R/W Aggro

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Postby dpaine88 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:25 am

I thought he said Ashcloud?
Burn baby burn!

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Postby Lightning_Dolt » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:05 am

Oopps, getting my birds confused.

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Postby Khaospawn » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:50 am

It's probably a better call over Gryff
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby dpaine88 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:58 pm

Looks like my messages from my phone didnt send...

Shahar was on Sidisi Whip btw.

Also came across this RW Splash Doom list on ChannelFIreball article.

by Josh Silvestri

[deck]
Lands
1 x Swamp
1 x Plains
5 x Mountain
4 x Bloodstained Mire
4 x Temple of Triumph
4 x Nomad Outpost
3 x Battlefield Forge
3 x Caves of Koilos
Creatures
3 x Seeker of the Way
4 x Soulfire Grand Master
4 x Goblin Rabblemaster
2 x Butcher of the Horde
Noncreature Spells
4 x Hordeling Outburst
4 x Stoke the Flames
4 x Crackling Doom
2 x Wild Slash
1 x Valorous Stance
4 x Outpost Siege
3 x Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard
3 x Anger of the Gods
3 x Ashcloud Phoenix
2 x Erase
2 x Glare of Hersey
2 x Mastery of the Unseen
2 x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
[/deck]
Burn baby burn!

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:55 pm

Splash black, do not collect 200 dollars, go straight to x-2.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Aodh » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:44 pm

Not worth.

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Postby Khaospawn » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:41 pm

To be fair, the deck did win a 200 person 5K last weekend. :lol:
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Self Medicated » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:50 pm

Well, I ask because Doom's mentioned in more than one article in the last week.

Adam Yurchick wrote in his article today, "Crackling Doom isn't as efficient as Chained to the Rocks, but as a burn spell its more aggressive and better against control. It's also not vulnerable to enchantment removal and cards like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon."

Josh Silvestri from his article yesterday, "It really goes to show you just how strong Crackling Doom is at the moment, it’s by far one of the best spells you can have against Forest decks and is acceptable in nearly any matchup."

And once more from Silvestri (can you tell I value your opinion jsilv?):
@it's worse than R/W: I actually tried this bc Stark specifically said after talking with Sam Black that his deck would've been much better w/ Crackling Doom. The mana is basically on the same level as Jeskai and there's nothing in RW that replicates what Crackling Doom does for the deck. Butcher can basically be any big dumb thing, I just like it because Butcher is a 4-drop and gives us options late when the 2/2's are sitting there being useless. This is why so little of the main RW deck was changed. This is a build aimed at winning mirrors and having a reasonable shot vs. bigger Forest decks.
I just want to get a dialogue going about the future direction of this deck.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:13 pm

The barely mardu deck is basically what you want to play if you think the metagame allows you to play slightly slower while getting more power. It's particularly effective vs. Green devotion and doom gives you less dead cards vs. various control shells since it still deals damage and is easier to justify in postboard games as opposed to chain which is likely necessary but doesn't hit silumgar and gets answered by sultai charm out of sultai.

Logic nigga.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Self Medicated » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:22 pm

The barely mardu deck is basically what you want to play if you think the metagame allows you to play slightly slower while getting more power. It's particularly effective vs. Green devotion and doom gives you less dead cards vs. various control shells since it still deals damage and is easier to justify in postboard games as opposed to chain which is likely necessary but doesn't hit silumgar and gets answered by sultai charm out of sultai.

Logic nigga.
This makes sense to me. Very good explanation LP.
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Khaospawn » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:15 pm wrote:SM, you complete me. :love:

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Postby dpaine88 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:32 am

The 5k deck wasnt running Chained to the Rocks FWIW
Burn baby burn!

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:50 am

Because Cuvi was smart.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby dpaine88 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:52 am

Would it be crazy to run Magma Jet over lightning strike?
Burn baby burn!

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Postby Valdarith » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:59 am

Harder to kill Courser after it blocks a goblin token.
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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:08 am

Tbh, I've been missing M-Jet.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:09 am

But LS is very important to have.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby dpaine88 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:51 am

Is it really though?
Burn baby burn!

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:11 am

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:16 am

Sidisi basically got pushed out of standard by Ugin.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:27 am

I'm not convinced.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:36 am

I'm not saying cut lightning strike.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:16 am

Okay. I'm now glad that I'm at computer...

Last night, I had a few beers and was poring over the pile I'm considering bringing to Miami. I'm really torn between cutting the dragons main in favor of Grandmasters and more Sieges. After moving some things around, I ended up with a "hybrid" deck.

Imagine my chagrin...or joy...when I read CVM's article today.

Read it. I'll wait.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30 ... Miami.html

Done? Okay.

I think it's crazy that I had a (mostly) original idea and then I read in the morning that somebody else has thought of it too. Crazy, right?

Anyways, here's what I had last night:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Soulfire Grandmaster
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Wild Slash
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
3 Plains
11 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge

Sideboard 15
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Mastery of the Unseen
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Valorous Stance
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
3 Arc Lightning
[/deck]

It seems interesting. It has all the cards I do want to play. But most importantly, I wonder how Purphoros will be. I think it is an unbeatable card against certain decks, like Sultai (or even Abzan) control. He "combos" with Mastery and even Phoenixes. It's possible that, even against decks that clog the battlefield, Purphoros could make the difference in a showdown.

Tell me I'm crazy. Please.

Talk some damn sense into me.
Last edited by Khaospawn on Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:18 am

I feel that my "hybrid" deck may come down to the lone Chandra vs. a 3rd Stormbreath.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:12 am

The 60 is now looking more to be like this:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
1 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wild Slash
1 Magma Jet
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
3 Plains
11 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
[/deck]

I just want to squeeze as much value out of the deck as I can.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:18 am

I'm fine with the purphoros. I think you want to cut that phoenix for and a dragon for 2 drops. Grandmaster, stance, strike, slash, any of the them, preferably grandmaster. It's imperative that your game 1 curve is low for the smoothest most interactive curve possible with all the sieging going on.

As a matter of fact, I'd definitely add a wild slash and grandmaster and call that deck a go.

That mana confluence is offensive but whatever.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:21 am

My manabase is non-negotiable. It hasn't failed me in months, aside from just random no landers into mulliganed no landers (hey, shit happens).

LP, write out YOUR version of the 60. Please.

Your input is highly appreciated right now.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:52 am

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Wild Slash
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Plains
10 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
[/deck]

Pry my grandmasters from my cold dead fingers. I'll buy the hype on pilgrim and a lone stormbreath main for value.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby photodyer » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:04 am

Awesome discussion, gentlemen...I miss this a BUNCH. Hopefully things are leveling to where I can actually be around regular-like again.

I will tell you that I'm absolutely intimidated...I'm going with RW on the Magic Cruise as my Standard deck and have a great chance of having to play it (unless plans have changed) against Ben Stark. Oh, I so don't want to embarrass myself...
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:17 am

Tip about Ben Stark: the man loves to here himself talk and I imagine considers himself and educator. If you want to know anything about magic, he well tell you EVERYTHIGN and then some.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby jsilv » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:14 am

I tried the Mardu build that 7-0'd the PTQ and like it a little more than my own. I'm either playing it or Abzan Control (because Abzan Control has no truly terrible matches ATM).

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Postby GoblinWarchief » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:32 am

Actually the "hybrid" deck that khaos posted in something that i'm considering since some days.
The real debate since stark's list has been playing grandmasters or playing dragon.
I liked grand master a lot immediately when it was printed, because it's a decent early drop that can take over the game in the late turns meanwhile providing lifegain.
But i am not comfortable cutting dragons completely because flying creatures are essential against green decks.
Also i'm not convinced playing 4 sieges maindeck is essential, because i don't want to find myself with too much of them in hand and experiment the feeing i had when playing jeskai tokens and drawing 3-4 cruises/ascendancies (aka the do nothing hand).
I think that a balance can be found, and personally i like 2 grandmasters, 2-3 dragons and 3 sieges maindeck with extra fliers in sideboard. 6 two drops is a number that i am comfortable with, and now that caryatid is seeing less play i could also see a 3/3 split between seeker and grandmaster but probably it's not a good idea.
About magma jet, i really like playing it. I understand that wild slash is a fantastic tempo play, and lightning strike deals 1 more damage .... but playing a couple magma jets replacing 1 strike and 1 slash really makes me feel much more confident about not flooding out. In my opinion the advantage of scrying 2 is worth losing very few power.
Last thing i want to mention is stark writing in his article that mastery of the unseen is now less effective because control decks (abzan and sultai) have access to enchantment removal and he'd rather play ashcloud phoenix now. What do you think about it?
I suppose i should also post a list but since i have a pptq on sunday i will post it assuming that i don't change my mind and just play mono red.

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Postby GoblinWarchief » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:39 am

Another random thought : if you decide to play 4 outpost sieges, as stark mentioned you are playing sort of a control deck. He said that dragon is not a good/necessary card in a deck able to create so much card advantage, also because if you tap out turn 4 to play siege, you will need to hit spells to recover your tempo loss and possibly stay on defense, a job really not suited for dragon. So what about playing 2 wingmate roc in lists with 4 sieges ?

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Postby Pedrobear » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:19 am

Is wingmate roc a good defensive card ? I don't think so.

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Postby dpaine88 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:56 pm

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.
I will say that I have not played against a Sidisi or Mantis in over 2 months, maaybe just how things lined up for me.


Whats this 7-0 PTQ list? I couldnt find it online, only 4 of the top8 from the MTGO PTQ

Was it Jeskai or Mardu? Just saw an article by Yurchick referencing a 7-0 list but its Jeskai.

I am actually considering Jeskai myself for this weekend. Got a Super IQ $1k and a PPTQ.

Feel like all the good players are on Junk or BUG Control. Jeskai seems better vs them, and still good in mirror/RW.

Thoughts?
Burn baby burn!

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Postby dpaine88 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:40 pm

@Jsilv - I havnt been on this site as much as I'd like in past 6 months, are you the Jsilv that does content for CHannel Fireball? If so your thoughts on the RW splashes would be awesome.
Burn baby burn!

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Postby Kaitscralt » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:45 pm

Tip about Ben Stark: the man loves to here himself talk and I imagine considers himself and educator. If you want to know anything about magic, he well tell you EVERYTHIGN and then some.
whereas you can barely formulate a coherent sentence
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby NotARobot » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.
I will say that I have not played against a Sidisi or Mantis in over 2 months, maaybe just how things lined up for me.


Whats this 7-0 PTQ list? I couldnt find it online, only 4 of the top8 from the MTGO PTQ

Was it Jeskai or Mardu? Just saw an article by Yurchick referencing a 7-0 list but its Jeskai.

I am actually considering Jeskai myself for this weekend. Got a Super IQ $1k and a PPTQ.

Feel like all the good players are on Junk or BUG Control. Jeskai seems better vs them, and still good in mirror/RW.

Thoughts?
Pretty sure he means this mardu list, it was an online ptq?

[deck]
Creatures
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
3 Stoke the Flames
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Outpost Siege

Lands
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
5 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Swamp
2 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Erase
3 Mastery of the Unseen
4 Thoughtseize
2 Valorous Stance
2 Wild Slash
[/deck]

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Postby Self Medicated » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:59 pm

I tried the Mardu build that 7-0'd the PTQ and like it a little more than my own. I'm either playing it or Abzan Control (because Abzan Control has no truly terrible matches ATM).
Trying to find the list but no luck so far. Do you have a link?

EDIT: Oops. Seems I'm late to the party.
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Khaospawn » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:15 pm wrote:SM, you complete me. :love:

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Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Seems I'm late to the party.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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LP, of the Fires
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:41 pm

Seems I'm late to the party.
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First episode of south park I ever saw.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin


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