Primer: Temur Aggro UPDATED

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Primer: Temur Aggro UPDATED

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:28 am

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New Format means new decks! New Standard means new toys to play with while some of our current toys still have some life left in them. This standard season I wanted to have and build a deck that was aggressive but also had creatures that were must answer threats at any point of the game. Very reminiscent of how I felt Big Boros played at the beginning of RTR/Theros standard.

UPDATE 10/26/2014
Temur has had some recent success with Kibler nearly missing top 8 at GP LA and Einar Baldvinsson making it to the finals of GP Stockholm. I will be cleaning up the primer to better reflect their decks as well as explain my own card choices for my current build.

Why Aggro instead of Monsters?
G/R/x Monster builds rely on the Caryatid/Courser duo for their early turns while ramping into big threats much earlier than the norm. While the duo are extremely powerful and Courser's stock shoots through the roof with the fetches, I always felt the duo put you more into a defensive position and do nothing to put you into an aggressive position when needed. While there is an expectation of Mono Red/Black aggro decks to hit the format on its onset the big contenders will be midrange decks running the same duo and eventual control decks that will figure how to beat the duo and the small aggro decks.

Enter my initial attempt at Temur Aggro. The deck still does use ramping creatures to get ahead of the curve but in the form of the Mystics. Elvish Mystic allows for early explosive plays being a turn 2 Rabblemaster or Savage Knuckleblade. Rattleclaw Mystic fills in the Caryatid ramp spot but is able to get in for 2 damage when needed. The other creatures include Monster deck mainstays Stormbreath Dragon and Polukranos because they are the best at their mana cost and both must answer threats that win the game if left alone.

The Beats:
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The offensive and defensive juggernaut who also happens to be able to swing in for 3 with his ferocity trigger.

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Brian Kibler has stated that this card is the weakest one in the deck but it enables Ferocity triggers as well as combat tricks.

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Savage Knuckleblade is another must answer threat that is relevant at any point in the game. He is a mana sink that can get bigger, swing the turn he comes in OR dodge removal.

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Flying evasion threat that triggers ferocity.

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Stormbreath Dragon is a 4/4 flying beater that blanks white removal. He can block Butchers and Wingmate Rocs all day as well.

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Polukranos has a lot going for him. He costs 4 and has a 5/5 body. He also is a wrath on a stick. A very big stick.

Support:
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The Mystics. Your go to rampers. Elvish enables turn 2 Rabble or Knuckle beats while Rattleclaw allows you to get in for 2 OR set up Polukranos a turn early OR have Knuckleblade come in swinging.

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The Dragonspeaker doubles as a beater as well as removal.

Lists:
[deck=Einar Baldvinsson - Temur Aggro, GP Stockholm 2nd Place]Creature (27)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Boon Satyr
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalker (1)
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Sorcery (4)
4 Crater's Claws

Instant (5)
3 Lightning Strike
2 Temur Charm

Land (23)
3 Mana Confluence
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
2 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Arc Lightning
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Magma Spray
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Surrak Dragonclaw[/deck]

[deck=Brian Kibler's GPLA List]4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Boon Satyr
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Ashcloud Phoenix

1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Crater’s Claws
3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm

4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
3 Forest
2 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Magma Spray
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker[/deck]

NBW Departures from the established:
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Goblin Rabblemaster is showing to be a pillar of the new format. When left alone this is greenskin bastard can take over the game.

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Stoke the Flame is your go to removal spell. It kills damn near everything that gets in your way.

Why am I playing Rabblemaster many others are choosing not to?
Because my meta is allowing me to. Kibler's Temur Aggro build is pretty well suited to deal with a variety of decks. My meta on the other hand is a heavy Courser midrange/control field. Rabblemaster on turn 2 is a powerful play that most of my opponents have a tough time handling. He does not reliably enable ferocity but he strengthens your Elvish Mystic draws in comparison to Boon Satyr.

Stubborn Denial VS Temur Charm Maindeck
I originally tried Temur Charm during my initial build of my deck but found it to never really work for me. While I was ahead it made sure I stayed ahead but when I was behind? Never gave me a chance. Kibler feels the same way. Temur Charm does shore up the Mono Green Devotion match up but with the meta pushing the deck out Kibler has stated that bringing in Stubborn Denial into the main deck would improve the Abzan and control match ups quite a bit. Since my meta is heavy on Abzan and control I use Stubborn Denial.

