[Primer] The Aristocrats

[Khaospawn]

That's straight breaking my brain. I'm not a fan of one-ofs...

Dude, I know exactly what you mean. That's why I bumped up to 2 Restoration Angels.

[redthirst]

redthirst needy? Now I've heard it all.

It helps to be humble when you want help and have nothing to contribute...

Just don't get too used to it.

[Khaospawn]

redthirst needy? Now I've heard it all.

Just don't get too used to it.

I never will.

[LP, of the Fires]

Just for Redthirst:

2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
2 Mark of Mutiny
2 Tragic Slip
1 Skirsdage High Priest
1 Lingering Souls
1 Mentor of the Meek

That should hopefully be more weildly if you're still interested but want more intuitive boarding.

[photodyer]

@Jerry: There actually is merit to you pursuing your pet deck if you really want to dedicate yourself to it, but generally for a PTQ, if you consider yourself a good enough player, you don't need an angle. You just have to take a good, proven deck and play tight while your opponents beat themselves for the first 5 rounds. Once you get to "crunch time" hope you get in the zone and play amazing magic because then your competition will be really good and you'll(hopefully) be playing some amazing games.

Thanks, LK...I do want to push myself to be a better, more well-rounded player. I can see weaknesses in my deck, but I need to get playing outside of home and the fishbowl and see what it can do with tweaking. I need to
bite the bullet and get my Resto's on MtGO and just start logging some games.

As to the PTQ and GP trial--not going to happen this time. I just realized that they are scheduled on windstrider's birthday, and friends come before cards at this point in my life. I will be having to bypass getting dreamcrushed in Magic for getting Nerfed into oblivion (and relaxing with some cool peoples). I'm sure we will be far from Competitive-level play, but I'm betting that the board chatter afterwards is going to be a hell of a lot more entertaining than a post-mortem of me getting schooled.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I will write a report for Sunday's GP:T later today

---

I finished 3rd out of 41 players.

I lost to something similar to this deck twice, once in the Swiss (0-2), once in the Top 8 (1-2).

[deck]Creatures (11)
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells (23)
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Blasphemous Act
3 Dreadbore
4 Faithless Looting
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Searing Spear
2 Tragic Slip
2 Unburial Rites

Lands (26)
4 Blood Crypt
3 Clifftop Retreat
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Vault of the Archangel

Sideboard (15)
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Gloom Surgeon
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Tormod's Crypt
n1 Tragic Slip[/deck]

A humanless (so Z is right, the human theme isn't super important), much more midrange version. The ones that I played against played more Thundermaw Hellkite (which was back breaking), Bonfire of the Damned, and multiple main board Blasphemous Act. They also gum up the board with Rakdos Keyrune. They REALLY go over the top.

[zemanjaski]

Looks like a worse version of the Dega Midrange deck I posted a week ago. It isn't really an Aristocrats deck though.

[LP, of the Fires]

Dega midrange, or like I like to think of it, Dega Jund. I think the deck is generally beautiful to look at, but I've tested several versions, and it felt like a weaker jund deck. Instead of ramp, it plays an extra land and more powerful cards. The problem I feel is that you have a lot of draws that are very sketch against aggro. If you aren't expecting aggro, it's fine, but otherwise...I don't like feeling like I have to draw perfect.

But that's all way off topic. Fighting this deck, I'd suggest bringing in Obzedat, High priest, and Threaten affects while taking out lingering souls and shaving probably silverblade and something else, don't know what.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Looks like a worse version of the Dega Midrange deck I posted a week ago. It isn't really an Aristocrats deck though.

The deck looks unpolished, but it was tough to play against. I think it still counts as the Aristocrats because it has has a lot of cards in common and runs Falkenrath Aristocrat + Lingering Souls. I can't imagine them being good against non-aggro lists, as they play like a control deck with a tonne of sweepers and big creatures. I imagine Bant / Esper Control would make them look foolish. None the less, I lost to it twice, so I respect the deck / deck builder.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Dega midrange, or like I like to think of it, Dega Jund. I think the deck is generally beautiful to look at, but I've tested several versions, and it felt like a weaker jund deck. Instead of ramp, it plays an extra land and more powerful cards. The problem I feel is that you have a lot of draws that are very sketch against aggro. If you aren't expecting aggro, it's fine, but otherwise...I don't like feeling like I have to draw perfect.

But that's all way off topic. Fighting this deck, I'd suggest bringing in Obzedat, High priest, and Threaten affects while taking out lingering souls and shaving probably silverblade and something else, don't know what.

