[Primer] RDW

[dpaine88]

If you want to be awesome vs monored, Firedrinker Satyr for Weird seems like the logical swap

[Str1fe5]

Man, pondering the possibilities of Nythkos, Shrine to Nyx can be exciting. I'm just afraid that deck space constraints might make it difficult to really use. Given most of us expect a lot of utility out of Boros Reckoner in the main, the deck is going to want something in the area of 19 or 20 red sources. After that, the remaining 2-4 slots generally are reserved for Mutavault because of its strengths against sorcery speed removal from control decks. So even with 23 land and 19 sources of red, you're really only looking at maybe 2 copies of the big mana dump land and 2 Mutas. I guess it's worth asking how often you can use that extra amount of mana in this deck? I mean the chances of lining up 1 of's with other 2 of's in the window where you can sequence them properly can't be very high.

I think it may just be an issue that the
card is probably better in more of a Big Red deck. Personally I'm still warring over main decking Chandra, Pyromaster over Purphoros, God of the Forge

[Verseau]

Ok just back from my local FNM
i won 4-0, wow, i can't believe myself, this is my first time playing as red mage.

this is my deck tonight
[deck]Verseau RDW
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Ember Swallower
2 Fanatic of Mogis
3 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
3 Mizzium Mortars

2 Awaken the Ancient
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet

22 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Act of Treason
3 Peak Eruption
2 Burning Earth
[/deck]

I know my deck is a little bit out of all the place, but i think that's the advantage of it.
it have extra oomph!!! and extra surprise, which win the game, no one expected to get sucker punched by Awaken the Ancient, and also no one expected that 2 extra damage from Pyromancer's Gauntlet make em burn to crisp, and lastly as Z stated Ember
Swallower extra toughness is just too good to be true.

1st opponent is Izzet Guttersnipe Control (lots of counter, and burn)
2nd opponent is Naya Stompy with loxodon smiter, advent the wurm, ghor clan rampager, polukranos, deadbridge goliath (all kind of fatty)
3rd opponent is White Weenie splash red (precinct captain, boros reckoner, soldier of the pantheon, archangel of thune)
4rd opponent is Naya Mythic Midrange (voice of resurgence, xenagos, domri, elspeth, polukranos, all kind of mythic into one)

i think my deck is strong vs the first 3 opponent, and i am just lucky winning the 4th one. his deck is just crazy, so much value there.

my MVP tonight is Pyromancer's Gauntlet, Ember Swallower, Hammer of Purphoros, and Stormbreath Dragon.
Ash Zealot, Boros Reckoner, and Chandra's Phoenix really does their job.
Chandra Pyromaster and Purphoros, God of the Forge mediocre good.
Fanatic of Mogis really does nothing.
Frostburn Weird also really good.
Awaken the Ancient come out twice and finish
the game.

Thanks you for all of you my red brother here (Zemanjaski, redthirst, alex, Khaosspawn, and many other i can't remenber, sorry)
i won't even think using Pyromancer's Gauntlet, Ember Swallower, Frostburn Weird, and Flames of the Firebrand if not for you guys.

[Zooligan]

So I have had some good results testing with rakdos shred-freak as "ash zealot 5-8", and I wondered if any one else has done anything with it? For the record I am specifically avoiding BTE for reasons of consistency, thus the double hybrid cost is not disadvantageous.

Yeah, I played something similar last week and am playing it again this week.

[deck] Hasty Devoted Fanatic[/deck]

Sideboard is tuned for the decks of the best players at my LGS.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Just got back from FNM. Super-tired, so please excuse me if this isn't perfect.

Ended up playing this before FNM:

[deck]Lands (22):
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21 Mountain

Creatures (29):
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

Spells (9):
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard (15):
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Burning Earth[/deck]

I played a best of three for fun VS Solemn10 (playing Jund) and went 1-2. Promptly demoted Purphoros to the sideboard and promoted the second hammer. Purphoros was absolutely abysmal. Also dropped the Nykthos.

FNM List:

[
deck]Lands (22):
22 Mountain

Creatures (28):
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis


Spells (10):
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard (15):
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
3 Burning Earth[/deck]

Went 2-1 for 6th place (out of 20).

First round VS Izzet Pyromancer

First game I grind him out with Hammer and the 9 lands I drew. Card makes up for my bad luck.

