Primer: R/w/x Aggro

Guttler · Postby **Guttler** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:00 pm

Good point. I guess I was just paranoid about Ashiok stealing the Nyx-Smith and doing evil things with it. (The local meta also happens to be obsessed with putting mainboard Ashiok in control decks as a meta call against the other control decks).

I wouldn't be too worried. As burn you're the aggressive deck vs Control Ashiok comes down and has no immediate board impact and even not much long term impact, even if they flip a Nix-Smith immediately you should be in a position where they are already at the last few points of life and can't really race you with Nix-smith. Even if they are at a relatively high life total thanks to Elixer or something, I'm still not scared of them ever stealing Nix-Smith, since they 1.) need red mana and they need to tap mana during their untap step to gain the elementals. and 2.) It's a 2/1 vs a deck playing tons of burn.

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:53 am

Thinking of playing this next week. The local meta is pretty heavy on the control/midrange decks, so the sideboard is more tuned towards those match-ups.

If you're expecting to face lot of control decks then move satyr firedancer to sideboard and SFD to main, would also play ash zealot over YP (basically you want to force through as much creature damage as possible before they verdict and then finish them off with burn). Satyr firedancer is good against creature decks, but control won't have any creatures to aim at.

I'd also consider running more 1 drops (cackler) over helix. Helix is good against aggro and in the mirror, but the life-gain is pretty irrelevant against control and mid-range, where you're basically trying to kill them
before they can stabilize. Midrange is good at 1-4-1'ing your threats, so you want to spew them out as quickly as possible and overwhelm them.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:54 am

The more I think about it, the more I like this build:

[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery (I'll be cutting this for another Toil // Trouble)
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble (3x in my case, I want to ensure UWx Control stays dead - if the MU is truly cake, I'll keep the Electrickery)[/deck]
Unlike most burn decks it stomps on UWx Control though it suffers slightly for it against aggro (though the sideboard addresses that with flying colors). This will most likely be the Rw list I'll be
testing after my break (its a nice change from RB since its Spells supported by Creatures rather then the Creature supported by Spells set-up I have over on the RB end).

Here is my rough SB guide:

UWx
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 2 Skullcrack, 3 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker, 4 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Magma Jet

Gx and Rx Devotion + non-Ux Aggro
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood, 4 Boros Reckoner
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler, 2 [card:
2a1os0br]Skullcrack[/card], 2 Boros Charm

Bx Devotion
In: 2 Skullcrack
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker

Ux Devotion + Esper Midrange
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler

If you disagree let me know

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:10 am

Is temple of silence over plains end up not working out?

Edit: Enjoying the deck. Almost wondered why not ash zealot over chainwalker but I'm assuming it's to bash carytids.

pikachufan2164 · Postby **pikachufan2164** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:37 am

Edit: Enjoying the deck. Almost wondered why not ash zealot over chainwalker but I'm assuming it's to bash carytids.

There's a discussion of the deck on Reddit going on right now. Here are Lundgren's thoughts on some of the card choices:

Some of my previous iterations of this deck included Ash Zealot, I cut it because it gets brick-walled by just about everything. I preferred Gore-House because of his ability to attack through Sylvan Caryatid and trade with Nightveil Spectre, as well as not dying to last breath. Rakdos Cackler was probably the worst card I'm the deck, but I'm not sure I'
d replace it with Zealot. Reckoner was primarily for GR Monsters and other creature-heavy decks.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:20 am

The more I think about it, the more I like this build:

Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro
[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery (I'll be cutting this for another Toil // Trouble)
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble (3x in my case, I want to ensure UWx Control stays dead -
if the MU is truly cake, I'll keep the Electrickery)[/deck]
Unlike most burn decks it stomps on UWx Control though it suffers slightly for it against aggro (though the sideboard addresses that with flying colors). This will most likely be the Rw list I'll be testing after my break (its a nice change from RB since its Spells supported by Creatures rather then the Creature supported by Spells set-up I have over on the RB end).