Stoke the Flame VS Lightning Strike
I run stoke due to the lack of small aggro and Jeskai decks in the my current meta. Lightning Strike allows you to deal with small aggro as well as Jeskai Win's Mantis Rider and Rabblemasters. Stoke on the other hand hits the magic number in the current meta and allows me to save my Rabblemaster and tokens if they would to be killed by opposing blockers. No small aggro or Jeskai decks in the meta? Run stoke to handle their big creatures.

Here is my current list:
[deck=NBW Current list]Creatures 25
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Heir of the Wilds
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Ashcloud Phoenix

2 Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker

Spells 9
3 Stoke the Flames
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Crater's Claw

Lands 24
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
2 Frontier Bivouac
5 Forest
3 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Arc Lightning
3 Magma Spray
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 ???[/deck]
Last edited by NerdBoyWonder on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:01 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Toblakai » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:18 am

I'd be very interested in why play Temur Aggro over Monsters. Also, what advantage do we get from Rattleclaw Mystic vs Sylvan Caryatid? Both get swept by Anger of the Gods, but the Caryatid is, at least, protected from targeted removal.

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Postby Kaitscralt » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:21 am

Because the deck banner is symmetrical
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:04 am

Toblakai » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:18 pm wrote:I'd be very interested in why play Temur Aggro over Monsters. Also, what advantage do we get from Rattleclaw Mystic vs Sylvan Caryatid? Both get swept by Anger of the Gods, but the Caryatid is, at least, protected from targeted removal.



Being aggressive instead of defensive and reactive is my big point. This is more of a player choice than is deck A better than deck B. Rattleclaw allows you to attack with it while also ramping. Yes, it DTRs when compared to Caryatid BUT Caryatid is in shells that want to bring in a number of 5 and 6 drops and when you don't get the ramp or lose the ramp you are stuck with a hand with cards that you won't always be able to play. I'm stopping at 5 with Stormbreath and Sarkhan. Everything can be played on curve, turns ahead or later in the game. The creature choices thus far are to minimize bad top decks as well as be aggressive. Not saying they are correct but just stating where I am focusing my efforts in the direction of my deck building.
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Postby Toblakai » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:10 am

Fine point. I like that we can recover from Anger of the Gods moreso than the Caryatid/Courser combo deck. I would suggest removing Arc Lightning in favor of Crater's Claws. Being able to take down larger threats like Siege Rhino without having to bank on getting Stormbreath Dragon in hand seems useful. Anger of the Gods should be a good enough sweeper spell for this deck as well, since it can theoretically recover quicker than the Caryatid/Courser reliant builds.

Kait, you're wrong...its because Knuckleblade and Rattleclaw have fantastic artwork.

Temur Charm also seems really good as a removal spell. Here's my take

[DECK]
Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Icefeather Aven
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon


Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells
4 Lightning Strike

Lands
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Mystery
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Frontier Bivouac

Sideboard
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Temur Charm
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
[/DECK]

A somewhat revised version. It kind of plays along a curve following your original build, NBW. If nothing else, Icefeather Aven is a 2/2 flyer, so semi evasion is decent. Having that Morph is what I really like, though. I'm wondering if Chandra can't be a desperate man's Domri in this deck? Playing Jund Monsters, the +1 is what I used most with Domri. Here, we have Chandra's 0 ability. Her +1 could also help punch through problematic spells. Our mana base offers 12 sources of blue mana, which should let me morph the Aven regularly.
Last edited by Toblakai on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:37 am

Toblakai » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:10 pm wrote:Fine point. I like that we can recover from Anger of the Gods moreso than the Caryatid/Courser combo deck. I would suggest removing Arc Lightning in favor of Crater's Claws. Being able to take down larger threats like Siege Rhino without having to bank on getting Stormbreath Dragon in hand seems useful. Anger of the Gods should be a good enough sweeper spell for this deck as well, since it can theoretically recover quicker than the Caryatid/Courser reliant builds.

Kait, you're wrong...its because Knuckleblade and Rattleclaw have fantastic artwork.

Temur Charm also seems really good as a removal spell. Here's my take

[DECK]
Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Heir to the Wilds
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells
3 Crater's Claws
2 Temur Charm
3 Stoke the Flames

Lands
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Frontier Bivouac
4 Forest
1 Island
4 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Temur Charm
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
[/DECK]

I plan to slap this together for my first brew. Disdainful Stroke could be really good in the coming meta vs Mardu, possibly Jund and other big monster decks.


Temur Charm is okay. From what I have played so far is that it is great to keep you ahead but when you are behind it does nothing. I have yet to test the Arc Lightnings but my reasoning for having 2 in the main so far is that at worse they are a 3 Mana Lightning Strike and at best they wipe my opponents board. I'm against Anger in this build to avoid blowing up my own board as well even if we can recoup well.

