MDU's Rx Builds

For decks that are not quite tier 1 but are still evolving.

Moderators: Kaitscralt, zemanjaski, Christen

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:25 pm

By the time you cast Reveler you will have typically played all your burn spells, hoping to draw one or ideally 2 more to finish opponent off. Note that you can sometimes cast a Temper for 1 mana when you play a Bedlam. That said, it's a slow grindy card, and I don't think you can play more than 1 or 2 in a deck that also runs Thunderbreak unless you want to go midrange. In theory it's a very good card for postboard vs. Coco, as pairing it with Rending Volley makes it more efficient.

----------

Played one mirror match against an RDW with Dragons and Hanweir Garrison+Battlements. That deck made a pretty good impression on me mostly due to the Haste option for Garrison
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby LaZerBurn » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:45 pm

I like this deck! Turns out even at Sorcery speed Burn is still Burn! :D
Image

Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:35 am

Here is the latest RB list i'm testing out:

[deck]Rakdos Burn


Lands: 22
4x Foreboding Ruins
12x Mountain
4x Smoldering Marsh
2x Swamp

Creatures: 12
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Abbot of Keral Keep
4x Bedlam Reveler

Instant/Sorcery: 26
4x Collective Brutality
4x Incendiary Flow
4x Tormenting Voice
4x Alms of the Vein
4x Exquisite Firecraft
4x Fiery Temper
2x Read the Bone

Sideboard: 15
2x Lightning Axe
1x Lightning Berserker
2x Sinister Concoction
3x Avacyn's Judgment
3x Self-Inflicted Wound
2x Virulent Plague
2x Goldnight Castigator[/deck]

Still a work in progress but it feels like I got something here. Sadly I haven't tested out much against the dreaded Bant Company but so far it's been more winning than losing. Could probably use some sort of combinations of Fiery Impulse, Lightning Axe, and Rending Volley in between the main and side.

The deck looks like it might be clunky but it is filled with draw and CA. The deck is super flexible on how you play as well, you can shoot everything to the face or to their weak creatures. The only MU I concede is that damn Harmless Offering deck. I haven't played against it with this current deck list but I had no way of interacting with it aside from the limited discard Collective Brutality gives. Though the older version of the deck I did run both Thermo-Alchemist and Stromkirk Occultist with some success. But I decided to up the spell count to make Bedlam Wanderer easier to cast.

Let me know what are your thoughts.

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:59 am

Played a bunch today. Haven't really changed much yet since I haven't run into any bant company decks yet but I am really liking where the deck is at. I will be busy all day for work for the next two days and gone for the weekend so i wont get much playing time till Sunday. Like I said, been winning more games than i have been losing. Most my losses today were from miss clicks and me not playing as best as i could. The only changes I'd make is more 1-cmc creature removal spells in the side for those annoying spirits. The revelers really shine here and with 26 instants and sorcery spells they are easy to cast.

Is there anyway I can upload my replays just to give people an idea of what i'm talking about? I rather have you guys watch than have me explain this.

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby magicdownunder » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:40 am

I usually just upload videos on youtube (I'll love to watch them if you have the time to do that).

- - -

I still havn't brought any cards yet but my friends are testing Secret Burn with poor results vs Ramp and Control (something which I think should of been obv.).
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:28 pm

Haven't been online the last days, so catching up a bit...

@MDU: Based on my limited testing, I would confirm that Secret Burn is kinda mediocre vs. control. Main reason is that those control decks are not do-nothing durdle type but more Midrange decks that force you to use quite a bit of burn on their creatures.

@ Stuffydolphan: I like what you're trying to do with your spell heavy RB variant. Especially the ability to take spells out of control player's hands while still doming them for 2 (or more) seems nice on paper. My concern is how many targets these decks actually have. I would suspect the deck is stronger against the RBx control decks than against the GBx ones. I also wonder if playing 6 draw spells is simply too slow and "cute" and that adding a playset of collective defiance instead might be preferable.

@ LaZer: how much have you tested the Secret Burn List? Want to share some experiences?

