Dies To Removal Mafia - Game Over (Mafia Win)

[zemanjaski]

Come on Rez, answer for me. Apparently we're practically the same person

[DocLawless]

I'm also new to this "subtlety" thing, so there's that too.

[imopen2]

"You're going to feel pretty stupid but that's OK."


Zem, why would it be ok if we mislynched toDay? If you are town, do something town. What do you think about Rezombad?

[Jack]

Rez reminds me a lot of Dane. They seem to appreciate the same simple humor.

[zemanjaski]

Thanks Doc. Any insight on the following:

"Then you're either town, or fakeclaiming town and bussing." - Have you been reading much on mafia theory? If yes, what?

"Either way, you're either voting for someone who you know is scum because you have inside scum knowledge, or you're voting for someone you are convinced is scum." I am not currently voting for anyone (nor was I at the time of your post). Does that have any significance to you? If I am scum bussing scum, who do you think my scum buddies are, based on current interactions?

"All I'm 100% sure of about you is that you aren't stupid." It's probably to soon to say.

[rezombad]

Come on Rez, answer for me. Apparently we're practically the same person

Why are you so worried about what I think about you?

[zemanjaski]

"You're going to feel pretty stupid but that's OK."


Zem, why would it be ok if we mislynched toDay? If you are town, do something town. What do you think about Rezombad?

Well, me being mislynched isn't optimal, and I haven't suggested that it is. I would prefer to survive a little longer in this game! I say it is OK if I am mislynched because I think that through post and wagon analysis there will be enough information to dig out some or maybe all of the scum. I have tried to interact with pretty much everyone, and there is a lot of back and forward. If I get mislynched, I hope that there is enough information for the next few lynches to be scum. I do know that town can win with a mislynch or two so I feel that the loss of 1 town
for this much information still benefits town.

I think I have done lots of pro-town questioning. Whether or not they are good questions is hard for me to say; its only my second game.

I am null on Rezombad currently. Reading through his posts and having interacted with him outside of Mafia, his behaviour seems consistent with his normal attitude. I didn't last long enough in Ragnarok to really get a feel for his play there and I have seen him resort to the deflection + silly pictures in other games; so I don't have a real lean either way on him. His questions are kinda null to me, they do serve town but they're also easy questions for scum to ask. I find it curious that people have jumped on me for asking obvious questions but Rez gets a free-ride. I guess it is because I am new and he is experienced. However:

- refusing to answer simple questions might be deflection, which is scummy; and
- asserting I am scum then not voting for me is also scummy. Town aren't worried about wagon analysis or
being the hammer or forcing someone to claim. They just want to catch scum. Fence sitting like this lets Rez try and get others to do his dirty work for him, without him being caught via analysis afterwards.

I'll be putting up a T/S list once I get SD's substantive post tomorrow, and more from Ham. Anything LMD wants to add would be greatly appreciated as well.

[pedit] @ Rez. I am worried because I would think that you should cast your vote on me if you think I am obv scum; I don't like fence sitting and I don't like fence sitting.

I do however love the Simpsons pics.

[zemanjaski]

Freedom ask someone a question please.

[Jack]

Why? I'm planning on falling asleep before I could read the answer, and I don't feel like thinking right now. The only reason I'm still up is because these forums have been so active.

[zemanjaski]

That isn't a pro town response at all. Hmmmmmmm.

[DocLawless]

Thanks Doc. Any insight on the following:

"Then you're either town, or fakeclaiming town and bussing." - Have you been reading much on mafia theory? If yes, what?

I was directed to wiki.mafiascum.net back when Suga started organizing the game and.I decided to join in I read a few beginner strategies and learned some of the terminology.

"Either way, you're either voting for someone who you know is scum because you have inside scum knowledge, or you're voting for someone you are convinced is scum." I am not currently voting for anyone (nor was I at the time of your post). Does that have any significance to you?

I mean to imply when you vote, it will be
for confirmed scum or for whoever did the worst job of convincing you they weren't.

If I am scum bussing scum, who do you think my scum buddies are, based on current interactions?

