[Primer] U/R Storm

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Postby Platypus » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:12 am

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:51 am

LP, of the Fires » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:56 pm wrote:Maindecking bolt doesn't vibe with me as it's not a win-con, nor a cantrip.

Actually it is. :)

I didn't mean to sound argumentative or defensive in the Clan thread in regards Finkel's deck. On paper, the deck looks like a work of art. However, I played it enough to know that it doesn't suit the way I would like to play Storm. Much of what I've talked about here in this primer (and thread) was echoed in Shrout's article, which means that I'm not the only one to prefer a different style and disagree with Finkel.

I recommend to everyone: play both kind of Storm decks. Figure out what you like and how you like to play Storm. There's no wrong way
to do this, apparently. Each version has a very strong chance at success until people start packing in extra Rule of Laws, Counterflux, and even Mindbreak Trap.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:55 am

Also, I put Finkel's, Shrout's, and Budde's articles in the primer last night. Though, admittedly, Budde's isn't nearly as informative since it reads as an overall tournament report, but he does go into detail of some of his Storm games, both good and bad.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:20 am

Good shit.

How do you think the two versions differ in matchups? From finkels list which is the one I play:

Affinity: Idk, I think slightly favorable. Don't have a bunch of games in but affinity was drawing like shit and I was crushing. Completely flipped from the other day when affinity and small zoo where the only decks fast enough to goldfish.

Small Zoo: :frown:

Medium/Big Zoo: evenish. Scooze+fast clock is bothersome, but loxodon smiter basically timewalks them if played on three since it doesn't kill electromancer

Jund/Obliterock: LOLOLfavorable Not being able to rely on Ascenscion because of abrupt decay is annoying, but Jund plays a long game without the fastest clock and being a graveyard deck, that's basically just free draw steps. Plus I play desperate ravings. To quote zem "flippin lol" Postboard is
harder since they have dedicated gy hate in addition to scooze, but it's not that bad. We're still redundant enough to power through thoughtseize.

Twin: Haven't tested yet :/

UWR: Fairly even. If you resolve an early ascension and they have no pressure, they can't win ever as you quickly blank there counters. If they have some spell snares and a snapcaster, hold your butts kids, it's gonna be a rough ride. Ravings and thoughtscour shine particularly in this matchup.

Vs. other linear combo: Favorable as we're the fastest combo deck. Infect MIGHT be faster.

Melira Pod: very favorable game 1. That infinite combo takes setup. If they play resto, it can get tricky since they can resto/sin collector for value. However, that's a value you, not an I'm killing you play. Postboard, they actually have a decent gambit of disruptive spells to go with there clock making things hairier.

Big takeaway is this deck is
VERY resilient to disruption, so much so that I've found decks to generally have a better time racing. The grindy decks with the best chances of winning are UWR with snapcasters and spell snares, and Jund post board since they have infinite relevant disruption.

I'd guess that the shrout version from the article at least has a higher turn 3 kill rate since you can potentially have more control over the many cards you see with looting giving your more choices then scour/ravings. 3 lavamancers is just criminal though :no2:
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Platypus » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:39 am

Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:51 am wrote:I recommend to everyone: play both kind of Storm decks. Figure out what you like and how you like to play Storm. There's no wrong way to do this, apparently. Each version has a very strong chance at success until people start packing in extra Rule of Laws, Counterflux, and even Mindbreak Trap.


I think this is the important part, both versions are good but appeal to different playstyles.

GP Richmond is going to be interesting. The deck is out there, it's a known threat. It's going to be interesting to see how much hate there will be, and how the versions fare against it. I guess sideboards have to take hate in account.
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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:02 pm

One thing I agree with Finkel is about the Electromancer. Play 4. I tried 3 and it's a big difference.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Valdarith » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:35 pm

It's the best ritual in the deck. I have no idea why anyone would want to play less than four.
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Postby TubeHunter » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:13 pm

I want to play storm, but tarns and mistys are pushing 100, so fuck that.
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Postby Valdarith » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:26 pm

It's bad when blue Zendikar fetches are commading twice as much as most Legacy duals. :p
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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:24 pm

It's a good thing I had all mine from starting competitive play when Zen dropped.

/bragpost.

Actually, that's not entirely true. I had to pick up a couple Misty Rainforests about a month ago. I spent close to $50 per, and I've been told they've jumped up +$10 since. That's fucking goddamn ridiculous.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:26 pm

Valdarith » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:35 am wrote:It's the best ritual in the deck. I have no idea why anyone would want to play less than four.