I sided:

+2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad,
+2 Obzedat, Ghost Council, +2 Mark of Mutiny, +1 Aurelia, the Warleader, -1 Silverblade Paladin, -2 Skirsdag High Priest (even though he did a tonne of work G1, they have a lot of sweepers), -4 Knight of Infamy (Pro white wasn't relevant)

Might be incorrect.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Sorry this is brief, but enough time has lapsed that I don't remember that much.

Round 1: Junk Rites (2-0) -3 Garuuk, response, Orvhov Charm your Smiter, extend hand.
Round 2: Jund Aggro (2-0) Steal and Sac works pretty well here.
Round 3: WBR Midrange (0-2) Notes say I flooded G1, Screwed on 3 lands with 4 4+ CC cards in hand.
Round 4: Gruul Aggro (2-1)2x Stromkirk Noble + no removal got me in G1. Nearheath Pilgrim did so much work in G2 +3.
Round 5: Esper Control (2-0) Was deck checked for the first time during this round. Was also accused of cheating (but no warning) by the head judge, another first.
Round 6: ID (opponent declined my offer to play the match for fun)
Top 8:
Esper Control (2-1) Opponent from round 6. I killed all three of his Obzedats, and smashed him before he could mill me in 2x games. He milled me game 2.
Top 4: WBR Midrange (1-2) Different Opponent. Won game 1 on the draw with 3x Double Striking Demon Tokens. Mull'd to 5 game two and lost. Game 3 was close (on the play with a mull to 6), but multiple Thundermaws vs no removal doesn't end well.

[redthirst]

Thanks K, that SB is significantly more intuitive and a much better starting place until I get some familiarity with the list.

[zemanjaski]

I don't think dega midrange looks or plays anything like an Aristocrats deck. Also, the deck only has 2 aristocrats in it!

[photodyer]

Zeman,

Dega midrange doesn't act at all like Aristocrats as you say. And just for sake of discussion, here's the list you proposed. There are quite a few similarities between your proposal and the list above. I'm guessing that the pair of FA's are to offer some earlier pressure outside of LS and to potentiate TS Morbid. Assemble the Legion..hmmm

Zemanjaski Dega Midrange (draft)
[deck]Creatures
4 boros reckoner
2 aurelia, the warleader
2 obzedat, ghost council
2 olivia voldaren

Spells
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 dreadbore
4 faithless looting
4 lingering souls
2 mizzium mortars
2 rakdos's return
3 rolling temblor
2 ultimate price
3 unburial rites

Mana Base
4 blood crypt
4 clifftop retreat
4 dragonskull summit
4 godless shrine
4 isolated chapel
3 sacred foundry
2 vault of the archangel[/deck]

[LP, of the Fires]

While I appreciate the enthusiasm my brothers, I think the DEGA midrange discussion should be relegated to another thread unless we're talking about matchups specifically.

@PHOTO, if you feel like digging through the clan thread, I linked a daily that had a list of B/W BA zombies that I think you'd be interested in.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm 0-2 against Dega Midrange, but I think that is mostly because I wasn't expecting it and didn't prepare for it. I'm pretty good against jund, but this m/u feel harder. Lingering Souls is a pain to deal with. Might need to find room for 2x Thundermaw Hellkite in the board if it becomes a thing.

If you guys feel that version doesn't belong here, I will remove it from the primer.

[photodyer]

While I appreciate the enthusiasm my brothers, I think the DEGA midrange discussion should be relegated to another thread unless we're talking about matchups specifically.

@PHOTO, if you feel like digging through the clan thread, I linked a daily that had a list of B/W BA zombies that I think you'd be interested in.

Sorry to muddy the waters, LK...I wasn't trying to promote midrange discussion so much as taking advantage of Johnny's post to compare the differences in Z's list and clarify that midrange is indeed not Aristocrats.

[LP, of the Fires]

Hellkite is too hard on the mana generally.

There are actually lots of Aristocrat decks that have a single Curse of Deaths hold in the board specifically for the mirror match and it has the benefit of being playable against any deck where you expect muddled board states and/or opposing lingering souls.

Jerry, no need to apologize, I was just making sure we don't go TO off-topic.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Hellkite is too hard on the mana generally.

There are actually lots of Aristocrat decks that have a single Curse of Deaths hold in the board specifically for the mirror match and it has the benefit of being playable against any deck where you expect muddled board states and/or opposing lingering souls.

