[Primer] Boros Burn

[JohnnyfnB]

Alternatively, could be a singleton Wear // Tear.

If you do that, why not a Revoke Existence? I know it's sorcery speed, but it also can take care of a pesky God if needed?

[Staind Diablo]

Do you find that you need the Firedrinkers? I have played WAY less matches with this deck than you, but so far I have trounced UW control and Esper fairly soundly without the Firedrinkers. What do you think of Firedancers and Mortars in the sb, and cutting the Firedrinkers? What other matchups do you really like Firedrinker out of the board?

[zemanjaski]

Alternatively, could be a singleton Wear // Tear.

If you do that, why not a Revoke Existence? I know it's sorcery speed, but it also can take care of a pesky God if needed?

I don't really need to kill any of the gods, but blowing up a Whip of Erobos or Detention Sphere at instant speed is a big game.

[DXI-Edge]

Zeman what about cutting a shock, going to 3 chained main, cutting the 4th firedancer and going to 2 mizzium mortars side

[zemanjaski]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=203352#p203352:1x4m706c]Staind Diablo » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:54 am[/url:1x4m706c]":1x4m706c]Do you find that you need the Firedrinkers? I have played WAY less matches with this deck than you, but so far I have trounced UW control and Esper fairly soundly without the Firedrinkers. What do you think of Firedancers and Mortars in the sb, and cutting the Firedrinkers? What other matchups do you really like Firedrinker out of the board?[/quote:1x4m706c]

They're only for control. I appreciate you won't face a lot of control in every metagame, but at least for me, I face a lot of it, and even more in paper, so the Firedrinkers are staying. I know that the matchups are god without them, but when they're matches you NEED to win, I don't mind playing 4 cards that bring the matchup from 55% to 65%.

[zemanjaski]

Zeman what about cutting a shock, going to 3 chained main, cutting the 4th firedancer and going to 2 mizzium mortars side

[zemanjaski]

I haven't got time to cast multiple Firedancer's anyway.

[zemanjaski]

That gives me: 2 Blind Obedience, 1 Chained, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 3 Satyr Firedancer for 4 Ash Zealot, 4 Skullcrack against GR / Mono U which is pretty nice.

[DXI-Edge]

Seems legit!

[zemanjaski]

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn as at 10:56am 13-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
2 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
3 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Mana base is 20 red sources (yay!) and 11 white sources (yay!), which means we now meet Frank Karsten's requirements, even if we might have some sequencing issues; still better to cast spells a turn behind than not at all!

Something MJ told me, that I really took to heart, is that good aggro decks
usually aren't just a pile of 4-ofs. Sure, the best cards will be, but the rest will be very carefully selected and if you look at the list, we have 2s and 3s to go with the 4s and I really think you can see the enormous amount of work that has gone in to refining the deck.

[DXI-Edge]

My only issue now is the 3 Chained to the Rocks game 1 vs. Control

because its such a prominent matchup, could the 3 chains switch with the 3 firedancers?

Similar cards in most matchups, except against control swings for 1

[Jonnymagic]

Been doing the 3 muta 3 guildgates in 3 8 mans today -- have only had to mull once. Manabase feels a bit better -- although more skill in sequencing, but that's ok.

[zemanjaski]

My only issue now is the 3 Chained to the Rocks game 1 vs. Control

because its such a prominent matchup, could the 3 chains switch with the 3 firedancers?

Similar cards in most matchups, except against control swings for 1

Funny how we're going full circle (I originally had 3 Firedancer main, 4 Chained in the board for the same reasons).

Speaking personally, online, MBC is THE DECK. Infact, if we take out UWx Control from the meta, I would be left with 88% of the meta where 3 Chains is fine.

Now, playing paper is a different creature altogether, so it may be that the Firedancers in the main are just better IRL.

[LaZerBurn]

Alternatively, could be a singleton Wear // Tear.

I like this, I'm seeing lot more Whips on MTGO.