Shrout, Fennell, and a few others were trying to make room for the 2 Bolts at the expense of the Goblin. Personally, I just cut a land. 17 has been my sweet spot for awhile with this deck.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:08 pm

LP, of the Fires » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:20 am wrote:Good shit.

How do you think the two versions differ in matchups? From finkels list which is the one I play:

Affinity: Idk, I think slightly favorable. Don't have a bunch of games in but affinity was drawing like shit and I was crushing. Completely flipped from the other day when affinity and small zoo where the only decks fast enough to goldfish.

Small Zoo: :frown:

I've only had the opportunity to play against Affinity 3 times and lil' Zoo twice since I play (at this point) only paper MTG. I'm 2-1 against Affinity, but I really feel like we're slightly over a coinflip. I actually barely won the last match I played
against it and it was because of an early Looting draw that enabled me to combo out with no help whatsoever. Against lil' Zoo, I'm 1-1. I brought Storm to a Monday Night Modern as soon as the unbanning happened (somehow I just knew the deck was poised to take over XD). I was quickly dismantled by a Tribal Flames Zoo deck. :rofl: However, a positive from that experience was that it got the wheels turning in my head to begin thinking about adding Lightning Bolt to the main (seeing Fennell's list later justified my thought process :yes: ). Later, during the same tournament, I played Zoo again in Round 4 and I was a lot more conservative with my life total this time around (more so than against Affinity). I went 2-1 to take the match.
[/b:
198alf92]

Medium/Big Zoo: evenish. Scooze+fast clock is bothersome, but loxodon smiter basically timewalks them if played on three since it doesn't kill electromancer

Jund/Obliterock: LOLOLfavorable Not being able to rely on Ascenscion because of abrupt decay is annoying, but Jund plays a long game without the fastest clock and being a graveyard deck, that's basically just free draw steps. Plus I play desperate ravings. To quote zem "flippin lol" Postboard is harder since they have dedicated gy hate in addition to scooze, but it's not that bad. We're still redundant enough to power through thoughtseize.

Twin: Haven't tested yet :/

I haven't played against Obliterock or Twin yet (It seems like the only time I happen to face Twin is when I bring my Burn or Goblin deck :/ ). Jund
was pretty much all I played the deck against for the last year. Truth be told, I built Storm over a year ago because my buddies getting into Modern always whined about how I was only into Burn or RDW and they went on tilt really easily if things went my way for too long. 3 out of the 4 guys that regularly came over ALL decided to build Jund and/or Junk at the same time. At some point, the testing became stale and I promised them I'd branch out and explore some cheap alternatives. This came at a good time as well because Burn was quickly becoming worse and worse, so I built Goblins, Mono Green Infect, Merfolk, and Storm roughly around the time that Seething Song got banned (what few cards I didn't have suddenly became very cheap in the wake of the bannings). So I played Storm against them when I got tired of turning dudes sideways. A lot. I learned a lot from it too. Back then, I maindecked an Empty the Warrens to help pressure a Lilly, chump block '
goyfs, it usually got ignored by a Thoughtsieze most of the time (and IoK couldn't hit it.) That was also a time that I maindecked 2 Magma Jets to help me dig, kill a DRS (the worst card to see early on), or to take care of a Lilly after she made me sac my Electromancer. I always felt that last season's Jund, towards the end, was somewhat favorable for me. Now, Jund has disappeared pretty much from my meta since nobody can play with their favorite Elf Shaman. Once I felt that I had a good grasp on the match up, I eventually cut the Jets, and that was when I went on to the Looting plan. I haven't looked back since.


UWR: Fairly even. If you resolve an early ascension and they have no pressure, they can't win ever as you quickly blank there counters. If they have some spell snares and a snapcaster, hold your butts kids, it's gonna be a rough ride. Ravings and thoughtscour shine particularly in this matchup.

Pretty much my assessment
also. I don't know if Ravings and Thought Scour make the match up any "better," per se, since I've actually grown accustomed to going "fuck it" when I can't have a Goblin or Ascension stick, and just go for broke. If I can time the turn right, I'll just go off and get there by the seat of my pants, but I think I may owe that to Looting. I dunno. We could both be right.


Vs. other linear combo: Favorable as we're the fastest combo deck. Infect MIGHT be faster.