Here is my rough SB guide:

UWx
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 2 Skullcrack, 3 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker, 4 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Magma Jet

Are UW running enough creatures to make Firedancer better than GHC here? GHC evades LB and
is an excellent T2 drop that they HAVE to answer.

Gx and Rx Devotion + non-Ux Aggro
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood, 4 Boros Reckoner
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler, 2 Skullcrack, 2 Boros Charm

I could see running a 3rd Firedancer over the 3rd Toil for this and the Ux and Esper Mid match ups.

Bx Devotion
In: 2 Skullcrack
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker

I like GHC here too, trades with Spectre, great T2 play, threat
diversity, soaks up removal before Firstblade and Trooper hit. I'd rather take out 2 Boros Charm.

Ux Devotion + Esper Midrange
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler

Agree

If you disagree let me know

Initial thoughts are in Red

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:42 am

Also quite like this list. It gets round the problem of Drown in Sorrow by having a lot of "1-shot" creatures like Viashino and Spark Trooper. I also like the idea of Boros charming Spark trooper, although in practice you won't make the 5th land drop and have both cards in hand that often.

Also interesting that he's gone 4 FDS and 2 Cackler. I've been thinking along similar lines myself, as FDS is better against Sylvan Caryatid (and boros charm itself is another way to kill a Caryatid via double strike). Also quite like having Skullcrack MB as a hedge against B/x and U/x (especially as game 2 against U/x is always scary, as they often sideboard in Archangel of Thune or Fiendslayer, which are bombs when you're sided out all of your chained)

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:37 am

Initial thoughts are in Red

Hmmmm... I agree with your Bx Devotion argument, in regards to UWx Control I play on MODO, MODO runs fiendslayer - I don't answer fiendslayer with this version I will lose. Even if I wasn't playing on MODO, I still want to deal with the Angel and Cat - sadly I don't think we have enough room for Glare.

The third Dancer over T // T does sound reasonable, needs more testing I really disliked the UWx MU back with traditional burn so unless we're really stomping them I want to keep the T // T.

That said I don't believe the 3rd dancer would go in against Gx and Rx Devotion + non-Ux Aggro[/u:
2pk0if9l] because adding that dancer would = less burn which would = really horrible dancers, it does however do wonders for the Ux and Esper Mid-range MU.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Good point about Fiendslayer, I'd forgotten about him! Cat and Angel makes sense too.

Also wondering if against GR Boros Charm might be better left in than GHC - Courser, Dragon, Fanatic - though that does leave you relying heavily on getting a Dancer in play.

As you say, requires testing

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 pm

I still can't decide between R/w, R/b and dega for burn post-BotG.

R/w means I can play Chained to the Rocks, Boros Charm, Assemble the Legion, Boros Reckoner and Warleader's Helix. CttR is probably going to get worse as people play more enchantment hate (plenty of decks playing revoke existence and unravel the ether as answers to gods, doubly bad as Boros Charm doesn't protect against these). Helix is slightly less relevant in the current meta as no-one seems to play blitz aggro any more (not in my local meta at least). It's also bad against SBD and Blood Baron (unless I play Satyr Firedancer). The one big plus point for me is that I can play a full set of mutavaults without messing up my fixing too much. Assemble is also a great game 2 plan against MBD

R/W is an option with Brimaz and Elspeth, but I find it just too slow to get going against MBD and U/w

R/b I can play Spike Jester (great against Sylvan
Caryatid), Dreadbore, Ultimate Price, Exava, Thoughtseize, Duress, Rakdos Returns. The downside is Mutavault is worse in this list, but maybe not the end of the world as I have so much hand-hate out of the board (so my U/w match-up is pretty good already). Probably the worst match-up is fast aggro, as I have no lifegain in the deck.

R/B is an option and brings Hero's Downfall, Whip of Erebos, Desecration Demon, Herald of Torment and Lifebane Zombie in to the picture, at the expense of Boros Reckoner.

Dega I get all of the above, but worse fixing and more CITPT lands. Also Mutavault is bad here.