----------

I haven't been able to conjure up a convincing Mono Red List so far (it's kind of annoying that Hanweir Battlements plays so badly with Lightning Berserker...). I will for now test both Creature Heavy and Spell Heavy RB lists and report back.
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:23 pm

I am going to look into posting my replays later on. Would it be better if i add audio commentary or is silence ok?

@ dauntless: I always find a useful mode with Collective Brutality. Against burn decks and other control decks escalating the card gives you so much advantage since both discard and drain life are pretty relevant.

Against creature heavy decks like WW or UW Spirits the escalate isn't as strong since most the discard doesn't hit their best cards but the neg 2 is something we want. The drain is not as big here since both of these MU you will assume the roll of control but having life gain against these decks is never bad.

Against G/W tokens the best thing I can discard is usually Dromokas Command which is ok but all their best spells are planeswalkers. CB is probably weakest in this MU and I should be taking them out for something like Virulent Plague and or Avacyn's Judgement. Sometimes I can use the neg 2 in combination with fiery temper to take down an Avacyn. This MU I haven't figured out what is the best to play them.

Against Eldrazi decks, the discard ranges from good to bad. Getting their counter spells or discard spells is always good. The neg 2 can take down smaller creatures which they usually run or be used in combination with your burn to take down 5 toughness creatures. The drain 2 in this MU can matter since it can buy you an extra turn. Usually in this MU we want to race and tempo them depending on if they play the aggro or control version of the deck.

That's what I have found in my testing so far. The other important thing to remember about CB is the escalate which helps you fill the graveyard with more cards to make the reveler cheaper. The 6 draw spells are fine especially if you look at things like Abbot, Neonate, and Reveler which all help you tremendously with cycling through the deck. I do wish that they made CB have duress as its discard mode and drain for 3 and neg for 3 but that would have been really OP.

Haven't tested out Collective Defiance yet but I don't know where to put them in. Logic would say swap them in for Exquisite Firecraft but I like that card too much.There's nothing else that domes for 4 to the head in one shot. Being able to hit planeswalkers for 4 is a big deal as well. Maybe the flexibly in this deck can make up for raw power?

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:07 pm

Intuitively, I would cut the card draw (possibly the 2 Read the Bones and 2 Tormenting Voice) This is as close as you can get to a traditional burn deck and very often this will turn into a damage race where you simply can't afford the tempo loss. It's possible that Bedlam changes all that but I'd be concerned that the main thing card draw does in the deck is to make you discard more cards to Reveler. I would possibly run 2 Lightning Axe over the two remaining Tormenting Voice. But let me test it - I could be all wrong here...
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:36 pm

Interesting 9-1 decklist by Pedro Cavalho from the Pro Tour:

[deck]
Creatures 9
4 Thermo-Alchemist
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

Instants / Sorceries 23
2 Tormenting Voice
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Collective Defiance
2 Dispel
2 Unsubstantiate
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper

Enchantment 4
4 Fevered Visions

Land 24
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Shivan Reef
3 Highland Lake
9 Mountain
3 Island
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

Sideboard
1 Dispel
1 Fiery Impulse
3 Goldnight Castigator
2 Weaver of Lightning
1 Rending Volley
2 Negate
1 Spell Shrivel
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Nahiri's Wrath
[/deck]

Is this the way to build a counterburn deck in 2016? The think I like most about it is that it ain't running no Goggles.... ;-)
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:10 am

Ok been doing a lot of MTGO and some paper playing. This past week we had a Pro Tour that featured a bunch of brand new decks that challenge the Bant and G/W decks for the top tier decks. Which is a big win for us because with the decline of those decks helps us get stronger. I'm not sure if the Portland GP will reflect this but either way I feel like we must be prepared for them as well. The eventual winner of Eldritch Moon PT ended being B/W control.

I am happy to report that the MU against most the new crop delirium/emerge decks have felt like they been in my favor. The easiest way to explain it is that they have very little ways of interacting with our non creature spell heavy deck. Since they don't put enough pressure early on we are free to fling everything to their face. By the time they start to put serious pressure on us, it is already too late. They really need us to stumble and for them to have a good hand.

B/W is another MU where is felt in our favor as well. They have a few more troublesome cards like Kalitas, Lilliana, Shambling Vent, Sorrin, and even Avacyn but that's only if they live enough for the late game. Since a lot of their spells are kill spells they usually end up with dead cards. The only meaningful early game interacting comes from Transgress the Mind and Duress which are both annoying for us but not too back breaking.