I played Burn so much that I drove Infect out of my metagame. In fact, I may be the only one in Pinellas County that actually has an Infect deck (Mono Green AND B/g XD ) still built. Infect is a deck that can actually win on Turn 2, so I might just give it to them. But then, a well timed Lightning Bolt can turn things around. I played against Living End and Aggro Loam a lot though.
Two of my friends branched out and tried Aggro Loam and Living End after they got sick of traditional Jund. Storm is just faster. And sexier.


Melira Pod: very favorable game 1. That infinite combo takes setup. If they play resto, it can get tricky since they can resto/sin collector for value. However, that's a value you, not an I'm killing you play. Postboard, they actually have a decent gambit of disruptive spells to go with there clock making things hairier.


Pretty much what I've learned too, though I've only played Melira Pod a couple of times. Kiki Pod is definitely easier.


VS: Blue Moon - Pretty damn easy as long as you've fetched an Island and can dance around some of the hard counters. At least, it was for me in the testing games I did last week with my buddy who's preparing for Richmond. :shrug: I don't think Blue Moon is a good deck to begin with though.


Big takeaway is this deck is VERY resilient to disruption, so much so that I've found decks to generally have a better time racing. The grindy decks with the best chances of winning are UWR with snapcasters and spell snares, and Jund post board since they have infinite relevant disruption.

I'd guess that the shrout version from the article at least has a higher turn 3 kill rate since you can potentially have more control over the many cards you see with looting giving your more choices then scour/ravings. 3 lavamancers Electromancers is just criminal though :no2:

Like I said, the Looting version is just my personal preference. With so many amazing players championing the deck, it's hard to pick a 'better'
version. However, I've tried 3 Electromancer and I've tried 4. 4 is definitely where the deck needs to be.


I'm just gonna reply in red cuz I'm lazy today. :D
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Platypus » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:18 pm

I've been doing some goldfishing to get a feel for what hands are keepable and to get some experience with setting up the combo. It isn't that hard to do, I'm getting the hang of it. But doing for real will be harder.

Anyway, I have tested the Faithless Looting variant, and it can be very fast. On the other hand, there's been situations where I'd definitely would have liked the one card less discard from a Desperate Ravings. But with the rituals it's easier to flashback Faithless Looting. Some extra cantrips (Thought Scour) would have been nice some times, but so far I haven't missed them.

What are your thoughts on some mixup of the two versions? Like Looting + Ravings, or Looting + Thought Scour? Instead of Looting + Bolt, or Ravings + Thought Scour?
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:34 pm

IDK, I haven't thought much of it. You could probably find a way to add 2 lootings to the Ravings/Scour list, though if you did that, you'd also want to add a land. Maybe later, we can all brainstorm what the core of the deck is and figure out how much utility we can get out of the flex slots later. I do like the idea of 17 lands though.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:27 pm

I played a lot of Game 1's last night against Affinity. I started off with my normal "18-Land, Faithless Looting" build. Maybe I just had some really bad luck, but I was only able to go off about every 4th game. It was terrible.

And then it kind of dawned on me. I had what an alcoholic refers to as a "moment of clarity."

The Looting variant appeals to me so much not because it's "faster," but because it allows you to be patient. It allows you to wait for the right time to go off. If all the maindeck Bolts ever did was to buy you just one extra turn, then that is the turn you're going off.

By contrast, the Finkel version is much more all-in. And this is the faster deck. It's a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants type deck. What makes it so scary is the amount of randomness that's involved with playing Thoughtscour and Desperate Ravings. It doesn't care if it flips over an Ascension on
turn 1 with Thoughtscour. It doesn't care because the deck is going to draw more cards and fill its graveyard up faster.

If it sounds like I'm suddenly converted, I don't mean to be. I played a literal shit ton of games last night against just Affinity. I was able to combo much more consistently than the Looting version. Going back to riding on 16 lands will take some getting used to though.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Platypus » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:46 pm

I intend to try out the Finkel version when I get the cards for it (ok, I could just pretend Lootings are Ravings...). There have been a few games when I tried going off too early and it just fizzles, either because I don't have enough stuff in the graveyard to get early Ascension counters, or I've not had enough draw either in my hand or in the graveyard after a Past in Flames. The extra cantripping that Though Scour offers could have helped in these situations, and you may be right about that version being faster. As for Looting, I've some games started off with a first turn Looting, not Serum Visions, and that have seemed to work well. Especially if I'd also have an Ascension on hand. It sets up the graveyard and digs deeper than Serum Visions. I don't know if this have been just luck, or if there's some merit to starting of with a first turn Looting?