Stubborn Denial is a card we definitely want in some form. Testing them in the main just to see where we would want them. Should be testing tomorrow night so I will report how that goes. Keranos was definitely on my radar with Mardu/Thoughtseize decks running around. Also was eyeing Ashcloud Phoenix after LP and Khaos have been raving about it because of its resiliency.
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Postby Toblakai » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:33 pm

I'm switching the charms to Lightning Strikes. Surrak Dragonclaw might merit consideration for our SBs, as we can fold pretty hard to Disdainful Stroke. Heir has been decent, though I wonder if we aren't better served with Icefeather Aven? Its morph ability could provide the disruption we need to make our game winning pushes. I have edited my original deck to reflect my changes, based on playtesting.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:04 am

Going to try the Aven and Crater Claw tonight. Stbborn Denial is good but not mainboard good. Definitley having them in the side along with Arc Lightning. Will report back later with results.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:52 pm

Full update when I get home but I hate Seige Rhino with a passion. Going to have to find a way to deal with him.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:10 am

Played against 2 Abzan Caryatid/Courser/Siege Rhino decks yesterday. The matches were pretty even. Lots of back and forth unless either of us drew ridiculous. If they go Caryatid into Courser into Rhino while we have no acceleration they gain so much life the game is out of our reach. On the other hand if they don't hit Rhino even if they hit Caryatid/Courser and we draw decent it is an even game. If we get an Elvish Mystic into 3 drop start even with a Caryatid/Courser draw we pretty much going to run over them.

Have no opinion on Icefeather Aven as I played it once morphed and never unflipped him. Did manage to get him killed morph as my Abzan opponent killed him instead of my Knuckleblade that repeatedly beat his face in. Crater's Claw is okay and does kill Rhino but I don't feel it lets us actually win. Sorin can be a pain in the ass too which pretty much confirmed Life Gain is a major issue for the deck.

Stubborn Denial played very well and was pretty easy to turn on but won't always be good in all match ups so I relegated it to the side to deal bring in against Removal/Planeswalker heavy decks.

Right now I am having issue with trying to find the correct support spells for the deck be it enchantments, instants, sorceries or planeswalkers. Beyond Stoke i'm a bit stuck at what to run.
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Postby Toblakai » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:49 am

Well, after some rematches at my locals, I think Temur play best as a new version of the old monsters archetype, except instead of Elvish Mystic, Running Rattleclaw Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid in the two drop slot. Between Temples and my Bivouacs, I have many comes into play tapped lands, so I may as well go for the dork that can swing/give my all three colors and the dork that is an alright blocker and a resilient mana source. Heir was gimmicky, I think. My opponents were ready for it (the aggressive Mardu builds) while I wanted something really big, really quick, to close out the Jeskai Tempo MU. If we were to go the route of monsters, 2-3 Temur Charm with 4 Lightning Strike should work. Temur Charm will let us bulldoze problematic creatures while still getting in our attack for the turn. Stubborn Denial was often a hard counter for myself as well. I tried out Clever Impersonator main and really enjoyed it. I might try working in Nissa Worldwaker if I go monsters, because those 4/4 lands could be handy in dispatching problem cards like Sorin, while Courser of Kruphix can take on aggro's little guys.

Again, I realize this is deviating from your initial game plan, but I feel it one of the better routes.

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Postby Toblakai » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:28 pm

Keeping the aggressive gameplan, I wonder if we shouldn't go Jund for Rakshasa Deathdealer? It fits on a curve and gets better as we land mana sinks: your opponent will have to decide whether or not they want to throw their beaters in the path of the Deathdealer or just take the damage. Plus it can defend against End Hostilities and other removal spells with its Regenerate ability. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth makes our eight fetches for Jund into sources of black mana, which combined with some number of Temples gives us Hero's Downfall for removal and perhaps Scry the Bones to dig through our deck.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:01 am

Toblakai » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:28 pm wrote:Keeping the aggressive gameplan, I wonder if we shouldn't go Jund for Rakshasa Deathdealer? It fits on a curve and gets better as we land mana sinks: your opponent will have to decide whether or not they want to throw their beaters in the path of the Deathdealer or just take the damage. Plus it can defend against End Hostilities and other removal spells with its Regenerate ability. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth makes our eight fetches for Jund into sources of black mana, which combined with some number of Temples gives us Hero's Downfall for removal and perhaps Scry the Bones to dig through our deck.