I'm sort of leaning towards R/B, as LBZ is such a house against green decks, which are disproportionately popular in my LGS meta.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:30 am

Good point about Fiendslayer, I'd forgotten about him! Cat and Angel makes sense too.

Also wondering if against GR Boros Charm might be better left in than GHC - Courser, Dragon, Fanatic - though that does leave you relying heavily on getting a Dancer in play.

As you say, requires testing

Gorehouse kills carytids so I wouldn't cut them. 2 charms is probably plenty. Besides, you're probably saving them for boros reckoner anyway. Multiple Satyrs stacking is a good argument for somehow sneaking a third somewhere but there just isn't anything I can see to board out though. Swiftblade is potentially the next weakest card in its 2/2 form but with 14 burn, you
don't want to overkill this.

poppa_f · Postby **poppa_f** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:09 am

What do you guys think about a singleton Keening Apparition main deck? In my current meta I'm expecting to play mainly G/R, MBC and U/w control, so it has a decentish range against all 3 (courser of kruphrix, underworld connections+whip, detention sphere+blind obedience). Even if it whiffs on enchantments, a 2/1 for 2 isn't terrible. Basically it allows you to maindeck enchantment hate, without being a completely dead draw against decks with no enchantments.

I'm playing in the LGS game day on Sunday, this is my current 75 + SB plan:

deck

sideboard plan

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:33 am

The more I think about it, the more I like this build:

[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery (I'll be cutting this for another Toil // Trouble)
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble (3x in my case, I want to ensure UWx Control stays dead - if the MU is truly cake, I'll keep the Electrickery)[/deck]
Unlike most burn decks it stomps on
UWx Control though it suffers slightly for it against aggro (though the sideboard addresses that with flying colors). This will most likely be the Rw list I'll be testing after my break (its a nice change from RB since its Spells supported by Creatures rather then the Creature supported by Spells set-up I have over on the RB end).

Here is my rough SB guide:

UWx
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 2 Skullcrack, 3 [card]Toil // Trouble[/card]
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker, 4 Chained to the Rocks, 1 Magma Jet

Gx and Rx Devotion + non-Ux Aggro
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood, 4 [card]Boros
Reckoner[/card]
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler, 2 Skullcrack, 2 Boros Charm

Bx Devotion
In: 2 Skullcrack
Out: 2 Gore-House Chainwalker

Ux Devotion + Esper Midrange
In: 2 Satyr Firedancer, 4 Searing Blood
Out: 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 2 Rakdos Cackler

If you disagree let me know

Keep the elecktrickery. it's the SWEETEST
tech vs. RG mosnters. Think about all the sylvan caryatids you'll kill.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:36 am

Keep the elecktrickery. it's the SWEETEST tech vs. RG mosnters. Think about all the sylvan caryatids you'll kill.

It also great vs Ux Devotion and Esper Aggro, I think the build is already solid against UW - so yes, I agree I'll keep the Electrickery.

BTW I swear this build needs more lands, just look at the amount of 3-drops it runs in the 75 its insane, the question is 23 or 24 lands and what to cut.

zeromuzuki · Postby **zeromuzuki** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:42 pm

The more I think about it, the more I like this build:

[deck=Ben Lundgren's Rw Aggro, PTQ Salt Lake 1st Place]Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Viashino Firstblade
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spark Trooper

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Skullcrack

Land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery (I'll be cutting this for another Toil // Trouble)
2 Satyr Firedancer
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Toil // Trouble (3x in my case, I want to ensure UWx Control stays dead - if the MU is truly cake, I'll keep the Electrickery)[/deck]
Unlike most burn decks it stomps
on UWx Control though it suffers slightly for it against aggro (though the sideboard addresses that with flying colors). This will most likely be the Rw list I'll be testing after my break (its a nice change from RB since its Spells supported by Creatures rather then the Creature supported by Spells set-up I have over on the RB end).

