Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:07 pm

Vote Count 5!
It's a race, and I'm gonna win!

Stardust (0)
freedom (3) - Fate, zemanjaski, Captain Murphy
rcwraspy (0)
zemanjaski (2) - imopen2, DroppinSuga
Void (0)
Wraith223 (0)
Fate (0)
Captain Murphy (2) - Manders, freedom
DroppinSuga (0)
Manders (0)
rezombad (0)
(G_R) (0)
imopen2 (3) - Stardust, rcwraspy, Wraith223

Not Voting (3) - Void, rezombad, (G_R)

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

Deadline is: 30 January, 2014 11:59PM EST

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:16 pm

As for zem's case against me, I'm going to bring up the two back-to-back posts where he completely switched his read on me:

Sell me a case, I'm listening.

I don't like his last self aware post ("look how confidant and Town I am now!") but otherwise he's pretty null.

There could be a bit of town motivation. He could just be a townie saying the wrong things, like I am. He could even
be the doctor. But calling him scum is a good way to get more information from him.
Unvote, vote Freedom

You were asking for it with this post. Scum no. 1 found. All aboard the wagon. Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch.

Really, how does this make me "scum no. 1"? Don't say anything else caused you to get a scum read on me, because the post of mine that you quoted was the only one I made between your null read post and your scum read post. Sure, it may have been a bad move on my part, but there doesn't seem to be anything so wrong with it that makes me instantly become the #1 scum candidate without any doubt at all. Out of this entire post, the scummiest thing of all seems to be the bloodthirsty words of yours that I qouted.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm

Unvote. Vote zemanjaski.

Link · Postby **Link** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:35 pm

ROFL A Z COUNTER WAGON?

Link · Postby **Link** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:36 pm

I can smell the desperation from here holy fuck

I guess the scum realize they can't both NK Z N1

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:40 pm

I like how they're not even trying to hide their buddying.

Or their OMGUSing.

Or answer questions or requests made for them.

Scum team 1 found.

@ SD. Will answer your questions asap little lady, currently only have access to my phone and can't properly dredge up quotes for you.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:50 pm

Zem, I was going to go over your posts against me, but then I saw that nearly all of it was directed at imopen2 after he came to my defense, and I wasn't just going to repeat what imopen2 said regarding your earlier arguments against me.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:52 pm

freedom, case zemanjaski. Completely.

Fate, answer the questions in my previous post.

Z, you're a son of a bitch. I said you can hit on me, not creep on me.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:55 pm

Can't you tell from my sig that I'm very good looking?

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:56 pm

Just look good over there instead of outside my bedroom window, ya dig?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 pm

Suga I know it's not your style, but we'll need your input soon.

Manders and Void needs to post more.

No idea what's going on with Rez.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:02 pm

OMG rezombad spotted, he isn't dead!

rezombad · Postby **rezombad** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:02 pm

Totes catching up.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:11 pm

My case on zem:

I've never done one of these before. I guess I just go through the guy's posts throughout the whole game, summarize them, and give a bit of commentary/analysis.
Pages 1 & 2 are just even rolls from zem. People got a bit crazy over the whole "trap card" thing but, as z pointed out, that really meant nothing.

On page 3, the game begins to get started. Zem unvotes GR after Fate makes a comment on crosskilling. Maybe these two things are unrelated, and just ended up in the same post. Zem and I talk a bit about theory for a game with two mafias. Then, in post 100, zem votes for imopen2, because he says he likes his posts the least. I think this vote was mainly placed just to get imopen2 to speak and help z establish a read on him, so this can be seen as a good move.

Zem's next vote is on Fate. Again, this seems to be a vote to make the guy explain himself.

Post 109 is
interesting. Here it is:

Town would be very happy for the NK to fail, Fate Y U SO SCUM?

@ Manders, having played with imopen2, his style of posting so far is consistent with his scum game. I am content with my vote remaining here for now.

The first part seems to be based on some of Fate's misunderstanding and strange style of play (calling himself scum). In the second part, he states why he voted for imopen2, but follows it up with "I am content with my vote remaining here for now." His vote is on Fate at this point. Either zem forgot that he put his vote on Fate, or the second sentence was missing a "however" at the start.