Definitley would gain stronger removal by switching to Jund but you would replace Knuckleblade with Rakshasa "catbear" Deathdealer. Not necessarily bad but the trade off comes in the form of support spells At the cost of a creature.

I have an updated deck list that I am going to be testing this week and I am even leaning towards possibly switching to a tempo route with the deck just unsure.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:19 am

[deck]Creatures 25
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Icefeather Aven
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Crater's Claws
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands 24
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
2 Frontier Bivouac
5 Forest
3 Mountain[/deck]

Really liking how Icefeather Aven is playing in the deck. The 2/2 flyer/bounce effect has been pretty good removing a blocker back to the hand at the end of their turn to clear beats for Knuckeblade or Rabblemaster. I may try to fit Surrak in the deck some how. My meta is looking to be Mardu Control and Abzan Midrange/control which is why I brought in the Stubborn Denial mainboard. I have been liking Crater's Claw main as a way to deal with stuff that are bigger than my own stuff, mainly rhino. One thing I am looking at is a way to overcome board stalls. Going to have to squeeze Surrak into the deck some how.
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Postby Toblakai » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:59 pm

How are you performing versus Mardu control? When you say Mardu Control, I assume that you mean stuff like Butcher of the Horde, Rabblemasters, Brimaz and a dragon--either Stormbreath or Sarkhan--with spells like Crackling Doom.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:53 am

Toblakai » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:59 pm wrote:How are you performing versus Mardu control? When you say Mardu Control, I assume that you mean stuff like Butcher of the Horde, Rabblemasters, Brimaz and a dragon--either Stormbreath or Sarkhan--with spells like Crackling Doom.


Mardu Superfriends/Control. That other Mardu deck is Mardu Midrange and haven't tested against it. Against Superfriends/control I overload their removal to the point they are on the back pedal and can't keep up.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:29 am

Here are some decklists that placed pretty well at their TCG State events:

[deck=Taylor Kluska 1st Place TCG States - Nebraska]
Creatures [26]
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers [6]
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Xenagos, the Reveler

Spells [4]
2 Crater's Claws
2 Temur Charm

Lands [24]
4 Forest
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast

SIDEBOARD
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Back to Nature
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Magma Spray
2 Sagu Mauler
2 Stubborn Denial[/deck]

[deck= Eric Flickinger 2nd Place TCG States Kentucky]
Creatures [28]
2 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Sylvan Caryatid

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells [6]
2 Crater's Claws
4 Temur Charm

Lands [24]
4 Forest
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast

SIDEBOARD
2 Barrage of Boulders
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Magma Spray
2 Negate
2 Sagu Mauler
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Setessan Tactics[/deck]

[deck= Josh Kreiter 2nd Place TCG States - Idaho]
Creatures [24]
2 Arbor Colossus
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Elvish Mystic
1 Genesis Hydra
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid

Planeswalkers [5]
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

Spells [6]
2 Crater's Claws
2 Lightning Strike
2 Temur Charm

Lands [25]
6 Forest
2 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
4 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast

SIDEBOARD
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Hornet Nest
3 Polis Crusher
3 Reclamation Sage
2 Setessan Tactics
2 Stubborn Denial[/deck]
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:07 am

[deck=NBW Current Temur Aggro]
Creatures 27
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Icefeather Aven
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Sagu Mauler

Spells 9
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Temur Charm
1 Crater's Claw

Lands 24
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
2 Frontier Bivouac
5 Forest
3 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Arc Lightning
3 Magma Spray
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker
1 Xenagos, The Reveler
[/deck]

Above is what I ran to a 3-0 at FNM tonight.

Round 1 VS Abzan Midrange (2-1)
Take Game 1 I take pretty swiftly. Drop a turn 1 Elvish Mystic into a turn 2 Knuckleblade. He attempts to one for one majority of my threats but is unable to keep up and is overwhelmed. Game 2 on the other hand I had a slower hand and he managed to get the right amount of removal and threats to keep ahead and even after trying to fight through multiple Rhinos he managed to keep ahead. Game 3 I had a faster hand managing to drop a turn 2 Knuckleblade followed up by a turn 3 Ashcloud Phoenix and repeatedly beat him down.

