[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[zemanjaski]

Tec. edge is slow, but you only need it for decks with Path, which turn them on quickly; at least that's the idea.

[photodyer]

Just posted THS Intro Pack spoilers here. Is it just me or are we looking at some complex card mechanics?

[Kazekirimaru]

Just posted THS Intro Pack spoilers here. Is it just me or are we looking at some complex card mechanics?

Wizards a few years ago: "Let's not introduce too many complex mechanics for future players to have to learn."

Wizards now: "Fuck it."

[LP, of the Fires]

I randomly played against grixis delver in modern with tokens and it seemed decent. I probably would have 2-0'd him, but I only saw snappy's and regular grixis stuff, so game 2 when confidant was cast on turn I had the sads.

RE aggressive modern decks: Gruul in modern is very good. Tyler Lytle who I know personally top 16'd the last Modern GP with a fairly standard gruul list. If you're on a budget, the only things that you'd have to hold off on would be the goyfs, but the rest of the creature suite is all standard legal cards plus kird ape(Vexing devil, experiment one, BTE, Boar, Ghor-Clan) with a manabase of 4 stomping, 4 copperline gorge, 1 forest, 1 mountain, and fetches. The fetches can be replaced with pain lands mostly, though you'd probably want to up your basic mountain count slightly for boar. The spells are all cheap as well as your just on bolts, seal of fire, and dismember. It's actually very budget
friendly for red mages

Since you just want something aggressive for the tarmgoyf spot that can evolve experiment one, I'd probably go with Keldon Marauders off of the top of my head since you operate like a burn deck most of the time anyways. Vexing devil is actually fine in this deck since you're generally a turn 4 deck and it evolves experiment one.

Good luck Ham.

[Platypus]

^Here's the list:

[deck]Lands
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
1 Forest

Creatures
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Vexing Devil

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
2 Seal of Fire
2 Dismember

Sideboard
4 Pillar of Flame
1 Dismember
2 Combust
3 Blood Moon
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Smash to Smithereens
[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=92794#p92794:2wh2n6wt]Platypus » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:20 pm[/url:2wh2n6wt]":2wh2n6wt]^Here's the list:

[deck]Lands
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
1 Forest

Creatures
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Vexing Devil

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
2 Seal of Fire
2 Dismember

Sideboard
4 Pillar of Flame
1 Dismember
2 Combust
3 Blood Moon
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Smash to Smithereens
[/deck][/quote:2wh2n6wt]

Without Goyfs, [card:2wh2n6wt]Seal of Fire[/card:2wh2n6wt] and [card:2wh2n6wt]Tarfire[/card:2wh2n6wt] can be replaced with stronger cards. They're only really there for their card types.

[Platypus]

With that amount of fetches I'd put in Searing Blazes instead in a Tarmogoyf-less version, I run three with 6 fetches. My deck (untested though) has Stormblood Berkserkers and Rancors instead of Tarmogoyfs and Vexing Devils, but I'm think of dropping the Rancors for a set of Keldon Marauders. Or possibly Boggart Ram-Gangs or Burning-Tree Shamans. I have 19 lands, so the slight increase in mana curve might not be a problem.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Posted my list already. I don't care for the Nighthawk plan.

Found it. Why no Tribute to hungers? The lifegain seems absolutely necessary to have a chance against Kibler Gruul. Also didn't see the second video til about an hour ago so no Nighthawks. I was wondering why he had no Far//Away's in the first but "just forgot" is valid enough.

[Lightning_Dolt]

With that amount of fetches I'd put in Searing Blazes instead in a Tarmogoyf-less version, I run three with 6 fetches. My deck (untested though) has Stormblood Berkserkers and Rancors instead of Tarmogoyfs and Vexing Devils, but I'm think of dropping the Rancors for a set of Keldon Marauders. Or possibly Boggart Ram-Gangs or Burning-Tree Shamans. I have 19 lands, so the slight increase in mana curve might not be a problem.

I agree with the searing blaze option. Card is really strong, even in legacy.

[RedNihilist]

News from Kaze?

[redthirst]

Nothing afaik.

Dude probs needs some time.

[hamfactorial]

I randomly played against grixis delver in modern with tokens and it seemed decent. I probably would have 2-0'd him, but I only saw snappy's and regular grixis stuff, so game 2 when confidant was cast on turn I had the sads.