Can anyone explain to me why he chose to have the extra 1 drops in Rakdos Cackler? Could those 2 spots be taken away for something else, say like a land like you suggested @Magicdownunder or even cheap removal like shock.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:08 am

Extra one drops makes it more likely to have them in the opener and gives you some.level of protection from bile blights and dspheres.

Also, from rereading this thread, mdu and lazerburn are currently my favorite posters. Smart magic players we have here.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:06 am

I am trying a mix between mdu and z's by main decking 3 Satyr plus searing blood. See if correct.

Edit: Worked well, here's the list I ran

Deck

Match 1 vs Patrick; UB budget Mill

Kid was rebuilding his stockpile of cards after his dad sold them. The game was a bye.

Match 2 vs Jonny; GR monsters

At least it was match 2 before I played my friend. Game 1, I kept a Foundry/Mutavault hand and never hit a 3rd land and got
crushed. Game 2 was much more interesting but I punted on two occasions. One, I jetted his first BTE without seeing his next card which Scavenging ooze and for some reason I didn't kill it too. I had to chain it after it gave him 3 life. While I got him down to 5 with spark troopers and such, Polykronos and Ruric Thar kept me from burning surviving. Game probably would have been quite different if I left that BTE alive. 0-2.I believe I boarded out 4 Firedrinkers, 3 Firstblade, and 2 Skullcrack for 4 Reckoners, 4 Chains, and 1 more Spark Trooper.

Match 3 vs David; GBR monsters

I had a very difficult time game 1 figuring out what he was doing as he mostly played lands and took damage from a Firstblade and Firedancer. He played a turn 5 polykronos which died to a Satyr Firedancer + Lightning strike + Searing blood and swinging for another 3 to put him to 1. He scooped. -2 Magma Jet, -4 Firedrinker, +4 chain, +2 skullcrack (which was a mistake). Game 2, I started with a hand of Firedancer, Charm, Chain,
and lands, one being a mutavault. He plays a turn 3 courser and I decide to let it stay in play turn 3 rather than chain it. He hits for 2. I play my Firedancer leaving boros charm mana up. He end of turn abrupt decays, I charm to kill his courser. He duresses my chain but does nothing else as my mutavault slowly beats him from 15 to 9 while I slow roll a spark trooper as I keep drawing more lands. I skull crack him to 6 end of turn, play the spark trooper to see if he has it and he shows 2 dreadbore. Shrug.

Match 4 vs Brian; BUG control

Game 1 I pretty much beat him to death with firstblades, charms and spark troopers. He plays a Kiora, dissolve, and maybe a hero's downfall before he dies. Having seen so little of his deck, I decided not to remove all my creature removal and did -3 Firedancer, -2 Searing Blood, +1 Spark Trooper, +2 Cackler, +2 Toil. Game 2, I proceed to push Phoenixes past his counterspell and removal, probably killing an early Kiora. He proceeds to play Jace, Memory Adept and mills
me 10, hitting another phoenix. I buy it back, kill Jace. I proceed to get him to 12 with Phoenixes until 1 dies. He plays another Jace and mills my other two phoenixes. Boros charm him to 8 end of turn to get 3 phoenixes back, play 2 my turn (I was "flooding"), slam for 6 to get him to 2 and he finds no way to dig out. He tells me after the game he runs 0 creatures and I let him know he was better off +1'ing Jace rather than milling out a guy playing Phoenixes.

