[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[dpaine88]

Sucks balls that SCG got a hold of that list...I was loving it and gonna use it at states..WTF

Two questions though : Whos the "MJ" from SCG? I gotta admit, I do read a lot of Premium to stay on top of the decks people are gonna copy etc.

Also, why is the list thats better against control include Firefist Striker when the one thats better in the open field not have it? Seems like you wouldn't want him vs control but you would want him against an open field..
t

[Alex]

MJ = Micheal Jacob.

[dpaine88]

Hmm ok, don't recall his articles from SCG but I'm not too familiar with the pros at all.


I gotta admit, I do really just LOVE Firefist Striker as a card and wouldn't be opposed to putting him in the maindeck.

God do I hate that sideboard though..

[LP, of the Fires]

Micheal Jacob feel off the Pro Tour I don't know when ago, but has no real interest on getting on again because it's more effort then it's worth according to him though he is VERY good and likely the best regular streamer by a fair margin.

He won US nats in '08 with demigod red(and I think the US might have won worlds that year), he has some GP top 8s and 1 pro tour top 8 if memory serves well. He's also the Darkest_Mage and hilarious.

[Alex]

Not gonna lie, I would not have gone to the PT if it wasn't being held in a place I had always wanted to visit anyway. Can't fault MJ for jumping off of that train.

[Yarpus]

Alex, if you'd talk about UR - try to get into the topic of Steam Augury. On the one hand, card is one of the stronger, early draw cards. It gets your whole engine running. On the other hand, it might result with loss of one of your Aetherlings (deck is pretty damn light on wincons - so that's a serious thing).

[PirateKingAtomsk]

- Something more about UR Control. You really got some people hooked into this thing (well... me for example) and I guess many of us would love to hear about your insights about the deck.
- Kuroda Boros maybe. Not sure if you touched this subject last time, but I believe archetype is still worth being touched. You can improve your game against control with moving Mizzium Mortars to SB and getting some sweet Boros Charms into main.
- Purphoros. Maybe you guys could find an application for this card.
- Sideboarding in new format. At least for RDW.

I hear purphoros into assemble wins games against alot of stuff with the limited amount of cards that will deal with them.

[redthirst]

I heard it loses games too by being two turns of tapping out to do absolutely nothing.

[Helios]

I was not a fan of striker in pyrored when testing. Mostly because you have to drop other cards to play it.

@red:

[zemanjaski]

Sucks balls that SCG got a hold of that list...I was loving it and gonna use it at states..WTF

Two questions though : Whos the "MJ" from SCG? I gotta admit, I do read a lot of Premium to stay on top of the decks people are gonna copy etc.

Also, why is the list thats better against control include Firefist Striker when the one thats better in the open field not have it? Seems like you wouldn't want him vs control but you would want him against an open field..
t

The BTE list with two hammers is the anti-control list.

My version of PyroRed doesn't run FFS. I like having an extra Chandra, Hammer and two more spells (which make everything else better in the deck).

[dpaine88]

Sucks balls that SCG got a hold of that list...I was loving it and gonna use it at states..WTF

Two questions though : Whos the "MJ" from SCG? I gotta admit, I do read a lot of Premium to stay on top of the decks people are gonna copy etc.

Also, why is the list thats better against control include Firefist Striker when the one thats better in the open field not have it? Seems like you wouldn't want him vs control but you would want him against an open field..
t

The BTE list with two hammers is the anti-control list.

My version of PyroRed doesn't run FFS. I like
having an extra Chandra, Hammer and two more spells (which make everything else better in the deck).

Unless I'm reading it wrong the BTE anti control list you posted has 4 firefist striker. Is that to shore up the other matchup?

[LP, of the Fires]

19 Mountain
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Magma Jet
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Shock
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Lightning Strike
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Fanatic of Mogis
SB: 4 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 3 Act of Treason
SB: 1 Mutavault
SB: 2 Hammer of Purphoros
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster
SB: 3 Burning Earth
SB: 1 Boros Reckoner

Current list. Gotta refine the board. Control is moving towards a bye assuming you hit 4 lands in boarded games.