U/W Spirits is a match that felt 50/50 though i have only played against it in paper and without a side board. They can and will out-tempo us. The strategy here is to kill their dudes and try not to take much early game damage. Luckily most of our spells can act as kill spells and we generally should be able to draw more cards than they can in the long game. If I were to dedicate space in the side, 1-cmc instant removal spells would be huge against them and should tilt it more towards our advantage.

U/B Zombies is something I ran across online and saw my friend play today. I haven't played much against it but I don't think I manage to get a single win. Maybe I should just try to race? Either way I concede the match for now. Hopefully I don't run into it at the GP.

R/U burn the matches were close but i think having some life gain can swing things closer to our favor. Collected Brutality with escalate does a lot of work since their hands are filled with goodies. We still have to be careful but overall I feel the MU in our favor.

I think that's a summary of what I have played against. I did get open broadcaster but I am having problems with getting any sound from it. I might need a new mic but I don't know why the one on my laptop isn't working with OBS Studio. Would you guys be interested in me uploading my replays with no sound on YouTube? Anyways I like where the main deck stands as is, though I would like to test more against Bant. The million dollar question now is what should I expect at the GP? Will the new crop of delirium and emerge decks show up in great numbers or are people going to stick with the old reliable Bant Company.

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:13 am

Just an update for the R/B madness deck I have.

Been playing a lot on MTGO these last few days in preparation for the GP. The main deck as is seems about as good as it's going to feel. But picking the right sideboard is going to be a challenge for me.

[deck]4x Galvanic Bombardment
2x Lightning Axe
2x Lightning Berserker
2x Goldnight Castigator
3x Self-Inflicted Wound
2x Virulent Plague[/deck]

My biggest concern are the Bant Company decks which is why I have a lot of cards in the board dedicated for it. I feel like one mana burn spells are the way to go for this MU. 4x Galvanic Bombardment can take anything of theirs early game and Self-Inflicted Wound is also good. Not sure if there's something better I should be doing? My buddies recommended 2x Ruinous Path but I don't think that card would be all that great since we are only running on 10 black mana. Even with the way the deck can cycle through cards it feels as if anything that requires double black is a bad idea.

Most of the other decks are a bit easier but would it be ok if I board something big like one of the Chandra's or Dragonlord Kolaghan just to give the deck a little bit more of an extra oomph. Anyways I can't do much testing for now but I'll be checking in and try to discuss on here.

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:07 am

@ Stuffy: Good work on the deck. I tried it out once or twice but wasn't so happy with it TBH. Please keep posting! On your SB question: it's a tough matchup and I really wonder if it's easy to control them. Why not simply stick 4 Languish in a sort of transformative Sidboard? May have to bait a spell queller before obviously... Mana is obviously wonky for that...just an idea!

In the meantime, I managed to 4-1 my first MTGO league this season

4-1 in an MTGO league with this:

[deck=Dauntless' Dragonfire Red]
Creatures 18
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Village Messenger
3 Goblin Glory Chaser
3 Lightning Berserker
4 Thunderbreak Regent

Burn 19
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Draconic Roar
4 Fiery Temper
4 Collective Defiance
3 Exquisite Firecraft

Lands 23
19 Mountain
4 Looming Spires

Sideboard
4 Fiery Impulse
2 Rending Volley
2 Twin Bolt
2 Impetuous Devils
1 Act of Treason
4 Bedlam Reveler
[/deck]

IMO Glory Chaser has gotten quite a bit better with the printing of Incendiary Flow and Collective Definance for late game looting, while Abbot is now much worse with Liliana in the format. Thunderbreak is still as good as it was (which people like MDU knew all along, of course... :) )

Matchups were:

2-0 vs. UG Surge
2-0 vs. BG Delirium
2-0 vs. Jund Delirium
2-1 vs. RW Humans
1-2 vs. Bant Company
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby LaZerBurn » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:53 pm

List looks solid :)

Red is def viable ~ - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/456967#online

This is well worth a look ~ https://reddeckwinning.com/2016/08/07/q ... itch-moon/

The DTR FB page has plenty of Red discussion too :)
Image

Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:42 pm

@dauntless Sorry the deck didn't work out as great for you as it has been working for me. Not sure what to say other than maybe I should post my matches just to give people a general idea of what it's capable of? But I think I need a new mic first since the one on my laptop isnt working with OBL Studio.