Second game, I draw a hand of 6 Mountains and a Cackler, mulligan into a no lander, then settle on a five of three mountains, Boros Reckoner, Ash Zealot. Next card was a second Reckoner, but it turns out that card is
bad vs Decks with [card]Turn // Burn[/card] and Rapid Hybridization and bounce.

Third game I kept a reasonable hand, but didn't draw burn. We went back and forth, and eventually it came down to me misreading a misplay (on his part) and guessing incorrectly that he wasn't holding burn. He ended up on 4 life after shocking my Fanatic of Mogis and cracked back for lethal.

Round 2 VS U/W Control (seemed pre-boarded for Red)

Game 1 I kept a loose hand because I didn't know what he was on. After 3 Revs, with a Jace on ultimate and Elspeth dropping dude 4-6, I scooped.

Game 2 FDS> RC + RC > CP > FoM = gg

Game 3 FDS > AZ > CP. Guy plays a T4 shock land untapped (goes to 6) and casts Verdict. I untap and double lightning strike him.

Round 3 VS U/B Cipher (same guy as last two events)

Game 1 +2 the same. Well timed removal embarasses his deck.

nThoughts:

Boros Reckoner is not worth losing Mutavault for. Not at all. This deck can operate without reckoner, and would be better for it.

Rakdos Shred-Freak did its job, but felt bad vs walls.

Frostburn Weird was teh suck.

Nykthos was terrible. easy to make sure it's just a colourless land.

Purphoros was bad in ALL matches. I sided him in each time to try him, and he was never active, not one time. Card does very, very little.

Moving Forward:

In Reid Duke's article on SGC, he talked about the devotion deck and the conflict with Mutavault vs Boros Reckoner + Fanatic. I now agree with him, that maxing out you red mana symbols to build around fanatic is probably incorrect. I'd rather
it hit for 5 than 7 and let me play mutavault. That said, here's the changes I suggest:

[deck]Creatures(23)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis

Spells(15)
3 Shock
4 Searing Spear
4 Magma Jet
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Land (22)
3 Mutavault
19 Mountains

Sideboard (15)
3 Burning Earth
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Act of Treason
2 Seismic Stomp[/deck]

I have a feeling I'm probably going to head back to something closer to Z's Pyromancer Red, unless something good pops up online. This one just felt too shaky to me.

I think my next deck I test will be something like:

[deck]Creatures (24)
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (22)
18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Spells (12)
4 Lightning Strike
4
Magma Jet
4 Shock

Sideboard (15)
2 Hammer of Purphoros
????
????
????
????
[/deck]

[Sasky]

Well I went 2-1 tonight, beating Dega Midrange and Mono Red. I lost to b/r midrange thanks to some insane draws (2x anger, whip + demon etc).

Despite the limited testing, I find that i want a 3rd peak eruption in my board. That card is just bonkers against any deck with mountains. I will cut a legion loyalist for it. Other than that i like the deck a lot, and it performed very consistently.

Updated list will be:

[deck]Creatures:24
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Firefist Striker
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:14
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:22
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard:15
1 Mutavault
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Peak Eruption[/deck]

[toddulent]

I am missing some key cards that are limiting my ability to play the decks I would like to play. I need some advice for what I should pick up ASAP. I do not have any of the following.

Boros Reckoner
Chandra, Pyromaster
Mutavault
Stormbreath Dragon

Should I pick up a playset of Reckoner first? At least of 2 of Chandra first? Mutavaults in 2-4 first? Should I worry about the Dragon until I get the rest? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Helios]

Dragon is lowest priority. I'd get the Reckoners, then play a vaultless Fanatic build to win your way into the Vaults and Chandras.

[Khaospawn]

Dpaine, I can slam Weird down a turn sooner. Plus he's two more devotion symbols.

Edit: just realized there was a whole other page to read. Dumb phone...

JS - man, sucks to hear that the deck didn't perform well.

[toddulent]

Dragon is lowest priority. I'd get the Reckoners, then play a vaultless Fanatic build to win your way into the Vaults and Chandras.

Thanks, Helios. That's what I figured.

[NorthRaptor]

If you are going to run the Dragon I think you want to bump up your land count to at least 23. You might even end up at 24 wtih 20 mountains and 4 mutavault.

