Kaze's Newbie Mafia (Mafia Win)

[imopen2]

@iso: I am voting checkbox because his post about meta information sounded like he was upset that you were already confirming town. Almost like he wanted RVS to continue and have someone slip up. I don't know if he is scum or not (it is only his first full game, although he seemed to do a lot of mafia research in the game he replaced into).

[imopen2]

Hence my frustration with suga's vote/possible attempt to have checkbox lynched without trial

[Iso]

Clownfish, the way Mafia is played here, you always want a day lynch. There's pretty much no info given out at night other than anything a PR may give. At other sites I've played, there's detailed night write ups and at those sites, a day lynch is not always useful.

Firstly, this post. Suga hasn't commented on the events transpiring up to this point - most specifically, the Checkbox wagon. This is Suga playing the "I'm an Experienced player helping the other players" card, which is fine on its own, but the lack of content here is distressing, given that Suga knows full well how to play Mafia. We're the Experienced players, we're supposed to be
taking the reins.

Power Role. Meaning a role that has an ability, whether it be vigilante, cop, census taker, etc.

Another post answering a question about the game.

That's what we're here for.

*Broken record a la Iso*

vote: Checkbox

Let's see what Mr. Hairbrush has to say for himself.

Here's where my REAL problem with Suga developed. Suga, having provided absolutely no original content so far in the game, pushed Checkbox past
L-2 (which is widely regarded as claim range on MTGS and so far on DTR). Why is this an issue? Well, there are a few things wrong with this. Firstly, putting a player at L-1 leaves room for somebody to "accidentally" hammer them. The "accidentally" is in quotes, because one of three things can happen here - either a scum player can pretend to accidentally hammer, a townie can legitimately accidentally hammer, or Checkbox can self-hammer. The issue with this is that it deprives us of valuable wagon information, (especially if Checkbox self-hammers) which is not something we want. Additionally, the other issue with this vote is that up to this point, Suga expressed absolutely no suspicion of Checkbox. It's like he's voting on a wagon for the sake of jumping on a wagon. It's too early to determine whether or not this means Suga is busing Checkbox (busing means one scum throwing another "under the bus", so to speak) or trying to get a townie quicklynched. Regardless of the
outcome, neither looks good for Suga.

Random votes are usually frowned upon and are seen as more of a scummy thing to do. I know Mr. Box's vote wasn't random, per se, but to me, it's a scummy thing to do and shouldn't be done by new or old players.

This is a really weak reason to vote for somebody, considering the game starts off with RVS. Additionally, why (to the newer players) would Suga not have voted Checkbox sooner if he legitimately believed his own explanation?

I would still vote for him regardless. I don't like a random first vote and I don't like a random first vote with a stupid reason even more.

Then why didn't you say
that sooner, and how do you expect the game to take off otherwise?

I don't even want a full claim from Boxxy in case he's a PR, I just want some confirmation that he's town.

Already asked, but how do you expect confirmation that he's town if not with a claim? What could he reasonably say at this point to make you believe he's town?

In this game, claiming is pointless since there's no characters to use as possible reference, but I'm Vanilla Town.

Why is claiming pointless? We have power roles.

-

I am ready to lynch DroppinSuga. When discussion has reached a close for the Day, I will happily hammer him. This is the best wagon we
have; I do not want to see it debunked. :armscross:

Also, the "meta information" question rubbed me the wrong way, Checkbox. Now I'm going back and explaining why I want to vote Suga.

What about it rubbed you the wrong way?

It was a weak attack, dude.

[DroppinSuga]

No dust off my shoulder.

[Iso]

Also, the "meta information" question rubbed me the wrong way, Checkbox. Now I'm going back and explaining why I want to vote Suga.

What about it rubbed you the wrong way?

I hope my last post answered this question for you.

[DroppinSuga]

I honestly could care less at this point. My day is so fucking shitty IRL, I'm not going to put the effort into defending myself. I'm Vanilla Town and the autopsy will confirm and those of you non-scummers on the wagon will feel like assholes.

[Stardust]

I never voted for suga and am still voting for checkbox

Checkbox is L-2

Oh. Yeah. On my skim back to count votes I must have thought you and Red were the same person. One of you has gotta get an avatar.

[Stardust]

I honestly could care less at this point. My day is so fucking shitty IRL, I'm not going to put the effort into defending myself. I'm Vanilla Town and the autopsy will confirm and those of you non-scummers on the wagon will feel like assholes.