And a totally random idea...I'm going to try out a version
with 2x Ideas Unbound. The double blue cost is a bit awkward, but it digs deeper than Looting/Ravings, and you don't have to discard until end of turn. Could be relevant the turn you intend to go off. I'm not completely sold on it due to the casting cost, but it doesn't hurt to try it. Unless it's already been done and deemed bad?
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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:41 pm

It couldn't hurt to try Ideas Unbound, I suppose. I've only played it in the Blistercoil Weird combo deck (that's the real reason why Paradise Mantle shot up to $10, lol).
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Platypus » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:56 am

Ok, I'm back after a short vacation in Rome. Beautiful city and great food, I really recommend it!

Anyway, I've been thinking about sideboards and Storm hate cards while there. Some sideboards include 2-3 Swan Songs. At first I wondered why, but then I realized that some of the worse hate cards against Storm are enchantments (Leylines, Rule of Law, Rest in Peace) and Swan Song is a cheap way to counter those. However, there're a few artifacts as well, Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage (maybe others?). So, is perhaps Annul a better alternative? It's just as cheap, but hits both artifacts and enchantments. Swan Song work against Rakdos Charm and counterspells, but against counterspells we have Defense Grid anyway. Annul hitting most of the cards in Affinity is a bonus as well. Thoughts?
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Postby Platypus » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:23 pm

I've been goldfishing around with the different versions and I've come to the conclusion that I don't like the Desperate Ravings/Thought Scour version. It might be because I started testing with the Faithless Looting version, but it fits me better. I really don't like the randomness in the other version, both from Desperate Ravings and from Thought Scour. Faithless Looting might be card disadvantage, but the discard is controlled, it can be played first turn to set up your graveyard for Ascension, and it's easier to flashback on its own (because of the Rituals, you don't need a Manamorphose to filter red into blue).

I also tried Ideas Unbound instead of the Thought Scours and they weren't half bad. I wouldn't want 4x, but 2x might be ok. You want to play it on the turn you go off, but not before. With an active Ascension it's just insane.

Anyway, I'm hopefully going to try this out for real next FNM:

[deck]

Land 17
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
4 Island
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Shivan Reef
1 City of Brass

Creatures 4
4 Goblin Electromancer

Enchantment 4
4 Pyromancer Ascension

Win-Con 5
3 Grapeshot
2 Lightning Bolt

Support spells 30
3 Past In Flames
3 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual

Sideboard 15
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Echoing Truth
2 Shatterstorm
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
[/deck]

The manabase is what it is, because of card availability. Otherwise it's Khaospawn's version.

I'm a bit unsure on how to sideboard, so any tips on that is appreciated.
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Postby Valdarith » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:14 pm

Anger of the Gods is strictly better than Slagstorm in every matchup you'd bring the two cards in for. I think a third Shatterstorm would be nice to have. I would probably bump Defense Grid to a one of. Fighting through countermagic isn't as problematic as fighting through postboard hate so the two Echoing Truth is enough in my opinion.
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Postby Platypus » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:35 am

That Slagstorm is just there for card availability reasons. As for the rest, I have to try it out and see. A third Shatterstorm might be better than the second Defense Grid in my meta.
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:39 pm

I like burning things, I like combo, I hate playing Robots/Affinity (really hated it) should I buy Storm?
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Postby Platypus » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:18 pm

What are you missing from the deck? The mana base is the most expensive, of the other cards Pyromaster's Ascension, Past in Flames and Serum Visions are the ones that cost much. For my part, I had almost the rest except for Past on Flames so it wasn't so expensive to get a deck without an optimal manabase. I will probably stay with this one for a while, maybe experimenting a bit with different versions.