I'm too inexperienced to be confident in saying. You've butted heads with Wraith, but I don't think it'd be him. I have no evidence to support Wraith being town or scum other than heated posts directed at you. Actually, if you're bussing, I think it's more likely that you're the one going under it at this point. But frankly, I think you want to keep playing Mafia on this site and if you get lynched and flip scum you'll never live it down. So to me the less likely possibility is that you are scum.

"All I'm 100% sure of about you is that you aren't stupid." It's probably to soon to say.

I will not be put off my guard by your modesty.

[rezombad]

I don't recall ever calling you obv scum z. Care to quote me there? I have been drinking this evening.

[zemanjaski]

@ Rez. You didn't call me obv scum, I said "if you think I am obv scum", with the implication being that if I am scum, you should vote for me and not-fence sit. From your response I deduce that you don't think I am scum. Who do you think is scum?

@ Doc (is this contraction acceptable to you?). I really like your analysis. Town points for you. The logic is there, you should start dissecting other person's play now, who knows what you might turn up.

[rezombad]

@ Rez. You didn't call me obv scum, I said "if you think I am obv scum", with the implication being that if I am scum, you should vote for me and not-fence sit. From your response I deduce that you don't think I am scum. Who do you think is scum?

@ Doc (is this contraction acceptable to you?). I really like your analysis. Town points for you. The logic is there, you should start dissecting other person's play now, who knows what you might turn up.

So you think that by me questioning you that I think youre obvscum until i dont explicitly call you obvscum in which case I must think you're town?

[zemanjaski]

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

[InflatablePie]

Hi Pie. You scum again?

if z is town I guarantee there's scum on the wagon regardless. Starbuck could possibly be some scum mastermind, in which
case we're all fucked anyway. imopen isn't reading as townie as Ragnarok, but I can call him townish for now. it's probably Wraith in that case.

If z is town, wraith is scum? What if z is scum?

if Z is scum I'd go after GR next based off current info, could change depending who's on the lynching wagon.

I don't particularly like these posts. lining up lynches etc. Noted.

It's not lining up a lynch. Especially because, as I said, I can't really make a good guess because I don't have z's lynchwagon to go on. Try again.

sidenote: when I'm scum, I like to 'note' things for later. just sayin'.

And nope, not ignoring freedom. I just think he was stupid enough to hand himself in a plater for a lynch.

But you do know why I thought you were ignoring him, yeah? Since you didn't comment on him at all?

BTW walls of text suck balls. Quit that shit.

I linked the relevant posts rather than quoting and even spoiler'd the whole thing so you didn't have to scroll past it every time. It was a lot of summation/bullet-points really, I opened up a .rtf file and made notes as I caught up. I'm so sorry if it offends you, Your Grace.


@Z:
- Can you offer any insight to what about post 85 confuses you? - nope.
- I don't have much else to say about your post really, it mostly reads as a recap. - yep.
- As for me
explaining my reasoning, I did that in Ragnarok as well. - not to this extent. granted, you weren't alive for long and you're trying something different. but still.
- Can you please give a brief summary for you case for SD are town? Merci. - Stardust? Have you been reading her posts? If so, you'd see why. I can't see why anyone would think she was scum at this point.
- Overall I found your artificial use of points confusing and arbitrary, almost distracting. - welcome to DtR mafia, where accusations are made-up and the points don't matter.


rez's pics are chuckleworthy but he should be slightly less of a clownfuck for a bit. moderation, sir.

That isn't a pro town response at all. Hmmmmmmm.

it's also not an anti-town response. don't even.

scum, especially newbscum, would make sure they adhered to the whims and wishes of every townie in the game as not to get caught. they wouldn't say "nop fuck u m8".

I will whiteknight the shit out of freedom, so back off.

@doc: don't listen to Z, feel free to keep grilling him. I mean, don't get all tunnelvisioned, but still. go get 'em champ!

p.s. - y'all and your capitalizations when saying toDay and toNight drives me up a wall. just sayin'.

[pedit]

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

[DocLawless]

@ Doc (is this contraction acceptable to you?).

It is.

