Mono Black Aggro

[LP, of the Fires]

Well, seeing as that's 58 cards you have listed...

[dpaine88]

Guy seems like a dickhead to me.

First article I read of the dude, why does he seem like a dickhead?

[dpaine88]

Well, seeing as that's 58 cards you have listed...

MIssing two are 2 Swamp...they are running 24 land J-S

[redthirst]

BBD's list (list on the site is wrong):

[deck= BBD's Test Deck]Creatures (28)
4 Desecration Demon
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pack Rat
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (22)
16 Swamp
4 Mutavault
2 Temple of Silence

Spells (8)
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Ultimate Price
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Dark Betrayal
4 Doom Blade
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Duress[/deck]

So, -2 Temple, +4 Swamp and I like this list a lot. Like a lot.

[dpaine88]

The more I think about Thrill-Kill Assasin, the more I like it. Pain Seer has been fine but it could be better. Maybe the excitement of it being a new card took over.

Lets look at what Thrill Kill is good against. Obviously it kills everything with deathtouch but lets look at some specific ones.

-Sylvan Caratid - very good against this card which normally blacks all our 2 power guys
- Courser of Krufix - Kill this guy and doesn't even trade with it, so basically unblockable vs him
- Grey Merchant - Again, kills this guy and doesn't die
- Frostburn weird - pretty decent again as they must invest mana into it to trade
Nightviel Spectre- trades with it which most of our early guys don't

So just a few things off the top of my head. Pain Seer just hasnt been that crazy for me...

[dpaine88]

Redthirst!!! Good to have you aboard bro. This deck is fuckin awesome.

[Pedros]

BBD's list (list on the site is wrong):

[deck= BBD's Test Deck]Creatures (28)
4 Desecration Demon
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pack Rat
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (22)
16 Swamp
4 Mutavault
2 Temple of Silence

Spells (8)
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Ultimate Price
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)
2 Thoughtseize
3 Dark Betrayal
4 Doom Blade
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Duress[/deck]

So, -2 Temple, +4 Swamp and I like this list a lot. Like a lot.

Might try this
out today in 8 man. Deck Looks sweet. How would you sb?

vs Mono Black:

-4 lifebane
-1 thoughtseize
+3 Dark Betrayal
+2 Erebos

Or we sb out desecration demons (I sb out 1 when I played this deck pre btg) and leave seizes?

Vs UW:

+2 Seizes
+4 Duress
+2 Erebos

- 3 Ultimate Price
- 5 more cards? Demons and lands? Dont want to sb out downfalls as they play creature plan post board. Pack Rats?

Vs RG Monsters:

+4 Doom Blade
+2 Seizes

Vs Mono Blue:

+4 Doom Blade
- what?

[dpaine88]

Pedros, can you offer any input into THrill Kill vs Pain Seer?

[Pedros]

Pedros, can you offer any input into THrill Kill vs Pain Seer?

Thrill kill was very good vs everything that wasnt UW. Especially awsome vs black as they run 4 pharicas cure. Traded with everything and played defense quite good.

However Pain Seer gives you card advantage while playing vs UW, black and monsters. Often you can swing safety into caryatid or so to get additional card. Vs Black it is must answer threat.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Yeah, sorry, I missed the BBD added two swamps.

I went 1-2 at FNM. Beat Mono Black, lost to GW aggro and RB Aggro that side boarded into control.

Desecration Demon was terrible for me. It cost me two games where if it was Marauder, I would have won.

I'm putting the deck down for a while. My meta has shifted and everyone is running aggro. Seems like a bad time to be running suicide black. I'll come back to it whaen everyone moves back to control.

Running Zem's 75 for Game Day.

[dpaine88]

@ Pedros --Yeah, just so far he has not been anything special for me. I can say though that the rate of times I get Pain Seer and Pack Rat in my opener is extremely high so that could be it, but still.

You think Pain Seer is good vs G/R Monsters? It honestly seemed pretty bad to me... I found the situations to be somewhat racey and sometimes Pain Seer is a liability along with Herald and such.