Page 4 (the best part

):

Post 125
Zem reasons that narrowing down doc choices could benefit both the town and the mafias. It benefits the mafias more, but that doesn't really matter for my case on zem.

Post 127
After the first part, his thoughts seem to be in-line with mine on finding the best doc choices (the suggestion could have come from a townie, but following it through would be bad for town).
In the second part, he calls me town!

Post 131
I agree with what he says here, for the most part. I didn't want Murphy lynched until we heard more from everyone else as well. I just had my vote on him, knowing that it wasn't going to kill him and that I could remove it if it got too close to a lynch too
soon.

I had already talked about 138 & 142. Between 127 and here, zem goes from "I like freedom for Town right now" and "rushing a Day 1 lynch doesn't appeal to me" to "he's pretty null" to "Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch." Yes, those are direct quotes. I think it's more of what Fate said that caused zem to change his mind than what I said, and he just pulled out one of my posts as "reasoning" so that his vote wouldn't look completely unsubstantiated.

Post 143
This is just bad. He clears Murphy, saying that he's too good to actually say something that would benefit scum. Then he gets excited again and calls for my death.

Post 147
He calls my last post (saying that he was a bit too hasty, pretty much the same as what I'm saying now, but in
less detail) a scumpost. It's not. I feel like he's getting too excited and is seeing scumminess in everything that I write just because that's what he wants to see.

Post 150
This is imopen2's post, but I'm putting it here because it backs me up and points out the same flaws in zem's logic that I see. I didn't make this post because I thought it would seem OMGUS-y, but apparently when someone else does it they become my partner-in-crime.

Page 5:

Post 173: zem is wrong twice (although he is right about Suga being useless).

He becomes happy when he sees that others think I am scum as well.

Post 177
This is a big one. I had this quoted earlier in the morning and was going to answer it, but the post wasn't meant for me; it was meant for imopen2. Anyway, I'll break the meaningful parts
down here:

There could be a bit of town motivation. He could just be a townie saying the wrong things, like I am. He could even be the doctor. But calling him scum is a good way to get more information from him.
Unvote, vote Freedom

You were asking for it with this post. Scum no. 1 found. All
aboard the wagon. Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch.
No. All he is saying is that he is a townie who is saying the wrong things. What is scummy about that?
Its what he is implying - he is attempting to create an understanding where his own future scum slips are just "him accidentally saying something scummy". There's no need to add that detail, except for his own benefit in the future. That addition ONLY benefits Freedom. It is also WAY too self aware - Freedom attracted a lot of heat in DTR-mafia for saying scummy things, and has even made comment on that in this game, yet here he is trying to use that to deflect future attention.

I'm not going to deny this. I thought it was a good move. I guess I shouldn't try to look town, since people think that that makes me look scummy. Lesson learned.

game will only go a few days so rushing to a day 1 lynch doesn't appeal to me.
Tell me, what made you change your mind about this? Why'd you go from "let's learn as much as we can today before we lynch someone" to "get freedom, NOW!"?
SCUM POST DETECTED
You've got to be kidding me. OMGUS.

Unvote

Vote: Zem

How does it feel to be mafia for the first time?
I wouldn't know, still Vanilla Town here. Explain the OMGUS comment? I assume you're just
using it incorrectly. What's actually happening here is that you're OMGUSing me on behalf of your scum buddy.

I agree, and, as I have said before, I find this to be a very similar situation to what happened when Pie defended me in DTR Mafia. From the outside, you see me (scum, in your eyes) being defended by another player, so, to you, that player must also be scum. From the inside, I see myself (town) being defended by another player. Now, I am very confused about that player. I want to think that he's town and has a very strong townie read on me, and he's whiteknighting me because he can't stand to see another townie be so wrongly accused. However, it is also plausible that he is scum, and, knowing that I am town, chooses to defend me, because he sees that doing so will earn him major town points when I am cleared. With Pie, the former was true, but imopen2 has even more reason to defend me if he is scum, since the whiteknight was a townie in the previous situation. However,
townies also have reason to employ this tactic for the same reasons a scum player would do it, since they want to appear town as well.