Board In: 2 Ashcloud Phoenix, 2 Disdainful Stroke
Board Out: 3 Polukranos, 1 Temur Charm

Round 2 VS Orhzov Warriors (2-0)
I had been iffy on Polukranos because in testing while being a big body but I felt he had been slow in all my match ups. He finally showed his worth in this match up and now I am a fan. I turn one mana dork and manage to drop a Knuckleblade on my turn 2 while my opponent gets a couple of hits in. Unfortunately trade my Knuckleblade but follow up with Polukranos on turn 3. Turn 4 I have Polukranos wipe half his board and proceed to take the game from there. Game 2 my opponent kept a poor hand and was punished for it. Started off with a turn 1 dork into a Rabblemaster followed by a Knuckeblade. With him unable to get a second black source half his spells were dead in hand.

Board In: 3 Arc Lightning 3 Magma Spray
Board Out: 3 Stubborn Denial 2 Stoke the Flames 1 Crater's Claw

Round 3 VS Esper Control (2-1)
Game 1 I had to mulligan to 5 with my opening hand being ridiculous if I had at least 2 land and my second hand being a dud having no lands also. I'm on the play and my opponent top decks a Thoughtseize on his turn 1 and rips my only relevant threat for the game. He stays ahead the entire game dropping an Ashiok and countering anything I play. Game 2 was the polar opposite. He keeps a greedy hand of solid 3 costing cards but stays stuck on 2 mana for 2 turns. I drop a turn 1 dork and follow up with a morph creature. My opponent proceeds to get beat down by an unmorphed Sagu Mauler. Game 3 we were on even footing but I stretch his removal suit too thin by following up each threat by another. My final board state had a Satyr Token, a Rattleclaw Mystic, Stormbreath Dragon and Sarkhan swinging for 12 with him only being able answer 4 damage.

Board In: 2 Ashcloud Phoenix, 1 Stubborn Denial, 2 Disdainful Stroke, 1 Surrak Dragonclaw, 1 Sarkhan, 1 Xenagos
Board Out: 3 Polukranos, 1 Crater's Claw, 4 Stoke the Flames

So far the deck is doing a good job at attack my local meta and doing what I set out to do. I have had very limited match testing against Mardu Midrange and manage to not drop a match keeping the Butcher at bay majority of the time. Going to test more against Mardu Midrange and Jeskai Tempo before Game Day.
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Postby Toblakai » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:07 pm

NBW: If you expect Butcher of the Horde, maybe bring in a Sarkhan, or two, to deal with it. Here's my latest list. Having seen the Heir in some Abzan builds, I wonder if it might not merit a second look here.

[DECK=The Wildlings]
Creatures
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Heir of the Wilds
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Mountain
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
[/DECK]

[DECK=Sideboard]
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Temur Charm
3 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

I wanted to try Rabbles back in the main, moving Courser to the side. So you can go aggressive or ramp into stuff, then flood the field with cheaper creatures that beg to be dealt with. Clever Impersonator is in for shenanigans.

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:24 am

Toblakai » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:NBW: If you expect Butcher of the Horde, maybe bring in a Sarkhan, or two, to deal with it. Here's my latest list. Having seen the Heir in some Abzan builds, I wonder if it might not merit a second look here.

[DECK=The Wildlings]
Creatures
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Heir of the Wilds
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Mountain
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
[/DECK]

[DECK=Sideboard]
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Temur Charm
3 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

I wanted to try Rabbles back in the main, moving Courser to the side. So you can go aggressive or ramp into stuff, then flood the field with cheaper creatures that beg to be dealt with. Clever Impersonator is in for shenanigans.


After acquiring a second copy of Sarkhan I have brought 2 back into my main deck and moved the Sagu Mauler's back to the side. It has worked out fine. Going to look into Clever Impersonator. Not entirely sure what I would bring it in against though. I'm not using Anger in my board out of preference to not clear my own board. I have tested Arc Lightning in its place along side Magma Spray and have so far stepped all over small aggro.

Here is Brian Kibler's revised list that he will be taking to GP LA. He ran a similar list at PTKTK:

[deck]Creatures (26)

1 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
3 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Boon Satyr
4 Polukranos, World Eater
Lands (24)

4 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
Spells (10)

3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm
4 Crater's Claws
Sideboard

1 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Magma Spray
4 Stubborn Denial
1 Temur Charm
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
4 Hunt the Hunter[/deck]

He wrote in the SCG premium article that he originally had Rabblemaster in place of a few cards but took it out because in his build it needed spells that could clear the way for it. He is not running any Stokes or Craters Claws.
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Postby Toblakai » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:41 am

Thanks for the update, I have tremendous respect for Kibler and a bit of fanboyism. I remember being a ten year old and seeing the report where he made it pretty far in a Chicago pro tour with a "Rithageddon" deck using Armageddon and Rith, the Awakener. Heh, I loved that deck for the dragon. A brief typo, I think, the list you've posted does have Crater's. Did Kibler say anything about the Jeskai or Mardu Midrange decks/MUs?