If you look at the land chart in the primer, it helps you stay on curve significantly:

# - 1+/1 - 2+/2 - 3+/3 - 4+/4 - 5+/5 - 6+/6
18 - 93% - 76% - 54% - 34% - 19% - 9%
19 - 94% - 80% - 59% - 39% - 23% - 12%
20 - 95% - 82% - 64% - 44% - 27% - 15%
21 - 96% - 85% - 68% - 49% - 32% - 19%
22 - 97% - 87% - 72% - 54% - 37% - 23%
23 - 97% - 89% - 76% - 59% - 42% - 27%
24 - 98% - 91% - 79% - 63% - 47% - 32%
25 - 98% - 93% - 82% - 68% - 52% - 37%

[toddulent]

I was at 22 lands with a Fanatic build. Just to test, I upped the land count to 24 and cut 1 Magma Jet and 1 Fanatic. First opener had 4 lands, 2 GHC and 1 Phoenix. I drew into another Phoenix, then an Ash Zealot. Second goldfish, 3 lands, 1 Cackler, 1 GHC, 1 Magma Jet, 1 Phoenix. Drew 4th land. Just seems to run more efficiently with 24 lands even if I don't draw into a Fanatic.

EDIT: I'm wondering if Scry 2 is worthwhile. When I have 1 Magma Jet, it's nice. Multiples not so much.

EDIT 2: I dropped to 23 lands and put the 4th Fanatic in. Seems to draw perfectly. And Scry 2 was more helpful.

[Elricity]

(Editing post so it makes sense).

I still want to sit down and test Nykthos. This is the best test I can think of to find out.

Hypothesis: Replacing one Mutavault in a RDW that already uses Fanatic of Mogis with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx helps win the game better (defined as doing more damage to your opponent) than an extra Mutavault. Multiple Nykthos are not involved in this test.

Control Test: Play test with a deck that already uses a lot of red mana symbols and uses mutavault(s). Replace a single Mutavault with Nykthos. Play a gauntlet of games against the current meta. To save time playing games where you never see Nykthos, after resolving mulligans, ensure Nykthos is either in your hand or in the next 10 cards of your deck. If it is not, keep your hand but shuffle your library. Repeat until Nykthos is
near the top of the deck.

Play the game like you would in a tournament setting. However, do not scry away Nykthos or exile it with Chandra. Once you draw Nykthos, record the entire state of the game for both players (hand, battlefield, graveyard, and order of cards in library). At the end of the game, record the damage that Nykthos and Mutavaults combined caused throughout the game to your opponent. Record the game result and your opponent's life total if they won.

Experimental test: Restore the game state to the turn Nykthos was drawn. Now, it becomes a proxy for Mutavault. Replay the game from this point. Please avoid metagaming off previous knowledge. At the end, record the same results.

Conclusion: Repeat the control and experimental test as much as possible. Compare scores for each deck you played against.

Damage by Nykthos is defined as follows: Any damage, directly or indirectly, caused by any additional permanents, spells and effects paid for by Nykthos' devotion ability that you
otherwise could not have produced before the start of your next turn. In other words, if you use Nykthos to play a spell but have mana open at the end of your opponent's turn to cast other spells and you choose not to, then Nykthos caused no damage.

If your plan without Nykthos was to burn a blocker and swing, but now you have the mana to play another burn, only record the damage from the extra burn spell. If the extra mana allows to clear blockers that prevented your from attacking, then the damage from Nykthos is all the damage your creatures caused attacking the player that turn. If Nykthos allows you to cast other spells in order to leave mana open for a boros charm vs Supreme Verdict, record any future damage they cause that they would have been unable to deal due to being dead. You could probably discount any damage from phoenix's after you've burned a player and had the mana to recast it. Use your best judgment but keep it consistant.
n
If anyone sees any flaws in this test, please let me know.

[Alex]

I think the biggest argument against Nykthos is that it is an absolutely miserable card to have against control (since your devotion will be less than the activation cost a lot of the time) and Mutavault is really hard for those control opponents to interact with. Control is already a pretty good matchup, specifically Esper, so I can't imagine it would make a huge difference either way in an aggro mirror since you're not usually going to have time to activate it for value...

That being said, I'd probably rather just have those 'vaults in case I need to block a Blood Baron on the fly or something.

