[PRIMER] UB Control

Pauper and pauper variants. (Villager, Peasant, etc.)

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[PRIMER] UB Control

Postby zemanjaski » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:12 pm

[deck]UB Control Test Version 1.0 - Too Many Kill Conditions[/deck]

Creatures
Ha!

Kill Conditions
2 Curse of the Bloody Tome

Instants
4 Counterspell
4 Deprive
4 Essence Scatter
2 Exclude
1 Oona's Grace
2 Repeal
2 Rewind
4 Think Twice

Sorceries
4 Innocent Blood
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

Lands
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Quicksand

10 Island
1 Swamp
[/deck]

Notes:
- mana base is still a WIP. Might experiment with +1 Terramorphic. I think 10 Black sources is plenty for such a light splash; but the fetch lands are actually nice for deck thinning late and play well with Ponder. Might not quite have enough coloured sources either, probably want 19 blue (this has 18; you have to grab 1 black, after that all blue). So -1
Quicksand, +1 Island or +1 fetch is possible.
- perhaps +1 Oona's Grace, -1 Ponder? Oona's Grace is such a powerful draw engine going late, but with Ponder and Preordain you'll have a lot of filtering.
- Brainstorm over Ponder? Might be getting too cute though; and without a fetch it is terrible. I can't run more than 5-6 fetches whereas in legacy you'll typically have 8-9.

1. How the idea came together
- Delver MUC
- MUC
- Problems with both archetypes

2. How this deck wins and strategic advice
- What to counter in each matchup
- How to play draw spells
- Locking your opponent out of the game (inevitability)

3. Key cards And Excludes
- Preordain
- Innocent Blood
- Counter suite (counterspell, deprive, essence scatter, exclude, rewind)
- Draw suite (think twice, oona's grace)
- Repeal (or Into the Roil)

- Mana Leak: Amazing card that I would want to play, except that the games go too long and it ends up being dead too often.
- Prohibit: This card is awful when two of the most
popular decks are Affinity and MBC and their best creatures cost 3+. Awful.

4. Matchup guide
- affinity
- Boroskitty
- faeries
- MUC
- MBC
- Stompy
- Elves
- Kilnclops
- white weenie
- burn

5. Sideboarding
- Crypt Incursion
- Duress
- Doom Blade
- Shrivel / Serrated Arrows
- Nihil Spellbomb
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Postby Mcdonalds » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:51 am

It's durdles the deck

You have my attention

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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:53 am

I've been playing MUC all week that sideboards into the Mono U version of this with a 72% winrate. Innocent Blood and a couple of black sideboard cards solve that archetypes problems. This deck is fucking insane.
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Postby hamfactorial » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:55 am

Will build and test, too. Who knew Pauper was such a fun format?

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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:58 am

It got a lot better after they banned all the degenerate BS.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:02 am

Glad you cut the delvers. I didn't comment on the deck I don't think, but I was like "if he's playing control, mill win con seems better then creature that dies to removal"

Did the trinket mage sideboard plan make the cut? I rarely check these boards...
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:07 am

I haven't found that I have needed it. The only targets I would play are Nihil Spellbomb and Executioner's Capsule; but those sort of ultra slow 2-for-1s aren't that exciting in such a fast format. They also give your opponent small value for otherwise dead removal.

You see so much filtering anyway; Nihil Spellbomb is for GY combo decks (which you also have Crypt Incursion for, only need to find 1); you don't need than 4 removal IMO. The MUC version only lost when they snuck 1-2 guys under countermagic early (usually when you were on the draw), so 1 mana edict solves that; fixed the hexproof matchup (otherwise terrible) and helps a lot vs. affinity and MUC semi-mirrors (turn 1 delver was a nightmare)
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:08 am

Interested in your thoughts on the 60 LP; do they seem logical? Any insight on my notes under the list greatly appreciated.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:22 am

18 blue should be enough. With all the draw you have, you should be able to find the 3rd island in a reasonable amount of time. If you want another oona's grace, just play a mystical teachings. That's like, the perfect 1-of in this deck. Finds everything you could want except Curse. -1 rewind, +1 Mystical maybe.

If you add a fetch and a Mystical, brainstorm gets a lot more appealing as you go from 5 to 7 1/2 shuffle affects.(flashback probably doesn't count as an entire shuffle affect). I actually am kind of liking the idea of 3/1 Brainstorm/ponder. Remember, ponder's also a shuffle affect.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:27 am

I might need 24 land. I played 22 in MUC and that sometimes felt like 1 too few (hence 23 here); but with fetches taking lands out of the deck, maybe I need 24...still, I play 23 in legacy and that's fine (and that has more fetches).

I don't hate Mystical Teachings at all. I originally wanted Forbidden Alchemy, but the risk of need to dump a Tome was unattractive; sometimes you need both. Teachings avoids that issue nicely and is a long term 2-for-1 which is fine.

I'll test -1 Ponder;
+1 Teachings or +1 Land;

Deck is sick though.
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:27 am

Even 1-3 Brainstorm to play late is very nice; you'll naturally draw into more fetches late and can brainstorm then.
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:28 am

Ponder is better early though, and you've already got a more robust late game than any deck in the format, not close.
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:28 am

Is there anything that transmutes for Curse?
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:42 am

Yes. Counter target instant spell. Muddle the mixture. Typed all that to figure out what it was lol.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:42 am

It actually counters target instant or sorcery. And you can tutor it with teaching in a very roundabout way.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:52 am

curse costs 3? DAGGERS.