[zemanjaski]

Sucks balls that SCG got a hold of that list...I was loving it and gonna use it at states..WTF

Two questions though : Whos the "MJ" from SCG? I gotta admit, I do read a lot of Premium to stay on top of the decks people are gonna copy etc.

Also, why is the list thats better against control include Firefist Striker when the one thats better in the open field not have it? Seems like you wouldn't want him vs control
but you would want him against an open field..
t

The BTE list with two hammers is the anti-control list.

My version of PyroRed doesn't run FFS. I like having an extra Chandra, Hammer and two more spells (which make everything else better in the deck).

Unless I'm reading it wrong the BTE anti control list you posted has 4 firefist striker. Is that to shore up the other matchup?

I need bodies for BTE to chain into and it's the best one in a swarm deck.

[TubeHunter]

Alex, talk about Maze's End.... You know you want to

[Haiiro Sedai]

Are there any other topics you guys would be interested in hearing me blather about? I'm going to do a few recordings to get used to the process, since James and I are gonna have a proper go at this whole podcasting thing.

If there are REALLY good ones you might be able to coerce me into getting them on tape while both of us are on Skype.

-Decks that have zero mountains.
-Theros block pauper
-Momir mana bases
-Thassa EDH combo




Trolling aside.


-Pitting Ur vs Ub vs Uw against the meta as it stands.
-Dissect the white weenie vs red weenie matchup.
-The possibility of Red Erebos control

[zemanjaski]

- yes, worth discussing
- WW isn't a real deck, RDW crushes
- I'm not sure about Erobos specifically but RB control has already seen some amount of success. It lines up well against UW and aggro. I'm not sure how good it is against Esper, would need to play the match personally.

Let me again reiterate that WW isn't remotely close to a real deck. Fiendslayer Paladin is unplayable outside of hexproof.

[LP, of the Fires]

MUST.

CRUSH.

Z.

WITH.

WW.

But seriously, I think white splash black is a fairly solid archetype if anyone bothered playing it.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd also like to add that I think Fabled hero, gods willing, and boros charm can create an archetype.

[Haiiro Sedai]

I don't think ww is a viable choice to win a tournament but it will be played. It got 9th in Worcester. Some of you old hats with red may be able to win that match in your sleep but I personally would like to hear how you value and play around brave, for example. I think it would be interesting.


RB control may or may not play Erebos but it's name is fun to say so that's what I'm calling it. Kind of line Dralnu control.



...
...

Erebos

[Yarpus]

I think this guy who played Wr Aggro on SCG had REALLY good matchup against RDW. He just folded to control.
WW sucks. WW with red splash for Boros Charm and Magma Jet... that's what I'd call maybe not contender of the format, but can-become-a-deck kind of deal. If someone will figure out construction, it could be pretty good.

[Haiiro Sedai]

Ww has sick draws but I think red has better individual creatures. The things ww (or wrw) can do rdw usually does better

[LP, of the Fires]

I actually was first shown the power of red when I played Dralnu control 6 years ago at Regionals. It was my first tourney, I had won my first to matches, then I got OWNED by this mono-red player. Greater gargadon, keldon marauders, seal of flame, the 3/2 flash split second fucker among other things was too much for a young LP to overcome.

And against white agro decks, I just mainphase removal whenever their tapped out to play around brave among other things.

There was a player at my store though who always did well with his white human deck, but it had resto, geist, thalia, and judges familiar to attack you from a ton of angles other then just champion of the parish beats.

[Haiiro Sedai]

I actually was first shown the power of red when I played Dralnu control 6 years ago at Regionals. It was my first tourney, I had won my first to matches, then I got OWNED by this mono-red player. Greater gargadon, keldon marauders, seal of flame, the 3/2 flash split second fucker among other things was too much for a young LP to overcome.

And against white agro decks, I just mainphase removal whenever their tapped out to play around brave among other things.