RE aggressive modern decks: Gruul in modern is very good. Tyler Lytle who I know personally top 16'd the last Modern GP with a fairly standard gruul list. If you're on a budget, the only things that you'd have to hold off on would be the goyfs, but the rest of the creature suite is all standard legal cards plus kird ape(Vexing devil, experiment one, BTE, Boar, Ghor-Clan) with a manabase of 4 stomping, 4 copperline gorge, 1 forest, 1 mountain, and fetches. The fetches can be replaced with pain lands mostly, though you'd probably want to
up your basic mountain count slightly for boar. The spells are all cheap as well as your just on bolts, seal of fire, and dismember. It's actually very budget friendly for red mages

Since you just want something aggressive for the tarmgoyf spot that can evolve experiment one, I'd probably go with Keldon Marauders off of the top of my head since you operate like a burn deck most of the time anyways. Vexing devil is actually fine in this deck since you're generally a turn 4 deck and it evolves experiment one.

Good luck Ham.

I have a budget Gruul Zoo list on MTGO, but only a handful of cards in paper. Here's what it looks like right now, with an asterisk next to the cards I don't have in paper -

[deck]
Lands
*4 Copperline Gorge
3 Stomping Ground
*4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Arid Mesa
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest

Creatures
*4 Experiment One
*4 Kird Ape
n4 Vexing Devil
4 Dryad Militant
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
*3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
*2 Scavenging Ooze

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile

Sideboard
2 Boros Charm
*2 Domri Rade
1 Hide//Seek
*2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Torpor Orb
*2 Vines of Vastwood
[/deck]

I could probably re-work the mana base to use my Scalding Tarns instead of the Catacombs.

[Khaospawn]

I just want to play Modern Goblins and rape face.

Do it, dude. The deck is so much fun to play.

Replace Wardriver with more Avalanchers. Fetches aren't necessary, but 1-2 Caverns are. Lastly, I'd probably cut the Commands for Bolt, simply because killing a DRS early is too good.

Also, more Blood Moon in the board.

Why do you suggest cards I don't have!

Seriously, the Wardrivers are stand-ins for the Avalanchers 3-4 that I currently don't have. I've thought about Goblin Kings instead, but I don't know, I have enough 3cc cards already. You're probably right about those fetches. I thought about the thining aspect and while it has a very small effect, it's still something. But perhaps it's not enough for the life loss and the fact that they give more fodder to the opponent's DRSs. But maybe if I drop the Krenko's Command and put in Searing Blaze instead of Lightning Bolts? But perhaps plain Bolts are better. Caverns would be nice, but I currently have none. I'm keeping an eye on their value though, looks like they're starting to drop a bit.

Blood Moons...yeah if I had more than 2 they would be in the SB. I just have to manage for now. And if I add Bolts/Searing Blazes to the maindeck, I'm thinking of removing the Arc Trails for a couple of Goblin Assaults.

I've been goldfishing
the deck a bit, and omg, it's very consistent in it's turn 3-4 kills. Won't be as fast in real games, but still.

Hey, you asked for what could improve the deck.

I'm being an asshole with my Goblin deck until I can get my 3rd Shared Animosity. I'm playing a singleton Blood Moon as a placeholder. Game 1 against Tron and American Control have never been so fun.

[Khaospawn]

I think my dream of making a mono Red EDH Minotaur themed deck with Tahngarth at the helm will become a reality.

And, of course, there's only one way to transport it:

---

Fuck. Yeah.

[Platypus]

Hey, you asked for what could improve the deck.

I really appreciated the comments, thanks. I was mostly wondering about the sideboard, but any comments on the maindeck are always great as well. It confirmed some of my suspicions about some of my choices. But about that sideboard...more Blood Moons is a no-brainer, but the rest...don't really know what to expect from my local meta either. Should I go with Smash to Smithereens or Shattering Spree? Sweepers like Volcanic Fallout? Torpor Orbs?

[DroppinSuga]

We at least know Kaze is alive and not in jail. He posted in the Blathering and Mafia threads.

[Khaospawn]

Hey, you asked for what could improve the deck.

I really appreciated the comments, thanks. I was mostly wondering about the sideboard, but any comments on the maindeck are always great as well. It confirmed some of my suspicions about some of my choices. But about that sideboard...more Blood Moons is a no-brainer, but the rest...don't really know what to expect from my local meta either. Should I go with Smash to Smithereens or Scattering Spree? Sweepers like Volcanic Fallout?
Torpor Orbs?

My original sideboard was built on the fly and I had no idea what to expect from my current meta. As it turns out, my board was highly geared towards aggro and was soft to what makes up the majority of my metagame: Tron, UWR, and Twin.