While you almost certainly will be today's lynch, we'll be talking for a little while yet. If by some chance you actually are town, any insight you give now will help us Day 2.

[imopen2]

I never voted for suga and am still voting for checkbox

Checkbox is L-2

Oh. Yeah. On my skim back to count votes I must have thought you and Red were the same person. One of you has gotta get an avatar.

It ain't gonna be me

[DroppinSuga]

Well since no care, I bid you gentlemen ado and all the best.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote Count 1.01

DroppinSuga: Checkbox, TubeHunter, RedNihilist
Checkbox: Iso, imopen2, DroppinSuga

Not voting: Stardust, Clownfish, rcwraspy

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is October 11, 2013 12:00A.M. PST

[TubeHunter]

I kind of want to go along with Iso and Stardust and put some pressure on checkbox to start this game going, however I don't really want toacccedentally lynch a townie for not a great reason like that

"Not a great reason like that" being "I want to /barn Iso and Stardust"? (To /barn means to shamelessly agree with something with no addition of your own.)

No, it was mostly just a "lets get this game moving type of thing. But after more thought, I found that there really wasn't any good reason that I could find to vote box at that point in time,
so I just held off.

everything suga has done looks much more scummy than anything else so far...

Vote: DroppinSuga

Why?

After checkbox was put at l-2, then he quickly put another vote on box, looking like he was hurredly trying to get him hammered by a newer player or himself. His reasoning for voting checkbox also seems weak, with it mostly being: he RVSed me, so there!

Edit: my thoughts in red (okay to do that right?)

[Kazekirimaru]

Do not edit posts under any circumstance. Thank you.

Adding thoughts in quotes(so long as it's apparent you did so) is okay.

[TubeHunter]

My edit was to point out that my thoughts were in red, not to change the post. I was wondering if it was okay to use a different text color to point out my thoughts.

[Iso]

Well since no care, I bid you gentlemen ado and all the best.

It's "adieu".

Hope your day gets better.

If you could come back and answer my questions before the Day is over, that'd be great.

-

I like TubeHunter for town. Please don't edit your posts.

[Kazekirimaru]

It's common practice in Mafia to "Edit by way of double post" or EBWDP if you will. Simply quote your original post and make adjustments in the second.

But, yeah. Like I said, what you did with to express your thoughts in-quote is fine and is fine in most games as long as you don't use the mod's color text(since many use red.)

[DroppinSuga]

I don't feel like taking the time to answer your questions. My autopsy will say it all.

[Iso]

I'm going to post my full reads at this time. Nobody else really needs to do the same right now (except maybe Suga).

Town (This was blue but then I remembered Kaze's rule.)
imopen2 - Confirmed town to me for my opening gambit. Vote on Suga is fine.
Stardust - Scumhunting, beat me to the punch on Suga, pro-town motive.

Leaning Town
TubeHunter - Mindset comes across as newb town, fair rationale on actions so far.

Null
RedNihilist - Not enough content, or maybe I just don't remember his posts due to unfamiliarity with him/no avatar.
Clownfish - I can't tell if this guy is genuinely asking questions as a new player, or if he's scum-driven. Time will tell.
Checkbox - Was going to put him in leaning scum for the early
play but I can't really attribute a scum motive to his recent posts.

Leaning Scum
rcwraspy - Not much content, but this guy seems pretty content to discredit the push on Suga so far. IGMEOY.


DroppinSuga - No content, opportunistic vote on Checkbox, VT claim, nonsensical defense, refusal to answer questions.

[Iso]

Apparently the two posts before mine ate the bold red "SCUM" above DroppinSuga's name in that last post.

[DroppinSuga]

All I know is my role is green.

[Iso]

@Stardust, imopen, and TubeHunter: Suppose Suga is scum. Who, in your opinion, is most likely to be his scumbuddy? Conversely, suppose he is town. Who do you think the two most likely scum candidates are, in that case?

@Suga: Who are your scum reads, aside from Checkbox?

[DroppinSuga]

Nihilist is one that I feel is probably scum.

[Iso]

Why?

[DroppinSuga]

Because I looked at your list and used it.

[Iso]

...

-_-

That's not helpful at all.

Okay, I'm ready to end the Day after we get a few more comments from my Null section.