Those decks that you and LazerBurn have posted look pretty nice but sadly I am already committed to my list and I don't think it would be a good idea to switch decks with no time to even play test. Though after the GP I would be interested in trying them out to see how they compare. Like I said before the changing of the landscape has made conditions better for red decks in general to compete.

Back to sideboard talk, Languish is a card that never crossed my mind because of its double black mana requirement but this deck is probably capable of running double black spells since it cycles though so many cards. Even if I can't use the card it can always be pitch to get me to something I can use. Other cards that crossed my mind were Avacyn's Judgement, From Under the Floorboards, Burn Within, or any other of the x-spells since sometimes I end up with a lot of mana.

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:39 pm

If you can support Languish, it's probably the best sideboard tech vs. Bant, espectially since they will likely not expect it and there's a chance they overcommit to the board.

Generally speaking, I would suggest you make a sideboard plan per matchup (just use top 5-10 of TMTG goldfish) and post it here - this is usually the best way to organize your thoughts and for others to comment...

By the way: What's your user name on MTGO?
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby magicdownunder » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:44 pm

why Goblin Glory Chaser over Bellstriker?
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:30 pm

@magicdownunder, probably because menace is so good right now. That would be my guess.

@dauntless, my mtgo user name is el_cucui, feel free to send a friends request. That goes for everybody.

Back to the sideboard talk, Yeah I think I should be fine in running 4 Languish since the deck can draw so many cards. That would change things quite a bit on the side, would probably replace something like Self-Inflicted Wound and another card. Other decks that I saw were a bunch of different color Delirium and Emerge decks, G/R ramp, B/W control, With most of those decks I feel like my deck is pretty solid, but maybe there are some things in the side im overlooking?

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:09 am

why Goblin Glory Chaser over Bellstriker?
I'm not set on this one yet. Glory Chaser had my preference over Zurgo for 3 reasons: 1) Better chance of renowning him b/c of more burn 2) No-block clause of Zurgo vs. RW Humans and Bant 3) Can loot Glory Chasers drawn later with Defiance.

I don't like any of the 2-drops in the current meta, so assuming that the following is fixed

[cards]4 Insolent Neonate
4 Village Messenger
3 Lightning Berserker
2 Exquisite Firecraft[/cards]

it's basically 4 Flex Slots to be filled with either 1-drops (Glory Chaser, Zurgo, 4th Berserker) and/or extra Firecrafts.

How do you see this?
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:55 pm

One day left before the GP.
I forgot to mention but I have switched the 2 Read the Bone for 2 Collected Defiance and the results have been great. The card is so good when you can escalate it 1 or 2 times. And even when you dont escalate it the card isn't bad. A big upgrade to RtB.

Anyways, back to sideboard. I have been thinking about running 2-3 Goblin Dark Dwellers on the side. This deck is perfect for him because of all the 3cmc spells I run. GDD could come in against multiple decks and would provide me with good value against almost anything. Next card I was thinking about was not a specific card but an X-spell. Just as a 1 or 2 of? Or is that too cute?

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:43 pm

Stuffy can you post your current list and possible Sideboard configurations? (I.e. what do you cut against which matchup?). Without that it's pretty hard to give good advice.

Generally speaking, I'm not sure about GDD in your deck. It has anti-synergy with Reveler, and also because you run so few creatures, there's a big chance that your opponent has a removal spell ready and the card ends up being a 5cc burn spell.
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:13 pm

Most current and up to date R/B madness decklist

[deck]Rakdos Burn

Lands: 22
4 Foreboding Ruins
12 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
2 Swamp

Creatures: 12
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Bedlam Reveler

Instant/Sorcery: 26
4 Collective Brutality
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Fiery Temper
2 Collective Defiance

Sideboard: 15
4 Galvanic Bombartment
2 Lightning Axe
2 Lightning Berserker
3 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Virulent Plague
2 Goldnight Castigator[/deck]


Against B/W control i'll usually cut off the play set of Collected Brutality for 2 Virulent Plague and 2 Goldnight Castigator. B/W usually plays on some kind of token strategy. Not to mention we auto lose to Westvale Abbey. The plan here is still the same after we board, try to play as many spells as you can and draw into more gas like the Reveler to finish them off.