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:20 am

Game Day report coming soon. Took home the mat.
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Game Day Report Day 1 - 1st Place

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:10 am

[deck]Creatures 27
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Icefeather Aven
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker

Spells 9
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Crater's Claw

Lands 24
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
2 Frontier Bivouac
5 Forest
3 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Arc Lightning
3 Magma Spray
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Sagu Mauler
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Xenagos, The Reveler[/deck]

Round 1 VS My brother's Sultai Control 2-1
Game 1: My brother and I had tested our decks against the respective players of our meta except each other. My list was more of a brew while his he netdecked but we both had a good understanding of our decks but the edge I had was that I understood what to sideboard against him while he was unsure. I start off with a strong start but eventually flooded out which allowed my brother to start offing my creatures and eventually kill me with an ultimate Kiora.
Game 2: Board in 2 Ashcloud Phoenix, 2 Disdainful Stroke, 2 Sagu Mauler, 1 Xenagos, The Reveler. Board Out: 3 Icefeather Aven, 4 Stoke the Flames.
Stoke the Flames hits nothing I want to be able to kill in his deck and would just go to his face so I board them out. Icefeather Aven bounces nothing relevant. I bring in the Phoenix to overcome his removal package as well as Sagu Mauler as a surprise (note: he knows about it regardless). Disdainful Stroke is in to beat Dig Through Time, Aetherspout, and Nissa. I start off with a solid hand of Mystic into turn 2 rabblemaster. He manages to remove rabblemaster a turn after I play him but I follow up with a Knuckleblade. Knuckleblade gets through for a couple of turns. After the knuckleblade was dealt with I put a Phoenix into play while protecting him from a couple of counters. Phoenix gives me the game.
Game 3: Kept the same board. My brother mulligans down to 5 while I had to go to 6. I again open up with a Mystic into Rabblemaster draw but this time he was stuck on lands with not getting a second black source to fire off his spells. Rabblemaster followed by a Savage Knuckleblade end the match and give me the round one win.

Round 2 VS Mono Red Aggro 2-1
Game 1: He puts me on the back peddle immediately and does what any solid red deck does. Drops a bunch of one drops and I attempt to block but he eventually Lightning Strikes me to death.
Game 2: Board In: 3 Arc Lightning, 3 Magma Spray. Board Out: 3 Stubborn Denial, 3 Stormbreath Dragon. This was a really tight game and I draw none of my sideboard but I eventually would take the game over. He starts off with one drops but I make trades with my dorks to slow him down. Eventually I land a Knuckleblade which stalls his board then I follow up with my own Polukranos. I swing with a Knuckleblade. He follows up with a Harness by Force on my Polukranos. My following turn I monsterous Polukranos and wipe his board consisting of a Firedrinker Satyr and another one drop. While he has no relevant threats i win in two swings.
Game 3: I draw 2 Magma Sprays and 2 Arc Lightnings. After wiping his board clean for a few turns he floods and I beat him down with a Knuckleblade and Rabblemaster to end the game quick.

Round 3 VS Abzan Midrange 2-1
Game 1: Game was a close one with my opponent ultimately taking it. I was use to the Abzan decks being heavy on the black removal so I was playing a bit conservative but by the end of the first game I figured out he was heavy on the white removal. Stormbreath was doing work going over the Siege Rhinos but game one ultimately came down to one turn. I had lethal the following turn but my opponent went for it and managed to remove my defender to give him the game.
Game 2: Board In: 2 Ashcloud Phoenix, 1 Disdainful Stroke, 2 Sagu Mauler, 1 Xenagos. Board Out: 3 Stoke the Flames, 3 Icefeather Aven. I start off with an Elvish Mystic but followed up with a morphed Rattleclaw. Opponent plays tap lands both turns and my turn 3 I explode putting a Xenagos, the Reveler in play followed by an Ashcloud Phoenix. I manage to pull all 3 copies of Stubborn Denial and a Disdainful Stroke. He lands a Siege Rhino and swings the next turn. I block with a Knuckleblade I had in play. He proceeds to Abzan Charm his Rhino after I activate my +2/+2 ability on Knucks. I counter with a Stubborn Denial. Next turn he tries to play a Sorin and was met with a counter. Then tried to play a whip and met with another counter. Ashcloud Phoenix continued to beat him in the air for the game.
Game 3: Kept the same board but this was not much of a game. He mulliganed down to 5 then was mana screwed only drawing two plains while I mystic'd into Rabblemaster followed by a Knuckleblade. A turn too late he drew his final land but the game was over.


