[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[F.I.A]

It relies too much on Master of Waves to seal the game for them, though. G Devotion, however, can be just terribly effective.

[Kazekirimaru]

That is such good tech, though. My goodness. I should have seen it coming.

[LP, of the Fires]

There's a devotion deck for every color but white in the top 8. The green and red one's are both gruul decks built around niykthos splashing the secondary color for walkers and sideboard cards, the black and blue ones are mono-colored decks built around powerful devotion affects(master of waves, gray merchant) that play a single copy of nykthos and a full set of mutavaults.

[LP, of the Fires]

We've all likely known someone who built these decks(my testing mates built the black one mostly card for card and the blue one when all the cards where spoiled), but since we weren't testing for the pro tour, it's likely that we defaulted to a strat that we're more comfortable with, hence Pyro Red being awesome.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Tempted to sleeve up the Black Devo deck just because of the Merchant. Love that card in booster draft.

[zemanjaski]

Times I have played Assemble the Legion: 5
Games won w/ Assemble the Legion in play: 5

Yup.

[DerWille]

OK 13-2. Chained to the Rocks makes such a difference against GW/Naya. They were slightly unfavourable as mono red, now they're like 55-60%. Ridiculous. Even got to ultimate a Chandra for triple lightning strike (my opponent's entire board).

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

Enchantments
2 Chained the the Rocks

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple Garden
12 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
2
Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Hammer of Purporos
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

Renounce and Wear // Tear are not set in stone. I am tempted to just run 3 x Peak Eruption if Dega catches on.

Assemble + Hammer is a nice split, there are little differences between the two which makes me like the split.
- hammer is better against jace
- assemble doesn't die to putrefy or abrupt decay
- assemble is good against naya whereas hammer is pretty bad
- you can draw hammer in multiples
- hammer does only cost 3 though, and the haste clause is lovely
So far I like the split.

You lose a few points in the mirror on account of your mana base, but hopefully chained + reckoner makes up for it; you can clean answer your opponent's reckoner and phoenix; they cannot answer yours.

This seems like a solid deck, but I've got a question about the mana base, why are you running temple garden instead of
4 more plains? Why is the green source of mana so important when there aren't any green costing cards in the 75?

[zemanjaski]

Crap. I always type Temple Garden...it's Temple of Triumph!

[DerWille]

Ah gotcha. How has Temple of Triumph been working for you? Has there been any hands that have been too slow or does the scry 1 make up for that slowness?

[zemanjaski]

Definitely costs me a turn, or a mana here and there. But it has definitely paid dividends at times as well. Overall, happy with it.

[F.I.A]

I just got blown up with a three turn MoW in a DE (More details on pyro thread). I managed to reduce the devotion count to 1, but dang, 3 2/1s and 6 4/3s. It hit like a freaking tidal wave.

[zemanjaski]

Updated decklist (after 16-4):

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Peak Eruption
[/deck]

So, I wanted something a little more decisive for Dega and GR Ramp; turns out Peak Eruption is a pretty good magic card against these decks!

[stephan]

The white splash looks promising, adresses some of the issues i had.

Is there something to do against those nasty Hexproof decks, Scout->unflinging courage -> holy mantle is hard to race -.- hopeing hexproof is Practice Room only?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Z, what do you think about Adrian Sullivan's Boros Sledgehammer deck?

[zemanjaski]

I like it, though I wouldn't play so few white sources. I think it's well positioned if control is on the decline.

I'm thinking about doing a Boros midrange deck myself (no 1 drops, 2-5); but I need to see how the meta shakes out in a week. Hard to tell right now.

@ Stefan ~ you just have to not worry about it. Can't beat everything!

[zemanjaski]

^FWIW JS I'm super happy with my Boros Pyro deck!

[zemanjaski]

23-5 and done.

Solid day's testing.

[Yarpus]

Dat Eternal Ugliness on stream yo.
I don't want you to touch my GY you stupid cunt.

[Link]

its time for a rise of POLIS CRUSHER

PRO GODS

YOURE DAMN RIGHT I AM

[rcwraspy]

DPaine and I played in Mass states yesterday. Actually, we got matched up and DPaine gave me my first loss - in the 3rd round of 7 total. My first 3 rounds, including against DPaine, were against the mirror. Playing Devotion Red and going 2-1 against the mirror seems ok to me.