Against Bant Company we want to be the control in this MU so I bring in 4 Galvanic Bombardment, 2 Lightning Axe, 3 Self Inflicted Wound. Out goes 4 Alms and 4 Insolent Neonate, 1 Tormenting Voice. Collected Brutality stays because it can kill some of their creatures and also take away their powerful instant and sorcery cards. Eventually I hope to clear the board and draw all the gas I need to kill them off.

Against most emerge/delirium decks I dont have a side board plan. I dont really know what would be good here. Though this is a very non interactive for me since everything goes to their face. Easy MU for the most part as long as I don't get screwed why my draws like the times i have then at low life and draw into nothing but lands.

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby magicdownunder » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:44 am

No love for Thermo-Alchemist? It seem solid in this creature heavy meta.

I also think Burn needs 23 lands - mainly due to all the 3cc spells
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:50 am

@ Stuffy: Looks good. I'd be concerned about the Delirium decks, but you can indeed hope that Collective Brutality does some work for you there MD. Not sure you can improve the matchup that much post SB. I almost want to Infinite Obliteration their Emrakul....

Good luck at the GP!

@ MDU: Agree on 23 lands. It's mainly Collective Defiance that is more a 4cmc spell... That said you get flooded a lot...

Thermo-Alchemist may be a necessity, given how many decks are running Koz Return these days...

Not sure that the meta is that creature based - there quite some control out there, plus people are finding ever faster ways to power out an Emrakul. Last night I had a RG Ramp, Collective Defiancing itself for a new hand and enough spells in the graveyard for instant delirium.

Quite honestly, I find it it hard to attack Control, CoCo and Delirium Ramp / Emerge all at the same time - even after post board. I really wonder whether going RU is the way to go. With Fevered Visions, Days undoing and Dispel we have 3 very powerful SB tools available to attack their respective game plans.... Not sure how such a build would look like, though.
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby magicdownunder » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:58 am

I think flooding is less of an issue with current red builds mainly due to Insolent Neonate and Collective Defiance, where as missing land no.3-4 is a near death sentence.

- - -

I think RU is the best color combo for "burn" - MonoR is better for that creature focus.
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:08 am

Do you have a list?
MTGO handle: Clemens268

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby magicdownunder » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:17 pm

No sadly - I havn't updated MTGO in since Moon was legal in paper (I will update it soon when I have time and work on a list).

I do think Thermo-Alchemist is really good though (I don't think its horrid in any MU really).
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:05 am

Just got back from the GP. Had a 6-2 record going into the last round but ended up with three losses. I made some very bad SB change at the last minute and payed for it. Kinda disappointed but I will try to come back tomorrow to salvage the day. I think I was hearing that people with 3 losses had no chance of top 8 so that's a bummer. At least this is giving me some real good insight in what changes i need to make. Way too many games going to time and the rounds taking at least a half hour or more after time is called. As for now im tired and need to get up early again.

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:06 am

Hey, I don't know what level you normally play on, but I think 6-3 at a GP is an excellent finish, so congrats :) Don't forget that you did this with a deck you completely built yourself!

---------------

With so many decks tapping out for on Liliana on t3, could it be that Scab-Clan Berserker out of the SB becomes a lot better? It's triggered by Grapple and Traverse from the delirium decks, too...
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:03 am

I haven't competed in a highly competitive event since more than a year ago in a SCG open when rabblemaster was in standard. All things considered I probably should be satisfied with that 9-6 performance but it felt like I could have done better. My last minute SB meddling was the most upsetting to me. I felt it weaken the already difficult Bant Company MU and didn't leave me with much for the other MU.

For some weird reason I decided to go with a Chandra, 4 Languish, 2 Thermo Alchemist and 4 Galvanic Bombardment as my last minute switch. Keeping only the 2 Virulent Plague and 2 Goldnight Castigator as the only holdouts from my original SB. The whole thing was just a big mess and I should have stuck with the original SB I had.