Freedom's post is extremely scummy. He knows exactly why I would change my vote and behavior - because I think he is scum.

Notice how since attracting my attention his style of posting has changed to defensive?

Notice how now all you want to do is look at me and defend Freedom? You're even voting for me to try and dissuade people going after your scum buddy.

It isn't going to work.

(added the spaces)
1. I see the reasons for your behavior, but they're either:
a) based upon faulty logic, or
b) based upon scum motivations.
2. That's because the topic changed from "how do we go about finding scum?" to "lynch freedom."
3. I do notice that.
4. I hope it does

You've not even made a case on me,
which is the apex of hilarity. You just don't like that I am going after Freedom. If I were scum, would I really try this hard to openly kill another player? Your logic is so flawed and you should let Freedom talk for himself. One of you is getting lynched today though, so you may as well kiss the other goodbye.

Holy hypocrisy, Batman! I'd just like to pull this sentence out, since I believe it needs to be seen a third time:

"If I were scum, would I really try this hard to openly kill another player?"

Tell me, how is zem's "I am pushing for this lynch so hard that I can't be scum" not scummy as hell, and yet my "I'm a townie, but sometimes I say dumb things" immediately earns me two votes?

Post 180
This crap sounds really believable. Please don't believe this crap.
_____
______________________________________

The rest is mostly just a string of accusations and a few "come at me, bro"s.

Verdict: zemanjaski is scum. I have only played 1 game with him before, but in that game I was able to view him as a player on two different sides. As town, I felt a strong "try-hard townie" vibe from him. His play style was marked by constant accusations and fervent scumhunting, but he does not display that this game. Here, he is completely bloodthirsty, just like he was when he was a scum-leaning serial killer.

Void · Postby **Void** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:22 pm

@freedom:
Thank you for that info. Also, the statement about Town posting badly or however you phrased it does make you look bad because it sounds like you are Scum trying to act as Town and for that reason you have earned my vote for now as well.

Vote: freedom

If freedom flips Town, then fate is likely to be Scum after those postings.

Wraith223 · Postby **Wraith223** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:24 pm

What don't I get? Who's x? Who's Y? And who is C.P?

Dude, you are making my spine hurt. If you find the most probable town (X); you find the best probable doc choices (Y). Just....Just....Stop digging a hole. You Comments are pathetic.

And when was this 'last time' when you were right? Be more specific so I don't have to ask these questions. When Asked eveyone to consider that Iamopen2 was lying about the bus
driver claim from last game. I changed my vote and did not listen to my gut. On being specific, I fricken said it ealier! Learn to read and comprehend. You guys talk about past games all the time with minimal specifics.
And I never said that doc hunting was OK. I said that that comment didn't eliminate all possibility of him being town, but it gives off very strong scum signals, so I have my vote on him.

Playing devil's advocate lands in that seat fast. Stop sending mixed signals.

wraith, you're misreading again. I never supported doc hunting, and I never contradicted myself. I don't know if freedom is scum or not but the things zem was condemning him for were not things, therefore I doubt zem's towniness.

I see fate is failing to be a team-player this game too. lovely.

I'm fine with a murphy or a zem lynch. no one else at the moment
Last time you said I was misreading; my gut was right and I listened to you instead. Not happening again. Your reason to constantly lynch Zem in every game with poor evidence is noticeable now to me. You did make a contradiction with finding C.P idea of Doctor I.D. to be scum followed with voting Zem for being aggresive with Freedom for passively saying that C.P's doc hunting idea was OK. You can't have it both ways. You think you are good at covering it up, but the
contradiction is strongly there.
A few things:

1. In DTR Mafia I tried to get Zem lynched because I was scum and he was town. Now I am town and I think he is scum. See the difference? Poor equivocation. I see a guy faking town, switching votes to defend his scum buddy who was defending the first guy you thought was scum. You as real town?