[DocLawless]

@doc: don't listen to Z, feel free to keep grilling him. I mean, don't get all tunnelvisioned, but still. go get 'em champ!

Don't think I haven't noticed that's the second time he's positively reinforced someone for insinuating they think he might be town.

[imopen2]

@Pie: if you read that series of posts by me (posts 23-26), you will see that the timestamps are all within a minute or so of each other. I was literally stream-of-consciousness at that point.

aside: I tend to post like that since 1. it helps me organize my thoughts, and 2. I like to try to get my opinion heard before other people point things out and make me look like i'm sheeping. idk why but I really hate when I notice something and get the post preview of someone else posting about it./end aside

anyways, my immediate reaction was: this is an obvious fake-claim, I've never heard of this "day-cop" role before, Z is full of shit. the fact that we were still early in the RVS period of the game (most of my previous games ended up going at least 1 page before RVS was ended, made me think it was a joke. I honestly didn't even think it was a gambit, but a joke, it was so obvious. but then I started
thinking for a second, and said to myself, "you've never heard of this before, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be true," so I questioned my analysis of the situation, and quickly changed my mind back. you can even see my mind changing in post 25. It really seemed like a joke that Z was running with and therefore a distraction because it was prolonging RVS. in the end it got people talking, though, so it was definitely useful.

I'm too inexperienced to be confident in saying. You've butted heads with Wraith, but I don't think it'd be him. I have no evidence to support Wraith being town or scum other than heated posts directed at you. Actually, if you're bussing, I think it's more likely that you're the one going under it at this point. But frankly, I think you want to keep playing Mafia on this site and if you get lynched and flip scum you'll never live it down. So to me the less likely possibility is that you are scum[/b:
2gt9fqah]."

Doc: this is really bad logic. you have no idea the lengths people will go in this game to win

I mean to imply when you vote, it will be for confirmed scum or for whoever did the worst job of convincing you they weren't.

wat?

"You're going to feel pretty stupid but that's OK."


Zem, why would it be ok if we mislynched toDay? If you are town, do something town. What do you think about Rezombad?

Well, me being mislynched isn't optimal, and I haven't suggested that it is. I would prefer to survive a little longer in this game!
I say it is OK if I am mislynched because I think that through post and wagon analysis there will be enough information to dig out some or maybe all of the scum. I have tried to interact with pretty much everyone, and there is a lot of back and forward. If I get mislynched, I hope that there is enough information for the next few lynches to be scum. I do know that town can win with a mislynch or two so I feel that the loss of 1 town for this much information still benefits town.

I think I have done lots of pro-town questioning. Whether or not they are good questions is hard for me to say; its only my second game.

I am null on Rezombad currently. Reading through his posts and having interacted with him outside of Mafia, his behaviour seems consistent with his normal attitude. I didn't last long enough in Ragnarok to really get a feel for his play there and I have seen him resort to the deflection + silly pictures in other games; so I don't have a real lean either way on him. His questions are kinda
null to me, they do serve town but they're also easy questions for scum to ask. I find it curious that people have jumped on me for asking obvious questions but Rez gets a free-ride. I guess it is because I am new and he is experienced. However:

- refusing to answer simple questions might be deflection, which is scummy; and
- asserting I am scum then not voting for me is also scummy. Town aren't worried about wagon analysis or being the hammer or forcing someone to claim. They just want to catch scum. Fence sitting like this lets Rez try and get others to do his dirty work for him, without him being caught via analysis afterwards.

I'll be putting up a T/S list once I get SD's substantive post tomorrow, and more from Ham. Anything LMD wants to add would be greatly appreciated as well.

[pedit] @ Rez. I am worried because I would think that you should cast your vote on me if you think I am obv scum; I don't like fence sitting and I don't like fence sitting.

I do however love the Simpsons pics.

Z, at the beginning of this post you are null on Rezombad and "not leaning either way," by the end of it you are listing ways he is being scummy and describing his scum-motivations.

[zemanjaski]

@ imopen.