[Helios]

Mutavault for days. It allows you to play around Verdict/Anger, blocks Blood Baron, gets in extra points of damage, and has additional utility against aggro in a race. I won several games last night because my opponent was playing a devotion deck with only one Mutavault, and I saw mine regularly (3 MB in Pyrored).

I was at 22 lands with a Fanatic build. Just to test, I upped the land count to 24 and cut 1 Magma Jet and 1 Fanatic. First opener had 4 lands, 2 GHC and 1 Phoenix. I drew into another Phoenix, then an Ash Zealot. Second goldfish, 3 lands, 1 Cackler, 1 GHC, 1 Magma Jet, 1 Phoenix. Drew 4th land. Just seems to run more efficiently with 24 lands even if I don't draw into a Fanatic..

Use the charts to calculate draws until you've played 50~100 games with
a given list. You have to goldfish a really significant number of hands to get results that will be worth thinking about.

[toddulent]

Mutavault for days. It allows you to play around Verdict/Anger, blocks Blood Baron, gets in extra points of damage, and has additional utility against aggro in a race. I won several games last night because my opponent was playing a devotion deck with only one Mutavault, and I saw mine regularly (3 MB in Pyrored).

I was at 22 lands with a Fanatic build. Just to test, I upped the land count to 24 and cut 1 Magma Jet and 1 Fanatic. First opener had 4 lands, 2 GHC and 1 Phoenix. I drew into another Phoenix, then an Ash Zealot. Second goldfish, 3 lands, 1 Cackler, 1 GHC, 1 Magma Jet, 1 Phoenix. Drew 4th land. Just seems to run
more efficiently with 24 lands even if I don't draw into a Fanatic..

Use the charts to calculate draws until you've played 50~100 games with a given list. You have to goldfish a really significant number of hands to get results that will be worth thinking about.

Yeah. It's slow at work and I'm just goldfishing over and over. It seems best at either 23-24 lands. I've done about 15 for each. 24 is showing to be better.

[DarthStabber]

(I started typing this a few hours ago and just came back to it).

I still want to sit down and test Nykthos. This is the best test I can think of to find out.

Argument: Mutavault is better than Nykthos

Hypothesis: Nykthos' activated ability does more damage than mutavault's.

Control Test: Instead of putting Nykthos in the deck, replace it with another mutavault. Play as you normally would in a tournament except that to speed up testing and make a more reliable control, you may not scry away mutavaults or exile them to Chandra (undo an activation if you are unable to play it). When you draw your first Mutavault, record for later the entire state of the game. Continue to play as normal and record the game result as well as how much damage your Mutavaults
did to players and the number of permanents they destroyed throughout the game.

Experimental test: Restore the board state to the turn the first Mutavault was drawn. Now, it becomes a proxy for Nykthos. Future Mutavaults are still mutavaults. Record the game result as well as the total combined damage between Nykthos and Mutavaults to players and permanents destroyed.

Conclusion: Repeat the control and experimental test as much as possible. Compare scores for each deck you played against.

Damage by Nykthos is defined as follows: Any damage, directly or indirectly, caused by any additional permanents, spells and effects paid for by Nykthos' devotion ability that you otherwise could not have produced before the start of your next turn. In other words, if you use Nykthos to play a spell but have mana open at the end of your opponent's turn to cast other spells and you choose not to, then Nykthos caused no damage.

If your plan without Nykthos was to burn a blocker and swing, but now you have the
mana to play another burn, only record the damage from the extra burn spell. If the extra mana allows you to cast two burn spells to remove a blocker that prevented your from attacking when you were normally short mana, then the damage from Nykthos is all the damage your creatures caused attacking the player that turn, plus the destroyed permanent. If Nykthos allows you cast other spells in order to leave mana open for a boros charm and your opponent casts supreme verdict and you get to attack with everyone next turn, record any future damage they cause that they would have been unable due to being dead. You could probably discount any damage from phoenix's after you've burned a player and had the mana to recast it.

If anyone sees any flaws in this test, please let me know.