Jerry, no need to apologize, I was just making sure we don't go TO off-topic.

I had that for a while, but wasn't seeing mirrors so I was never siding it in . I swapped it out for one Aurelia, because I love slamming her down and extending the hand, but I think she is a "win-more" card in general. I generally
can cast it, but not on T6. Asking for on T5 is probably too greedy.

What do you guys think of Rakdos Charm in the board over Purify the Grave? I saw this in a 4-0 MODO list and it got me thinking. I lost a game to Sorin Tokens + [card]Runechanter's Pike[/card] last weekend. Might be nice to have the charms back. Is it just too greedy?

[LP, of the Fires]

I think Rakdos Charm is an acceptable card. It's purify that nukes the yard and is randomly relevant at killing people. Swing with aristocrat, sac 3 guys. You have 4 creatures, Rakdos charm players? *extend hand*

Yeah, charms fine as a 1-of because even though it is color intensive, you probably aren't casting it before turn 4 anyways by which time you should have falkenrath mana which includes the same colors.

Has anyone played the version with Sublime archangel? I have zero interest in that deck, but would be curious to here how it plays out.

[LP, of the Fires]

Dega midrange, or like I like to think of it, Dega Jund. I think the deck is generally beautiful to look at, but I've tested several versions, and it felt like a weaker jund deck. Instead of ramp, it plays an extra land and more powerful cards. The problem I feel is that you have a lot of draws that are very sketch against aggro. If you aren't expecting aggro, it's fine, but otherwise...I don't like feeling like I have to draw perfect.

But that's all way off topic. Fighting this deck, I'd suggest bringing in Obzedat, High priest, and Threaten affects while taking out
lingering souls and shaving probably silverblade and something else, don't know what.

I sided:

+2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, +2 Obzedat, Ghost Council, +2 Mark of Mutiny, +1 Aurelia, the Warleader, -1 Silverblade Paladin, -2 Skirsdag High Priest (even though he did a tonne of work G1, they have a lot of sweepers), -4 Knight of Infamy (Pro white wasn't relevant)

Might be incorrect.

I would have boarded similarly most likely. I wouldn't take out priest or bring in sorin, mostly because there deck has a large range of fliers that eat sorin for breakfast. Lingering souls can't protect him because hellkite and Olivia eat them for breakfast and Aurelia lets you double up on combat steps.

Priest is still good postboard functioning as a must answer
threat. I'd probably board in the third priest(if one existed). I'd probably board out lingering souls since it's actively bad versus all there fliers, though it's still good versus liliana and Rakdos's Return. It would depend on what else I had in the board. I'd definitely want all the tragic slips since all of there creatures are good and you can just lose to any of there fliers. Having answers for Obzedat is important as well.

Depending on there cards, you could board in a number of other things. [card]Curse of Death's Hold[/card](would make your 2 drops trade with Boros Reckoner, blanks Falkenrath Aristocrat, lingering souls, and opposing sorin's); War Priest of Thune for opposing curses, Oblivion Rings or Assemble the Legion; Duress if you want to be disruptive; [card]Sever the
Bloodline[/card] if you're playing for the REALLY long game and just as a value card that also blanks Unburial Rites if they keep that in.

With the list I posted Earlier, I'd probably go

-1 Lingering Souls, -4 Knight of Infamy, -4 Champion of the Parish, -1 Silverblade Paladin

+2 Obzedat, Ghost Council, +1 Mark of Mutiny, +1 Zealous Conscripts, + 1 Sever the Bloodline, +2 Duress, +1 Skirsdag High Priest, +2 Tragic Slip

Taking out all the souls with my list would be too ambitous, but taking out the human package is likely correct since I'm better set up to play around sweepers. I can still apply some pressure while disrupting them more then they can me and while they exhaust removal on 1/2s, I get to hold mine and go crazy stealing there guys with my 3 threaten affects and hopefully out Obzedat them.

Note: There are still enough Humans to power up FA.

[photodyer]

LK, does Slaughter Games has a place in the sideboard given how the meta is developing? It seems like chunking Fagtusk or AoS from all these Farseek-driven decks would be worthwhile.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Dega midrange, or like I like to think of it, Dega Jund. I think the deck is generally beautiful to look at, but I've tested several versions, and it felt like a weaker jund deck. Instead of ramp, it plays an extra land and more powerful cards. The problem I feel is that you have a lot of draws that are very sketch against aggro. If you aren't expecting aggro, it's fine, but otherwise...I don't like
feeling like I have to draw perfect.