I participated in a small GPT today (9 players). Got a bye first round, won the second round 2-1 against an elf deck, then promptly lost to Merfolk, Affinity, and UWR. Well it was my first real games so that was to be expected. But hmm...I sometimes missed having some more card draw, so I will probably try the Ravings/Thought Scour version next.
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Postby Khaospawn » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:21 pm

Against uber aggressive strategies, like Affinity, I think the Finkel version is better. It's what I switched to after some hardcore testing against Affinity a while back.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Khaospawn » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:24 pm

Platypus, do you finally see what I mean about goldfishing and actual interactive games? Big difference. The thing is, you HAVE to goldfish a lot to really get a feel for the deck, but then the next level is to play some live games so you know when to act under pressure. Deciding on when to go all-in is a huge part of piloting Storm right.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Platypus » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:06 pm

Yeah, I knew it would be different to play it for real. Lots of hard decisions, I know I made some mistakes. I should have mulliganed more agressively in a few of the games. Lost the second Affinity game even though I got off a turn three Shatterstorm and with Anger of the Gods as backup. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas animating a Darksteel Citadel did me in before I could go off. Against the Merfolk deck I had Slagstorm on my hand for a long time, but not enough mana to get it through Spell Pierce and that Force Spike merfolk. Then he got a Coralhelm Commander up to level four and then it was too late. So yeah, it's different to grind through real games. Which is why I realized that I wanted more cantrips.

So this is what I'm taking to the tourney next weekend:

[deck]
Land 16
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
4 Island
2 Shivan Reef

Enablers 8
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Pyromancer Ascension

nWin-cons 2
2 Grapeshot

Support spells 34
3 Past In Flames
3 Desperate Ravings
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual

Sideboard 15
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Echoing Truth
3 Shatterstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Defense Grid
3 Blood Moon
[/deck]

If several of us are on the Finkel version now, perhaps we should figure out some sideboarding plans against the important decks?
Last edited by Platypus on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Khaospawn » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:27 pm

One thing I have definitely learned from playing against Affinity : just because you resolved a Shatterstorm does not mean you've won the game.:lol:

Finkel laid out a pretty good sideboard strategy in his article, IMO.


Also, not that I don't think Storm needs to play it, but it seems like Volcanic Fallout may have been what you needed in your match against Merfolk. But overall, I think we're somewhat favored (as long as they're not playing a counter heavy build).
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby Platypus » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:43 pm

Volcanic Fallout would have been better, but I think Anger of the the Gods is better overall if you want a sweeper. The can't be countered clause is relevant against Merfolk and Faeries, while the three damage and exile is more relevant against other decks. Faeries is nowhere to be seen and Merfolk isn't that common either.

I started reading Finkel's article again now that I played for real, and I noticed the sideboarding guides at the end.
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:41 pm

I own everything except for Past in Flames and Blood Moon which would set me back 100$ just for 3 of each :P.
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Postby Platypus » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:34 am

In that case I'd get the Past in Flames (it's a mythic so if the deck becomes more popular they will go up) and try around without Blood Moon in the sideboard. I've noticed that people usually know to play around it and fetch basics, so I've never seen it work really well. But I might be wrong on how important it is in relevant matchups.
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Postby Platypus » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:06 am

Here's Finkel's sideboarding guide for ease of reference:

Zoo

Out
-3 Desperate Ravings
-1 Past in Flames
-1 Pyromancer Ascension
-2 Thought Scour (-4 on draw)
-1 Grapeshot (unless they have X/1s)

In
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Empty the Warrens
+1 Echoing Truth
+2 Blood Moon (on play)

Affinity

Out
-4 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Desperate Ravings
-1 Pyromancer Ascension
-1 Past in Flames

In
+3 Shatterstorm
+4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Empty the Warrens

Control

Out
-4 Thought Scour
-1 Grapeshot
-2 Past in Flames

In
+3 Blood Moon
+1 Defense Grid
+3 Empty the Warrens

Pod

Out
-4 Thought Scour

In
+4 Lightning Bolt

Jund/BG/Tron

Out
-4 Thought Scour
-1 Past in Flames
-1 Grapeshot

In
+3 Empty the Warrens
+3 Blood Moon

Bogles

Out
-
1 Desperate Ravings

In
+1 Echoing Truth

Infect

Out
-1 Pyromancer Ascension
-4 Thought Scour

In
+4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Echoing Truth

Twin

Out
-3 Thought Scour
-1 Grapeshot
-1 Past in Flames

In
+1 Defense Grid
+3 Empty the Warrens
+1 Echoing Truth


Looks pretty good to me. There's a few decks that we could add to this: Scapeshift, GW Hatebears, Merfolk, Ad Nauseam, Burn, Living End, Boros Landfall, and the mirror of course.
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Postby Platypus » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:32 pm

Some thoughts from our local big event last Sunday. 70 participants (big for our local scene...), and about 1000€ in products as price support for the top 16. It was a varied metagame from what I could see, and with experienced players and players who participated in their first competitive level event.