I'll leave the actual merits of nykthos to others, and focus my commentary on the minor procedural issues. First off assuming you are running a non-zero number of mutavaults a singleton nykthos you are not
achieving an accurate test as there is a non-zero chance that you would not have drawn nyk, but the vault. If you aren't running vaults then considering further vaults wysiwyg I also pretty jacked, in fact even moreso. For a more accurate result put a marker in one of the mutault's sleeve, and treat that one as the nykthos in the test, and the other mutavaults as mountians. Then your split point would become any vault. If you are running a pair of nyks then mark 2 vaults.

The other big problems is the presupposition that the only difference between a nyk deck and a vault deck is the nyk/vault. If I'm running nythos I am probably going to grab a card or two higher up the curve, or some more main deck manasinks.

[Link]

I think the test is flawed because you're testing two drastically different cards. Mutavault will always do more reliable damage than Nykthos, but Nykthos will occasionally accelerate you a mana or two early, and if thats what your deck is looking for and if it has very powerful 5+ drops, it might be worth running it just to have a "nut draw" that can be unsurmountable.

[Tyrael]

Well I went 2-1 tonight, beating Dega Midrange and Mono Red. I lost to b/r midrange thanks to some insane draws (2x anger, whip + demon etc).

Despite the limited testing, I find that i want a 3rd peak eruption in my board. That card is just bonkers against any deck with mountains. I will cut a legion loyalist for it. Other than that i like the deck a lot, and it performed very consistently.

Updated list will be:

[deck]Creatures:24
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Firefist Striker
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:14
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:22
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard:15
1 Mutavault
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Hammer of
Purphoros
3 Peak Eruption[/deck]

Forgive me if this seems like a foolish question but do you ever feel like running say, a couple Boros Reckoners over anything you have currently SB'd would have been useful? I'm trying to decide on what the ideal Reckoner/Mutavault combination would be and you seem to be the only person here that isn't playing Boros Reckoner at all. Could you explain your reasoning behind this (sorry, quite new to RDW and magic altogether)? This is probably the coolest deck I've encountered in this thread so far though!

[Link]

Its like saying "Will Kessig Wolf-Run or Desolate Lighthouse do more damage over the game?"

KWR requires a creature to be connecting, whereas desolate hight house will ALWAYS filter a draw-aka filter it into potential damage- yes?

But it should be a bit clear that comparing those two cards is silly because of the archetypes they fit into

EDIT: Oh shit howd id get in the RDW primer thread? I totally thought this was the mutavault thread.

Uh

yeah

I guess the experiment is sound because its based firmly in this archetype

carry on >_>

[Elricity]

I'll leave the actual merits of nykthos to others, and focus my commentary on the minor procedural issues. First off assuming you are running a non-zero number of mutavaults a singleton nykthos you are not achieving an accurate test as there is a non-zero chance that you would not have drawn nyk, but the vault. If you aren't running vaults then considering further vaults wysiwyg I also pretty jacked, in fact even moreso. For a more accurate result put a marker in one of the mutault's sleeve, and treat that one as the nykthos in the test, and the other mutavaults as mountians.
Then your split point would become any vault. If you are running a pair of nyks then mark 2 vaults.

The other big problems is the presupposition that the only difference between a nyk deck and a vault deck is the nyk/vault. If I'm running nythos I am probably going to grab a card or two higher up the curve, or some more main deck manasinks.

My test is built off the argument in the thread that I failed to summarize in my post. The other posters are saying that when you have room for spell lands even in a devotion deck, they should all be Mutavault as replacing any of them with a Nykthos weakens the deck. I have no interest in finding out the power of devotion decks vs non-devotion decks. I only want to find out if Nykthos is good in a red devotion deck in the current meta.

I don't want to attempt the complexity of testing multiple Nykthos at this time. If it's without value to add one, what's the chance it's worth it to add more than one?

I put the
Nykthos proxy rule in as a time saving measure to prevent having to grind through multiple games until you see a singleton. You are correct that you pollute your control test with games where you may have drawn Mutavault first so it's probably best to just resolve mulligans, reveal your hand and the top 5-15 cards of your library to ensure you'll draw Nykthos in the game. If it's not, shuffle your library (not your hand) and reveal again until it's there. You still want to record the board state (including both libraries) the moment you draw Nykthos.

I did forget to point out that these tests do require you and your opponent to avoid metagaming on knowledge you shouldn't have, particularly in the mirror game.

@ Fate: I was really confused there for a minute.

