R/W Aggro

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:41 pm

Advice for changing one's luck? Lol

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Postby Khaospawn » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:52 pm

Make your own luck? Lol
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:52 pm

In no way do i mean cheating either.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:24 am

My best advice is to be stoic. That's hard to do, but eventually you'll be able to train yourself to be unphased by missing your third land drop or having to mull to four.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:35 am

UB control is a horrible matchup. Winnable, but definitely unfavorable.

I said on one of these pages that this deck is bad against things that don't care about Stormbreath dragon.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:26 am

You did.

Big whoop. Wanna fight about it?
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby AledM11 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:32 am

I think we need to look towards what Dragons of Tarkir does to the deck. There are a few contenders..... Perhaps lowering the curve substantially could be one direction to take?

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:37 am

It'll have to adapt, yes.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Pedrobear » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:31 pm

Nothing much to report. I played against casual decks and only one great player/deck who was on Sultai midrange. He was playing 4 Charms to try to beat my ass but it didnt work out.

First playing Pilgrim/Abzan advantage/SGM. I liked your style Khaos !

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:49 pm

Glad you like it. ;)

I'm going to go play in a GPT today for Vegas. No expectations going in as I probably won't even go to Vegas, but hey, it's a good day to play some Magic.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:16 pm

COME TO VEGAS KHAOS!!!!!
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:27 am

Okay, I won the GPT.

I'll let that sink in....
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:

It took exactly11 beers (thank you, Yuengling :smileup: ), but I won.
:fourhorsemenoftheapocalypse:

It was the stock list I last posted after Miami. Maindeck dagrons and all that. I went 3-1-1 in the Swiss to make Top 8.

Some notes:

- Dragon became good in the main because it was well positioned due to Wing Mate Rocs and other things. Suddenly, main deck Dragons became extinct after Ben Stark came along. Since then, Dragons aren't expected in Game 1. So they're still well positioned, right? The free wins agree with that.

- Ashcloud Phoenix: My baby, my love, don't ever leave me. You give me strength when I have none. Even in Game 1.

- Abzan Advantage: HOLY FUCKING SHIT! BUSS IT WIDE OPEN! BUSS IT WIDE OPEN!

This was the mirror breaker. My god. It's even great against any Courser deck. Funny story: Polu went monstrous to ping an Ashcloud Phoenix and Abzan Advantage said, "FUCK YO COUCH, NIGGA!" and proceeded to smoke Polu, make opponent lose a Mastery, and then made a pissed-off Phoenix deal 5 damage the following turn.

- Sideboarding: My sideboard is perfect right now. Would not change a thing. :V

Well....it was perfect for that tournament, at least.

I found that a lot of wins were not just from the "free win" cards like Rabble and Dragon, but from next-leveling opponents postboard. For example, in a lot of Game 2's and 3's, I was taking out EVERY SINGLE ENCHANTMENT IN MY DECK and just trying to strand opponents' Erases and whatnot.

It worked. Very well.

Luck: A little goes a long way. I made Top 4 simply by being paired against a Top 8 player that had to drop. It happens. :shrug: I refused to lose after that.

The mirror: It's a fucking crapshoot. There, I said it. However, the general rule (and I use that loosely) is to squeeze the most advantage out of your cards than your opponent can get out of their cards. Everything from extra cards from Siege, Phoenix flips, Outburst -> Stoke, Heliod's Pilgrim -> Chains, or Abzan Advantage blowouts greatly increase your chances of winning. But sometimes you just eat shit and die because their haymakers couldn't be answered. And the same goes for them also. It's kill or be killed.

It also doesn't hurt when they draw multiple lands from Sieges. :glee:

Never give up, never surrender: I won a few Game 3's today simply because I didn't give in and scoop when all the signs said I should've thrown away the towel. I had a few great running draws and managed to stabilize before mounting a formidable offense.


Anyways, dunno if I'll go actually play in Vegas. It's not "for-sure", but it's something to think about. All I know is that today was a great day to drink beers and tap Mountains. :jam:
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby lorddax » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:50 pm

Way to go man! Makes me proud that I'm looking to trade a lot of the value from my boxes I cracked this weekend (khans and a frf) for most of these cards. Starting with 20/20/20 Sligh and building back into RW. My fresh Ugin should allow me to trade into a big chunk of the deck.