Really loving the deck overall but plan to make some changes. Crater's Claw overperformed and will be adding one more into the mainboard taking the place of one Stoke the Flame. While I needed Lightning Strike this weekend Stoke is a better keep for my local meta as a whole with the usuals all jamming Coursers. Sideboard will be changing as well as Surrak and the other Stubborn Denial never were brought in. Icefeather Aven will also be replaced but unsure with what exactly. May bring back Heir of the Wilds.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:18 am

Here is Kibler's GPLA list. He just missed the Top 8
[deck=Brian Kibler's GPLA List]4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Boon Satyr
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Ashcloud Phoenix

1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Crater’s Claws
3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm

4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
3 Forest
2 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Magma Spray
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker[/deck]
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Postby Toblakai » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:49 am

My list moves ever closer to yours, NBW. Still, I really like Caryatid as that mostly untouchable accel. Dies to sweepers, but is otherwise decent. Since I have all these comes into play tapped lands, I chose Rattleclaw in lieu of Elvish Mystic. Or Sylvan Caryatid in lieu of Elvish Mystic.

[DECK=The Crunch]
Creatures
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers
3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Other Spells
3 Crater's Claws
3 Temur Charm

Lands
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Epiphany
2 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Shivan Reef
4 Yavimaya Coast

Sideboard
2 Hornet's Nest
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
2 Magma Spray
2 Hunt the Hunter
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Anger of the Gods[/DECK]

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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Kibler recently made an argument against Caryatid in Temur aggro in his recent SCG premium article. He is not for Caryatid for pretty much the same reason I am against it. It does not do damage and only fixes your mana because you need permanent fixing. He does state that the deck does have cards that require heavier casting cost but the damage being able to be dealt by Rattleclaw outweighs that issue and often lets him win the game because the damage adds up.

He felt Courser was weak in the deck as well as Rabblemaster. His Elvish Mystic plays weakened after he removed Rabblemaster from the deck but in its place there is Boon Satyr. Sadly he wants to cut Boon Satyr for a different 3 drop if a better one is released in the next set.

Overall Kibler's deck is solid and makes a lot of card choices due to meta concerns. Temur Charm is there to beat Green Devotion while Rabblemaster is out because of it. I have no Green devotion OR Jeskai in my local meta so the choices I have for my deck make solid sense. Rabblemaster allows me to force my Abzan or control opponents immediately play on a back peddle strengthening my Elvish Mystic draws. Having Stubborn Denial in place of Temur Charm allows me to keep my board presence and stop their removal. Stoke instead of Lightning Strike lets me kill a Courser, Brimaz, Butcher or Stormbreath that gets in the way since I won't be seeing Mantis Riders or opposing Rabblemasters in my meta.

The deck can definitely be tuned to combat your meta. If my meta was a bit more open I would probably gear my build more towards Kibler's. Fortunately for me my meta is allowing me to play all the cards I want to play right now.
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Postby Christen » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:18 am

Temur Aggro made finals in GP Stockholm. Better update first post with the list.

[deck=Einar Baldvinsson - Temur Aggro, GP Stockholm 2nd Place]
Creature (27)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Boon Satyr
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalker (1)
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Sorcery (4)
4 Crater's Claws

Instant (5)
3 Lightning Strike
2 Temur Charm

Land (23)
3 Mana Confluence
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
2 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Arc Lightning
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Magma Spray
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
[/deck]
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:55 am

Will update soon as well as add more content regarding the core lists as well as my own decklist and departure from the core list.
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Postby TBuzzsaw » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:58 am

Hey NBW, what would you consider as this deck's weakness? I'm considering trying it out since my beloved Abzan Aggro has a bad match up against my meta.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:23 am

TBuzzsaw » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:58 pm wrote:Hey NBW, what would you consider as this deck's weakness? I'm considering trying it out since my beloved Abzan Aggro has a bad match up against my meta.


Small Red Aggro seems to be the weakness. I bring in 3x Magma Sprays and 3x Arc Lightnings to handle them though. Key is to switch into control. Polukranos is an all star there. Don't be afraid to trade mana dorks for their creatures either.

I haven't tried the Dimir Perilous Vault control match up but Abzan, Mardu and other forms of control/midrange I've seen locally seem pretty solid in our favor. In my build you really want a turn 1 dork into a turn 2 Rabblemaster or Knuckleblade. If you don't then you end up having to play fair which is okay but putting them on the backpeddle immediately is key.
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Postby TBuzzsaw » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:09 am

I tested it a bit and I seem to draw into the mana dorks too much.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:17 am

TBuzzsaw » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:09 am wrote:I tested it a bit and I seem to draw into the mana dorks too much.


