Mono Black Aggro

[dpaine88]

Good Point, but so does Marauder.

[Pedros]

Small chance to be honest. Also is taking 4 so much worse than taking 3? Both sucks

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Herald of Torment

4 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall

19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

SB:
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
2 Erebos
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Desecration Demon
[/deck]

Dunno about Pain Seer <---> Thrill-Kill Assassin

Just testing, we played mirror with lazer with me drawing 2 cards out of pain seer.

[LaZerBurn]

What list were you running in the Dailys Pedro?


If we are to cut 2 Mogis Marauder , which I could see....I think I would want more removal like a 3rd Bile Blight and a Ultimate Price. That or 2 Demon I suppose but is is nice keeping the curve low.

He's running the list from post 6, no BNG on MTGO until the weekend. Pretty happy with the list Pedros just posted, I only need to pick up 23 cards (19 if I stick with Massacre Girl over Seer) and I can play it

[Tyrael]

Good Point, but so does Marauder.

I meant that doing 4 damage to your own face is not really what you want vs other creature decks

[Purp]

Testing SCG list vs Bant Walkers.... tough matchup

[dpaine88]

Lol Major derp on my part Tyrial..thought you were going where they need to lose a blocker for demon to possibly let Pain Seer attack.

Mogis and Seer have some nice synergy since that will probably draw you a card.

No Mogis at all huh Pedro? It seems too good not to run at least 2....

Most complains in the deck have been about lack of reach....Mogis is the perfect reach card, aside from MBC.

vs Mono Blue, he is awesome

Vs R/G monster, awesome

vs Control - still good as a haster and goes through Brimaz and Elspeth tokens.

He doesn't even seem that bad in multiples... Back to back could just end the game right there.

[Tyrael]

Yea I have a friend who runs a variation of Luis Navas' Rakdos Aggro deck and he told me he wishes he could play more than 4 copies of the marauder

[dpaine88]

yeah, if he was Red, I dont think he would be as good.

In this Mono Black Aggro, we really do have ZERO actual reach...I think that bumps psuedo-reach cards value such as Lifebane, Marauder and Herald.

[LP, of the Fires]

If reach is really a problem, I actually like the idea of splashing Red for something like Mogis God. He actually seems perfect in this deck. He'd be the top end of the curve, provides reach vs. control as a one sided sulfuric vortex, and with all our creatures, we get good mileage out of the sacrifice angle since that's more inspired for pain seer.

[LP, of the Fires]

Also yes, I think Mogis is much better then Exava, while she has haste, she's just another dude with a mostly negligible affect. Mogis does something unique, is difficult to answer, and has a ripple affect that can take over a game.

[Pedros]

yeah, if he was Red, I dont think he would be as good.

In this Mono Black Aggro, we really do have ZERO actual reach...I think that bumps psuedo-reach cards value such as Lifebane, Marauder and Herald.

I dont want to run more than 8 3 drops. 3/3/2 split seems good to test.

[dpaine88]

What would be the other 4 cards then? More Removal?

[Tyrael]

Seems like it

Also, I hope you guys are right about this deck cuz I'm about to trade away everything I have so I can make it work

[dpaine88]

After doing some testing vs R/w devotion and getting whooped..

I realized there is a LOT going on at the 3 drop spot... the Super Series setup of 4 Herald, 3 Lifebane 2 Mogis seems pretty solid to me.

[RedNihilist]

Is the 3 drop spot already too heavy to try Agent of the Fates?
I've seen a list somewhere that forced him + Nighthowler + Wring Flesh (+ Herald of Torment) in order to keep the enemies' creature count low, thus being able to swing with Pain Seer.

[soebek]

Now, I'm a terrible deck-builder but would Xathrid Necromancer help shore up the red aggro matchup? I see there's discussion about having him in the sideboard anyway since he synergises well with the humans (and thus Mutavault), and is therefore good against MBD and various Supreme Verdict-heavy control decks. Against RDW he'd allow us to proactively block their guys with ours, thus trading card for card... except we then get a zombie token out of it.