2. Thinking Murphy is scum for trying to give more info to the mafia is different than thinking Zem is scum for giving some terrible reasons to lynch Freedom. There is no contradiction. Yeah underhanded plays are easily misconstrued to mean anything as you want. Actual voting does. Thus I call hard evidence and are you defending this with poor logic or anything to get out from under it.
[/color:
1e6mj63q]
3. If you want to understand my points against Zem's case on Freedom. Read my post in response to the case. I lay out the holes in his "case" (there is really not much of one other than "lynch him he is scum") pretty clearly. This sentence is obviscaiting the issue that you went full attack on Zem as a contradiction. That puts your reads on Zem as purely defensive for me. Others who wish to evaluate you are welcome as I see scum.

I can summarize it here for you, though.

Zem highlights the following part of Freedom's post: "He could just be a townie saying the wrong things, like I am."
Zem is overreaction and is aggressive. Freedom is a devil's advocate and makes scummy links in reads/comments. We know this from DTR mafia.
What exactly do you find wrong with that statement by Freedom? Yes, he is playing devil's advocate for Murphy (and I disagree with him),
but that doesn't make Freedom scum. It makes him scum cause you are defending him freedom instead of ignoring or snide commenting on it as usual. Associations label you and freedom.

Then Zem says, "You can only say Murphy is scum if you think a veteran player would knowingly make that slip." This is stupid. If we just write off mistakes because "they wouldn't have made that mistake" then why are we even doing analysis?
Indeed Zem has odd rationality but C.M. made a comment that captured you in a tar baby for voting C.M. followed by defending freedom by voting Zem for attacking a Devil's advocate of C.M.. You can't logically defend this and say Zem is scum for it based on the evidence you have in voting. Zem is sticking to his aggressive nature which is normal, for now.

Then Zem says, "You told us you were and even your last posts were scum posts.&
quot; As I've stated above, Freedom hadn't said anything of the sort and this is a silly argument. "He is scum because he said he was scum. See? He is obviously scum! Lynch him!" This is entirely different from Zem's style in previous games.
Say Stupid shit: get shit on. What do you expect? I flavor gamed and paid for it. Don't say dumb shit stuff.
Then the kicker.

Freedom says, "Tell me, what made you change your mind about this? Why'd you go from "let's learn as much as we can today before we lynch someone" to "get freedom, NOW!"?" (Which is a totally reasonable question)

and Zem responds with: "SCUM POST DETECTED."

That is utter and complete oh my god you suck by Zem since Freedom's post wasn't anywhere near a scum
post Zem went on the attack as usual for scum read that is explained later. What's new?

You guys can lynch me, that's fine since I didn't really want to be in the game in the first place, but I am town and it is ridiculous that the other townies are allowing this shit to continue.

Downplaying statements in your last sentence don't sit well with me. My gut is grumbling. Other townies see you as scum as well. The ones you are looking to defend you are opposing scum, your team, or are lurking.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:31 pm

I'm basically 100% convinced that imopen2 and freedom are not scum buddies. Doesn't mean that can't both be scum though.

freedom, the start of your case shows Z as quite townie. I can even see "I think this vote was mainly placed just to get imopen2 to speak and help z establish a read on him, so this can be seen as a good move" as a slip based on the wording you chose. Then you go on to say that you can't "view him as a player on two different sides" this game. What's up with that? Are you sure you're not confusing "constant accusations and fervent scumhunting" with bloodthirstyness now that it's aimed at you?

More later.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:37 pm

unvote

After reading through, I believe that freedom is scum. I still think Zem is someone that needs to be looked into. He's been OMGUSing a lot in this game and it's not his usual.

vote freedom

That should be L-2. Time for a claim from Freedom.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:40 pm

I'm basically 100% convinced that imopen2 and freedom are not scum buddies. Doesn't mean that can't both be scum though.

freedom, the start of your case shows Z as quite townie. I can even see "I think this vote was mainly placed just to get imopen2 to speak and help z establish a read on him, so this can be seen as a good move" as a slip based on the wording you chose.

I wasn't using that part to frame zem. That was the beginning of good scumhunting on his part. However, the scum should be hunting for scum as well.

Then you go on to say that you can't "view him as a player on two different sides" this game. What's up with that?