There was a player at my store though who always did well with his white human deck, but it had resto, geist, thalia, and judges familiar to attack you from a ton of angles other then just champion of the parish beats.

I think that was the year I top 8'd mine with Martyr-Proc.
Gods I miss that deck.

[zemanjaski]

WW basically lacks constructed playable keywords.

White creatures are better than red, but still worse than green.
They're not faster against control or midrange.
They don't have anywhere near the same interactivity that red has (falters, threatens, removal) or powerful abilities like haste, flying. Double-strike is good, but it only reinforces what their guys already do.

If it ever becomes popular, you can board to beat it pretty easily. Unprepared though, the more linear your own aggro deck is, the harder the matchup will be: AIR decks are very bad against WW; PyroRed is very good (can't kill YP or Chandra? Awkward).

You could always do what I did last season and board four Flames of the Firebrand, because reality.

[Yarpus]

God, I'm such a beginner. I've started playing MTG when first set of Scars of Mirrodin came. But I mostly did casual stuff with friends.
When Mirrodin Besieged came, I went for my first FNM with something that resembled UB Kibler's Infect (fuck yeah, weeks before UB Kibler's Infect became a thing!) without Phyrexian Crusaders, single Inkmoth Nexus and no manlands (4 buddy lands, 4 Jwar Isle Refugees). I played Plague Stingers, Thrummingbirds, Skithrix and shitload of permission. Scored 2nd place, lost to Kuldotha Red (but hey, he had triple Goblin Guide hand, next game I won and third he had Mox Kuldotha Mountain into Bushwacker into lord).
Around Mirrodin Besieged I've built UW Venser and then played it till Zen rotated. Didn't had big successes with but I've never dropped below 3-2, and often did 4-1 at the most competetive LGS in Poland. I got into ~top 60 of Polish players based on Planeswalker Points.
Oh, I've
had a huge influence into world's MTG scene as I was working my ass off to tell people that Tumble Magnet is actually really good in meta full of Swords and Crusaders. After week or two, every CawBlade started playing it. I have this pretentious belief that it was because of me.
Had a huge break from MTG, came back to play some shitty stuff like UG Ramp (I played Jin-Gitaxias and Emrakul to not mill myself. And 4 Consecrated Sphinxes [bought them for 1$ each because people are dumb]). And I played some shitty UR Counterburn during polish championships and I actually managed to get into day 2 but Day 2 had 2 drafts and suddenly from top of the standings I went straight into bottom).
And then I did a serious break again, and after the break I met Fires of Salvation.
[/rantaboutmymtgstorydoesntmatter]

[LP, of the Fires]

The deck I wished I played at that tourney was Dega Firemane control, but I was in high school and had no money for shocks. Angel of Despair and firemane avenger as win cons was sweet.

More on white weenie:

The thing with that archetype is that all of your interaction is creature based, which is fine so long as your creatures do uniquely powerful things.

Last season you had creatures that where force spike, taxing, removal, flash, and hexproof among other things. This season, you lose all of that except banisher priest which would be playable if sorcery pillar of flame hadn't been replaced by instant speed shock and magma jet.

While the non-creature support is there(spear of heliod, heliod himself, brave, god's willing, etc.) the creatures are too linear necessitating you to supplement your deck with another color.

Or maybe wescoe proves us wrong, but I'm doubtful and I'm a really big wescoe fan.

[zemanjaski]

The big draws for mono white weenie are:
- brave the elements (wait, that works in RW and GW)
- spear of heliod (ditto)
- Mutavault I guess??

You're not playing the best Mutavault deck either. I ditto LP ~ WW is only worth considering when the power level of individual cards is very high.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd also add that a WW agro deck is or at least should always be better then a GW agro deck.

GW makes VERY GOOD aggressive midrange decks, and very mediocre to bad agro decks.

[Valdarith]

It's okay, Yarpus. The last time I played Magic before getting back in during M13 was during Invasion.

Damn, I really aged myself with that comment.