But that's all way off topic. Fighting this deck, I'd suggest bringing in Obzedat, High priest, and Threaten affects while taking out lingering souls and shaving probably silverblade and something else, don't know what.

I sided:

+2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, +2 Obzedat, Ghost Council, +2 Mark of Mutiny, +1 Aurelia, the Warleader, -1 Silverblade Paladin, -2 Skirsdag High Priest (even though he did a tonne of work G1, they have a lot of sweepers), -4 Knight of Infamy (Pro white wasn't relevant)

Might be incorrect.

I would have boarded similarly most likely. I wouldn't take out priest or bring in sorin, mostly because there deck has a large range of fliers that eat sorin for breakfast. Lingering souls can't
protect him because hellkite and Olivia eat them for breakfast and Aurelia lets you double up on combat steps.

Priest is still good postboard functioning as a must answer threat. I'd probably board in the third priest(if one existed). I'd probably board out lingering souls since it's actively bad versus all there fliers, though it's still good versus liliana and Rakdos's Return. It would depend on what else I had in the board. I'd definitely want all the tragic slips since all of there creatures are good and you can just lose to any of there fliers. Having answers for Obzedat is important as well.

Depending on there cards, you could board in a number of other things. [card]Curse of Death's Hold[/card](would make your 2 drops trade with Boros Reckoner, blanks Falkenrath Aristocrat, lingering souls, and opposing sorin's); War Priest of Thune for opposing curses, [card]
Oblivion Ring[/card]s or Assemble the Legion; Duress if you want to be disruptive; Sever the Bloodline if you're playing for the REALLY long game and just as a value card that also blanks Unburial Rites if they keep that in.

With the list I posted Earlier, I'd probably go

-1 Lingering Souls, -4 Knight of Infamy, -4 Champion of the Parish, -1 Silverblade Paladin

+2 Obzedat, Ghost Council, +1 Mark of Mutiny, +1 Zealous Conscripts, + 1 Sever the Bloodline, +2 Duress, +1 Skirsdag High Priest, +2 Tragic Slip

Taking out all the souls with my list would be too ambitous, but taking out the human package is likely correct since I'm better set up to play around sweepers. I can still apply some pressure while disrupting them more then they can me and while they exhaust removal on 1/2s, I get to hold mine and go crazy stealing there guys with my 3 threaten affects and
hopefully out Obzedat them.

Note: There are still enough Humans to power up FA.

I sided Sorin over Skirsdag because they were running a lot of sweepers, but you're probably right on Sorin just eating one. When I played him I -2'd him right away so I was still getting value if he died.

Are you still running Warpriest of Thune? I noticed most of the MODO guys have dropped it.

For my sideboard, I'm thinking:

2x Obzedat, Ghost Council (I've played like 60 games with the deck and haven't draw or cast him yet, I really like the thought of playing him though)
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (Has worked really well)
1x [card]Curse of Death's Hold[/card] (I consider this to be a flexible slot, as there are no mirrors at my LGS, but there are in the bigger tournaments)
4x Nearheath Pilgrim (Does SO much work vs. Aggro.)
2x [card:
1suzd5b5]Purify the Grave[/card] /Rakdos Charm (Curious about trying Rakdos Charm, might be able to open this slot though because I don't see much reanimator / have trouble beating it with steal effects)
2x Mark of Mutiny ( Broken with sac effects)
2x Tragic Slip (I consider these to be flexible slots too)

I'd love feedback.

[photodyer]

The 6th place deck at PTQ Theros...maindeck VNH with no Resto.


[deck]Mana Base
4 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel

Creatures
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Knight of Infamy
2 Silverblade Paladin
3 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Zealous Conscripts

Spells
3 Lingering Souls
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Tragic Slip

Sideboard
1 Cathedral Sanctifier
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Faith's Shield
2 Mark of Mutiny
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Rhox Faithmender
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Tragic Slip
1 Vampire Nighthawk[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

The 6th place deck at PTQ Theros...maindeck VNH with no Resto.


[deck]Mana Base
4 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel

Creatures
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Knight of Infamy
2 Silverblade Paladin
3 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Zealous Conscripts

Spells
3 Lingering Souls
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Tragic Slip

Sideboard
1 Cathedral Sanctifier
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Faith's Shield
2 Mark of Mutiny
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Rhox Faithmender
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Tragic Slip
1 Vampire Nighthawk[/deck]

nThat's an interesting choice.