Going into the last round they put up the standings. I was #16, with pretty decent breakers. I got matched up against Domri Naya with Unflinching Courages forever. He won the die roll. I lost game 1 even though it was fairly close. ROFLSTOMP'd him in game 2 when I was on the play. And then I fucking punted game 3. My 7 was no land, so shipped it. My 6 was Mountain, BTE, BTE, FIrefist, Lightning Strike, Lightning Strike. I kept it and didn't see another land. I was on the draw and figured I had 2 draws to make everything in my hand active. Nope. I know better, too. Who knows how I would have done on 5 against him, but if I had won that
match I'd have definitely been in the top 16 and possibly in the top 8 since I had decent breakers. I wound up being ranked 22. There were just under 70 players.

I'll post a full tournament report in the devotion red thread later today.

[Wrathberry2]

what do you guys think about this master of waves deck? do you think it will be the same as craterhoof.dec and will just die by getting hated out?

[Yarpus]

There aren't too many ways to hate it out. I think it even has favorable matchup against UW/Esper (have you seen Wafo Tapa's games? Yep, Blue Skies actually deal well with it mostly due to Mutavaults + Bidet generating all the CA you ever need).
Some hate cards against it: Mindsparker and Skylasher. But it's not like those cards are extremally good on their own.
I think very anti-aggro UW with Ratchet Bombs and Verdicts could have very favorable matchup.

[rcwraspy]

There aren't too many ways to hate it out. I think it even has favorable matchup against UW/Esper (have you seen Wafo Tapa's games? Yep, Blue Skies actually deal well with it mostly due to Mutavaults + Bidet generating all the CA you ever need).
Some hate cards against it: Mindsparker and Skylasher. But it's not like those cards are extremally good on their own.
I think very anti-aggro UW with Ratchet Bombs and Verdicts could have very favorable matchup.

Or play Doom Blade?

Watching these Pro Tour games, I have to think Rakdos Control could dismantle this Waves deck. You have your own CA in Read the Bones, Underworld Connections, and Chandra. You have access to Anger of the Gods for everything other than Master herself. You can bring in
Ratchet Bombs if you really want. Dreadbore does a lot of work vs. any non-Master creature and their Jaces. Lightning Strike conveniently does damage equal to Nightveil Specter's toughness. Strip the rest of their board and Master is just a 2/1. Or, again, Doom Blade it. Not to mention Thoughtseize/Duress/Rakdos's Return for hand disruption.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Sullivan lost in the top 4...

[Lightning_Dolt]

Call this one the Zullivan...

[deck]Creatures (20)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments (3)
3 Chained the the Rocks

Instants (12)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands (23)
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wear // Tear
4 Shormbreath Dragon
2 Mutavault[/deck]

[Yarpus]

Or play Doom Blade?

It still misses Nightveil Specter. And this card is kinda relevant to their devotion count.

[rcwraspy]

Or play Doom Blade?

It still misses Nightveil Specter. And this card is kinda relevant to their devotion count.

Hence why I said Rakdos control and listed Lightning Strike and Dreadbore as well.

[Yarpus]

Mhm, kay. Dreadbore hits them hard in the soft spot. Mortars is fine.
Still, there aren't too many good creatures for RB. Cerberus is not the control card - same for Exava. Stormbreath Dragon as finisher?
I think the best bet would be Darkhammer with Cerberus as curve topper and with all the sweet cards to deal with stuff.

[Khaospawn]

Mhm, kay. Dreadbore hits them hard in the soft spot.

Hero's Downfall?

[Yarpus]

Red gives you too many option to make manabase work with 1BB spell.

[rcwraspy]

Mhm, kay. Dreadbore hits them hard in the soft spot. Mortars is fine.
Still, there aren't too many good creatures for RB. Cerberus is not the control card - same for Exava. Stormbreath Dragon as finisher?
I think the best bet would be Darkhammer with Cerberus as curve topper and with all the sweet cards to deal with stuff.

Pre-board creature base for a Rakdos Control would likely have Lifebane Zombie (obviously bad in this matchup), Desecration Demon, Stormbreath Dragon, and maybe Ember Swallower. Rakdos Keyrune would do well. I've been playing around with Master of Cruelties but that's likely just a pet card.

I hear Illness in the Ranks is a black card too.

[rcwraspy]

And I already mentioned Anger of the Gods too. That kills everything they have except Thassa (but it would probably take away devotion) and Master of Waves.

[Alex]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible) and Sphinx's Revelation.

[TubeHunter]

master of waves just has that oops, i win potential. tap 4 mana, put 14 power into play. aren't i good at magic

[rcwraspy]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible) and Sphinx's Revelation.