Murming phantasm. Or something like that. 0/5 defender transmute, Ravnica, City of Guilds.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:54 am

Brainstorm is in. I played 1 Amass the Components as a way to get rid of dead cards late; with shuffle Brainstorm does the same thing for 1 mana.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:55 am

PERPLEX! It's a bad counterspell, but it's got transmute.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:59 am

Its quite different, Affinity, Stompy and Delver seem like a challenge - good luck with development.
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:06 am

I was with MUC
50:50 vs Affinity. Black removal is a huge improvement here. All their draw is irrelevant, you just need to counter / kill the 12 relevant creatures. I think this would now improve to 60:40. Maybe better; they run only Pyroblast that's relevant and you've got Black removal anyway.

55:45 vs. the mirror with losses most coming to being out tempoed. Black cards are big here; especially Nihil Spellbomb post board (Oona's Grace is one of the most important cards; I ran two copies in my MUC for this reason, even if the second was blank).

Stompy and Goblins will still be bad. At least now Auras and Kilnclops are very good.
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:10 am

PERPLEX! It's a bad counterspell, but it's got transmute.
I think Brainstorm and Preordain late will be sufficient tbh.

3 Brainstorm, +1 fetch or 4 Brainstorm? I like the 4 Brainstorm. I play 23 land with 8 fetches in legacy and that feels fine. We might want the 6th fetch (-1 island)?
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:13 am

Ahhh, I only seen the MD with 7 'trap' removal and 2 bounces - the decks goal seems to be to 1-4-1 counter every-turn but that hard to do vs fast aggro (esp. on the draw).

Post board you must have a number of removals/sweepers to combat this weakness. (it does seems like a good deck well positioned against the top tiered)
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Postby zemanjaski » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:16 am

Returned Phalanx is a common.

GG.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:04 am

Now testing, notes later this week.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:15 am

4-1 in testing:

2-0 vs White Weenie
2-0 vs Boros Aggro
1-2 vs GW Slivers (had to draw terribly in game 2 and 3 to lose, like bottom 5% of my draws; didn't see any spot removal in 22 cards etc)
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs Twisted Memories combo

SB is currently:
1 Crypt Incursion
4 Doom Blade
4 Hydroblast
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Serrated Arrows
2 Shrivel

Oona's Grace was the worst card in the deck and I can see cutting it for another fetch or basic. The Brainstorm + fetch combo is already an enormous endgame and after turn 5+ in any game (except the slivers, where I couldn't find anything to save my life) I had the games won.

More testing / notes to come.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:51 am

Hydroblast doesn't seem great. It's good vs Kilnclops (already very favourable) and Mono R (not going to win vs. burn anyway) so it can probably be something else. Returned Phalanx?
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Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:35 am

I know little about pauper but Returned Phalanx seems like a great card to run in your deck. With all the late game you have it may as well be a Creeping Tar Pit that doesn't tap for mana and doubles as an early game blocker vs aggro.
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Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:38 am

I wish there was some kind of mana sink you could put in the deck though. I imagine that's what you had Oona's Grace for. Certainly there's a better option.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:01 am

Honestly I was surprised how good Brainstorm plus fetch was in pauper. Oona's Grace is the best I've found; you get to 6-7 land then convert everything after that into gas. As a 1-of it's ok, I probably just need more games that go long (MUC and MBC).
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Postby DarthStabber » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:53 am

You could run [card]Jace's erasure[/card] over cotbt, it's only 2 mana as opposed to 3, meaning you can run muddle the mixture to tutor it. It mills for each card you draw, which makes it slightly less reliable but with enough card draw you can balance it out, maybe even tip it to be more effective.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:19 am

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting. I am afraid of milling myself with that! You would need two in play to generate a kill safely; whereas CotBT can kill with just a single copy....will test; love the rec + works with Muddle which is awesome. Arrigato!
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Postby DarthStabber » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:41 am

I brought it up because almost every pauper turbofog uses it, and they use a lot of draw spells like this does to accelerate the kill, and grab more fogs.
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 am

1-2 vs MUC
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs UB Trinket Control
2-0 vs MBC
1-2 vs RB Tortured Existence
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:34 am

2-0 vs Auras

Dat Innocent Blood induced ragequit.

Who maindecks innocent blood? This moi.
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Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:36 pm

I have an unhealthy love for Innocent Blood. I wish it were Modern legal!
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:14 pm

It makes my legacy deck playable tbh.
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4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

Jack
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Postby Jack » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:11 pm

I finally got to try this deck. It is nasty.
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Jack
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Postby Jack » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:17 pm

I do think that a spell that could transmute for our win con could be very useful. Now, I don't play control often (pretty much never before this, actually), but is it typical to have a high number of mainboard creature answers with a sideboard that is also mostly made of answers to creature decks? Are we already so good against control that we can afford to play a few dead spells, or are low-creature decks like this one just really uncommon in the format?
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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:38 pm

Control decks are a bye; hence the overload on anti-creature stuff post board.
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1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

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zemanjaski
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Postby zemanjaski » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:48 pm

Updated decklist:

[deck]Too Many Win Conditions v1.1[/deck]
Win Conditions
2 Curse of the Bloody Tome

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Deprive
4 Essence Scatter
2 Exclude
1 Oona's Grace
2 Repeal
2 Rewind
4 Think Twice

Sorceries
4 Innocent Blood
4 Preordain

Lands
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Quicksand

8 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Returned Phalanx
2 Serrated Arrows
2 Shrivel
[/deck]

Just a bit more tuning. Oona's Grace could still be an Island.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name


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