I'm at 73/75 -2 Mizzium +2 Spark cos I love the blow outs

[zemanjaski]

I have no idea how bad it must feel getting hit by Spark Trooper.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I thought we were off firedancer... Why are we going back?

Also, I <3 Spark Trooper. I'm not sure I want to lose him...

[zemanjaski]

I am probably over complicating things at the moment. Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Zem?

[Jonnymagic]

Sparkie is too good. The u/w devotion is gaining some traction (despite pardee saying it's "a pile"), and its soooo good in the matchups its good in. The new one I'm having a bit more trouble with is the new mono b splash red. They have 63409856734095876 removal spells and just try to stick a demon. It's a pretty tough matchup g1, and not a cakewalk post board either. I can't tell if they play merchant or not, so I can't tell if we can cut the skullcrack yet. In the land base news, I've only mulled one time today in a bunch ofmatches, and won 2 8mans and chopped another. I entered another and got rocked by that r/b deck. @zem -- what about keening apparition if you want to get rid of enchantments? You can leave it on board as a target for removal, and in response sack it to destroy whatever you need. Applies pressure, can get whip/sphere, and could also be a discard for opponent that eventually tries to kill
it.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@BR Haven't played ir, but in theory, couldn't we just board out ash zealot and invalidate their deck then? If they tapout for demon, spark trooper em. If is connects or trades you're ok with it. I don't know. Removal heavy deck sounds ok to me.

[Jonnymagic]

In theory, yes. Wed have to have sparkie when they tap out, but the pilot left up mana every turn so i could never play him.

[tzir]

Have been reading the thread for a few days, finally signed up. Thank you, zem!

what about keening apparition if you want to get rid of enchantments? You can leave it on board as a target for removal, and in response sack it to destroy whatever you need.

I feel like this might be getting too cute, but I could be wrong; worst case, it's still a 2/2 for 2 and a creature your opponent probably isn't taking seriously, which is a legitimate advantage (hello, Viashino Firstblade...). "Before combat, sacrifice to destroy Hammer of Purphoros" or "block, sacrifice before damage to destroy Whip of Erebos" are lines that make it tempting, as well as the .001% play of "in response to the Detention Sphere trigger, sacrifice to
destroy Detention Sphere, sorry about your devotion!"

[imopen2]

I think you always need to be tweaking based on metagame. there is no singularly perfect list. but, if you are consistently seeing good results, you don't need to make wholesale changes like going back to firedancer or w/e

[zemanjaski]

What relevant enchantments are there beyond Whip? We already have Blind Obedience to neuter that.

Welcome aboard tzir!

[zemanjaski]

@ imopen2; yeah, I just get excited to search for every possible edge. I am winning more and more every day (having gone from 59% two weeks ago, to 61% and now 63%) so I should just keep doing what I am doing.

FWIW, a 63% mtgo win rate is absurd.

[Jonnymagic]

Idk, it might be -- but doesnt it do the same thing as wear/tear except its on a body? You can still do it at instant speed, and eventually I feel they will want to kill it OR you can block/sac. The pet card I've been trying out is wild ricochet as a one of in the s/b. I pulled 1 shock for 1 chains, and put wild ricochet in place of that. So far, I have stolen a divination (yay 4 cards) and redirected a sphinxs. If nothing else, its a wonderful card to piss your opponents off with. LOL. @zem, sphere, hammer, and bow. I've started to see A LOT more r/g s/b that card now.

[tzir]

Idk, it might be -- but doesnt it do the same thing as wear/tear except its on a body?

Is the body on Apparition important enough to make up for the fact that your opponent will often be more able to play around it than to play around Wear/Tear? I feel like, in the matches we'd want enchantment removal, it may not be.

[zemanjaski]

Well, Hammer of Purphoros and Whip of Erobos both lose to Blind Obedience pretty badly. Bow of Nylea is a beating, but I can't see myself making sacrifices in my working sideboard strategies to include narrow 1-of answers. It's only a 1-of in their deck too.