[hamfactorial]

I played magic from Revised until Ice Age, then got back into it right before the AVR prerelease. Big gap, but I was happy to find that creatures were actually good because turning stuff sideways was always my go-to strategy.

[Haiiro Sedai]

Just because wescoe can win in a format with ww doesn't mean it is a good deck, it means you're the fucking king of all things plains. As a lover of all things white I would rock the shit out of ww if I thought it could compete, alas I am here instead.


The more I think on it the better I think RB control is positioned. Plenty of spot removal + anger + whip for life gain is a pretty solid anti aggro plan. You can even run weird or that 2/2 for 1B that can't die to damage (unless he rotated, no idea). Then you have a mix of spot discard and rakdos return to kick control in the teeth. For card draw you have UWC read the bones and Chandra. Maybe even an Erebos if you feel frisky.


EWP: I started during masques and I still love that set.

[Yarpus]

You can even run weird or that 2/2 for 1B that can't die to damage (unless he rotated, no idea).

He did.

The more I think on it the better I think RB control is positioned. Plenty of spot removal + anger + whip for life gain is a pretty solid anti aggro plan. You can even run weird or that 2/2 for 1B that can't die to damage (unless he rotated, no idea). Then you have a mix of spot discard and rakdos return to kick control in the teeth. For card draw you have UWC read the bones and Chandra. Maybe even an Erebos if you feel frisky.

I'd say RB could be very, very punishing for one, single, fucking reason. Slaughter Games your Aetherling. So now, you're left with Elspeth which will inevitably die to one of thousands of removal cards deck sports that can actually hit planeswalkers.

As a lover of all things white

I don't
really get why anyone would ever love White... but I don't understand a lot of things in the world.
I actually focused on Blue for a long time because of three reasons: a) couldn't play Red because my friend wanted all the red cards b) I like being an asshole ruining someone's day with permission c) after some time everyone considered me to be *just* a control player.

[warwizard87]

WW basically lacks constructed playable keywords.

I am not playable I only have bands with other.

[RedNihilist]

I started playing with Gatecrash.
Bash me.

[zemanjaski]

Awwww :'(

Ill band with ya. ^________^

[Haiiro Sedai]

The decks I have done the best with have all been white. I've mentioned my favorite several times (martyr-proc) but also ghazi-glare, hand in hand, Puresteel paladin, kithkin, No-Stick, speaking of, UW control in more formats than I can remember, greater gifts featuring the beating that is a Yosei lock, and some white Stax.

I miss fun white cards like Orim's Chant and Armageddon.

[zemanjaski]

Puresteel Paladin was a sweet deck.

[LP, of the Fires]

W/x is worth running because Spear is REALLY good and heliod gives you a manasink, an indestructible big beater, and all your dudes having vigilance is relevant in agro pseudo mirrors. You also have some solid creatures in soldier and precinct captain. I like pairing black with white cause caramel babies. I mean removal plus xatrhid necromancer. Additionally, the orhzov five drops are both very good and black adds lots of gas to your sideboard.

@Sedai: You're a horrible human being. Welcome to the clan. The least fair deck I've ever played was probably UR vore with boomerangs, sorcery boomerange(kamigawa eye to nowhere or something) and stone rains, plus volcanic hammers and other decent removal. Annexing someones karoo was also pretty dirty.

[RedNihilist]

W/x is worth running because Spear is REALLY good and heliod gives you a manasink, an indestructible big beater, and all your dudes having vigilance is relevant in agro pseudo mirrors. You also have some solid creatures in soldier and precinct captain. I like pairing black with white cause caramel babies. I mean removal plus xatrhid necromancer. Additionally, the orhzov five drops are both very good and black adds lots of gas to your sideboard.

I feel like there's too much WW in those casting costs...

[LP, of the Fires]

You'd be base white with a light black splash.

Really, that's how the majority of these two-color decks should be built. Nuwens rakdos deck is really Black agro splashing red for burn and rakdos casting costs. Thus having double whatever in one color won't matter since it's only that color that has the double whatever.