[imopen2]

I don't have anything confirmed yet other than my own role, but if suga is scum then I think either checkbox or clownfish are probable scum-partners with him. If he is town then I would need to reevaluate everyone.

[DroppinSuga]

You best get to reevaluating then.

[Stardust]

All I know is my role is green.

@Iso: I was just trying to figure that out, actually. No harm sharing, I guess.
- Checkbox is still on my radar as Suga's late vote could easily have been a bus, but his responses have felt fairly town to me.
- Red has too little content to call either way at the moment, but a bus seems very unlikely here. I guess he'd be someone to drill if Suga does flip town.
- rcwraspy had the same skeptical reaction as Checkbox to clearing you and imopen, but his questions and logical steps following felt townie. The only thing that raised my eyebrow here (and you might laugh at this) was his use of the word "clue&
quot;, a word which I think I've only ever seen noob scum use. You said "this guy seems pretty content to discredit the push on Suga so far"... where was that?

So I guess the short answer is that I'll be looking into Checkbox either way. We'll see what happens overnight and tomorrow though.

[Iso]

hey all. like a few of you, this is my first mafia game.

From what I can tell Iso's really coming out of the gates quickly here. I honestly have no idea what to make of that, but I also don't quite understand the vote for Checkbox. Could it be because of familiarity from previous games?

sheesh this sure is a mental game, isn't it. So doing a scummy thing poorly makes someone more townish? I'm not sure I buy that.

[quote="rcwraspy » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:38 pm&
quot;]

Ah, right. I only explained why it's not scummy, not why it's townie. Maybe you can tell me. What motivation would townIso have for posting something like that?

Well, if someone comes galloping in agreeing but using the wrong color, that would sure be a big sign. I guess the next logical thing to look at from there is why checkbox seemed to take exception to it.

But I know where TubeHunter is coming from. I feel like we need some more discourse in here to get the clues flowing.[/quote]

I GUESS I MISREMEMBERED DISCREDITING MY PUSH ON CHECKBOX AS SUGA. WHOOPS.

Oh well, dislike his last sentences there, too.

So yeah, this guy, Clownfish, and Checkbox are my top 3 after Suga. We'll see what happens at Night.

[TubeHunter]

Phone post, and probably the last for the real world day.

I don't really have a good read on any other potential scum. I would look into checkbox as well, though I find it odd that Suva would try to bus his only partner so soon.( though it is my first game, so whatever)

If Suva is town, then reevaluation like open said. Though I would like more of the other guys to chime about the game some more before truly reading the game.

[Stardust]

By the way, one thing that can come in handy in mafia (particularly in later Days) is being able to search all the posts of a specific player. This forum doesn't have an easy way to do this, so here's a link:

http://diestoremoval.com/search.php?t=1 ... r=rcwraspy

Just replace rcwraspy's name with whoever you want to search up.

[Iso]

If I had to guess what rcw stands for, it would be "red-colored wizard".

[Stardust]

He's a rouge deckbuilder. For real this time.

[Iso]

rouge
[roozh] noun, verb, rouged, roug·ing.
noun
1.
any of various red cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips.

-

I see what you did there.

[Clownfish]

As far as I can see I've only had one question addressed to me while I was away, so I'll respond to that and then give some general remarks:

I'm in one on-going game with Kaze (and on-going games are taboo to discuss for as long as they're on-going). Why do you ask?

It was an attempt to learn how likely it would be that you would know the color of the role PM's beforehand. To be completely honest, I'm somewhat suspicious of you. The method of placing yourself in someone's shoes that Stardust discussed does, however, make it seem more likely that you are town. Even if you are scum yourself, this gambit did in my eyes pretty much confirm imopen2 as Town. That means that if you would be scum, you would be trading off one confirmed townie for
being pretty much cleared of suspicion until far later stages of the game. It seems like a fair tradeoff. So the real question is, like Stardust suggested, how likely is the gambit to fail and how badly would your initial post reflect on you if it did?

Actually, after typing all that out and answering that question for myself, I've come to the conclusion that contrary to my intuition, it's more likely that you are town. I was probably just frustrated by what felt was a pretty patronizing series of posts by you, and allowed that to colour my judgement. Sorry I guess I'll still post these ruminations so that my reasoning is clear. Perhaps one of you experienced players can tell me/us something about whether that's wise.

With that somewhat settled, holy wow did a lot happen while I was playing FNM. I have to agree that Suga's behavior seems pretty scummy, especially when it was all but decided that he would be lynched
and he responded by more or less shrugging and going "fuck it". I'd think a townie should/would do anything in their power to turn their lynching into something that can benefit the survivors by analyzing their persecutor's posts to see who might be scum and calling out suspicious players. It seems like the best moment to post your reasoned indictments, as they gain tremendously in credence when your role is flipped.

After reading the thread, then reading everyone's posts sequentially, my estimation of everyone in order of likelihood to be town or scum is:
Town
imopen2
Iso
Stardust
TubeHunter
RedNihilist
rcwraspy
Checkbox
DroppinSuga
Scum

I don't have anything confirmed yet other than my own role, but if suga is scum then I think
either checkbox or clownfish are probable scum-partners with him. If he is town then I would need to reevaluate everyone.

Why do you think that I might be Suga's scum partner?

[RedNihilist]

So, I live in Italy and it's 2.15 AM here.
My day has been quite full as I work a full time job, then spend my evening playing FNM at two different stores - I sincerely couldn't post much more than what I did.

With that said, I'd also like to point out the fact that english is not my native language and I often end up reading the posts 2 or 3 times in order to be sure to get everything right, so please be patient with this poor newb.

Tomorrow I'll even put up an avatar in order to let you guys recognize my posts better

Now, speaking about Suga... I know he's been having a hard time and he's probably nervous and shit, yet the way he suddenly stood up and tried to get Checkbox dead quickly is suspicious - on the other hand, he's keeping on sayin' that he doesn't care about the game or anything, so
maybe we're even doing him a favour by lynching him.
We do want our fellow townies to be dedicated people, don't we?

[RedNihilist]

<- Now I've got a face.

[rcwraspy]

hi again.

Today was a travel day for me. My initial posts were done during a layover, and I'm at the hotel now. Just caught up on what's happened so far. I'll be completely away from internet tomorrow, so after tonight won't be posting again until Sunday early afternoon eastern time. I'm sorry for the lack of content, but I don't know how to read into things the way you guys do quite yet and I've been on airplanes today.

RCW stands for "Rackham Court West" - it was the name of the house I was in at college. "Raspy" was my nickname there.

@Iso, I think you later corrected it, but I don't believe I've said or done anything to discredit voting for Suga. In fact, what you've said regarding his posts makes sense to me and so far he's the best choice I think we have for a day 1 lynch.

That said, I didn't like Stardust's post where he quoted 2 of Suga's posts and bolded parts (bottom
of page 2). That seemed like splitting hairs. I've liked his other posts, but that one struck me as odd.

[rcwraspy]

hi again.

Today was a travel day for me. My initial posts were done during a layover, and I'm at the hotel now. Just caught up on what's happened so far. I'll be completely away from internet tomorrow, so after tonight won't be posting again until Sunday early afternoon eastern time. I'm sorry for the lack of content, but I don't know how to read into things the way you guys do quite yet and I've been on airplanes today.

RCW stands for "Rackham Court West" - it was the name of the house I was in at college. "Raspy" was my nickname there.

@Iso, I think you later corrected it, but I don't believe I've said or done anything to discredit voting for Suga. In fact, what you've said regarding his posts makes sense to me and so far
he's the best choice I think we have for a day 1 lynch.

That said, I didn't like Stardust's post where he quoted 2 of Suga's posts and bolded parts (bottom of page 2). That seemed like splitting hairs. I've liked his other posts, but that one struck me as odd.

Clarifying my last sentence. I mean to say, I've liked his other posts re: Suga.

[Clownfish]

Awesome, your avatar really makes the thread easier to navigate, thanks

I forgot about this:

Have you read the setup information?

I did. Did you mean to say that with this setup, the information we gain by night is limited? I figured that 2/6 setups have a cop. In an additional 2/6, there is a tracker. Both roles seem like they would offer quite a bit of nighttime information, though it is only available to the PR without exposing them to a mafia kill if they make it too obvious how they get their information. A jailkeeper can sometimes also randomly stumble upon a good bit of information on the first night. It seemed like this would make it likely enough
that some information were to come out of the night other than just the mafia kill. However, things having progressed as they did, I'm pretty content about the current bandwagon. I see how a lynch decision can be well-informed even on day one.