1. I don't see how you can say my gambit prolonged RVS. If anything it ended it immediately.
2. I don't understand your issue with my analysis of Rez; I do have him as null, I am just listing behaviour that is worth noting. It's like you didn't really read my post properly at all.

[zemanjaski]

Seriously I don't understand Rezom's question.

[InflatablePie]

I'm gonna try and post this type of thing occassionally:

Read In Case Of Death (1)

---

3. freedom
7. Stardust
8. imopen2

2. DocLawless
12. Rezombad

4. Hamfactorial
10. LMD

5. rcwraspy
9. wraith223

1. Zemanjaski
11. G_R

If I'm NK'd, or if everyone goes on a simultaneous heroin binge and shank-lynches me, please refer to the most previously updated list if you have no idea who's scum and town and need a starting point. Thanks.

[imopen2]

@ imopen.

1. I don't see how you can say my gambit prolonged RVS. If anything it ended it immediately.
2. I don't understand your issue with my analysis of Rez; I do have him as null, I am just listing behaviour that is worth noting. It's like you didn't really read my post properly at all.

I think it was you who didn't understand me.

1. I didn't say it DID prolong RVS, quite the contrary, I said it was useful to the town since it generated discussion. What I said was, if it was a joke, as I first assumed, then it was a distraction since a joke in RVS is still RVS. Basically, on the surface it seemed like such a poor gambit that I couldn't believe it was intended to be one. In the end, however, I was wrong and despite the fact that
it was easily see through, it served a useful purpose. The post in question was post #24 in the whole thread might I add. My opinion changes over time and with new information

[zemanjaski]

Hi Pie. You scum again?

Well that was easy.

@Z:
- Can you offer any insight to what about post 85 confuses you? - nope.
- I don't have much else to say about your post really, it mostly reads as a recap. - yep.
- As for me explaining my reasoning, I did that in Ragnarok as well. - not to this extent. granted, you weren't alive for long and you'
re trying something different. but still.
- Can you please give a brief summary for you case for SD are town? Merci. - Stardust? Have you been reading her posts? If so, you'd see why. I can't see why anyone would think she was scum at this point.
- Overall I found your artificial use of points confusing and arbitrary, almost distracting. - welcome to DtR mafia, where accusations are made-up and the points don't matter.


rez's pics are chuckleworthy but he should be slightly less of a clownfuck for a bit. moderation, sir.

OK.

That isn't a pro town response at all. Hmmmmmmm.

it's also not
an anti-town response. don't even.

You're either for town or against town. I would like to know the town motivation to doing nothing. I don't see why town would need to ask "why?" when so much discussion in the thread has related to the value of interaction. He should know. Needing to ask just looks like avoidance.

scum, especially newbscum, would make sure they adhered to the whims and wishes of every townie in the game as not to get caught. they wouldn't say "nop fuck u m8".

I don't necessarily agree with this. I am noob town and everyone is jumping all over my first game like it is the definitive guide to how I play. Everyone is different and I will not let the fact that its his first game mean he can pass through without analysis. He should want to help, not avoid. Still think he is noob town, but still, be more helpful.

I will whiteknight the shit out of freedom, so back off.

OK. So I am not allowed to ask too many questions (according to your first spoilered post) and I am not allowed to harass Freedom. How interesting.

You do realize I have unvoted him right?

@doc: don't listen to Z, feel free to keep grilling him. I mean, don't get all tunnelvisioned, but still. go get 'em champ!

[/quote]

I don't see how I told him to stop asking me questions either, nice try.

[zemanjaski]

@ imopen. Thanks for clarifying, carry on.

[imopen2]

2. I was simply pointing out the fact that you saying you have no leanings on Rez and them list several scummy things he's done. Seems like leaning to me. I don't like how the beginning of your post matches with your analysis at the end

[zemanjaski]

OK

[InflatablePie]

@z:
Everyone is different and I will not let the fact that its his first game mean he can pass through without analysis - wha? I analyzed him. He's newbtown. Because guess what, newbscum does not go against the grain like that. They don't admit to flailing. They double-check their posts and make sure things like that "slip" don't happen. I'm not saying he gets a free ride, I'm saying there's pretty much no way he's scum because that's not the attitude a first-time-mafia-first-time-scum player would have in his situation. And before you ask, first-time-scums do the opposite of what freedom is doing.

not pro-town =/= anti-town

OK. So I am not allowed to ask too many questions (according to your first spoilered post) and I am not allowed to harass Freedom. How interesting. You do realize I have unvoted him right? - Harassing him is fine*, just don't
call him scum or imply such. If you've unvoted him, why are you still flinging mud his way by calling his response anti-town?

