Dies to Removal

So my friends have a pretty wide array of EDH decks they love to play more than standard. I'd say the group is about 6 people (only 2 of us grind standard) and I got tired of playing one of their edh decks so I began to create my own.

Hoping some more experienced players of EDH can help refine it to becoming a better multiplayer deck. I do very well in 1v1 but I notice counters aren't too good in MP. I play Nin because I like the idea of just controlling a game until my card advantage is so great that I can then win. I think I am searching for more consistent combos/win cons so any input would be great.

First I will start with the deck I am at now:

[deck]
Commander
1 Nin, Pain Artist

Creatures: 13
1 Trinket Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Psycosis Crawler
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Giant Oyster
1 Brine Elemental
1
Labratory Maniac
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Phryxian Metamorph
1 Solemn Simalacum
1 Vesuvian Shapeshifter
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Archaeomancer

Instants: 19
1 Spin into Myth
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Miscalculation
1 Boomerang
1 Condescend
1 Rewind
1 Into the Roil
1 Twincast
1 Daze
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Brand
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Forbid
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Leak
1 Steam Augury
1 Fire//Ice
1 Mystical Tutor

Sorceries: 7
1 Thieves' Auction
1 Preordain
1 Treachery
1 Long Term Plans
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Ponder
1 Vandalblast

Artifacts: 19
1 Mind Stone
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Emperyrial Plate
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Swiftfeet Boots
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Vedalken Shadows (love this card but it draws a lot of hate)
1 Mana Vault
1 Izzet Cluestone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Armillary Sphere
1
Thran Dynamo

Enchantments: 8
1 Honden of Seeing Wings
1 Reprecussion
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Training Grounds
1 Future Sight
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Psychic Surgery (mostly here for Troll purposes)
1 Memory Erosion(Troll card)


Lands: 34
14 Island
6 Mountain
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Crystal Vein
1 Command Tower
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rupture Spirit
1 Halimar Depths
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Steam Vents
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Lonely Sandbar[/deck]

I also currently have these cards at my disposal:

[deck]
1 Dead//Gone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wild Guess
1 Order of Succesion
1 Negate
1 Expedition Map
1 Peek
1 Mental Mishap
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Prohibit
1 Repeal
1 Cancel
1 Ruination
1 Courier's Capsule
1 Flame Slash
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Annul
1 Spell Snare
1 Dissolve
1 Force Spike
1 Spell Pierce
1 Jushi, Apprentice
1 Curiosity
1 Fatestitcher
1
Rapid Hybridization
[/deck]

I know I could use the fetches, wastelands and stripmine and such. At first glance, does anyone see any immediate cuts or replacements from my current card pool?

I will be buying monoliths and such soon.

Basically looking for any advice would be great. Sometimes I feel like I can take over a game, but won't have a way to win.


Generals in the playgroup: Chromaticore (planeswalker deck), Zirilan, Derivi, Sissay, Oona, New EDH COmmander Dragon guy, Riku, Melek, Khalia and some others I can't think of.

The deck tags are not the best.
Put a number before the card names and put the [/DECK] tag on its own line.

[deck]
Commander
1 Nin, Pain Artist

Creatures: 13
1 Trinket Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Psycosis Crawler
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Giant Oyster
1 Brine Elemental
1 Labratory Maniac
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Phryxian Metamorph
1 Solemn Simalacum
1 Vesuvian Shapeshifter
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Archaeomancer

Instants: 19
1 Spin into Myth
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Miscalculation
1 Boomerang
1 Condescend
1 Rewind
1 Into the Roil
1 Twincast
1 Daze
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Brand
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Forbid
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Leak
1 Steam Augury
1 Fire//Ice
1 Mystical Tutor


Sorceries: 7
1 Thieves' Auction
1 Preordain
1 Treachery
1 Long Term Plans
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Ponder
1 Vandalblast

Artifacts: 19
1 Mind Stone
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Emperyrial Plate
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Swiftfeet Boots
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Vedalken Shadows (love this card but it draws a lot of hate)
1 Mana Vault
1 Izzet Cluestone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo

Enchantments: 8
1 Honden of Seeing Wings
1 Reprecussion
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Training Grounds
1 Future Sight
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Psychic Surgery (mostly here for Troll purposes)
1 Memory Erosion(Troll card)


Lands: 34
14 Island
6 Mountain
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Crystal Vein
1 Command Tower
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rupture Spirit
1 Halimar Depths
1
Desolate Lighthouse
1 Steam Vents
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Lonely Sandbar
[/deck]

I also currently have these cards at my disposal:

[deck]
1 Dead//Gone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wild Guess
1 Order of Succesion
1 Negate
1 Expedition Map
1 Peek
1 Mental Mishap
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Prohibit
1 Repeal
1 Cancel
1 Ruination
1 Courier's Capsule
1 Flame Slash
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Annul
1 Spell Snare
1 Dissolve
1 Force Spike
1 Spell Pierce
1 Jushi, Apprentice
1 Curiosity
1 Fatestitcher
1 Rapid Hybridization
[/deck]

Fixed it. Thanks Red

There's a couple other iterations of Nin already posted on the site that I'd recommend:

http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=691

http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.p ... 355#p51355

The best finishers available to the deck are probably Bribery, Godo Bandit Warlord/Argentum Armor, Insurrection, Memnarch, and Lightning Greaves plus Eldrazi/Blightsteel Colossus. Even Pathrazer of Ulamong/Artisan of Kozile are fairly reasonable options, if you're ramping hard enough.