People are shitting themselves over it because it just won the pro tour. I dodged it at states yesterday (one of the top 8 guys was running it) and haven't played against it yet, but it seems to me that there are so many avenues of attack against it that are still decent
against other creature decks.

[Khaospawn]

Alex, at States there was a U/W waves deck doing exactly that.

And he was shitting all over the Red Decks.

[Alex]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible) and Sphinx's Revelation.

People are shitting themselves over it because it just won the pro tour. I dodged it at states yesterday (one of
the top 8 guys was running it) and haven't played against it yet, but it seems to me that there are so many avenues of attack against it that are still decent against other creature decks.

I think you're missing my point. The point is Master of Waves is not the reason the deck was successful. Thassa was.

[rcwraspy]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible)
and Sphinx's Revelation.

People are shitting themselves over it because it just won the pro tour. I dodged it at states yesterday (one of the top 8 guys was running it) and haven't played against it yet, but it seems to me that there are so many avenues of attack against it that are still decent against other creature decks.

I think you're missing my point. The point is Master of Waves is not the reason the deck was successful. Thassa was.

Nope, not missing your point at all. My first sentence was my response to "why are people shitting themselves over this card." The rest of my post was just continuing my other trains of thought, and weren't meant as a response to the Thassa comment. I get that Thassa's scry each upkeep is a powerful engine. There just isn't anything I can see to answer that in Black/Red, so it's a "suffer it to be so" thing if you're just in those colors. You just have to kill them in spite of it.

[Alex]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is
eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible) and Sphinx's Revelation.

People are shitting themselves over it because it just won the pro tour. I dodged it at states yesterday (one of the top 8 guys was running it) and haven't played against it yet, but it seems to me that there are so many avenues of attack against it that are still decent against other creature decks.

I think you're missing my point. The point is Master of Waves is not the reason the deck was successful. Thassa was.

Nope, not missing your point at all. My first sentence was my response to "why are people shitting themselves over this card." The rest of my post was just continuing my other trains of thought, and weren't meant as a response to the Thassa comment. I get that Thassa's scry each upkeep is a powerful engine. There just isn't anything I can see
to answer that in Black/Red, so it's a "suffer it to be so" thing if you're just in those colors. You just have to kill them in spite of it.

I'm pretty sure red decks can't beat Supreme Verdicts into Aetherling most of the time either. I get that the card "won a pro tour" and all but...it didn't win the pro tour, it just happened to be in the deck. Its like saying that Tom Martell won the pro tour because he was playing Doomed Traveler.

I'm not really attacking you in particular or anything, I just really don't want people to fall prey to the line of reasoning. (This card is nuts, look at the deck it was in!)

[rcwraspy]

I'm not sure why people are shitting themselves over Master of Waves. The deck wasn't good because of Master, it was good because Scrying
every single turn is fucking nuts in the hands of a powerful player. Even if you NEVER turn Thassa into a creature, the ability to manipulate the top that much is eventually going to win you the game regardless. I was more shocked that we didn't see her in a UW list with Supreme Verdicts (since she's indestructible) and Sphinx's Revelation.

People are shitting themselves over it because it just won the pro tour. I dodged it at states yesterday (one of the top 8 guys was running it) and haven't played against it yet, but it seems to me that there are so many avenues of attack against it that are still decent against other creature decks.

I think you're missing my point. The point is Master of Waves is not the reason the deck was successful. Thassa was.

Nope, not missing your point at all. My first sentence was my response to "why are people shitting themselves over this card." The rest of my post was just continuing my other trains of
thought, and weren't meant as a response to the Thassa comment. I get that Thassa's scry each upkeep is a powerful engine. There just isn't anything I can see to answer that in Black/Red, so it's a "suffer it to be so" thing if you're just in those colors. You just have to kill them in spite of it.

I'm pretty sure red decks can't beat Supreme Verdicts into Aetherling most of the time either. I get that the card "won a pro tour" and all but...it didn't win the pro tour, it just happened to be in the deck. Its like saying that Tom Martell won the pro tour because he was playing Doomed Traveler.

I'm not really attacking you in particular or anything, I just really don't want people to fall prey to the line of reasoning. (This card is nuts, look at the deck it was in!)

Did you watch the mirror match finals, though? It wasn't a Thassa vs. Thassa fight. It was a Master of Waves + Jace vs. Master of Waves + Jace fight. That's what
people will likely focus on, correct or not.