The problem with Languish in this deck aside from being double black, and costing 4 is that it's sorcery speed which makes it so they have a million ways to interact favorably with. I really think a bunch of 1 cmc instant speed removal is the way to go against them. I liked how Galvanic Bombardment performed since it does have good targets. Though there are the "awkward" times when you top deck it and you need that 3 damage to deal with something. But I think its scaling capabilities greatly make up for it. Chandra was bad almost all the time and would have never helped me much in most my MUs. I can see her doing ok in B/W control or midrange but I'm usually bringing Virulent Plague in that MU to shut down their token making capabilities. I also run the 2 Castigator for that MU but I never saw them. Plus they can get aggro and actually start to race us. I do feel that Thermo-Alchemist would have been much better to side in and possibly an additional 2 Collective Defiance since they are big against Kalitas. Thermo-Alchemist would be good against most delirium decks as well since they can survive against Lilly and against Kozilek's Return in that MU. Thermo-Alchemist are probably also good in the Bant MU as well though having them get bounce by Reflector Mage sucks but maybe it isnt that bad since it does mean they are tapped out for my next turn.

I won't get into specifics of each MU but more of a general summary of them.

I knew going in this GP that Bant was going to be difficult even though I didn't get to play test much against it before the GP. Game 1 I usually try to go my usual burn route but unless i draw into a good hand then it's gg. Collective Brutality is great here since discarding CC or command is a must to have a chance against them. Abbot is ok in this MU since it can provide us with the CA we need to keep up with them. You also don't mind having the Abbot getting bounced either since you can play it again later on for more CA. Abbot can also attack fairly well against them as long as you can give it prowess. The rest of the burn package is what is is. Game 1 it's all going to their face and game 2 it's going to their creatures. Since a good bulk of it is sorcery speed, you gotta use it at opportune times. In the future I think I want more 1-cmc instant speed removal to help combat them. Thermo-Alchemist would probably put in a lot of work since it blocks a lot of their creatures in the early game. There might be other better ways of combating Bant instead of trying to control them but I need more research. For now i think 1 mana instant speed burn is the best with. Self-Inflicted Wound does put in a lot of work as well.

Against B/W mid-range we need to play aggro/tempo against them. Game 1 we can generally race them fairly easily. They need us to stumble and they need to draw their life gain cards in order to have any sort of chance against us. They are too slow and many of their cards don't do much against us. The biggest threat in their decks are Kalitas, Linvala, Sorrin, and Westvale Abbey if they have the token list. And because they play Transgress the mind sometimes I find myself trying not to hold on onto any sorcery cards. Even if Abbot is Lilly fodder he is still ok in the MU mainly because of the CA it provides. I don't think CA can be understated . Though he might be ok to board out for game 2 for Thermo-Alchemist. Transgress the mind could end up being a solid board option for this MU since it will get everything that is important. Even though I lost a MU against them I feel good here because the game ended up really close and with me losing because I whiffed and possibly made some play mistakes. Shout out to Collective Defiance for being such a great answer to Kalitas. I still board in Virulent Plague because it makes Kalitas weaker, counters Lilly Emblem, and just makes token that much worse. Goldnight Castigator is good if you're on the play and can get him to come out on time. Sadly I never saw any of them in my 2 MU against them. Just make sure to save some burn in case they play Kalitas. Lava Axe could be good for the list that play the Angels.

I played against 3- G/B/x Delirium decks, beating out both the Sultai versions and losing to the G/B one. If I remember correctly, I think I made some play mistakes in my game losses to the G/B list. Both games I was able to drop him to 4 or less life before he drops a Kalitas and is able to stabilize and have me whiff my next draws. One of the games I drew 4-5 lands straight! The other game CB him only choosing the discard mode when I probably should have drained him as well. The two relevant spells he had that turn was I think a Transgress the Mind and a Tutor but I ended up taking the Transgress but on his next turn he tutored for Kalitas. I had two extra truns to draw into burn but I whiffed and he is able to recover. In this MU it might be ok to board out Abbot for Alchemist since they do play Lilly and can put blockers out in front of the Abbot. Virulent Plague is good since it makes Kalitas weaker and because many of their cards rely on tokens to win.