I'm just going to go clean up my other post so it's not a confusing wreck.

[dpaine88]

So he is where I'm at right now..

[DECK]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
3 Rakdos Shred Freak
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandras Pheonx
4 Fanatic of Mogis

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

2 Chandra, Pyromasncer
1 Hammer of Purp

21 Mountain
1 Mutavault
[/DECK]

REALLY REALLY Undecided if I want the 1 Hammer or the 2nd Mutavault. Hammer fits into Fanatic Plan better..


Got a buddy running the list I posted from last night tonight at the same FNM so we can compare.

Not sure if Rakdos Shred Freak is the right call but we will see... Figure I had to add the 4th Fanatic since this is really "all in" on devotion

[LP, of the Fires]

Just go -1 mountain, +1 muta.

Dat power do.

[Yarpus]

What about this...



It's pernament with RR in manacost. It screws UW HARD. Sphinx's Revelation? No. Counterspell? No. Anything? I mean... no.

[zemanjaski]

Thanks for the notes JS and Sasky, glad the deck is performing for you. It's a treat to have a red deck that actually plays magic.

[Str1fe5]

So I've got the deck ready to go but for the last 56 cards. I was all set to go with the Shred-Freaks but my friend sleeved up Strikers for me while I was at work and made a pretty strong argument that they just do more against mid range strategies and the mirror. Obviously you're getting an extra 2 damage in on curve but I think he's right that the extra red mana for devotion just isn't *that* much more important when your opponent is interacting with you anyway. Early testing confirmed this against B/W/R and G/R Monsters and even a mono black deck. I've only drawn the God in one game and it actually did a lot of work for me despite never quite getting the devotion to turn him into a creature. Dealing damage and being able to +1/+0 multiple creatures for 3 mana really helped drive damage through a stalemated board. Still might just be better as a main deck Chandra but for testing purposes I"m running the list I posted
before.

@JS I'm kind of shocked you have zero Reckoners anywhere in you 60 now. To be fair you played 3 blue based control decks where the Reckoner just isn't as strong but it has a lot of utility in virtually every other kind of match up.

[Jack]

What about this...



It's pernament with RR in manacost. It screws UW HARD. Sphinx's Revelation? No. Counterspell? No. Anything? I mean... no.

Never change, Yarpus.
I will never play that card in standard, but it was nice to see an oversized picture of it in the competitive forums.

[Lightning_Dolt]

It's not even that the event went badly (I was one misread away for winning game 3, round 1, to the eventual winner), it's that the deck felt clunky and worse than the other decks I've played with. If pyro red is the Autobahn, this deck feels like the Rubicon trail. Meta is also starting to shift and there's a lot more control this week. Reckoner and I are bros, but I like vault better.

[Yarpus]

Never change, Yarpus.
I will never play that card in standard, but it was nice to see an oversized picture of it in the competitive forums.

It's really fucking strong. I still remember when someone came up with it as a tech against Bant.

[DarthStabber]

Not sure if Rakdos Shred Freak is the right call but we will see... Figure I had to add the 4th Fanatic since this is really "all in" on devotion

You are not that far of what I am running (-2 chandra, -1 fanatic, +1 hammer, +1 mutavault, +1 shred-freak), and my testing has shown freak to be pretty darn good, by adding a second 2mana 2power haster you get a lot more consistency, it accomplishes much of what people think they are getting out of bte, and makes firefist striker a more reliable as a means of invalidating blockers (since half your creatures can now immediately contribute to battalion on the turn they drop).

Not sure about the value of being "all in" on devotion, because fanatic dropping and dealing 3 is still
pretty good considering he's still 4 power on the board. Even if you drop him on an empty board and he pings one, he's still a threatening presence. The way I hear people talk about him it seems like they're under the impression he's a sorcery.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Not sure if Rakdos Shred Freak is the right call but we will see... Figure I had to add the 4th Fanatic since this is really "all in" on devotion

You are not that far of what I am running (-2 chandra, -1 fanatic, +1 hammer, +1 mutavault, +1 shred-freak), and my testing has shown freak to be pretty darn good, by adding a second 2mana 2power haster you get a lot more consistency, it accomplishes much of what people think they are getting out of bte, and makes firefist striker a more reliable as a means of invalidating blockers (since half your creatures can now immediately
contribute to battalion on the turn they drop).