Top 8 match vs Jordan; WR Heroic

This poor kid couldn't catch a break. This store was doing 1st free mulligan and game 1 he still mulls to 6 keeping a 1 land hand. I run him over with Gore-House and swarm. +4 Reckoners, +2 chain, -2 Skullcrack, -4 Firedrinker. Game 2 he now mulls to 5 and I'm holding a firstblade heavy hand with one spark trooper. He plays an early hoplite and that 1/1 double strike guy. I choose to kill the double strike one while he's tapped out. I save burn in response to madcap skills + trigger. He god's
willing, countering his Madcap but leaving him a 3/4 that's outside my burn range. Here is where I punt amazingly hard at 12 life and him at 14. Instead of playing a spark trooper + tapped shockland to get me back to 18, I play a first blade instead of a boros reckoner, shock myself, keeping mana open for lightning strike. He had one card in hand so I decided I should be the aggressor and play around burn which I damn well should know heroic doesn't run. He boros charms his hoplite for 10 damage exactly. Game 3 I board out 2 Gore-House for 2 more chains and vow to play control like a proper boy. He mulls to 5 again, has to keep a one land hand. I keep a hand with 2 R lands + Mutavault, Firedancer, Searing Blood, a chain, and something else. Turn one he plays that lifelink Eidolon. Turn 2 I play Firedancer. Turn 2 he plays tapped land + Hoplite. I searing blood to kill both his creatures and he scoops after 2 turns of Satyr/Mutavault beatings while I hold up mana for another searing blood and two chains in
hand.

Split at top 4.

Other than GR, I think I played some less than stellar decks but the pieces felt right. I had tried maindeck Firedancers for a couple weeks and was quite happy and finally get a playset of Searing Blood this week was a huge improvement. I think I'm settled on maindeck Satyr over chains for more aggression and a better answer to the pro white creatures. First week I didn't run Shock and frankly, I didn't miss it at all. I think I want another land in general and another red mana in particular so I might put a mountain or a temple of Malice in. I would probably cut a cackler sideboard as it still feels like the deck's weakest card. I just don't have a clue what in maindeck to move sideboard.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:06 am

Extra one drops makes it more likely to have them in the opener and gives you some.level of protection from bile blights and dspheres.

Also, from rereading this thread, mdu and lazerburn are currently my favorite posters. Smart magic players we have here.

Thanks LP, that means a lot coming from someone who I rate very highly as both a player and a poster

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:11 am

MDU, I'm screwing around with siding one charm for 23rd land and changing toil to dragons. Which means I suppose you don't need the black splash lands at all anymore. Is the scry worth it?

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:36 am

Just came back from game day and wanted to get this down while it is fresh. Made some tweaks a couple hours before going based on a lot of the suggestions here which helped a lot. Finally didn't have to play my friend tonight which was nice.

[deck]
Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Gore-house chainwalker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Viashino Swiftblade
3 Spark Trooper

Burn
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Land
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
9 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Spark Trooper
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the rocks
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Satyr Firedancer
1 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

Match 1 vs Bant midrange

Match 2 vs all in red

Match 3 vs UW heroic

I chat for a bit with another player who was doing the Z style creature light burn deck but he's missing both chains and reckoners sideboard.

Match 4 vs UW control

Match 5 was an intentional draw and he went to get food so I didn't find out what he was playing. I roamed the
tables like a lost hobo for over an hour while things get set up. I find out I go into top 8 at 1st place so I'm guaranteed to go first every matchup now. Weee! They do a secret ballot and someone agrees not to split around a $20 fund which was actually ok with me since we were playing for the mat regardless. Just meant I had to win to get the remaining store credit for my free mutavault.

Top 8 match vs black devotion

This time everyone agrees to split so I'm at $53 credit with a $10 buy in.

Top 4 vs Bant midrange

Top 2 vs GW aggro

Both satyrs were the mvp of the night. Firedrinker raced them down, traded up, and generally left opponents in unwinnable positions. Firedancer maindeck is 100% the right call for now. Unanswered, it takes over the game like Young Pyromancer did last season. Even against removal decks, it was never awkward as I could hold it until they tapped out for something good, play the dancer
plus charm or skullcrack or something to turn it into removal and be happy with the 2 for 2 plus burn to face when they removed it the following turn. 3 of seems right mainboard but the 4th belongs in the sideboard for all the match ups that don't have solid removal for it. Once two are on the field, the game is basically over unless you draw blanks. It changed board states from unwinnable to unlosable in many of my games. Plus, it's interaction with searing blood is just stupidly amazing.

Leave the chains in the sideboard. You don't need them game 1.

I'm going to swap the temple of silence with a 4th mutavault once I get it from the store.