With Goblins, you don't want any boardsweepers (except for Electrickery) since you win by creating a huge board presence early and then use Burn for reach. For the decks that block well, you can always lean on Legion Loyalist - he's extremely useful against Lingering Souls! And as far as aggro decks go, I'm pretty sure that the big 2 you have to worry about are Soul Sisters and Affinity. Aside from playing Skullcrack in your board, Soul Sisters is just that one bad match-up you just hope to never encounter and there isn't much you can do to prepare against it. As for Affinity, I'd prefer to just use Smash to Smithereens since it helps chop that life total down, which is your ultimate goal anyway. Plus, Smash is pretty good against
certain versions of Tron.

Here's what I'm using:

[deck]
Sideboard
3 Blood Moon
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Combust
2 Dismember
2 Electrickery (or Skullcrack)[/deck]

[RedNihilist]

We at least know Kaze is alive and not in jail. He posted in the Blathering and Mafia threads.

Well, that's enough I guess.

[redthirst]

It's more than we know about Dane...

[Khaospawn]

The devotion mechanic type thingy on Thassa looks like it'll be pretty weird. Go over to Sally for spoilers.

But being indestructible is pretty spicy. And scry coming back? Aye carumba!

[Jack]

She seems neat. 3 mana for the chance to see 2 cards every draw step is really interesting, I just don't know where she'll fit in in Standard. I'm also contemplating her usefulness as a commander, and my thoughts right now are that she could work, but you just have so many better options for a general in mono blue. That being said, EDH does seem like a good home for her, and she seems like a good option for many mono blue decks. I really like how she's useful at pretty much every point in the game.

[Khaospawn]

I want to see more Merfolk in this set, goddammit.

[redthirst]

I don't know how I feel about the God mechanic. I imagine they'll all be Indestructable, but they can still be more-or-less nullified by simply killing off the other colored permanents and limiting the devotion to a certain color.

Like pretty much everything that has a conditional bonus, I guess it'll depend on how good the non-Creature mode is.

So far, I'm not loving the [mana]U[/mana] one - Scry 1 and [mana]1U[/mana]: Target Creature is Unblockable isn't the worst thing way to spend [mana]2U[/mana] I've ever seen, but it's not that great either.

[LP, of the Fires]

Too bad hellrider's rotating. I would love trying to make a janky u/r deck where I'm actively scrying away garbage each turn and making unblockable hellriders.

I personally like the idea of gods in enchantment mode as it's kind of flavorful. They influence the board for a while in a planeswalker esque way and when their servants have shown enough devotion, BAM, 5/5 indestructible beatstick.

Interested in seeing the green one as that's the color that tends to have a lot of "green matters" cards as far as manacosts go.

[redthirst]

Someone said we were getting a Giant Snake 5/5 for [mana]GG[/mana] - that seems like it'd make a pretty good "god shell". Tack an Exploration onto that and you've got something.

[Link]

Yeah that snake is definitely gonna have devotion on it.


Hybrid mana costs work too I bet. Mystic-> Giant Snake ->Burning Tree Burning Tree-Burning Tree! Swing with 5/5! CACKLE

[Valdarith]

Hybrid costs do work, which makes BTE even more insane. I feel like green is going to have it pretty good after rotation.

[rcwraspy]

Someone said we were getting a Giant Snake 5/5 for [mana]GG[/mana] - that seems like it'd make a pretty good "god shell". Tack an Exploration onto that and you've got something.

The only problem with that is that they said the Gods would have their own mechanic, and it looks like Devotion is it. But the green God isn't a Snake - it's some archer chick.

So to me, that leaves some variation of Bestow for the GG 5/5 Snake, using the same mechanic as, but likely in a different way than, the new Archon that was spoiled.

[Link]

well seen raspy.

[Platypus]

Hey, you asked for what could improve the deck.

I really appreciated the comments, thanks. I was mostly wondering about the sideboard, but any comments on the maindeck are always great as well. It confirmed some of my suspicions about some of my choices. But about that sideboard...more Blood Moons is a no-brainer, but the
rest...don't really know what to expect from my local meta either. Should I go with Smash to Smithereens or Scattering Spree? Sweepers like Volcanic Fallout? Torpor Orbs?

My original sideboard was built on the fly and I had no idea what to expect from my current meta. As it turns out, my board was highly geared towards aggro and was soft to what makes up the majority of my metagame: Tron, UWR, and Twin.