Any changes looking back or decisions you made that you would make differently?
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Postby Khaospawn » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:43 pm

Not at the moment, no. Pretty sure this new set will really shake things up so its probably safe to say I'll just see how the meta shapes up before making any major changes.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:02 am

Thoughts on Thunderbreak Regent and Draconic Roar in this deck?

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:04 pm

Regent is very powerful.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Aodh » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:25 pm

Is there a good deck that can play the 2-mana fliers have haste and dragons ping enchantment AND the 6-mana all my dudes are 4/4 dragons spell? Lol.

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Postby Toblakai » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:45 pm

I'm tempted to split 2/2 Thunderbreak Regent and Ojutai Exemplars. They both seem really good.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:34 am

Man, after looking at the top 8 for the Invitational, I still feel like this is highly relevant:

[deck]RW Aggro[/deck]
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:49 am

Needs more Outpost Siege.

To be honest I think these top 8 decks are pretty far away from what we'll see at the Pro Tour. I see a lot of suboptimal choices and not a lot of innovation. As maligned as DTK is, I actually feel like the set will have a major impact on the meta, especially the red cards. Ire Shaman in particular is a card I think a lot of people are sleeping on and I've even gone deep on the card as a spec.

I think the best way to approach RW right now is a Ben Stark list now that we have access to so many mana efficient spells. I've been wondering if Myth Realized belongs in the deck. I was initially low on the card and to an extent I still am. A lot of people have been talking about it for control decks but I think it actually belongs in RW.
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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:56 am

You don't want that many Outpost Siege when you maindeck Dagrons. It is possible to make Chandra a Siege, but the deck really just wants to go hard, gaining small, incemental advantages along the way (especially in the mirror).

The Ben Stark Special is fucking amazing against little aggro decks and Jeskai tokens. Against everything else, the traditional version of RW is solid versus the majority of field, including the Ben Stark deck because it's hardpressed to deal with dragons/fliers game 1.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:15 am

We will have to see how the meta develops, but again, with the efficiency that now exists in the format, I feel like eventually a low curve RW list will come out on top. I think tokens and red decks will be dominant strategies, and as you said, Stark RW shines against them.
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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:36 am

We shall see.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:44 am

You should consider playing twin bolt. I had it in the board of Jeskai tokens and it felt much better then arc lightning ever did.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:36 pm

It's certainly a consideration, especially if token builds start to run fewer Outbursts in favor of Dragon Fodder.
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Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:36 pm

Instant speed is also a big draw to the card.
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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:41 pm

You should consider playing twin bolt. I had it in the board of Jeskai tokens and it felt much better then arc lightning ever did.
I considered it and ended up playing Scouring Sands at FNNM. Since the majority of the room was playing Mono Red, Sands certainly over performed.

As for Arc Lightning, you can pry that from my cold, dead hands. ;-)
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:42 pm

Although, Twin Bolt does go to the dome. That's a big plus.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Pedrobear » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:44 am

During my testing, Thunderbreak Regent was a great choice in R/W. It also allow you to play Draconic Roar instead of Lightning Strike.

Is everyone going in a different way and still sticking to pre-DTK version of the deck ? (the classic one or Ben Stark)

Edit : I just checked Top64 Decklist from this week-end. 1 Mardu Midrange is actually R/W splashing for Crackling Doom and few black cards in a Ben Stark RW shell. The other one is like old Mardu with Butcher.

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Postby Pedrobear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:17 pm

Went 4-1-1 into top 8 then lost in semi-finals with a RW list at our 36 players French nationals qualifier.

Will do a more accurate report later but here is my explanation of RW.

Our meta is not reactive or very slow, so I wasn't expecting a lot new decks coming from last week-end lists. I chose RW because I know well the deck and how to play it. It was a gamble but worth it, did much better than last year nationals qualifier (0/2 drop)

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:28 pm

Dromaka's Command is really good against RW.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Pedrobear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:30 pm

Saw 0 of them. Did a bit of scouting at every table, 2 or 3 players were actually playing them.