It happens at times. Are you on Kibler's build or my Rabble Temur build? If you are on Kibler's build one of his recent articles on SCG regarding the deck has an argument for and against the fourth Elvish Mystic. I prefer the fourth because Rabblemaster strengthens my Elvish Mystic draws. Going down a mystic won't be too bad if you are on the Kibler version.
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Postby Pedros » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:07 pm

I won my Games Day with Hooglands deck: http://themeadery.org/articles/temur-tempo-primer

Also solid choice. While I agree that Rabblemasters arent awsome, however sometimes they just are unopossed and win on their own.

Courser was ok (manabase is really unealthy) and Caryatid were soso - probably going to play Rattleclaws there.

Stormbreath Dragons were best cards in my deck. Most of my opponents have around 5 answers for it - it is house vs abzan, mardu and green devotion.

I dont know about full set of Heir. It is ok,however not great.

Notice Hoogland didnt play Craterclaws or Strikes at that time, however he changed it later.
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Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:54 pm

I stayed away from Courser because he just doesn't jive with the overall game plan. Rabblemaster could probably be replaced in the deck but I don't believe there are other cards that can replace him at this time. Also I've won too many games going Elvish Mystic into Rabblemaster on 2.

I suggest trying Ashcloud Phoenix also. Card is a beast.
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Postby Jojja » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:22 pm

Thoughts on Bow of Nylea in the aggressive variants? I was thinking of running 2-3 main, it's just a great plainswalker for an aggressive deck. It makes tokens, and mystics into actual damage in the mid-game and will help by gaining life in a race or just adding +1/+1 when squaring of in the mirror or against creatures of similar size.

Looking at your current list, that is very similar to what I'm looking at, adding Bows over Stokes will give you a lot of flexibility and if you want you can do some crazy stuff like attacking with Polly and then fighting 2-3 creatures with your DT before blockers. Or doing the same with a Charm and an attacking Elvish Mystic.

This is what I'm trying out for my Temur Tempo. Unsure about Cruse, but it might be really good for reloading after trading your mana dorks for actual creatures.

[deck]
Creature (24)

4x Boon Satyr
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fanatic of Xenagos
3x Heir of the Wilds
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Savage Knuckleblade
1x Stormbreath Dragon

Sorcery (4)

2x Crater's Claws
2x Treasure Cruise

Artifact (3)

3x Bow of Nylea

Instant (6)

4x Stubborn Denial
2x Temur Charm

Land (23)

5x Forest
2x Mana Confluence
1x Mountain
3x Shivan Reef
4x Temple of Abandon
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Yavimaya Coast

Sideboard (15)

3x Arc Lightning
3x Destructive Revelry
3x Disdainful Stroke
2x Hunt the Hunter
2x Reclamation Sage
2x Temur Charm

[/deck]

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Postby Toblakai » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:52 am

Seth Strader: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=75615

I'm now convinced in the advantages of Rattleclaw Mystic and Heir of the Wilds over Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix.

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Postby Toblakai » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:20 am

Temur deck tech with Anthony Lowry: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/cov ... with_.html

We also made three showings in a recent Grand Prix: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8418&d=248356&f=ST

@Jojja: Fanatic of Xenagos has never been what I wanted in my games. I would try another three-drop, or even Ashcloud Phoenixes, since your mana base can support it. Goblin Rabblemaster could be good, too, if you see lots of slower decks. At worst, it is going to draw removal that would otherwise target your bigger threats and give you more fodder for Delve.

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Postby Christen » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:52 am

After multiple top finishes in GP, this should be in the the competitive section, so moving it now.
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Postby Toblakai » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:29 am

Temur has fallen out of favor, it seems. Even Kibler has ditched the blue splash for a straight Red-Green approach. Now that we have Fate Reforged spoiled, I think he made the right decision. What follows is my take on RG Aggro Midrange Maybe, utilizing some of our new three drops.

[DECK=Gruul Midrange]
Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Heir of the Wild
4 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Xenagos
2 Yasova Dragonclaw
2 Boon Satyr
2 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Shaman of the Great Hunt
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells
4 Crater's Claws
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Lands
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Mana Confluence
4 Wooded Foothills
8 Mountain
6 Forest

Sideboard
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Arcbond
4 Barrage of Boulders
[/DECK]


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