I see VNH filling two roles:

1) Lifegain VS Aggro

2) Speed Bump VS Aggro / Midrange

VNH is competing with Nearheath Pilgrim in the lifegain category.

I'm not sure it does it's job as well, since it costs and isn't a human. Cavern can name Vampire over Human in a pinch, but I think you are sacrificing some synergy. Nearheath Pilgrim has been an all-star for me. Is it working out well for everyone else? I guess if you're expecting Rolling Tremblor / Pillar of Flame / non-miracled Bonfire of the Damned VNH makes more sense. I guess it would be pretty good against RDW / Naya Blitz that don't run as muck burn if
you're expecting a lot of that.

I see him as competing with Boros Reckoner in the speed bump category, and I don't think he's better.

In spite of all of that, VNH has always been a pet card of mine, so I might just have to try it out.

[LP, of the Fires]

Your board looks fine Jonny, though I probably wouldn't cut the tragic slips any time soon. They still seem very relevant in the meta.

VNH while not something I'd typically play actually seems really sweet. While the mana is a little tricky, it's not like cavern on vamp is dead since you also run FA and VNH can actually race aggro unlike reckoner which can just wall. Imagine attacking for 3 exalted a turn against naya blitz while KoI stonewalls white creatures and your other guys are blocking profitably.

RE My Board: I'm wary of dropping priest because I like the fact that he gives me an answer to problem permanents but he really isn't a necessary board card. SOmething I want to try is faiths shield. I've played with that card before and it's another thing that is just impossible to play around that can lead to huge blowouts.

I also know how you feel about not ever casting Obzedat. I don't know how many games
I played before actually casting sorin.

[photodyer]

LK, does Slaughter Games has a place in the sideboard given how the meta is developing? It seems like chunking Fagtusk or AoS from all these Farseek-driven decks would be worthwhile.

Hey LK--I think this post got lost in the jumble above. Thoughts? I spent a bit of time reading through the Aristocrats and Jund threads over on Sally and this is hanging in my head.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've seen slaughter games used in Aristocrat boards before. If I where to bring it in versus Junk, I would name AOS first 95% of the time with tusk being second. Against the Sphinx's Revelation decks, you just name Revelation, easy enough. I'd probably stick with just threaten affects myself and an Aggro game plan versus blue decks, but if Games is your thing, I can respect that.

[photodyer]

I've seen slaughter games used in Aristocrat boards before. If I where to bring it in versus Junk, I would name AOS first 95% of the time with tusk being second. Against the Sphinx's Revelation decks, you just name Revelation, easy enough. I'd probably stick with just threaten affects myself and an Aggro game plan versus blue decks, but if Games is your thing, I can respect that.

I agree AoS goes first...made that comment overnight on Sally when I was bored and needed something to do (all my clan brothers were sleeping with a few overseas exceptions). I will have to think on that...stealing and saccing is definitely a favorite play of mine from Dos Rakis, and the possibility (even though mana intense) of even more shaming by
stealing and blinking with Resto for keepsies is even more appealing.

[photodyer]

I just ran onto a list that gets to what windstrider and I were trying to do. Check this out:

[deck]LANDS (24)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Clifftop Retreat

CREATURES (24)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Skirsdag High Priest
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Blood Artist

INSTANTS and SORCERIES (12)
4 Tragic Slip
4 Lingering Souls
3 Blasphemous Act
1 Faithless Looting

SIDEBOARD
2 Duress
2 Intangible Virtue
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Searing Spear
2 Skullcrack
2 Slaughter Games
2 Tormod's Crypt[/deck]

I'm not sold on the sideboard necessarily, but this is the BA/BA engine we wanted to run, and I think it works this way because of all the token fodder. I might want to trade in two of the high priests for Sorin, I think, as he supports the engine better, but then
again the demon engine could be potent as well. Thoughts?

[Pendulum]

I think you really want Sorin. High priest is kewl tek and all, but overreaching for the effect can cost you pretty bad if they have the well-timed removal or sweeper. Like I'm imagining a lot of situations where you'll need to get in those last few points of damage with Cartel Aristocrat and the Sorin emblems seem invaluable there.

[LP, of the Fires]

I don't know if a magic deck exists that wants as many high priests as it does one drops. Snarkiness aside, I really don't like that list to much. It has no real aggro draws, but plays 4 FA. It has a completely random faithless looting. To many high priest it looks like. No real synergy with the sac outlets besides doomed traveler. It looks like a bad midrange deck with a combo in it. That's my inital impression.