I know I wouldn't play again this deck but I hadn't enought to test other deck but I'll certainly switch to Jeskai or RDW in the next weeks.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:34 pm

That's probably where the deck is heading, unfortunately. Previously, RW bridged the gap between Mono Red and Jeskai, but without getting direct help from DTK (along with the others getting a HUGE boost), it's probably time to make a choice between Jeskai or Mono Red. At the risk of displaying what LP calls "old man syndrome," I HAVE considered playing the deck without Chains and using some number of V-Stance in its stead while taking a more Ben Stark approach. With that said, the deck still does have some very powerful cards like Rabble, Seeker, Grand Master, a plethora of Burn, and Stormbreath.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Pedrobear » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:41 pm

Yes, I have the same feeling as we all drifted from Mardu to RW. Mardu was just a worst RW. Now RW feels like a worst Jeskai.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:50 pm

Mardu has always been bad. :lol:
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Valdarith » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:23 pm

Get out your Lightning Berserkers and get ready to melt faces ladies.
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Postby Pedrobear » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:55 pm

I played a classic RW with main differences being maindeck :
+3 Thunderbreak Regent + 1 Phoenix (couldn’t find the last one)
+2 Draconic Roar +2 Lightning Strike
Sideboard :
+3 Gryff which I think its still a very good card against all the ETB trigger (Exploit !) in the field.

1st Round 2 - 0 against Jeskai
I did not see a lot of his deck, he had some burn for my first creatures but couldn't handle 2 Hordeling Outburst on G1. Then he proceeded to give an advice to the guy sitting next to him telling him "Why didn't make your lion Monstrous" (in a Abzan vs Control matchup). Just after G1, judge calling by the opponent. My opponent was totally upset and in a very aggressive position, the HJ gave him a game loss.

2nd round 2 – 1 against UB Control
A friend of mine, playing a really slow UB with 4 Ugin maindeck for the lulz. All his wrath were actually Downfall for 5 against me. He had no chance on G1 and didn’t know I’d play things like Mastery the Unseen and Outpost Siege after board.

3rd round 1 – 2 Against Mono U
I crushed him G1, don’t remember exactly how but I only saw Gudul Lurker and Omenspeaker, I was confused how the hell he went 2-0
I put him at 4 life after some turns then drew only lands. He managed to kill me with Thassa making unblockable UUU Elemental. Not a very bright player, he could have finished me 3 turns before -_-
G3 I kept a removal heavy (with erase and chained to deal with everything) hand with 2 lands. Never saw the 3rd before he played a fucking stupid blue siege on mana leak mode ffs.

4th round 2 – 1 against Abzan Aggro/Midrange
I remember that one game was removals into triple Rhino for him, the other one was removals into triple SBD for me. 3rd game I surprised him with my Gryff to negate a drain from a Rhino, then Regent into SBD to win the race with flyers.

5th Round 2 – 1 against Abzan Control
A friend of mine, I made slightly mistake as for example slow playing a Sidisi to find an exploit enabler instead of just slamming it for its presence on the board.
He won a game due to a Rhino into Feed the Clans, won 13 life, game (I actually lent to him the Feed the clan the morning to replace a sideboard card he couldn’t find).

6th Round ID into Top8

Quarterfinals 2 – 0 against Jeskai with Monastery Mentor and Alesha.
It was the quickest match ever in a Top8. He kept a hand without W mana on G1 and I think, only white costed spell. He conceded turn 4… Then on G2 he kept again a risky hand and I saw my 3 Wild Slash with Seeker and Soulfire to kill everything. I slammed a turn 4 Siege into value for the win.

Semifinals 2 – 0, against RDW, no green.
I mulliganed both games to find exact solution to his deck, blockers and removals to stay on defense. Never saw a lifelinker…
And the best part, he just played 20 damage of burn to my face at EACH FUCKING GAME :argh:

As I expected, Chains was still good in our metagame. Next week-end is ProTour so I’ll see what I’d like to play after RW more precisely.
The synergy between Thunderbreak Regent and Draconic Roar does not justify playing a quite less impressive 4 drops flyer. I still prefer the Phoenix at this spot with flexible Lightning Strikes. I was disappointed by this point.
The rest of the deck is well known by everyone here, I won’t go further into details. It was my goodbye to this deck I love :love:

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Lightning_Dolt
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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:06 pm

Thunderbreak Regent > Ashcloud Phoenix.

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Pedrobear
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Postby Pedrobear » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:58 am

I prefer to see my opponents wasting 2 removals on the Phoenix than 1 removal and 3 life.

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Postby Khaospawn » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:30 pm

Their both role players as far as I'm concerned. Neither one replaces the other in any specific circumstance, but each one has its place when deckbuilding. If you choose to go the Dragon/Draconic Roar route, you need to play all four regents plus Stormbreath (obviously), but that leaves little room for Phoenix. If you go more removal heavy, focusing more on a burn style/control-ish route, then Phoenix does a lot of work (especially since you're not going to have a lot of room for a bunch of regents).
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.


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