Boss Sligh

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Postby Self Medicated » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:46 pm

Yeah, but 17 with 4 3-drops? C'mon.
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Postby Purp » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:34 pm

You don't need to play the three drop on turn 3 with this deck. Ive cast more stoke the flames on turn 3 than I have rabble.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:44 pm

When you play Boss Sligh, you basically alter your perception of reality. You decide that sweepers don't exist, Courser is a terrible card, and that you'll always draw 2 lands and be good to go.

None of this is remotely true, but it's the frame that you have to put yourself and your opponent in to be successful. If I'm on the play, I rarely play around anger of the gods if I have an aggressive enough draw.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Jasper » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:23 pm

That's how it goes. If they don't have the sweeper, they just flat out lose. It's going to take more than one Courser of Kruphix to stop Scrumper from attaining glory.

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Postby Self Medicated » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:29 pm

Alright, maybe I'll try out 17 land and see how it works. I mean, it obviously worked for Denis Ulanov.
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Postby Platypus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:29 pm

Since I'm most likely to run one of these decks at GP Stockholm next weekend, please tell me every good advice about running them you can spare. I've run several aggro decks before, but never any of the Boss Sligh low curve decks.

But how hard can it be? Tap Mountain, extend hand, right?
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Postby dauntless268 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:56 pm

To me, the strategy is to always win g1, die horribly to their boarded in mass removal g2 and have my opponent complain I just got lucky when I run him over on the play g3
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Postby LaZerBurn » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:15 pm

I'm currently here. I REALLY like the deck :)

[deck=LaZerBoss ]
Creatures (23)
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Satyr Hoplite
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Frenzied Goblin

Pumps (14)
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Hammerhand
4 Titan's Strength
2 Coordinated Assault

Burn (6)
3 Lightning Strike
3 Stoke the Flames

Lands (17)
17 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Lightning Strike
1 Stoke The Flames
2 Harness by Force
2 Scouring Sands
4 Searing Blood
1 Coordinated Assault
[/deck]
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:21 pm

The basic strat is go wide, and usually leave up 1 mana during attacks so they know you always have titan's strength.

The in depth strat is to tank for about 5 minutes every turn as you figure out how to maximize the value of your cards. Your best creature tends to fluctuate, but there generally akroan crusader, monastery swiftspear and frenzied goblin. Crusader enables all your other cards and gives you virtual CA, swiftspear is just huge, and frenzied goblin helps mitigate the affect that coursers have on the game.

I'd play 4 frenzied goblin FYI> I haven't played with satyr hoplite ever, either. If you care about the mirror, I'd play some number of 3 drops. Outburst, rabblemaster, and hall are all good.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:25 pm

best strat is to be better and quicker at combat maths than your opponent.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:41 pm

You actually don't need to be fast.

Best Boss Sligh pilots are actually the slowest players because you usually have 7ish relevant decisions to make every turn.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:50 pm

Yeah it was tongue in cheek.
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Postby Platypus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:00 pm

LP, of the Fires » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:21 pm wrote:The basic strat is go wide, and usually leave up 1 mana during attacks so they know you always have titan's strength.


So do you sandbag creatures at all, or just go all in?
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Postby Purp » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:02 pm

A little bit of both.
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Postby Self Medicated » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:22 pm

LP, of the Fires » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:21 pm wrote:If you care about the mirror, I'd play some number of 3 drops. Outburst, rabblemaster, and hall are all good.


Purp » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:36 pm wrote:Mardu with hordeling outburst instead of rabblemaster seems good.


I know I originally dismissed Outburst for Mardu, but now I'm wondering if this is the way to go for Red Aggro? Replace Rabblemaster with Outburst?
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Khaospawn » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:15 pm wrote:SM, you complete me. :love:

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Postby Purp » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 pm

That;s what ross did.

[deck]
Creatures (20)

4 Akroan Crusader
1 Arena Athlete
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Monastery Swiftspear
Lands (18)

18 Mountain
Spells (22)

4 Dragon Mantle
4 Hammerhand
1 Coordinated Assault
2 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Titan's Strength
1 Hall of Triumph
2 Hordeling Outburst
Sideboard

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Spray
4 Searing Blood
3 Peak Eruption
[/deck]
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Postby Self Medicated » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:27 pm

Right, and I agree with his reasons. I might be tempted to run 4 Outburst instead of only 2 though.
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Postby GoblinWarchief » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:27 am