With Goblins, you don't want any boardsweepers (except for Electrickery) since you win by creating a huge board presence early and then use Burn for reach. For the decks that block well, you can always lean on Legion Loyalist - he's extremely useful against Lingering Souls! And as far as aggro decks go, I'm pretty sure that the big 2 you have to worry about are Soul Sisters and Affinity. Aside from playing Skullcrack in your board, Soul Sisters is just that one bad match-up you just hope to never encounter and there isn't much you can do to prepare against it. As for Affinity, I'd
prefer to just use Smash to Smithereens since it helps chop that life total down, which is your ultimate goal anyway. Plus, Smash is pretty good against certain versions of Tron.

Here's what I'm using:

[deck]
Sideboard
3 Blood Moon
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Combust
2 Dismember
2 Electrickery (or Skullcrack)[/deck]

That very close to what I have right now:

[deck]SB
2 Blood Moon
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Combust
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Dismember
2 Arc Trail
[/deck]

I don't think we have any Soul Sisters players, but who knows, we have always had diverse metas. We do have Affinity players and Tron. Pod decks I'm unsure of, which is why I'm not really considering Torpor Orbs. Jund players are almost certain, and various UWR decks.

I'm mostly wondering about those two Arc Trails. I'm thinking of putting two Pithing Needles there instead (don't have any Phyrexian Revokers).

[Khaospawn]

Torpor Orb kills your own Foundry Street Denizen, Mogg War Marshal, and Bushwhackers. Not a good idea lol

Pithing Needle is such a reactive card and I never think it's a good idea for a Red Deck to resort to it. The thing is, we win with damage and it doesn't further our agenda. With that said, I only think certain reactionary cards are worth playing if it stops a strategy that will outright take a game away from us, like using Faerie Macabre to keep a 3rd-4th turn Elesh Norn from resolving in a Gifts deck. Blood Moon is used to either slow down or freeze land based decks in its tracks allowing us to keep beating them down.

In regards to Soul Sisters, it's not the the second turn Martyr that hoses us. Its the little dudes that keep gaining life for every Goblin we play, along with a giant Ascendent or Pridemate. The key is to keep them from making a huge presence so we can play guys and swing unopposed. Even if they're
at 40 life, 3-5 goblins with a Shared Animosity can still take them down. Hell, I've beaten Soul Sisters with nothing but triple Goblin Guide, but that's not something you want to bank on every game.

I think using Electrickery to wipe out their early game life gainers may be what we need. But I could be wrong though.

[Platypus]

Yeah, I know. I'm just too scared of the Pod and Soul Sisters decks, so I actually considered it despite that...But Pithing Needle helps against those as well.

[Platypus]

So, M14 drafts...any good strategies? My FNM this week is M14 draft and 2HG Standard. I'm considering the draft, but I haven't drafted since Time Spiral/Planar Chaos/Future Sight, so it's all new for me. I've done lots of sealed but I'm not sure if that has helped me.

But anyway, M14 drafts...I've gotten the feeling that blue is the thing to go for?

[Khaospawn]

I edited my post with some knowledge, son!

[Khaospawn]

As for the Pod MU, we also have Dismember, Macabre, and Smash. All very useful. Plus, we still aim to win before they go full retard.

[Platypus]

Yeah, I think I worry too much about it. I blame my inexperience with the format.

[Valdarith]

So, M14 drafts...any good strategies? My FNM this week is M14 draft and 2HG Standard. I'm considering the draft, but I have drafted since Time Spiral/Planar Chaos/Future Sight, so it's all new for me. I've done lots of sealed but I'm not sure if that has helped me.

But anyway, M14 drafts...I've gotten the feeling that blue is the thing to go for?

Blue is by far the best color, but people have wisened up to that fact and will likely attempt to draft it aggressively. It's mostly a bomb format so cards like Sengir Vampire and Serra Angel are excellent nonblue first picks, which is not a revelation since Serra Angel was a P1P1 in M13 as well.

Don't be afraid to switch color(s) after your third or even fourth pick though. For
instance, I was almost positive I was going blue at my prerelease until I noticed some decent red cards getting passed to me in picks two and three. Then I got passed a Chandra's Outrage at P1P4. I slammed it down, got passed another at P1P5, and immediately changed my draft strategy to end up in RG. I placed second in the event.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Check out the Discussing M14 draft video on the WOTC channel on you tube. Its god himself (LSV) going through the main m14 draft archetypes and the necessary cards to make them work. Very good watch.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

http://youtu.be/V6YX3eJftqQ

[Kazekirimaru]

News from Kaze?

Kaze is prescribing himself escapism tactics a la Netflix, running, and food.