[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[DarthStabber]

I think the issue isn't that a "controlish" deck would be better, it's just that burn isn't well positioned in Modern.

I am not saying that was looking at a control deck due to positioning, but due to the fact that I haven't played a constructed control deck at a non-pauper sanctioned event in about a decade. It's about rounding out my skillset.

[Alex]

Awesome, thanks Z.

Alex, your article is fantastic. Lot of good stuff. Esper is a little too pricey, and thanks for talking me out of Affinity; I assumed Mox Opals were the only expensive thing there but I forgot I'd have to get all the other little $1-$4 cards.

There's also this Rock Infect list that I have in my next article. I'll share it here for your sake, but non-mods haven't seen the article yet.

[deck]Rock Infect by Rawksus[/deck]

I would only make very minor changes to the deck, I think. Probably play Liliana of the Veil instead of Wrench Mind, for instance, but beyond that I think the deck is perfect the way it is. When you get right down to it, this deck might as well be the quintessential "The Rack" deck, except instead of that clock it chooses to play Infect.

[photodyer]

As a beginning guitarist, playing something so complex such as this on the piano completely amazes me. We use our left hand to find the right notes and only need to use the right to sound the correct string. She plays the same notes at the same tempo, but she uses all 10 fingers, along with both her wrists and her elbows, on an instrument twice the size.

Piano isn't that hard. I learned to play as a kid, and later on in life learned to play a bunch of other instruments (flute, clarinet, trumpet, alto sax) and it's just a different skillset. Not inherently more difficult, just different.[/
quote]

Piano is no harder than any other instrument, however playing well at that level is extremely difficult and takes years of dedicated training and practice. Piano isn't one of the most difficult instruments in a vacuum because you hit a given key and get a given note (assuming the thing is tuned) every time. Off the ground, French horn and violin are two of the most difficult instruments owing to the fact that you have to be able to "hear" the correct note in order to play on key, just like voice--no automatic notes. But as you advance in studies, piano is one of the most difficult virtuoso instruments because of the sheer complexity and demanding nature of the pieces at the top.

[Alex]

I fail to see your point. Playing the sax at a high caliber requires tons of mechanical skill as well, not to mention the ability to make use of circular breath. Basically any instrument with a reed is playing by ear, exactly like french horn or piano.

Like I said, it isn't more or less difficult, it's just different. The only real exception is reedless woodwind instruments, which are basically all the same once you know the notes as breath patterns don't really fluctuate.

[Alex]

And fuck, my band geek is showing. Ugh.

[Kazekirimaru]

All instruments are difficult to play exceptionally.

[Alex]

All instruments are difficult to play exceptionally.

I thought that too, until I learned to play flute. That damned instrument is a joke.

[Kazekirimaru]

Plus the music you play is a huge factor. You'll have a much easier time with bass guitar if all you play is three-chord rock than if you were to aspire to be a jazz musician.

Like the flute. Flute is probably pretty straight forward, yeah, but i'd like to see a guy just pick up a flute and rip out an incredible jazz solo like in Anchorman.

[Alex]

Plus the music you play is a huge factor. You'll have a much easier time with bass guitar if all you play is three-chord rock than if you were to aspire to be a jazz musician.

Like the flute. Flute is probably pretty straight forward, yeah, but i'd like to see a guy just pick up a flute and rip out an incredible jazz solo like in Anchorman.

It's by far the most linear instrument I've ever played, personally. You play the exact same note one thousand times and it will sound exactly the same each time. I got a bunch of scholarships for playing flute, but eventually I just got so sick of it that I dropped out of my music major entirely.

Some variations of the flute are a little more difficult depending on the bore, because some notes can be
bent, but for the most part they're all snoozeville.

[Kazekirimaru]

It's like you've never heard of Jethro Tull.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'll try and chat to him on facebook, back soon.

Dat help.

[zemanjaski]

Check out my recent friend adds; it's insane.

[zemanjaski]

But yeah he's pretty high on the list; a lot of what he said I really liked too. Ill post the discussed list and notes tomorrow; it does need 4 Liliana; 8 fetches and 4 Mutavault though. So probably not budget enough, even if they're the cheap fetches.

[Kazekirimaru]

Job interview in nineish hours.

[Alex]

I played a Vampire list at the Gatecrash Game Day. Deck seemed good, I just wished I had fetches and Lightning Bolt in the format. Stromkirk Captain was an absurd card, especially with Vampire Nighthawk around. I can't imagine the ugly shit it would do with Bloodghast.

At least with fetches the deck can actually play Vampire Nocturnus again. Hmm.

[Khaospawn]

Someone recommend me a super-cheap modern deck that is competitive pls. (Yes Alex, I'm reading your article )

Goblins. It's surprisingly good. The most expensive card is probably Goblin Guide or Shared Animosity.

[Khaospawn]

Awesome, thanks Z.

Alex, your article is fantastic. Lot of good stuff. Esper is a little too pricey, and thanks for talking me out of Affinity; I assumed Mox Opals were the only expensive thing there but I forgot I'd have to get all the other little $1-$4 cards.

There's also this Rock Infect list that I have in my next article. I'll share it here for your sake, but non-mods haven't seen the article yet.

[deck]Rock Infect by Rawksus[/deck]

I would only make very minor changes to the deck, I think. Probably play Liliana of the Veil instead of Wrench Mind, for instance, but beyond that I think the deck is perfect the way it is. When you get right down to it, this deck might as well be the quintessential "The Rack" deck, except instead of that clock it chooses to play Infect.

I actually put this together last night night before I went to bed. I can't wait to get some games in with it. I was playing the Mono Black version for a few weeks and it
always seemed starved for mana in the early game. DRS should fix that.