I totally agree with LP, and i personally take a lot of time in the first 2-3 turns of the game when playing boss sligh.
The average opponent won't understand why ever you are thinking so much before tapping a mountain and playing a dude, and will just complain about your slow play and scrump deck.
The reality instead is that decks like this are a lot more skillful than things like abzan midrange in the very first turns of the game.... playing midrange, you usually have 2-3 alternatives each turn all game long, while playing boss sligh you have like 5 or more different lines of play fro turns 1-3, and after that your choices become pretty much straightforward. But playing perfectly the early game is really difficult and i am never sure if i did my best.... apart from proper sequencing, you have to think about your opponent's deck, the removal and creatures he plays and how do they matchup against the creatures you are going to play, if he has access to sweepers and/or lifegain, an other things. Make a wrong decision and you are probably dead because you play a bunch of shit with no really powerful card on its own.
I personally think that our best creature is akroan crusader. An issue i have with this particular version of boss sligh is that it plays relatively few creatures, and keeping a hand with only one creature (it happens) is risky as hell. If that creature is crusader though, all your pump spells/falters/cantrips turn into a body and you are good to go and run over any removal spell. Swiftspear is good to, but having a single huge body is worse than having a lot of tokens if you ask me.

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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:21 am

So, I'm thinking of dropping a Rabblemaster from the finalist deck in order to add a Hall of Triumph, and a second in the SB instead of the second Scouring Sands (I have only one...). The idea with Halls would be to get a slight edge in the mirror match, and the boost from it is relevant in other matches as well. I'm considering dropping the Coordinated Assault in the SB for a second Blinding Flare, seems to be a cheap way to push through the last points of damage. Wish I had room for some Hordeling Outburst (thought about a 2/2 split with Rabblemaster), but I like those Halls too much. But Outburst would be nice with Rabblemaster, Stoke, and FSD...

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Akroan Crusader
3 Frenzied Goblin
3 Goblin Rabblemaster

4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hammerhand
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike
2 Coordinated Assault
1 Hall of Triumph

17 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Searing Blood
2 Harness by Force
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Spray
1 Scouring Sands
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault
1 Blinding Flare
[/deck]

Edit: I could maybe go with a 1/2/1 split between Rabblemaster/Outburst/Hall?
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Postby Jojja » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:48 am

Platypus: I think I would play 18 lands and 2 Hall in the SB over Blinding Flare. The game 1 Hall is not really a big deal and I mostly play Hall against decks with small creatures or Drown in Sorrow.

If you go up to 18 lands I can see adding 1-2 Hordling Outburst to the deck, your really upping your average cmc in the main and the side so playing 18 lands is probably correct at that point. I'd drop 1 Dragon Mantle and/or 1 Coordinated Assault for the Outburst.

May I also ask where your from? I see your going to GP Stockholm, I'm based out of Gothenburg myself.

Anyway, best of luck during the weekend.

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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:59 am

To be honest, I'm a bit worried about running only 17 lands. This is based on the GP LA finalist deck that ran 4 Rabblemasters on 17 lands. But those don't always need to be played on curve, Outburst and esp. Hall you want on curve, so 18 land with them might be better.

I'm hoping to be able to play some test games on the boat (so I'm coming over from Finland), to be able to make a more educated build.

Good luck to you too! Look out for the guy in a red "Keep Calm and Lightning Bolt" t-shirt and a black Biffy Clyro hoodie... :)
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Postby Jojja » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:12 am

Sadly I'm working this weekend and cant make the GP, so I'm lending out my Jeskai and Abzan decks to my buddy's who are going. But best of luck to you in the GP, and please tell us how it went for you.

On the land situation. I always play 18 lands in my sligh decks if I have more then 4 cmc3 cards in my 75. Especially, as you said, when you have things that need to be on curve. And in my experience delaying your Rabblemaster to much of curve makes your Stoke the Flames so much worse since you loose a lot of tempo having to tap guys who should be attacking when stuck on 2 lands. Unless the things your tapping are Rabblemaster or tokens from him or the Outburst.

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Postby TheCleaner » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:24 pm

I updated the OP a bit and added some sample lists posted in the Thread. If you want me to add anything else (maybe you want to write a "how to play" guide?) feel free to tell me.
Click the spoiler if you dare to find out the truth

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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:52 pm

So this is the version I'm sleeving up for now, and I hope I can get a few test games done tomorrow.