The easiest MU for me was against any of the other R/x decks. Especially against R/U in game 1 where our life gain and our discard keeps us out of range. Hitting them with a CB choosing both the drain and the discard is huge. Fevered Visions ends up helping us more since we are generally able to keep a low hand count. Game 2 they should be siding out Visions and bring it some counter spells. They can actually race us pretty good if they go first. Jace, Collective Defiance, Thermo-Alchemist, and the man land are their biggest threats against us. Luckily we have many different ways to deal with their creatures and our deck has the better draw engine. In the side I like the Thermo-Alchemist and Galvanic Bombardment to deal with their creatures.

And finally I played against B/U zombies which is a MU i felt bad against but mainly because I wasn't sure about the best way to play against them. I think game one we try to tempo and race them. Chump block their guys when we need to and deal damage to their life total. Though if they get their engine going they do get very difficult to beat. Worse is that they can recur creatures all game long and exhaust us in the long game. Our only chance for us is to get our nut draws as well and even then it might not be enough sometimes. For this MU we want Thermo-Alchemist to go in for Abbot since being able to repeatedly block is a whole lot more important than any sort of CA the Abbot will give us. Plus Abbott is Lilly fodder and Alchemist can keep dealing important damage all game long. Virulent Plague is another good card as well since it shuts down their token making cards.

The only high tier deck I didn't play against were any of the G/U/r emerge/delirium decks. From my experience in online and in paper playing against my buddies deck, I feel that our MU is strong against them. They don't interact with us early game so that opens them up to the full extent of our burn spells. The MU are a race and it's one we should be able to win. I was very disappointed I didn't get to see more of them and instead played so many games against Bant.

Anyways that's where I currently stand with the deck. Many people complemented the deck but I wanted to show everyone what it was truly capable of. Also winning some money would have been nice. For now I'll keep on improving what's there.

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:25 pm

Thanks for the report, interesting to read! I hope MDU and Lazer get to try (and post) their own takes on the new format soon as well!
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:25 pm

The new format has new decks to watch out for but Bant still feels like the king and my deck sadly matches up poorly against it. Though my nut hands do trump theirs so at least we have that. I have been trying the 1cmc sideboard removal suite but sometimes we just cant keep up. I'm not sure how else we can combat Bant. The other problem with our burn spells is that they can get countered with Command, Avacyn, Spell Queller, and the indestructible spirit. I really wish we had a cheap splash-able instant speed neg x/x spell. Grasp of darkness is double black and would require the deck to run around 16 black sources in order to use that card kind of reliably on turn 2.

Also I think I am going to replace Abbot with Alchemist going forward. Alchemist is better in more situations in my deck than Abbot ever can be. Though there are a few situations when Abbot is better but for the most part and especially in this deck i think Alchemist is superior in almost every way. The only times I like Abbot more is when he get bounced to give that extra CA.

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby LaZerBurn » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 pm

Thanks for the report, interesting to read! I hope MDU and Lazer get to try (and post) their own takes on the new format soon as well!
Head to the Fires of Savagery FB Group - RDW is doing really well and a few guys are going 5-0 and 4-1 regularly :)

Latest list is https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/460829
Image

Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:55 pm

@suffydolphan:

Unbelievable... Todd Anderson just suggested your list (more or less)

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33 ... GINVI.html
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:44 pm

@LazerBurn, I was seeing more and more of these deck list earlier this week on MTGO. I had a lot of trouble against them, mainly because my deck gives them opportunities to hit back hard. Also because Thunderbreak Regent and Dragons Roar is such a powerful pairing.

@dauntless, I cant see the article but that would be pretty sweet if he gives the deck a shout out.

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:55 pm

So the latest version of my deck I have completely moved out the Abbots and put in a playset of Alchemist in its place. There are pros and cons to both cards but I think Alchemist has a few more pros and it synergizes better with the deck. Though I actually like Abbot better in the Bant MU but Alchemist isn't bad there either and he's much pretty much better anywhere else.