I have yet to play with TKA this season-- is it possible it could be better than Pain Seer?


@JS - so you played a Midrange deck, a slower aggro deck, and a control deck -- but putting the deck down cause aggro is all over? Doesn't make sense. No one said you had to play Demon.

How did you lose to G/W Aggro? It seems very easy with Demon, Lifebane, Herald and Doom blades out of the sideboard...

I don't see how G/W beats G/R so I doubt it is much to worry about anyways.

My meta closely follows the general meta as I
play with mostly PTQ grinders and such , not much aggro around at all to be honest.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I know GW should be a cakewalk, especially post sb, but the guy is a top deck hero, not sure what else to say.

[Lightning_Dolt]

As I looked around the other tables, about 80% of people were playing some flavour of aggro. 20% midrange. No control.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I wanted to try demon since others were having success, I just wasn't a fan.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I have two pro's at my store, and five people that day two'd the last GP (including me) and a national team member. Our store is very strong, but they give zero fucks about the American meta. JP players love to brew.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I did learn something interesting though. If Herald of Torment (or any other bestow creature) is Bestowed and the creature dies, it becomes a creature and is NOT subject to summoning sickness. You can swing right away.

[dpaine88]

This deck certainly isnt very good against aggro since it does so much damage to itself and doesn't defend well. All you can do is adapt to your meta.

This deck is much better vs Midrange n Control.

Could you elaborate on your dissapointment with Demon'?

[mutantcrock]

I like Thrill-Kill better in this deck than Pain Seer. TK is a much better top deck both offensively and defensively. Pain Seer has gotten me cards without a doubt but the curve just doesn't seem low enough to do much with all the extra cards. I frequently just don't have the mana to cast multiple spells.

[Lightning_Dolt]

VS Mono Black

G2: He sacced a mutavault and swung for lethal with rats.

VS GW

G2: He topped an Experiment One, tapped it down, swung lethal. I would have had him the next turn.

VS Rakdos

G1: Opponent at two with an empty board and no cards in hand demon does nothing the turn it enters, so I die.

G2: At four life, (opponent at two) and flip DD with Pain Seer for the seppuku.

All night I was thinking, if only this was [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card] lol.

[RedNihilist]

I did learn something interesting though. If Herald of Torment (or any other bestow creature) is Bestowed and the creature dies, it becomes a creature and is NOT subject to summoning sickness. You can swing right away.

Of course, as long as you control the permanent from previous turns.
It's the same as Mutavaults being able to swing even if you don't own them in their creature form since the beginning of your turn, doesn't it?

[RedNihilist]

Also, I'm with you in preferring Marauder over DD.
Never tried Thrill-Kill but Pain Seer seemed sweet to me.

In the next days I'm going to test out a more control oriented build, but this deck has potential.
I'd never go under 4 Thoughtseize, though.

[Lightning_Dolt]

For the record, I acknowledge this was just really bad luck.

[dpaine88]

For the record, I acknowledge this was just really bad luck.

And very precise circumstances. I urge you to give him a little more thought and experience. He's such a nice demon

I really did like having 4 TS, 4 Downfall, 4 UP but I really like DD and have no idea what else could possibly be cut.

Maybe just go to 23 lands? 24 seems high in this deck but with 4 mutavault and rats/demons maybe not

[Pedros]

For the record, I acknowledge this was just really bad luck.

And very precise circumstances. I urge you to give him a little more thought and experience. He's such a nice demon

I really did like having 4 TS, 4 Downfall, 4 UP but I really like DD and have no idea what else could possibly be cut.

Maybe just go to 23 lands? 24 seems high in this deck but with 4 mutavault and rats/demons maybe not

I like the idea of 2 demons md with 23 lands and possiblity of 1 swamp / 2 demons
in sb. That way we can play all 12 spells.

This deck is really bad in agro meta. As I said in my pre btg grind I had only won 5% vs red agressive creature / burn decks.

As for Pain Seer. Thrill - Kill assassin is good in different way that Pain Seer. Thrill Kill is better in RG Monsters and Mono-Blue base metagame, Pain Seer in UW Based metagame. Vs Black card advantage is important and you can easily swing with him, however Thrill Kill is better as it doesnt need support.

[Lightning_Dolt]

For the record, I acknowledge this was just really bad luck.

And very precise circumstances. I urge you to give him a little more thought and experience. He's such a nice demon

I really did like having 4 TS, 4 Downfall, 4 UP but I really like DD and have no idea what else could possibly be cut.

Maybe just go to 23 lands? 24 seems high in this deck but with 4 mutavault and rats/demons maybe not

It's just not a good meta choice for me right now. I'll come back to it when I
think the coast is clear.

[dpaine88]

Yup, you know your meta better than us and if mine was like you described, I wouldn't play this deck.

@Pedros - I think for 23 land we need to cut a card as the list I was running and posting about has 2 Demon on 22 land and 23rd in the sideboard.

I am a bit conflicted with Pain Seer vs TKA becuase my meta is heavy on R/G Monsters and Mono Black Devotion...

I personally like having all 12 spells-- but man Demon is good...tough decisions..

[dpaine88]

So I watched the whole BBD vs CVM Mono Black Aggro vs Jund Monsters.

At the end, BBD basically says that right now he thinks TKA is better than Pain Seer.

I'm gonna roll with TKA over Pain seer for Game Day.

Still undecided with

2 thoughtsieze
1 Downfall
1 Ultimate price

or

2 Demon

2 Land

[NoWz]

This is what I ran at my local FNM today:

[deck]Mono-Black Aggro
NoWzz
FNM

Creatures (27)
3 Desecration Demon
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (23)
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells (10)
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price

Sideboard (15)
1 Thoughtseize
2 BileBlight
4 Doom Blade
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Duress[/deck]


Went 5-0 in Game Wins.. and then lost 2.. to go 2 / 1 T_T

Games I lost was against Blood Baron and Obszedat madness.
I think if Blood Baron gets more popular again we need Devour Flesh.

What you guys think about sideboarding?
My last Opponent played some White / Black / Red mix with Boros Reckoners, Stormbreath Dragon, Assemble the Legions, Anger of Gods, Whip of Erebos, Obszedat, Blood Baron, Read the Bones..
Totally random somehow.. How would you board against
that?
I took out most of the one drops for Doom Blade, Duress and Bile Blight against Assemble..
but I think i should keep the one drops or? and board in the Erebos? against lifegain from bloodbaron + obszedat?

Reason for the list is
+1 land -> run 3 demons instead of 4.. 4 demons better 24 lands.
-2 scry lands.. -> I dont wanna scry in my aggro deck

I like the Hero's downfall 4 times because it deals with everything.
For the gameday I am not sure about Thrill Kill against Pain Seer.. Pain Seer is pretty good when its active though.

[dpaine88]

Funny you post that, I was just playing around with how to get the best of both with 3 Demon and 23 lands.

I usually only take out my 1-drops against creature heavy decks, where they matchup poorly. Against decks that don't do much in the early turns, I would certainly keep them in. You need some pressure. Force them to have Anger.

I would bring in Erebos, Duress and Thoughtseize. Doom Blade seems shitty vs Baron and Obzedat. Probably take out Ultimate Price and maybbe some Pack Rat.

I think you are playing to reactive to Assemble, that card shouldn't be very effective against you since its really turn 8 when it gets going and you have flyers/intimidate guys.

[NoWz]

Thanks for your opinion
Yea.. I def. sideboarded wrong against him...

But thats how we learn!
On 8th of March I am going to play in a PTQ in Praque.. deciding between this deck, mono black devotion and RW Burn.
I dunno how good we can make this one.. what you think about the mogis haste intimidate guy? just not good enough or?

[dpaine88]

I played with him but didnt miss him for a second once I stopped.

He is better in a suicide deck where you just flood the board with 1-2 drops. This deck operates different and tries to control the board/opp hand. It isn't that effective.

Also, Lifebane and Herald have evasion so he isnt as effective as you'd think

[NoWz]

alright I am trying out thrill kill a bit on mtgo then thanks for your help.

[NoWz]

Playing the Standard Daily going right now.
1-0 First Match against MBD

Playing same deck except 4 times thrill instead of Pain Seer

Edit: 1-1 MBD again -_-

Edit (2): went out the daily with 1-2.. but won a 5-3-2-2 afterwards with Pain Seer added again

[Aodh]

I got third at a 50-person FNM with MBA.

[deck]Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Herald of Torment

Spells
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
1 Duress

Lands
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Sideboard
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Duress
1 Gift of Orzhova
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Far // Away
4 Doom Blade
2 Dark Betrayal
[/deck]

5-1-1 in swiss.

2-0 vs. Gu Devotion; 2-1 vs. MBD; 2-1 vs. MUDw; 0-2 vs. Jund Midrange (bad judge ruling G1); 2-0 vs. MBD; 2-0 vs. RW Devotion (ID).

2-0 vs. MBA; 0-2 vs. MBD.

Deck is sick.

[dpaine88]

Good Job man!!

I went to Game Day, 32 people, cut to top4---- split top 4 cash and then lost playing it out for the playmat to my good friend playing R/W Devotion. Flooded hard game 3 and it wasnt a game at all.

I ran a build with 4 Demon, 2 Pack Rat. Swear to god I saw more Rats than Demons on the day lmao.




Rnd 1- Draw vs G/R devotion(more nykthos/voyaging satyr)...kept hand with 3 land 2 demon --didnt hit 4th land till turn 8 or 9 and ended in a draw.

Round 2 -2-0 Win vs G/R monsters

Round 3- 2-0 Win vs Red Devotion - terrible pilot..some dudes G/f

Round 4 - 2-0 WIn vs R/W Devotion -- win it fair n square but it was my buddy I went with and he was 3-0 so we agreed he would scoop to me no matter what so we were both alive. Good friend.

Round 5 - 2-1 Win vs G/W aggro ---- This guy was only undefeated and a familiar opponent but he wouldn't scoop to me so we could both be in,, wouldnt believe
us there was no way he wasnt in.

He plays slow as all hell and I finally lose a very long game 1. We go into Game 2 with just 8 minutes left. I win quick as fuck game 2. Game 3 win quick as fuck again.

Top4 - play my buddy again against R/W devotion -- flooded hard game 3 after keeping a 4 lander and drawing 3 more straight.




Will post list but ran 24 land , 61 total cards, 4 demon, 2 packrat and only 3 TS.

[redthirst]

Picked up a playset of the promo Seers at Games Day, so it looks like I'll be trying out the deck:

[deck]
Creatures: 28
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pack Rat
4 Pain Seer
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Herald of Torment
4 Desecration Demon

Lands: 23
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells 9
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price
3 Hero's Downfall
[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

Thrill-Kill vs. Pain Seer. Do we have SB room to put one MD and the other in the side? I'd probably main Pain Seer as he gains so much advantage if not dealt with or outclassed, and bring in Thrill-Kill against matchups where the opponent is going bigger - G/R/x builds. But I'm not sure if there's really SB room for it. We still want Dark Betrayals, Doom Blades, Duress, and Erebos in there. Maybe Thrill-Kill can take the spot of the anti-aggro cards? I think most people run some number of either Pharika's Cure or Whip or Gift of Orzhova to combat aggro. Maybe Thrill Kill can take those slots?

[redthirst]

I like Thrill-Kill in the SB. Not only are there going to be MUs where Pain Seer is little more than a bear, but there are also MUs where Lifebane is pretty piss-poor and I'm sure there's some MUs where you'd want to side in more threats and side out some removal.

[Longtoe]

This deck is fun and kills very quick.

[Self Medicated]

So I keep kicking around Gift of Orzhova in the SB thinking it might be good. And then I think I might just want more removal. Is Gift just not worth it?