I was using the Finkel version straight with the same sideboard as well, except with a slightly inferior manabase (4 Scalding Tarns, 2 Misty Rainforest, and only 2 Shivan Reef) but I don't think the manabase differences mattered at all.

Round 1: UR Delver/Young Pyromancer

Got a lousy start. First hand was a one-lander with no blue draw spells, then my first mulligan gave me a three-lander with 2 Gitaxian Probes and 1 Serum Visions. Threw that away as well, and got a hand with no lands. Since it had some card draw and was good in other ways I decided to keep it. Got a land soon, but not enough and I couldn't combo
before he killed me. I won the second game, and the third went to extra turns. I tried making enough goblins to help me stay alive long enough to get a draw (since I couldn't combo of with what I had), but I couldn't do it. 1-2.

Round 2: Amulet of Vigor

I groaned a bit when I saw my matchup, because I was up against our probably best local player. I don't think I've ever won him before. I expected him to be on UWR, but when Amulet of Vigor of Vigor turned up on the second turn followed by a Ravnica bounceland, Summer Bloom, more bouncelands and a Primeval Titan on turn two I knew how wrong I was about it. Turns out a secound turn attacking 8/6 Titan is pretty scary. But hey, storm combo on turn three wins the game... :toot:
And so does a second turn Blood Moon. 2-0

Round 3: UWR, with Restoration Angel/Kiki-Jiki combo

I won the first game, and figured he was on a regular UWR control deck when the Kiki-
Jiki combo surprised me in the second game. But I won the third game, so 2-1.

Round 4: UG Delver

Urgh, another Delver deck. Not very happy about that matchup. Can't remember much about this one. He won the first game, I the second, and he the third. 1-2

Round 5: Affinity

I can't remember much about this one either. Shatterstorm did its thing. 2-1

Round 6: Merfolk

Two very quick games, with me losing. Second merfolk deck I've lost to (the other was on the GPT the week before). I'm starting to see a trend here, blue-based aggro is a problem. They have fast creatures with counterspell backup. 0-2

Round 7: UW Control

I knew she would be using a UW deck from my scouting earlier, saw the typical stuff and a Tamiyo. But it turned out she had some Karns in the deck as well. Anyway, I managed to play around some counters in the first game and comboed off. In the second I had several rituals and an Empty the Warrens in my starting hand so I decided to save up on rituals, wait until I had 4
lands (to be able to play a second ritual if the first one was countered) and then fire of the lot and create lots of goblins. Turns out 10 early goblins were enough to close the deal. 2-0

So my final score was 4-3 (5-2 would have been enough for top 16). I'm happy with this result, because I had feared a much worse result. I must say I'm feeling a lot more confident with the deck now, and I'm liking this version more than the other. My losses were all to blue-based aggro decks, which means that I'm seeing a trend. I'm going to try putting 2 Volcanic Fallouts in the sideboard next. I've decided on Volcanic Fallout instead of Anger of the Gods mostly because of the "can't be countered" clause and because it's an Instant. The winner of the tournament was the same Merfolk player I lost to in the GPT, so there's a chance to face that deck again. So this will be my deck going forward (manabase is far from optimal, but I had borrowed three fetches for the tournament so I can't expect to use
them in the future):

[deck]
Land 16
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
4 Island
2 City of Brass
2 Shivan Reef

Enablers 8
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Pyromancer Ascension

Win-cons 2
2 Grapeshot

Support spells 34
3 Past In Flames
3 Desperate Ravings
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual

Sideboard 15
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Shatterstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Volcanic Fallout
[/deck]

This will be my sideboarding strategy:

Zoo
-3 Desperate Ravings
-1 Past in Flames
-1 Pyromancer Ascension
-2 Thought Scour (-4 on play)
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Empty the Warrens
+2 Blood Moon (on play)

Affinity
-4 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Desperate Ravings
-1 Pyromancer Ascension
-1 Past in Flames
+3 Shatterstorm
+4 Lightning Bolt
+1 Empty the Warrens

Control
-4 Thought Scour
-1 Grapeshot
-1 Past in Flames
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Defense Grid
+3 Empty the Warrens

Pod/
Infect/GW Hatebears
-4 Thought Scour
-2 Desperate Ravings
+4 Lightning Bolt
+2 Volcanic Fallout