[zemanjaski]

So who wants me to record a premier event this weekend?

[imopen2]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=203418#p203418:cgjmnt9w]Jonnymagic » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:48 am[/url:cgjmnt9w]":cgjmnt9w]Idk, it might be -- but doesnt it do the same thing as wear/tear except its on a body? You can still do it at instant speed, and eventually I feel they will want to kill it OR you can block/sac. The pet card I've been trying out is wild ricochet as a one of in the s/b. I pulled 1 shock for 1 chains, and put wild ricochet in place of that. So far, I have stolen a divination (yay 4 cards) and redirected a sphinxs. If nothing else, its a wonderful card to piss your opponents off with. LOL. @zem, sphere, hammer, and bow. I've started to see A LOT more r/g s/b that card now.[/quote:cgjmnt9w]

How many games sample do you have using it? Did you play it every game you drew it or was it sometime sitting dead in your hand?

[Jonnymagic]

I've played it in 8 games now. Every time I've drawn it I've played it and it's been a blowout because they don't expect it at all. They expect the skullcrack, so i skullcrack, let them counter, and then wild ricochet the spell theyve tried to protect. Or use it on divination and steal the card advantage.

[zemanjaski]

4 mana counter target spell, draw 4 is pretty brutal. It is probably too narrow, but I love the idea.

[zemanjaski]

I don't like the artwork.

[magicdownunder]

I don't like the artwork.

I'm using for same reason.

[BrainsickHater]

Been really enjoying this thread.

About Wild Ricochet: this card could actually be good. Our deck plays mostly at instant speed, it's not much of a cost to leave up the four mana every turn. And this card is a blowout against every control deck. Obviously countering a Sphinx's Rev or a Divination and reaping double benefits is insane, but it opens up huge two-for-one or even three-for-one potential when we Ricochet removal spells. I know I'm just way more excited about this than is humanly reasonable, as this card is insanely narrow, but I desperately want to believe that against control there will be enough situations where the spell has a huge impact. Also, I think one of the huge benefits to this card is that if your opponent sees it once, they'll be scared of it for the rest of the match. Being able to bluff Wild Ricochet is huge game.

[BlakLanner]

The only Mountains that I will ever need. There is a reason I am Tier -1 after all.

[Jonnymagic]

I tested it out some more in the no ticket ones just to jam it into matches. I played with it every game, stole 2 divinations, stole a warleader's helix in the mirror (VALUETOWN), and also redirected a hero's downfall vs mono black to a demon. I might be crazy, but im starting to dig this card. I don't think you can have more than 1, because 2 seems bad -- but man its been a fun card to use. Only dead matchups would be mono u, u/w devotion, and g/r monsters. Sure its dead in the small creature matches, but we're good at those anyway. I feel its another live card vs b/w control too because we can redirect a kill spell at their baron or ghostdaddy. I haven't gotten to try it in that matchup yet though.

[zemanjaski]

I am going to have to hunt one down for paper testing tonight. I do love me some IRL trolling.

[Jonnymagic]

I mean honestly, I feel it just can't be a dead card vs matchups that use spells. As a one of, you'll never have two in your hand, which seems really bad. I made space for it by cutting a shock and putting another chains main. So I'm running the same list with the changes of 3 muta 3 guildgates, 3 chains, 2 shocks, and 1 wild ricochet in the s/b. I got 6 QPs tonight, which is my best for one night ever. Felt better today with the deck than I have previously.

[dejection]

zem: games lab/good games melbourne? ill be in the city tonight probably

[Guttler]

Funny story is that I actually would of never played red in Theros standard if I didn't have these Shocks. I was playing G/W Aggro and said to myself "If I find all 4 of my stronghold shocks I'll switch to red." I wewnt through my card box once and found 2, then I went through it again the next day and found the other 2 and since that moment I have been on the one true path to victory.