is why I dont like some of the cards in the board: WHAT THE HELL DO WE CUT.

For example, taking my list

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

2 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Spark Trooper
1 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

I'm going as follows:

Esper
-2 Chained to the Rocks
-4 Shock
+4 Rakdos Cackler
+1 Young Pyromancer
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Mono-Black
-4 Shock
+2 Chained
+1 Assemble
+1 Young Pyromancer

Monsters
-4 Ash Zealot
-4 Skullcrack
+2 Blind Obedience
+2
Chained to the Rocks
+2 Spark Trooper
+2 Mizzium Mortars

Mirror
-4 Boros Charm
-4 Skullcrack
+1 Young Pyromancer
+4 Rakdos Cackler
+2 Blind Obedience
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster
(are we cutting 2 shocks for 2 Chained?)

vs Mono-Blue
-4 Ash Zealot
-4 Skullcrack
+2 Spark Trooper
+2 Chained to the Rocks
+2 Mizzium Mortars
+1 Young Pyromancer
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster

like, I dont know where there is room for Glares in the control matchup and mutavaults in the mirror, control, black match ups

[Elricity]

DXI, that seems reasonable but if you know your opponent is probably on the creature plan, probably add 1 blind obedience for Obzedat or maybe that Blood baron trying to chump. Only 1. Cut a helix for it probably. And probably bring in 1 mortar. Honestly I'm in favor of a single chain only if you're suspecting thune or fiendslayer and you don't need it for just fiendslayer.

Mono black on play, -4 jets, +4 cackler. On the draw, sure.

Monsters, cut boros charm instead I would think. Jund you keep it in and cut ash. They don't always get a carytid and even if they do, you kinda have to agro them.

Mirror is tricky. Vs the normal searing blood, cut ashley, heavy burn control build? Yes, that is correct I think on either play or draw. You only want 2 chain because they'll only have 4 phoenixes and that's about the right number when that's all you're aiming for. Now if it's against Z's plan? Skip the cacklers,
bring in 2 mortar and 2 chain, and choose to draw first. That last part is untested but feels very right.

Mono blue you have correct.

There's room to fit a glare or two if you change the sideboard up. Yours isn't wrong, just different. In my case, I just tested the single glare and it was very valuable.

So, for varience, I crushed my first 8 man...and then I'm mulliganing and land flooding my next 2 8 man and this DE. I did go dumb on my mono u matchup and miss a token chance by shocking a bird before YP came in the next turn and that might have cost me the match although I did end up with 7 lands and he dsphered my key chain on his thassa with him at no cards. Game 1 was worse, I got him low off 6 spells and 8 lands before he got ephara and thassa active. Shrug, story of my night. Time to finish the DE and sleep before I tilt.

[Elricity]

Are they retarded? That's not even good against Burn.

But...but...it can two for 1! It's like 15 for 1 vs all these tokens!

Nevermind that it's a sorcery. Just forget all that.

Bile blight is the uglier spell if your hand evolves a certain way.

Also hope you're doing better in this DE than I am Z.