Jund/BG/Tron
-4 Thought Scour
-1 Grapeshot
+3 Empty the Warrens
+2 Blood Moon

Bogles
-2 Desperate Ravings
+2 Volcanic Fallout

Twin
-2 Thought Scour
-1 Grapeshot
-1 Past in Flames
+1 Defense Grid
+3 Empty the Warrens

Ad Nauseam/Amulet of Vigor/Scapeshift
-1 Pyromancer's Ascension
-1 Past in Flames
+2 Blood Moon

Merfolk/Faeries/UR Delver/Boros Landfall
-1 Pyromancer's Ascension
-1 Past in Flames
-3 Desperate Ravings
-4 Thought Scour
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Empty the Warrens
+2 Volcanic Fallout

Burn
-4 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Empty the Warrens
+1 Defense Grid

Living End

???

Storm

???
Last edited by Platypus on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:19 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:05 am

Good report. You should probably have kept the 3 land, 3 cantrip hand.

Not great, but your deck is highly redundant, and you can hold the second probe for if/when you draw Ascenscion to power through his bullshit which is how you win a lot of your games vs. counterspell decks.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Platypus » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:05 pm

Most other hands I got were keepable, I didn't mulligan down to five in any of the other rounds. So yeah, the redundancy in this version is very high. I've been thinking about that first hand afterwards, mostly debating whether or not I should have mulliganed it at all.

About Ascension and fighting through counterspells...I noticed that myself during one of the matches. I hadn't thought about that before, but it brought a smile to my face when I noticed it. One of those lightbulb moments, and it made me realize that only one Defense Grud in the sideboard is enough. Defense Grid was sweet though when it resolved. Another thing about Ascension I just noticed is that both the counter adding and copying are optional. Which means you really have to take care to mention that the counter gets added or the spells get copied and put on the stack. I've been a bit lazy with announcing that, and it could have bit me in these
competitive level events. Luckily, my opponents haven't been complaining about it or noticing...
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Postby Platypus » Fri May 09, 2014 11:00 am

Any thoughts on this Scapeshift/Storm hybrid:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... shift.html
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Postby warwizard87 » Fri May 09, 2014 12:17 pm

I wil say this I love how cheap the deck is lol. only 3!!! sac lands holy shit! love it just for that heh
Kazekirimaru » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:17 pm wrote:I swear to God, every thread we make falls victim to Godwin's law except instead of Hitler it's redthirst's piece.

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Postby BrainsickHater » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:09 am

Been playing the UR Storm deck for a while, thought I'd jump in on this forum.

I've seen some discussion on Looting vs Ravings lists, and I am a firm believer that the Ravings lists are strictly better. Randomness might feel bad, but the deck is highly redundant and the graveyard synergies really add up to generate card advantage; something the deck desperately needs ever since all the good cantrips got banned.

Also been seeing a lot of reactive SB cards. I am extremely adverse to boarding in answers with the Storm deck. 4x Lightning Bolt is fine because it can often become a win-con, 3x Shatterstorm is a necessity since Affinity is actually faster than us, but beyond that you really want to have as few reactive cards as possible (i only play one more in Echoing Truth). The power of Storm is the ability to kill your opponent quickly and with a lot of resilience. Every single reactive piece you board in hurts your
combo and pushes you closer to a fair deck. We don't want to play fair.

Idk if you guys ever got around to trying Ideas Unbound, but UU is a steep price. It just doesn't work out.

Lastly, how do people feel about Act on Impulse? I'm considering replacing Ravings with Impulse. I know we lose the ability to "sculpt" our hand with Ravings when we're not going off, and we can't cast it if we mill it with Thought Scour, but Ravings' primary purpose is to enable your nut draw, something Act on Impulse is better at. Additionally, ever since Seething Song got banned, Storm has been lacking a way to generate mana advantage or card advantage. Playing Act on Impulse really does feel like playing a Seething Song for card advantage. I really just think the raw power of Act on Impulse is so good that the extra utility Ravings provides just looks cute by comparison.

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Postby Khaospawn » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:04 am

I'll try it Act when I can get my testing buddies over again. Or I can just goldfish it over and over again :lol:. I'll just replace the Ravings with it.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Postby LP, of the Fires » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:22 am

Fully planning on getting foil acts for the chance that it's awesome in storm.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby Khaospawn » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:00 pm

With an Electromancer out, it's just all sorts of awesome. I'm getting a semi-chub just thinking about it.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.


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