Not sure about the value of being "all in" on devotion, because fanatic dropping and dealing 3 is still pretty good considering he's still 4 power on the board. Even if you drop him on an empty board and he pings one, he's still a threatening presence. The way I hear people talk about him it seems like they're under the impression he's a sorcery.

Agreed. Hitting for five instead of seven and playing higher quality cards sounds like a good comprimise.

[Gigex]

I tried Zem's pyrored list at FNM tonight, went 4-0. Ironically i only drew the deck's namesake in ONE game lol. Regardless, the deck is really good. The one game i managed to play the pyromancer was against a white weenie deck, and it just wrecked him. Having Ash zealot and her first strike really gives the deck alot more play against bigger creatures and makes shock actually decent. Didn't miss BTE once tbh. I worry tho, that there will be games where you draw your pyromancers and don't get much burn to make him relevant. He seems like a horrible topdeck, but I haven't had that displeasure yet lol.

I also tested the devotion list and i gotta agree with JS. Mutavault is WAAAAAY more important than reckoner. It gives the battalion on firefist striker alot more consistency and is really good at applying pressure after a sweeper. You sacrifice about 1-2 damage from your fanatics, but the deck becomes alot more
consistent.................which, as "the red deck" is prlly the direction you should be heading in

[Zooligan]

Did pretty good with my Hasty Devoted Fanatic

[deck] Hasty Devoted Fanatic[/deck]

Biggest problem deck - Esper variant. Dude runs 14 instant-speed removal spells, plus Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere.

Biggest problem card - Desecration Demon. That card is a house!

I did win my two games against the Demon decks, but they easily could have gone the other way. The Esper match tho, blown out 2-0.
n
Open for ideas, but don't want to change things too much as it ran really good. Just looking for a little edge against that Esper deck. May drop the Hammer of Purphoros as I never activated it the whole night.

[dpaine88]

Yea, not sure if I want Freak or Striker in devotion list.

Tough ass decision

[Yarpus]

Freak improves your control matchup.
Striker improves your midrange matchup.
Both are meh against Aggro, on the other hand Frostburn Wierd is at least decent against any of the mentioned types of decks.
Trade with Smiter? Deal 4 damage on T3 without spending another card? Stonewalling even goddamn Chainwalker?
All bases covered.

[Zooligan]

Only thing missing is the haste...

[Khaospawn]

I took this embarrassing list to FNM:

[deck[

Creatures 28
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Burn 10
2 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

Land 22
22 Mountain

Sideboard 15
2 Burning Earth
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Act of Treason

[/deck]

I went 4-0.

The power of the Mogis is just...insane.

Also, I won every game in whch I resolved a Chandra. Bitch is powerful.

The highlight of the night was Mogi'ing for 10 off of my topdeck for the win against Desecration Demon.dec.

TR to follow..maybe. I'm drunk and I just want to pass out.

[Haiiro Sedai]

Freak improves your control matchup.
Striker improves your midrange matchup.
Both are meh against Aggro, on the other hand Frostburn Wierd is at least decent against any of the mentioned types of decks.
Trade with Smiter? Deal 4 damage on T3 without spending another card? Stonewalling even goddamn Chainwalker?
All bases covered.

He is also a sexy blue beast of a man.

Possibility storm is probably one of the worst suggestions I've seen in an aggressive deck with 22 land. It is plausible to consider making your opponent go into shock at the sight of uncastable garbage in your hand. Not too practical though.

I don't like all in devotion lists since pyro red looks more consistent and allows enough interaction to out play opponents.

[zemanjaski]

^ yeah I like Pyro more than Devotion for the same reason. Admittedly I routinely go to time with a red deck

[DarthStabber]

Yea, not sure if I want Freak or Striker in devotion list.

Tough ass decision

I just realized you were main decking reckoners where as I had strikers, so more different than I thought. My list basically assumes matchupe vs. Control or slower midrange, with striker and burn there to keep the avenues of attack open. Freak and striker go together, assuming a 1 drop then striker turn 2 you have 12 cards in the main deck that will activate battalion (4zealot, 4freak, and 4phoenix, and mutavaults on top of that). I m not focused on devotion for fanatic, but odds are it will be at least 3 he gets through, but sometimes he is going to hit big on the drop.