[Pedros]

After doing some testing vs R/w devotion and getting whooped..

I realized there is a LOT going on at the 3 drop spot... the Super Series setup of 4 Herald, 3 Lifebane 2 Mogis seems pretty solid to me.

Really got beat down by R/w devo? When I first took this deck I was also beat by it, after some time and testing you will beat them down easily.

If I remember correctly Super Series played 22 lands, I would like to have 23 to have ~75% to have 3 mana on turn 3, so I would play 3/3/2 split.

If you dont like Desecration demon in sb (as a big threat vs green midrange decks) what would you play in sb in this slot?

[Pedros]

So deck would be:

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder

4 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall

19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

SB:
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
2 Erebos
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Desecration Demon
[/deck]

If we dont like Desecration demons, what would we play? 1 More Lifebane Zombie and 1 more Specter? (Remember both comes vs Gx, Rx and Wx decks)

[soebek]

So deck would be:

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder

4 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall

19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

SB:
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
2 Erebos
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Desecration Demon
[/deck]

If we dont like Desecration demons, what would we play? 1 More Lifebane Zombie and 1 more Specter? (Remember both comes vs Gx, Rx and Wx decks)

I love this list, Pedros. I've had the idea rolling round in my head for a while but it's great to see someone better than me putting something together!

The Desecration Demons are fantastic. There's a fair few decks out
there that simply can't deal with him, so it's great bringing him in from the sideboad in those matchups. I was unsure about the Nightveil Specter, but again they seem to be pulling decent weight. I love Xathrid Necromancer, but having tested the deck for a short while I just don't see him doing more work than the other sideboard options there. He's great in some matchups, but so are Erebos and Nightveil.

I'll be sleeving this up for FNM this Friday.

[Tyrael]

It bothers me greatly that we have to play an awful card like Specter but it is what it is I guess

Since you're the better deckbuilder I'll trust your judgment on this one Pedros

[soebek]

It bothers me greatly that we have to play an awful card like Specter but it is what it is I guess

Since you're the better deckbuilder I'll trust your judgment on this one Pedros

Specter isn't awful. He can take over games if left unchecked, and his higher toughness really helps. I don't know, I think in the right match-up he's great... I mean there's a reason he's a four-of in two of the best decks in the format.

[Pedros]

Specters have defensive bodies that are flying that later can be changed to card advantage.

[LaZerBurn]

Like the new list, be interesting to see how Marauder works out

[dpaine88]

Awful card like Spectre? Are you kidding? That card has been one of the staples of the two best decks in standard...

I personally will be running 4 Herald, as he trumps Spectre and has been great in testing.

Pain Seer has also been good.

[imopen2]

I feel like devour flesh needs to be in the sideboard. I did my best to race BBV but I could never get the last point f damage through I would rather have 3 in the SB and have everything else as a 2 of

[Pedros]

Awful card like Spectre? Are you kidding? That card has been one of the staples of the two best decks in standard...

I personally will be running 4 Herald, as he trumps Spectre and has been great in testing.

Pain Seer has also been good.

So what are you cutting to make room for 4rd Herald? Land or zombie? If land mutavault or swamp?

If we play 22 lands with only 18 swamps we cant run Spectres in Sb.

Dont we already have seizes and lifebane zombies vs bbv? Also Erebos is another proactive answer. Remember we are an agro deck, so giving them life seems bad. I suggest far / away - cost 1 more but doesnt give them life.

[Narcasus]

Any thoughts for Spiteful returned? It gives pseudo reach and hits for 3 for 2 mana. Plus bestow is relevant at 4 mana. I might test it over pack rat this friday as crazy as it sounds.

[Pedros]

Yeah I thought about it, but mostly not as a 4 of. Good thing is it doesnt have to connect to dmg opponent. Looking forward to your test.

[Purp]

Melissa De Toros thoughts from her article today.