In my own meta, kicked Rite of Replication isn't really that good anymore as it's too reactive of a win condition, but it's definitely worth considering. Blatant Thievery is probably in the same category.

I'd bump up to
at least 38 lands, for sure, and cram in as many two-mana or more ramp spells as you can (Worn Powerstone, Palladium Myr, Apprentice Wizard, even). Thada Adel probably counts too.

Ruination/Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon/Back to Basics are ridiculously good. A manabase of pure basics might actually be consistent enough, since you're a two-color deck. If you have any fetches though, that's obviously a better way to go.

I'd say don't discount the power of countermagic in Nin too quickly. The deck *loves* to hold mana open, more than just about any other general. Especially if you can build the deck to reward that with some nice bonus effects a la Desertion. EDIT: See also Spelljack and Overwhelming Intellect.

Still looking at the list, but I'd probably take Mana Leak out since EDH is so mana heavy, I tend to not like spells that can be overturned by my opponent paying.

I'll add more as I continue looking, but I think Az hit a lot of it on the head.

Also, wanted to ask; how competitive is your play group? I'm asking because it'll change some card suggestions.

Very competitive. Meaning we all want to win. Seems like a vague question. I'm willing to get the cards I need to in order to win

Well EDH players kind of fit into different groups. You have the cut throats, the casuals and the delicate mixes. If you're cut throat you're going to want different cards then the other two. Omniscience comes to mind.

I want to win every game. Cut throat my nigga

I think Khaos turned his into a much more cutthroat version since he made the primer. You should check back there.

Thanks for the references, Azrael and Freedom.

@freedom - yeah, I'm back to the cutthroat version again. I'd forgotten how much I loved the "combo" feel of drawing a million cards in a turn and then wiping out the entire table.

@Purp - I'd try to focus the deck a bit more. Nin is actually more of a "tap-out" deck. If it ever leaves mana open, it's to be able to pull off a big "Mind Spring" to draw a bunch of cards. I personally only ever want to play with one counterspell, the best one for this deck in my opinion, Forbid. It can be tutored up with Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, or Drift of Phantasms. Once you have it, you'll pretty much have it the entire game. Remember, the only things you have to worry about countering are the
spells that are going to outright kill you on the spot or any spells that will disrupt you on your big turn.

Seems a bit broadly worded. Nin can be built as a tap-out deck - any deck can be built as tap-out deck if you really want to go that way.

But what other general offers you the chance to draw a bazillion cards every turn you leave the majority of your mana open? There's definitely some incentives to create a build that doesn't mind leaving its mana open every single turn.

Won a 4 player game the other night by eventually having 3 yr Elixir, Nivmizzet and Curiosity.

Had a sick play where one my buddies Overload Vandalast. I had 8 mana. I went Snapcaster, targeting Twincast that was in my GY, targeted his Vandalblast, while that was on the stack I cast Rewind on his. Protected my shit and everyone elses died. It felt good.

Probably make some changes later and post up list tonight.

I love when shit like that works out. Feels good, man.

[deck]
Commander
1 Nin, The Pain Artist

Creatures: 13
1 Trinket Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Giant Oyster
1 Brine Elemental
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Archaeomancer

Instants: 19
1 Spin into Myth
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Miscalculation
1 Boomerang
1 Condescend
1 Rewind
1 Into the Roil
1 Twincast
1 Daze
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Brand
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Forbid
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Leak
1 Steam Augury
1 Fire//Ice
1 Mystical Tutor

Sorceries: 7
1 Thieves' Auction
1
Preordain
1 Treachery
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Ponder
1 Vandalblast

Artifacts: 19
1 Mind Stone
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Vedalken Shackles (love this card but it draws a lot of hate)
1 Mana Vault
1 Izzet Cluestone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo

Enchantments: 8
1 Honden of Seeing Winds
1 Repercussion
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Training Grounds
1 Future Sight
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Psychic Surgery (mostly here for Troll purposes)
1 Memory Erosion (Troll card)


Lands: 34
14 Island
6 Mountain
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Crystal Vein
1 Command Tower
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rupture Spire
1 Halimar Depths
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Steam Vents
1 Vivid Creek
1
Vivid Crag
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Lonely Sandbar[/deck]

I went OCD on your list. The failed image loads on hover were bothering me.

Hah thanks man.

A lot of the troll enchantments are out. Currently debating on cutting Repercussion. My play group allows gold borders, since its just us who play against each other, trying to find a cheap Gold Border Force of Will

Went 3-0 in 4man multiplayer pods.

R1: Won by getting it down to a 1v1. Opponent conceded after I went Time Warp Into Time Stretch into Ral Zarek ult.

R2: Won with niv mizzet/curiosity

R3: Won with Blasphemous Act and Viciious Shadows combo.