Are you sure you're not confusing "constant accusations and
fervent scumhunting" with bloodthirstyness now that it's aimed at you?

1. When did I say that? I said that I was able to view zem as a player for both sides in 1 game (DTR). Is that what you're talking about?
2. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll keep that in mind. I like my vote on zem for now, though.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:43 pm

Claim? I'm a vanilla townie. Zem is probably not my town partner. I advise that you do not lynch me before we get a bit more from Suga and rez, but if you do, do it today, since it looks like I'm going to have a busy week in school, so it would be nice to have this distraction removed.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:47 pm

We need more content from more players than I had thought, actually. GR and Void haven't posted that much meaningful content, and raspy is still really, really null to me.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:09 pm

I'm basically 100% convinced that imopen2 and freedom are not scum buddies. Doesn't mean that can't both be scum though.

freedom, the start of your case shows Z as quite townie. I can even see "I think this vote was mainly placed just to get imopen2 to speak and help z establish a read on him, so this can be seen as a good move" as a slip based on the wording you chose.
I wasn't using that part to frame zem. That was the beginning of good scumhunting on his part. However, the scum should be hunting for scum as well.

I meant that it was a slip on your part,
slipping that you know Z is town. I suppose scumZ would want to be establishing reads as well.

Then you go on to say that you can't "view him as a player on two different sides" this game. What's up with that?

Are you sure you're not confusing "constant accusations and fervent scumhunting" with bloodthirstyness now that it's aimed at you?
1. When did I say that? I said that I was able to view zem as a player for both sides in 1 game (DTR). Is that what you're talking about?
2. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll keep that in mind. I like my vote on zem for now, though.

1. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. In your concluding sentence you say that about DTR, implying that you don't see the two-sided townie this game. But you clearly do.
2.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:10 pm

So strange that both imopen and freedom are asking us to lynch them. I don't get it.

( G_R ) · Postby **( G_R )** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:18 pm

@Freedom: what?? I even made a post with more than ten words!

I'm on the road, traveling by land to Honduras. Will try to read walls of text and people as soon as possible.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:25 pm

Hrm. freedom might be town. I don't want to see him lynched today. Everyone get on the imopen bandwagon instead.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:26 pm

Well, I've decided that imopen2 would be a strictly better lynch for Day 1 than I would be. If you kill me toDay, I'll flip town, and then you won't know what the hell to do with imopen2. Did he come to the defense of a townie because he was pretty sure z was wrong and wanted to help me, because he was scum trying to look town, or because he was town trying to look town? I don't know, and you won't know any more about it once I'm dead. However, if you lynch imopen2 and he flips town, the whole scumpartners argument dissolves. If he flips scum, they we're one step closer to victory. Sure, it'll make us look like scumpartners and you'll probably end up mislynching me Day 2 as a result, but that would already happen if you stick with plan A.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:27 pm

You do realise there's a case against you that hinges on more than just "is imopen's scum buddy", right?

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:30 pm

Yeah, I came to that realization when I got to that part in the post. It sounded better in my head before I made it, but I figure I'd post it anyway. What's the worst that could happen?

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:22 pm

Well, I've decided that imopen2 would be a strictly better lynch for Day 1 than I would be. If you kill me toDay, I'll flip town, and then you won't know what the hell to do with imopen2. Did he come to the defense of a townie because he was pretty sure z was wrong and wanted to help me, because he was scum trying to look town, or because he was town trying to look town? I don't know, and you won't know any more about it once I'm dead. However, if you lynch imopen2 and he flips town, the whole scumpartners argument dissolves. If he flips scum, they we're one step closer to victory. Sure, it'll make us look like scumpartners and you'll probably end up mislynching me Day 2 as a result, but that would already happen if you stick with plan A.

Really? "Not me" is a better lynch than "me"?

I'll be able to dive in better tomorrow. Really just making sure I'm caught up and checking in today.