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Akroan Crusader
3 Frenzied Goblin
2 Goblin Rabblemaster

4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hammerhand
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike
2 Hordeling Outburst
1 Coordinated Assault

18 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Searing Blood
2 Harness by Force
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Spray
1 Scouring Sands
2 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault
[/deck]
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Postby LaZerBurn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 pm

TheCleaner » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:24 pm wrote:I updated the OP a bit and added some sample lists posted in the Thread. If you want me to add anything else (maybe you want to write a "how to play" guide?) feel free to tell me.


thanks for the update :)
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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:44 pm

TheCleaner » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:24 pm wrote:I updated the OP a bit and added some sample lists posted in the Thread. If you want me to add anything else (maybe you want to write a "how to play" guide?) feel free to tell me.


You could maybe add those two Top 4 decks from GP LA as well?
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Postby locozildjiangodx » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:00 am

Hey this is the variant I've been playing with a lot of success on Cockatrice (which may mean nothing). Any suggestions before I play tomorrow night?

[deck]4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Stoke the Flames
4 Hammerhand
1 Hall of Triumph
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Frenzied Goblin
17 Mountain
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Coordinated Assault
3 Firedrinker Satyr
SB: 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
SB: 3 Searing Blood
SB: 2 Lightning Strike
SB: 2 Harness by Force
SB: 2 Blinding Flare
SB: 2 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

EDIT: How about a turn 4 swing for 23? http://i.imgur.com/ZuOT9cs.jpg
EDIT 2: BTW I am iffy on Scouring sands. I think it cleans up dorks pretty well, and is decent in the mirror, but I think something better can be put in it's place. Thoughts?

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Postby TheCleaner » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:58 pm

Found this in Sallys Sligh Thread:

Here's the real key to sligh, and how you the deck can really push games out. Play fast. Really fast. Practice playing fast.
Drop your 1 drops, turn em sideways, pass turn. The less time you give your opponent to think, the more pressure you put on them and the more likely they will slip up. Kind of like quick play breaks in football or speed playing in chess. By keeping the pressure constant, your opponent can't breath and starts to slip up, make awkward plays, and maybe even outright misplay.
Sligh is really good at this.


He has good arguments. If it works out and your Opponent doesn't take his time.


Added the GP LA Top4 lists to the OP.
Last edited by TheCleaner on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Christen » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:48 pm

It is applicable in most opponents. You have to learn to not be taken by the opponent's pace.
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Postby Platypus » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:13 pm

GP Stockholm Top 8:

GP Stockholm Top 8
[deck]3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Hammerhand
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Titan's Strength
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Lightning Strike
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

18 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Lightning Strike
3 Harness by Force
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Searing Blood
3 Magma Spray
[/deck]


GP Stockholm Top 16:

GP Stockholm Top 16
[deck]18 Mountain

4 Akroan Crusader
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Coordinated Assault
3 Dragon Mantle
2 Hordeling Outburst
4 Hammerhand
4 Titan's Strength

Sideboard
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Searing Blood
2 Scouring Sands
2 Magma Spray
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Harness by Force
[/deck]


My own experiences from the GP will come later. I can however tell right away that I finished with a disappointing 4-5 record...
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Postby Platypus » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:14 pm

Should this thread be moved to the competitive section?
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Postby TheCleaner » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Maybe its should be merged with the MonoR Scrumper thread :confused: :sneaky: :shrug:
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Postby Platypus » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:25 pm

I don't know, that thread started out about Khaospawn's mono red deck that was quite different from these Boss Sligh decks. They somehow got posted there as well, because cheap mono red aggro decks are in fact somewhat scrumpy. But then they started putting up serious results.
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Postby Christen » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:25 am

I'd say it would be good to post in the competitive section but maybe it needs a decent primer? Just a summary of the deck and how it works should be good I guess. Almost all of us here are red mages.
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Postby Jasper » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:35 am

Just take this primer:

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=602

and update it.

Shit, if you're lazy, just move that whole thread back where it belongs. Too much useful information for it to just be rotting in the archive.

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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:02 am

I can probably write down something as a start.

That RDW thread should maybe be put in the Strategy and Theory section, and just linked to from any RDW and similar deck thread in the future. So much good and general advice in there.
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Postby Platypus » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:14 pm

So, my own experiences from GP Stockholm...

This was my first GP ever, and probably only one for a long while since I don't want to spend that much money going to GPs abroad. I managed to do some test playing on the boat over to Stockholm, but that was mostly against Green Devotion (felt really hard to win that) and some Abzan aggro version (felt like 50-50 something). Would have been nice to be able to get some more experience with the deck against other decks as well but I didn't have time to do it.