[Alex]

So here's my shot in the dark at James' elusive Vampires list. Let me know how close I am.

[deck]Modern Vampires[/deck]



Maybe too many lands, (deck could probably function on 21) and maybe Nykthos is bad. I am kind of curious to test a version of the deck that plays Nykthos and awesome cards like Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief though. Also probably needs Viscera Seer or something.

[Khaospawn]

So here's my shot in the dark at James' elusive Vampires list. Let me know how close I am.

[deck]Modern Vampires[/deck]



Maybe too many lands, (deck could probably function on 21) and maybe Nykthos is bad. I am kind of curious to test a version of the deck that plays Nykthos and awesome cards like Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
though. Also probably needs Viscera Seer or something.

Bingo.

[Alex]

Yeah I could see cutting the 2 extra lands and another Ruthless Cullblade for some Viscera Seer. I recall him being pretty baller with Nocturnus, I imagine he's exponentially more baller with Blood Artist.

[Alex]

Keep in mind this list was a random throw-together at 4am. I'm just wondering if great minds think somewhat alike, because I was considering adding a Vamps list to my article once I actually got a chance to play with it some. (Since budget casual players love tribal decks.)

[zemanjaski]

If you take out all the shit cards, sure.

[photodyer]

I fail to see your point. Playing the sax at a high caliber requires tons of mechanical skill as well, not to mention the ability to make use of circular breath. Basically any instrument with a reed is playing by ear, exactly like french horn or piano.

Like I said, it isn't more or less difficult, it's just different. The only real exception is reedless woodwind instruments, which are basically all the same once you know the notes as breath patterns don't really fluctuate.

You're welcome to your opinion, Alex...I just don't happen to agree with it. I've spent my life in music as well, and the last 10 years immersed it the instrument world. The execution of the most demanding of the piano concerti (a list which is subject to a whole different
slew of arguments) is more demanding and complex than any single-note delivery. Seriously...there's a reason that piano is the centerpiece of solo music...the sheer number of top-tier festivals and level of competition at such speak to that. I completely agree with you that any instrument taken to its utmost is challenging in the extreme, but the complexity of piano at that level is above and beyond. If nothing else, just do the math of having to control the number of variables in a single piano chord...there is no comparison in terms of complexity. But again, your opinion is your own, as is mine...

[zemanjaski]

Shadow Alley Denizen; barely 23rd draft playable, now seeing eternal play....no.

[zemanjaski]

Goblin Guide is fringe playable in modern, just saying.

[Khaospawn]

He's not as good as he was in Standard. In Modern, he's outclassed easily and since most decks play 22-25 land, he pretty much draws your opponent a card. In tribal Goblins he's a little bit better there because he can receive buffs from Chieftain and Shared Animosity. Plus he's a target for Goblin Grenade. You won't get value like that when you slot him into Burn, a deck that seems to be getting worse and worse as the format progresses.

[Khaospawn]

Still, triple Goblin Guide hands are very hard for a lot of decks to beat lol

[zemanjaski]

Burn just isn't a deck in any format. As the card pool expands and better creatures and cards appear in other colours at 1-2 cost; the most linear possible strategy is going to get worse and worse and worse.

[Khaospawn]

Agreed. Though I keep trying to make some version of Burn work in Modern. I'm at the point to where it's just a bastardized version of Goblins and Burn, but at that point, I may as well play Goblins. All formats have evolved to where having a board presence is not only encouraged, it's necessary. True combo decks and true control decks are the exception, I guess. You're either on one side of the fence or the other.

Until they can improve the quality of Burn, like making things like Searing Blaze and Price of Progress (cards which have tremendous value), Burn will continue to be on the decline as better creatures come out.

[DarthStabber]

http://youtu.be/WxB1gB6K-2A

Laughed so hard I thought I'd suffocate.

[zemanjaski]

Burn is a combo deck where you need to assemble 7 combo pieces, and that might not even be enough...yeah no thanks.

[Khaospawn]

Modern Burn just makes me very sad. You have to have a very questionable and painful manabase. If it's considered combo deck, its definitely not the best combo to play. Plus its very easily disrupted - a single creature or a Lightning Helix from your opponent can close that window for you fast. When you to start choosing to kill a Tarmogoyf over your opponent, you're probably on your way to losing.

[Khaospawn]

Besides, the math says I can kill quicker with fewer cards playing Goblins than I will with Burn.

Example - turn 2 War Marshall, turn 3 bushwhacker, swing, play Goblin grenade. That's a potential of 11 damage from 3 cards. You'd need to have at least 4 cards to do that with Burn. Plus, in the above scenario, if I have a 1-drop then I've done even more damage. Also, I still have guys onboard threatening more damage. You can't do that with Burn.

[DroppinSuga]

Disregard red cards, play motherfuckin' robots.

[Khaospawn]

Shattering Spree says hello.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Shattering Spree says hello.

Shatterstorm bitch!

[Kaitscralt]

Bringing Robots with Blood Moon to an unknown tournament is a really safe bet, it's a consistent force in Modern

Barring that, Splinter Twin is a strong choice

[DroppinSuga]

Bringing Robots with Blood Moon to an unknown tournament is a really safe bet, it's a consistent force in Modern

Barring that, Splinter Twin is a strong choice

Madding is a genius

[Valdarith]

Twin is my favorite tier 1 deck but it is far from cheap running all those blue fetches, Remands, Splinter Twin, etc.

[Khaospawn]

Shattering Spree says hello.

Shatterstorm bitch!

Agree that Shatterstorm is excellent. However, I don't play it because my Goblins don't aim to hit 4 mana. I do play it in sideboard for Storm though.