---

"I knew that many players would want to try out Pain Seer in aggressive decks, but I was unsure if Herald of Torment would get any love. Sure enough, Sean Rice used Herald of Torment as a four of in his Monoblack Aggro deck. I like Herald of Torment a lot and he reminds me of Serendib Efreet from back in the day. I also really liked Moroii from Ravnica, but he was four mana and just too slow for Standard. Herald of Torment is very reasonably costed at three mana and late in the game it can be bestowed to make one of your little creatures into a dragon.

This deck does a lot of damage to itself. Between Thoughtseize, Pain Seer, Herald of Torment, and Erebos out of the sideboard, so your opponent doesn't have to put up much of a fight against you. I can't see other aggro decks such as GW and Monored Aggro having a difficult time against this
deck. Overall this deck looks pretty fun and is actually different from what's out there right now, which is not something we usually see after the release of a small set. Sean finished 17th place with this deck. It's not Top 8 but in a field of over 500 players it's still very impressive. This is definitely a deck to watch out for in the coming weeks."

[imopen2]

Her comment about the mono red matchup makes no sense...a few burn spells to the face and we're dead.

It's too bad there isn't an efficient black lifelink creature

[Pedros]

We have whip of erebos, wings plus pharicas cure. We can make this matchup good, but it takes a lot of sb space.

[sakaye87]

I saw many of you were curious about a red splash for this deck. Here is what I am running. Red really is a tiny splash in my deck but the reach is great to have. Also Mogis's Marauder has been an all-star for me.

[deck]
Creatures (28)
4 Rakdos Crackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
3 Herald of Torment
4 Mogis's Marauder
3 Lifebane Zombies
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch

Spells (10)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall

Lands (22)
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mutavault
10 Swamp
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Dark Betrayal
1 Doom Blade
3 Lightning Strike
3 Skullcrack
4 Xathrid Necromancer
[/deck]

[Aodh]

You literally added zero reach to the mainboard. That said, looks fine, albeit in the wrong thread. Throw it in Dos Rakis and you'll get better feedback. Lightning Strikes out of the board seem weird, 4 Dark Betrayal seems excessive, but other than that just a pile of good cards.

[dpaine88]

How do you guys feel about Pack Rat?

I have been playing him in my Dos Rakis the past couple months but in this deck he has felt a little awkward.

My testing is limited though, but those of you have done some testing with this deck, how have you felt with Pack Rat?

[Pedros]

Unanswered wins on a spot. Vs Control treatents imbalanced burst damage if they dont kill him on a spot. Big intimidate guys with marauder to get past chumpblockers.

Would be even better with Tymaret.

[dpaine88]

Yeah, you're probably right. Still just getting used to this deck but I had a 1/1 Pack Rat far too often

Are there situations(aside from control) where you would not commit to just making Rats if you hit one turn 2?

Theres just a lot of action at 3 mana..

[Platypus]

Her comment about the mono red matchup makes no sense...a few burn spells to the face and we're dead.

Umm...I think you need to reread her comment about monored aggro decks.

I can't see other aggro decks such as GW and Monored Aggro having a difficult time against this deck.

[Tyrael]

Awful card like Spectre? Are you kidding? That card has been one of the staples of the two best decks in standard...

He's a 'staple' because he gives three devotion, not because he's such a good creature

However, I do not wish to turn this into a big argument so let's just drop it (and I apologize if I seemed condescending in any way, I just really dislike the card)

On topic: Pack Rat is hit or miss, but when it hits it wins you the game. It's a gamble but one that might be worth taking most of the time.

Point 2: Devour Flesh, do we need it? I know its main use is to take out BBoV which might make it overkill but I want your opinion on this matter regardless

[Aodh]

No need for an argument, just a discussion. Nightveil Specter is amazing in this metagame. He's useful in the Mono-.-Devotion decks--esp. MUD--because of his casting cost, but he also draws a lot of cards. And even outside of devotion decks, but in a devotion meta, he's going to be picking lands out of MUD for you and pretty much any card out of MBD for you to use against them.

[Tyrael]

The question is: is the specter alone good enough to hold off other aggro decks?