This is what I decided on after the very limited testing:

[deck]4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Akroan Crusader
3 Frenzied Goblin
1 Arena Athlete

4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hammerhand
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike
2 Hordeling Outburst
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault

18 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Searing Blood
2 Harness by Force
2 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Spray
1 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

My games:

R1: GR(Temur?) Monsters. Won this easily despite giving the opponent a free shock by sequencing my plays wrong (played Eidolon before Akroan Crusader in the second game). Won 2-0. Good start!

R2: Some kind of Sultai deck (not Sidisi Whip). First game I won easily. In the second I had to mulligan two no-landers, followed by a weak five-card hand. In the third I got a nut draw: Akroan Crusader, into Swiftspear + Titan's Strength on the Crusader, attack for 6. Opponent: You mean 7, right? Me: What? Crusader has 4 power and Swiftspear 2. Opponent: Yes and the token has Haste. I stare at Akroan Crusader in disbelief...well I'll be damned...the tokens have Haste. I need to learn to read cards and Crusader is even more nuts than I first thought. And Swedes are really nice guys. Won 2-1. The deck start to feel like the real deal.

R3: Jeskai Tempo of some sort. I won the first game without much problems, starting to feel really confident about this deck. But after sideboarding it got a lot tougher. Lost to some Prognostic Sphinxes in game 3, and I just learned today that the Sphinx taps when given hexproof. As I said, I need to learn to read cards. I could maybe have won by just using Falter effects on it and attacked, but now I held back too long in order to get it removed by Titan's Strengthing an attacker. Lost 1-2, maybe to stupid mistakes. It didn't help that the opponent played mostly with non-English cards either.

R4: Mardu Midrange. Got him down to 4 in the first game but couldn't find anything to finish him with. In the second game I got him down to 1, but died on the swingback due to not taking into account Lightning Strike from him in response to me Lightning Striking him (instead of his Seeker of the Way). Lost 0-2, maybe to mistakes again. Although Mardu Midrange felt like a really tough matchup.

R5: Boss Sligh. I lost the first game (on the draw) to basically a nutdraw. Played really well in game 2 and 3. Here I must say I really felt like I've learned something from my time with all of you guys. I took on the controlling role in game 2 and 3, and it just felt like I couldn't lose. He kept Firedrinker Satyrs in after sideboarding and stuff like that. Won 2-1

R6: Abzan Midrange. Urgh, I hate this deck. Got him down to 5, then he stabilizes. Rhinos, Sorin...and the same thing in game 2. Lost 0-2

R7: Abzan Midrange. Groan...another one. But it turned out that the player wasn't so familiar with the deck, felt like that at least. Won easily 2-0.

R8: Mardu Midrange. Another Mardu Midrange, didn't stand a chance in this one. Lost 0-2

R9: GR Monsters. Won game 1 quickly, got him down to 5 in game 2 before he stabilizes with Nylea's Disciples and wins. In game 3 the deck decided it had enough for the day and gives me the worst land flood I've seen in a long while. Lost 1-2.

End result 4-5. Not happy with that at all. Mostly due to play mistakes and too little play experience both with the deck and playing against some of the other decks (mostly Mardu Midrange and Jeskai Tempo).

Arena Athlete felt weak, I would rather have had a fourth Frenzied Goblin or a third Hordeling Outburst instead. A second Hall of Triumph instead of the Scouring Sands would have been nice as well. Didn't do much with the Harnesses either, but I'm not sure I want to drop them yet.

Mardu Midrange feels like maybe the worst matchup. Tom Ross had Peak Eruptions in the sideboard against them, maybe that isn't such a bad idea after all. Delays Butcher, Sarkhan etc while doing damage. Might help in the Jeskai matchup as well. Another card I thought about against Mardu is Phyrexian Revoker. Shuts down Butcher (the lifelink is the killer) and planeswalkers.

Anyway, despite the lousy result it was a good experience.
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Platypus
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Postby Platypus » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:34 pm

This got posted today:

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12168

It's not very informative, doesn't really give any new information. The feeling I got from reading it is basically: "I don't understand how these low curve decks can win anything." He's right about Green Devotion being a beating though.
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Christen
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Postby Christen » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:08 am

He has a point about the 17-18 lands thing, but that's just how this deck works.
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Postby Platypus » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:46 am

Yes, when playing this deck you just have to accept that you don't always have two lands on turn two. It works because you are willing to take that risk.
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