I don't get it. Seems like various other decks can "do it better."

[photodyer]

I get it, but only because I was thinking down the path to begin with. This deck doesn't want to play exactly like Aristocrats, but it will to an extent. It wants to get out tokens for Artist triggers and to set up Blasphemous Act. If possible, it wants both things to happen at once as that is likely game if they do. That's the point of the Looting as well--to dig for the combo pieces. I'm not saying that this is constructed well, nor that it is comparable to standard Aristocrats for flex or aggro ability...it is a pull-the-chair-out deck. Does that make sense? Kinda janky, yes, and I agree that the priests are over the top. I think Sorin would suit the overall deck functionality better. This is a "one event" type design, which is sort of what windstrider and I were looking for just to shake the tree at my LGS for a week or two. Or even better, play this out one week, then come back playing real
Aristocrats once everyone is siding for the combo action.

[LP, of the Fires]

Thanks for the explanation photo. While I was laying in bed eating cough drops like candy, I sorta came to the same conclusion looking back at the things we discussed. The deck does make sense now in that light and there very much incentive to play this style of deck to try and spike an event. Give it a whirl.

@Johnny, I actually looked at MODO daily results finally and the pilot of the build running mainboard VNH is actually a forum goer of MTGS I believe. You can probably PM him on that site to get actual reasons for Nighthawk as opposed to my baseless speculation.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Do you know his user name by chance? I'll ask him and post it here.

I can't find the list anywhere but in Photodyer's post lol.

EDIT: Dug a little, think I found it.

[LP, of the Fires]

I believe the name is Kazuya Mishima or something along those lines.

Also, Jacob van Lunen wrote in his state of standard article(or whatever) that he just won a PTQ with aristocrats and think's it's very well positioned, particularly skirsdag high priest(I'd agree). He recommends playing more then 2 and played 4 himself. I'd want to play 3 maindeck and 0 in the board myself.

Next week he's going to post his decklist along with sideboarding guide.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I believe the name is Kazuya Mishima or something along those lines.

Also, Jacob van Lunen wrote in his state of standard article(or whatever) that he just won a PTQ with aristocrats and think's it's very well positioned, particularly skirsdag high priest(I'd agree). He recommends playing more then 2 and played 4 himself. I'd want to play 3 maindeck and 0 in the board myself.

Next week he's going to post his decklist along with sideboarding guide.

I hope I sent the PM to the correct person... lol

I can't see playing 4x Skisdag... Two feels right to me, three seemed like too much. I played three and cut back to two to fit a Resto, and that was something I was happy to top deck, where SHP really isn't.

[photodyer]

Funny...we're here talking about toning down high priests and Van Lunen pops up in the article LK pointed at and says high priest is well-positioned to play as a 4-of. Trying to shoot a moving target, metagaming is...

[Lightning_Dolt]

Funny...we're here talking about toning down high priests and Van Lunen pops up in the article LK pointed at and says high priest is well-positioned to play as a 4-of. Trying to shoot a moving target, metagaming is...

Yeah, I really don't know.

I'm thinking about running Martel's list from PT: Montreal -4 Boros Reckoner +4 Vampire Nighthawk tonight at FNM. I'm really not sure if that'll be better than what I have been playing though.

Another reason VNH is good, it can trade up with a 3/3 Stromkirk Noble, or prevent a smaller noble from attacking. Haven't heard back from the PTQ top 8 guy yet, but I suspect that may be one of the reasons for non-humans.

[Pendulum]

I just ran onto a list that gets to what windstrider and I were trying to do. Check this out:

[deck]LANDS (24)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Clifftop Retreat

CREATURES (24)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Skirsdag High Priest
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Blood Artist

INSTANTS and SORCERIES (12)
4 Tragic Slip
4 Lingering Souls
3 Blasphemous Act
1 Faithless Looting

SIDEBOARD
2 Duress
2 Intangible Virtue
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Searing Spear
2 Skullcrack
2 Slaughter Games
2 Tormod's Crypt[/deck]

I'm not sold on the sideboard necessarily, but this is the BA/BA engine we wanted to run, and I
think it works this way because of all the token fodder. I might want to trade in two of the high priests for Sorin, I think, as he supports the engine better, but then again the demon engine could be potent as well. Thoughts?

Anybody interested in broaching discussion on a more controlling version using... er, try not to laugh, Stuffy Doll? Got into a discussion about a ur/urw version of the deck last night, but not to the point where I'd come up with a list yet.