I don't see how I told him to stop asking me questions either, nice try. - "The logic is there, you should start dissecting other person's play now, who knows what you might turn up." - blatantly telling implying him not to look into you anymore and to find someone else to analyze.
*it's not actually fine but y'know what I meant.

[zemanjaski]

You're a lot more experienced than I am at mafia, so if you're definitively saying there is no chance he is noob scum, none whatsoever, then OK.

Just because I am not voting for someone I cannot test their response? WTF man?

One reading is that I said that he should stop looking at me, another is that I am just saying that he should also look at others as well. You can't see the other reading? Doc had made comments to the effect of been a little unsure of himself, but after his last few posts I don't think he has any reason to be. So he can either start looking at others, which is good, or he can seriously come after me, which is also good. Only responding to my questions is OK, but he can do better than that.

[InflatablePie]

Oh no, you can do whatever you want. I just found it scummy.

I'm not as oppressive as you're making me out to be.

[DocLawless]

Doc: this is really bad logic. you have no idea the lengths people will go in this game to win

I mean to imply when you vote, it will be for confirmed scum or for whoever did the worst job of convincing you they weren't.

wat?

Correct on the first point.


My theory at the time was if he's town, he's legit hunting and potentially trying to martyr himself. But if he's scum he might be trying to toss a fellow scum under the bus so town will thereafter trust him. In both scenarios he's going to vote to lynch someone who is scum, or someone he's convinced is scum, as opposed to trying to get someone from town killed. But those theories both exclude
the possibility that he has no qualms with being caught in a bold faced lie later, and/or that he is scum and playing above my level (which are possibilities that should be entertained as well). As you say, I have no idea the lengths people will go to win.

[zemanjaski]

Oh no, you can do whatever you want. I just found it scummy.

I'm not as oppressive as you're making me out to be.

1. You're more experienced than me.
2. You told me to stop questioning another poster.
3. You've told me to shut up and said words to the effect of my questions are bad.

I am certainly not intimidated, and will continue to keep doing whatever I like, just calling it as I see it.

Mod: votecount please

[InflatablePie]

well maybe if your questions would stop being bad we wouldn't have this problem

[InflatablePie]

also the you being scum thing

BUT MOSTLY THE QUESTIONS

[zemanjaski]

I actually like that you're defending Freedom. You didn't defend me in Ragnarok when everyone was jumping all over me early, but you were scum there. Here you're defending noob town. Town points for you

Still, I am asking similar questions to Ragnarok where everyone post game was encouraging of my play, yet here they are critical. So fickle. I think if not for the gambit, my play is pretty much the same.

[zemanjaski]

BUT MOSTLY THE QUESTIONS

dealwithit.gif

[InflatablePie]

last question before I go play Tales of Xillia and/or sleep: who's scum, Z?

[zemanjaski]

G_R - for the voting thing.
rcwraspy - I haven't liked his questions so far.
one of: doclawless, hamfactorial or LMD. Need more content from these guys.

Most of these players aren't posting much, so if they would post more so I can engage with them, that would be great.

[zemanjaski]

Rez maybe also, but I think being a difficult jackass is just part of his personality.

[zemanjaski]

Furhter to before, in Ragnarok Pie was scum and did not protect either myself or Tubehunter (both noob town) when we were under duress; that Pie is standing up for Freedom here suggests to me that either:
- Pie is town and wants to prevent a mislynch;
- They're scum buddies.

Now I think it is MUCH more likely than the first option (both town) is correct; based on both Freedom's actions and responses and because I don't think Pie would try to save a noob scum team mate.