For the rest of the SB im still trying to figure out what's best. Since Bant is still the biggest threat, I feel like dedicating lots of slots for them is fine. 4 Galvanic Blast, 2 Fiery Impulse, 2 Lightning Axe and 2-3 Self-Inflicted Wound. Maybe it is a little overkill and maybe there are better cards I can use but for now that's what i have. Luckily some of those cards can be sided in for different MU including Mono Red, Mono
White, B/W Midrange that use Kalitas and Avacyn, and U/W Spirits. Im going to start having Kolaghans Command to combat that artifact that gives players hexproof and reduces damage of sources by one. The last cards that round up the SB is Virulent Plague which put in a lot f work against many different decks.

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:16 pm

OK, here's the list that Todd Anderson advocated for your reference

[deck]RB Reveler[/deck]

I don't know if at all he playtested with it or not - some of the numbers and the land count seem a bit odd.

On sideboarding: I don't know if thinning you deck with 1:1 removal will get you there, so I really don't like Galvanic Bombardment against Bant. You have hardly any creatures to put early pressure on the deck, and your game plan should mainly resolve around either mass removal (which apparently doesn't work as you mentioned in your GP report) or otherwise Searing effects that damage your opponent while removing a creature. Self-Inflicted Wound Seems good here, so is Draconic Roar and or Collective Defiance / Brutality. I would think you best options would be: (a) Side in the Dragons + Roar Package - although that's a heavy SB investment (b) max out on Self-inflicted wound and add a number of Goblin-Dark-Dwellers (+lands if necessary) for Recursion

---------------------------------

I tried out a variant of Galli's RDW list (the one Lazer posted) and went 4-1 in a league. I need to work on it a bit more, but it's definitely a good starting point for mono red
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:11 pm

Similar but different. He's running on 25 lands which feels like it's way too much for this deck. If you feel like you need more land you can bump it to 23 but any more than that feels like too many. Guess he had to get rid of Exquisite Firecraft. Don't like the inclusion of Fiery Impulse in the main either since game one we always want to be as aggressive and fast as possible.

About SB, I agree that is way too many 1:1 removals but I can't think of what else I can do. Would be nice if I could fit in 4 Regents and 4 Roars with the 4 Self Inflicted Wound but that is way too many slots dedicated for just that MU. I like Self-Inflicted Wound and it feels like a good 3-4 of is fine. Adding an extra land and 2-4 GDD would still leave me with plenty of space to mess with in the SB. I think I'll try that out. I always thought GDD would be good here. The other plan is to go small with 1-cmc instant speed removal for back up. Could catch them off balance and force them to make plays they don't want to make?

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:33 pm

Check out this version by one of MTGO's top grinders:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/s ... urn#online
MTGO handle: Clemens268

stuffydollfan
Newcomer
Posts: 90
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:21 am

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby stuffydollfan » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:50 am

Hey this list is more like it. I guess Collected Defiance over Exquisite Firecraft? I guess the versatility of Defiance puts it over the raw power of Firecraft? I also like the addition of Geir Reach Sanitarium and am ok with the bump to 23 lands and the additional black mana sources. Having 12 black mana is much safer.

I think the thing I'm most curious about is the sideboard. I love the addition of Tainted Remedy for the decks that rely on life gain to pull away like B/W but what does Weaver of Lightning side in against? I removed Castigator from my side but is it good to put back in?

User avatar
dauntless268
Regular Member
Posts: 313
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

MDU's Rx Builds

Postby dauntless268 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:36 pm

I've had a rather bad Gameday experience with the Galli's aggro list. Doesn't feel the build is well suited to handle anything in this meta. Liliana is huge against almost all of our playable 1-drops, which aren't great against Bant either.
The prevalent delirium decks are more midrange or play Kozileks Return, which makes Lightning Berserker quite a bit weaker than it would normally be.

The folks on the FB group don't seem to be that happy either, people are starting to switch to MonoW humans, or brew up crazy Robowolf decks....

For the next round, it's Red Burn for me as well. I prefer to frustrate others... ;-) generally speaking, it seems like it's a reasonable meta for burn since all the top decks seem to be decidedly midrange.

The Medvedev RB build seems to be a good starting point. I would somehow love to scram the Dragon Package in there, but that's probably too much to ask. Will report back.
MTGO handle: Clemens268


Return to “Developing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest