W/U Heroic

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Jack
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W/U Heroic

Postby Jack » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:24 am

This deck is real.
I haven't played a standard event yet this season, but I'm probably getting into the scene with this deck.

Discuss.
:frog:
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Postby GoblinWarchief » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:30 am

It's very real :) i feel like it is similar to last season's aura hexproof deck : most of the times you are doing absolutely broken things, but sometimes you draw the wrong part of your deck and do nothing.
Zemanjaski's testing the deck too, he wrote some posts in the clan thread. Let's see if he comes here.

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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:37 am

:munch:
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby GoblinWarchief » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:22 pm

I am currently playing a 7th protection spell main deck , (ajani's presence), plus the stock six (4 god's willing 2 feat of resistance). I like it because i feel like if i don't have a protection spell i can only:
- play creature after creature, that can be decent against control/heavy removal deck but useless against midrange that will just play bigger beasts
- try and voltron up a guy anyway with the risk of getting 2 for 1ed or worse. the risk is usually too high because they will almost always have at least 1 removal.
I chose ajani's presence because of the occasional blowout against people who think they can kill everything with an end hostilities game 1. I know it is bad against exile effects, but i also didn't want another feat because of 2 mana vs 1.

Zem, why do you have 0 lagonna band trailblazer in your list ? While 0 power is bad because you can't sneak in some points of damage, 4 toughness is huge against decks like jeskai that rely on lightning strike/magma jet/anger of the gods/stoke the flames to answer your threats. Just pump him once and he is out of range of every removal spell except jeskai charm...... also, a wall is nice against boss sligh or other extreme aggro strategies. I think he can do some work as a 2-3 of in sideboard.

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:08 am

Updated decklist after finishing top 4 at a PPTQ.

[deck=UW Heroic]
Creatures
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Favored Hoplite
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Hero of Iroas
3 Seeker of the Way

Non-creature Spells
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
4 Defiant Strike
2 Feat of Resistance
4 God's Willing
1 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Singing Bell Strike
1 Stratus Walk
1 Treasure Cruise

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mana Confluence
8 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove

Sideboard
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
1 Battle Mastery
1 Erase
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Mortal Obstinancy
1 Negate
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Wavecrash Triton[/deck]

I know, not enough singletons.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby Jack » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:50 am

zemanjaski » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:08 pm wrote:Updated decklist after finishing top 4 at a PPTQ.

I know, not enough singletons.

Seriously. You should work on that. A zem sideboard needs at least 13 unique cards.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:06 am

Brimaz and Triton Tactics are worth consideration.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby donasdux » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:32 am

Thanks for getting a deck list up. I never heard anything about this deck until this past FNM, when it steamrolled me so bad G1 I was embarrassed.

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:55 am

Update.

[deck=UW Heroic]
Creatures
4 Battlewise Hoplite
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Favored Hoplite
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Hero of Iroas
3 Seeker of the Way

Non-Creature Spells
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
4 Defiant Strike
1 Feat of Resistance
4 Gods Willing
1 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Singing Bell Strike
1 Stratus Walk
1 Stubborn Denial

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mana Confluence
8 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove

Sideboard
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
1 Battle Mastery
1 Erase
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Mortal Obstinacy
1 Ordeal of Heliod
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Wavecrash Triton
[/deck]
Image

redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:16 am

Want to test this:

[deck=UW Heroic]
Creatures
4 Favored Hoplite
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Hero of Iroas
2 Logonna-Band Trailblazer
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Seeker of the Way

Non-creature Spells
2 Ajani's Presence
4 Defiant Strike
4 God's Willing
1 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Singing Bell Strike
4 Stratus Walk

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Mana Confluence
6 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Tranquil Cove

Sideboard
1 Abzan falconer
1 Ajani's presence
1 erase
1 glare of heresy
2 lagonna band trailblazer
1 mortal obstinacy
1 negate
2 ordeal of Heliod
3 stubborn denial
2 treasure cruise
[/deck]
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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LP, of the Fires
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:46 pm

I don't consider Singing bell strike remotely playable as the matches where it's good in have a decent capacity for going long and would be much happier seeing aqueous form in that slot which is actually game winning a lot of the time.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Mcdonalds » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:50 am

I take it this deck is good at beating up the whip/midrange strategies while being weak to control?

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Postby GoblinWarchief » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:38 am

This deck is good against any green strategy, whip or not, mainly because of the ability to make an unblockable giant creature and kill them before they get their powerful but slow engines going.
I usually feel favoured against control... it is harder than midrange because they have more removal/counters , but you know, they are still playing 5 mana wraths that you can counter with 1 mana stubborn denial or ajani's presence, and you also have the ability to draw more cards than the control deck.
The deck struggles a bit against red strategies, that can put a fast clock while threatening cheap removal spells against your guys. Even if we have ordeal of heliod in our deck, i feel the best way to beat us is racing... rabblemaster is insane since we have no removals.
Worst matchup is mardu because crackling doom =no fun.
Thoughtseize is a pain to play against ... when you keep a 1 creature hand and they make you discard it you feel silly for playing this deck. But i'm ok with it because it is the price of playing a pile of card that is sometimes absolutely broken.

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Postby zemanjaski » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:45 am

You're weak against Tokens (jeskai charm) and Mardu (crackling doom); you're good to go vs anything else.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

Jack
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Postby Jack » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:21 pm

I'm also finding out that it's not a very easy or forgiving deck. It's pretty simple, but I still feel that I get blown out because I don't know the meta very well. Not a great choice for my first Khans deck.
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Postby Jack » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:22 pm

It's also like $35 for everything but the fetches, though, and that's what prompted me to build it.
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Postby Jack » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:23 pm

I know, that makes me everything that's wrong with magic players right now
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Postby zemanjaski » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:10 am

Yep. Play better. Admittedly the deck is rocket science compared to Mardu or Abzan so you can be given some slack.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:07 pm

Really cool to see that Tom Ross adopted a lot of the changes I had come to as well.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:46 pm

Update. Top 4 another event today. Le sigh. Did 4-0 Jeskai Tokens though.

[deck=UW Heroic]
Creatures
4 Battlewise Hoplite
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Favored Hoplite
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Hero of Iroas
3 Seeker of the Way

Non-Creature Spells
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
4 Defiant Strike
1 Feat of Resistance
4 Gods Willing
1 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Stratus Walk
1 Stubborn Denial

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mana Confluence
8 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove

Sideboard
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Dig Through Time
1 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Mortal Obstinacy
1 Ordeal of Heliod
3 Stubborn Denial
[/deck]
Image

redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby Mr. Metronome » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:02 pm

I haven't been playing MTGO much, how is this deck situated for the standard meta online?

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:23 pm

I only draft online now; playing all constructed in paper with the SNS crew.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby PrimalBurn » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Hey guys quick question in my local meta still have a couple of red aggro players and having trouble with that matchup, most likely because Im a bad player lol. Anyway without removal it seems like I fall behind early to reds fast draws and it gets very hard to catch up. Besides the obvious idea of bringing in brimaz any other tips on approaching the matchup that Im not seeing?

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Postby zemanjaski » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:33 pm

You need to try and get them to spend their mana inefficiently or in ways that stop them from progressing their board then gain life as much as possible.

You should also SB a Mortal's Ardour or Hopeful Eidolon.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:28 pm

Image

redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:35 pm

Friend and I took out 1/2 in today's PPTQ.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby BiddingMaster » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:02 am

PrimalBurn » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:30 pm wrote:Hey guys quick question in my local meta still have a couple of red aggro players and having trouble with that matchup, most likely because Im a bad player lol. Anyway without removal it seems like I fall behind early to reds fast draws and it gets very hard to catch up. Besides the obvious idea of bringing in brimaz any other tips on approaching the matchup that Im not seeing?


three seekers of the way in the main and a second ordeal of heliod in the side works wonders for me but if there are more red decks doing well then you can consider more ordeals in the side. I have a list that wont do you any good because i have almost no sideboard cards vs aggro players because there are so few and i do well enough that I dodge them after round three.
I have a 2/2 split and a 1/1 split between seeker/ordeals and I have not needed more than that myself.

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Postby BiddingMaster » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:03 am

Mr. Metronome » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:02 am wrote:I haven't been playing MTGO much, how is this deck situated for the standard meta online?


Bad i think. Mardu midrange/jeskai tokes are a good portion of the meta which are your worst matchups. I my list scews to beat them just for that reason.

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Postby BiddingMaster » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:04 am

Lord_Mcdonalds » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:50 pm wrote:I take it this deck is good at beating up the whip/midrange strategies while being weak to control?



God no. The deck is sweet vs control. I have a good win % against it. Whip decks are a joke vs us.

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Postby BiddingMaster » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:11 am

Jack » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:21 pm wrote:I'm also finding out that it's not a very easy or forgiving deck. It's pretty simple, but I still feel that I get blown out because I don't know the meta very well. Not a great choice for my first Khans deck.


The thing is you are a deck that capitalizes on small windows of opportunity and not knowing the meta will be back breaking. You have to play two turns ahead or you will lose more than you win. Im not saying its bad for your first khans standard deck but the deck will reward you more and more for every match you put in with the deck. I was on the fence with this deck and i took it to a pptq and top 8'ed with it because i knew every deck in the format so I knew what I needed to play and when. Its pretty sweet and is good vs a majority of the field. I find that tokens/mardu are small enough of the field that you can reasonaly dodge them in any given event.

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Postby BiddingMaster » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:15 am

[deck]
creatures
3 lagonna-band trailblazer
1 favored hoplite
4 battlewise hoplite
4 hero of iroas
2 seeker of the way
3 heliod's prilgrim

enchantments
1 ordeal of heliod
1 aqueous form
1 stratus walk
4 ordeal of thassa

instants
4 defiant strike
4 gods willing
2 negate
3 stubborn denial
1 dig through time

lands
4 flooded strand
4 temple of enlightenment
4 mana confluence
2 tranquil cove
6 plains
2 island

sideboard
1 ordeal of heliod
1 dig through time
1 aqueous form
1 stubborn denial
1 ajani's prescence
2 seeker of the way
3 disdainful stroke
3 swan song
2 feat of resistance

[/deck]

this is what im currently running for local pptq's, ptq's, and iq's in my area. So far ive been impressed by this list and I take patrick dickman's stance on the list. Every card in the deck has a reason for being there and I would not change my list again until the rotation of the format with fate reforged and I would go into my last event with this exact 75.

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:40 pm

I don't understand large parts of that deck. It looks horrendous honestly.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:48 pm

So I am looking at something a little lower to the ground that can move in for the kill faster:

[deck=UW Heroic]
Creatures
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Seeker of the Way

Non-Creature Spells
1 Ajani's Presence
4 Defiant Strike
3 Feat of Resistance
4 Gods Willing
1 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
3 Stratus Walk
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Treasure Cruise

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mana Confluence
8 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove

Sideboard
WIP
[/deck]

Feedback very welcome.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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Postby Purp » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:01 pm

BiddingMaster » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:15 pm wrote: I would not change my list again until the rotation of the format with fate reforged and I would go into my last event with this exact 75.



I can't help but think this is a bad idea.
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yurp yurp

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Postby BiddingMaster » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:57 am

zemanjaski » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:40 am wrote:I don't understand large parts of that deck. It looks horrendous honestly.


The reason it looks very funky is because mardu midrange was very big in my local meta which warped the decklist to this configuration. With the amount of people doing well enough with the deck I was not able to reliably dodge the deck in any given event. I talked to a few guys who were running mardu and now they are not so its possible that I should just be able to dodge it completely. It keeps on winning so its hard to tell whether or not this is a good build of it but i keep top 8'ing with it. I like the build because it gives a clear line of victory where your list and the list and tom ross's list is hard for me to understand. If you want to discuss particular parts of the deck I can try to defend it with the logic that I used to build it.

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Postby BiddingMaster » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:58 am

Purp » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:01 am wrote:
BiddingMaster » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:15 pm wrote: I would not change my list again until the rotation of the format with fate reforged and I would go into my last event with this exact 75.



I can't help but think this is a bad idea.


lol. why is that? as long as no new deck enters the format this deck is doing well enough for me to keep it in this configuration. If it aint broke dont fix it.

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Postby GoblinWarchief » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:20 pm

What are your thoughts on Monastery Mentor ? Josh Silvestri mentioned his applications in U/W heroic in his most recent article on channelfireball , also referring to the build in zem's article (by the way, very good article) . I hope mentor will not be necessary because i don't want to waste money on it, but if he's worth it i will make the sacrifice .
Personally I'm not in love with him/brimaz/fabled hero any 3 drop creature besides heliod's pilgrim. I don't know if the plan to add some creatures stronger on their own works at all and for this purpose brimaz is probably better because he doesn't need support, while mentor would just be like another seeker of the way (way stronger, but costs 3), and we all know seeker is usually the worst card in the deck.

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Postby Jamie » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:40 pm

Monastery Mentor won't be winning anything for at least a month so don't include it in your deck

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Postby zemanjaski » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:55 pm

It's a good SB card but not even necessarily as good as Brimaz.
Image

redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem


Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
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Postby BiddingMaster » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:45 pm

monastery mentor dies to burn spells and small removal which is where brimaz is really good at that. Im not sure if this is the shell that uses it best.


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