One quick thing. In DTR Mafia Imopen, Ham and I were all scum together and we had day chat while I was alive (the whole game). Imopen clearly demonstrated in both the game itself and in the scumchat that he knows better than to buddy a scumbuddy as hard as he's buddied Freedom in this game. To me that either means that they're not scumbuddies and Imopen doesn't want to mislynch, or that imopen is fishing for scum from the other team, or that imopen and freedom are scumbuddies but don't have daychat and imopen is afraid of losing a team-member because of the unique format of the game. I'm going with not the last one though.

Still not moving my vote from Imopen until I dive in more fully tomorrow. DO NOT QUICK LYNCH HIM BEFORE THEN.

Other quick reads:
- Z seems town to me but I want to dive in deeper on his posts
n- If I were to move my vote from imopen it would go on Freedom most likely
- Despite his later explanation, Fate did say that he was scum, and I wouldn't be opposed to taking him at his word
- I don't believe Stardust's Doc claim

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:25 pm

There is a day chat for both scum teams. You'll see this if you you back and read the sample PMs.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:26 pm

Shit, I misread. Just a night chat for the mafia.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:32 pm

Lynch this man.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:03 pm

My responses are going to be delayed. I didn't get to sleep until nearly 6am last night and by the time I get home....ugggh. I'll endeavor to post by the end of the day, but if not will post tomorrow. Sorry; just couldn't sleep for some reason.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:06 pm

There is a day chat for both scum teams. You'll see this if you you back and read the sample PMs.
Shit, I misread. Just a night chat for the mafia.

Yeah, okay, I'll lynch freedom. Give it a day or two to get responses to my questions in and I'll pack 'er up.

Postby **Stardust** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:07 pm

- I don't believe Stardust's Doc claim

You may believe whatever you wish. It doesn't really matter because I know something most don't.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:35 pm

Looks like I may have just lost the game. Sorry!

I won't be on tomorrow (or I shouldn't be, at least), so if you want anything more from me, now's probably a good time to ask. In case I do end up at L-0 before I check the page again, I'd like a few players to give me advice on what I should have done so that I could have helped my team more and not have wound up in this spot, like Stardust did for zem after he got shot. I mean, zem has laid out his points against me, and I see that some of my words definitely didn't help out my townie claim, but none of it seems that bad (up until this page

). I'd especially appreciate seeing this from zem, Fate, Stardust and
imopen2.

Murphy, now is probably your best chance to look for doc choices, if you're still into that sort of thing.

Reads:
Stardust is null, but certainly not because of a lack of content.
Murphy is still on my scum list. I see that there are a lot of explanations for the post of his that prompted my vote on him that do not involve him being scum, but the evidence is there and cannot be dismissed.
imopen2 is town to me, but not 100% (maybe 70%).
Fate is null to me, not because I can't get a read on him, but because half the time I come to a scum read and half the time I come to a town read.
Wraith is town. I think pretty much all of us see this.
We all know how I feel about zem.

Link · Postby **Link** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:52 pm

Would someone compile the case(s) for me on the current wagons? The way it is, currently, is to muddled for me to grasp fully. TIA!

still scum bte

Wraith223 · Postby **Wraith223** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:19 am

There is a day chat for both scum teams. You'll see this if you you back and read the sample PMs.
Shit, I misread. Just a night chat for the mafia.

Yeah, okay, I'll lynch freedom. Give it a day or two to get responses to my questions in and I'll pack 'er up.

Can I get a specific reason why. It's hard to read all this while being busy caring for grandfolks.

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:15 am

It makes it look like I knew something about the mafia (that the mafia could daychat) that the town didn't. This was not the case (I either misread or mis-remembered the contents of Kaze's sample PM's in the opening posts). It's pretty much impossible for me to prove that this was nothing more than a reading mistake on my part, though. Did I get it right, Stardust?

Postby **Stardust** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:49 am

No, actually, although you seem pretty sincere now. I'm really not sure about you.

Basically, what you did might be considered a town tell, except that it's so stupid. How can you be mafia when you think they have Daychat, right? Obviously you hadn't read the role PM's, and it certainly couldn't be your own role PM! Problem is, it's so contrived, like you're trying to town slip. Responding less than a minute later instead of just checking while you're posting? I'm not sure i can buy that.

Dies to Removal

Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

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