I'm not sure if they were kidding but when people heard I wouldn't show up for game day tomorrow, they said they would actually show up tomorrow rather than skip.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:46 am

That was a good read and a very interesting take on the brews.

..... going to go build the list now.....

dauntless268 · Postby **dauntless268** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:36 pm

Wow, this looks good. If you play Firedancer main, wouldn't Warleader's Helix over Spark Trooper make sense?

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:01 pm

I decided to play Zman's list that he took to the GP with a couple of edits based on the cards I had (Only 3 Firedancers) and metagame (There's not as much mono-black).

[deck=Zman's Rw Burn with a couple tweaks]Creatures (11)
4 Ash Zealot
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (26)
3 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Land (23)
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
9 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Skullcrack
3 Spark Trooper
3 Toil // Trouble[/deck]

I don't quite remember all the details of the matches but I do remember some sticking points for each one.

Round 1 vs GB Homebrew Control

Round 2 vs GR Monsters

Round 3 vs GBW Homebrew Midrange

Round 4 vs Esper Control (Cheaper Variant, he's working on getting all the cards)

I went 3-1 for 2nd place for my first time playing a burn deck at a competition. The deck is strong but it's bad for my heart. I told the GWB player who won the tournament afterward that it's a lot like having sex when your girlfriend is about to come. You need to keep going but you have to watch yourself because if you come, you lose, it's over, and she doesn't her cookie. However, if you can keep yourself going, she comes, you come, and you won. Playing this deck is a lot like that. You're walking the line between losing and winning and even a single mistake can send you spiraling out control and becoming the worst lover she's ever had. The deck feels like it has just enough power to win and no more.

I'm going to continue playing this list for awhile. It forces you to play well or lose and I think it'll make me a better player. I'll probably change to the complete line up Zman posted now that I got my last firedancer.

One other thing, another
guy was running a homebrew Rw burn deck with young pyromancer, very similar to this list, he took 3rd and also lost to the junk player, but otherwise did well.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:11 pm

Wow, this looks good. If you play Firedancer main, wouldn't Warleader's Helix over Spark Trooper make sense?

Sounds like a good plan imo.

[deck]Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Gore-house chainwalker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Viashino Swiftblade

Burn
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Land
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault
9 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Spark Trooper
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the rocks
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Satyr Firedancer
1 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

Maybe?

EDIT: I tried Ben's list Subbing 1 Boros Charm for an extra Mountain - I did go 3-0 but its was just barely because I
keep getting flooded out (though that is the variance stick, since I also seem to mull all my hands with my RB list running 25 lands..).

I'll try the list with Dancer and friends tomorrow.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:48 pm

Wow, this looks good. If you play Firedancer main, wouldn't Warleader's Helix over Spark Trooper make sense?
Sounds like a good plan imo.

[deck]Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Gore-house chainwalker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Viashino Swiftblade

Burn
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Land
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault
9 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Spark Trooper
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the rocks
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Satyr Firedancer
n1 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

Maybe?

EDIT: I tried Ben's list Subbing 1 Boros Charm for an extra Mountain - I did go 3-0 but its was just barely because I keep getting flooded out (though that is the variance stick, since I also seem to mull all my hands with my RB list running 25 lands..).

I'll try the list with Dancer and friends tomorrow.

I'm going to give this build a test run. Although, I'm taking out the 2 Chainwalkers and adding 1 Firedancer and 1 Skullcrack.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:59 pm

I'm going to give this build a test run. Although, I'm taking out the 2 Chainwalkers and adding 1 Firedancer and 1 Skullcrack.

LOLS I was going to say I just went 3-0 with it and I was really unimpressed by Chainwalker

What are you tossing the the SB? 2x Toil // Trouble?

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:16 am

I'm going to give this build a test run. Although, I'm taking out the 2 Chainwalkers and adding 1 Firedancer and 1 Skullcrack.
LOLS I was going to say I just went 3-0 with it and I was really unimpressed by Chainwalker

What are you tossing the the SB? 2x Toil // Trouble?

Chainwalker just doesn't make sense in the build. It's a burn(ish) deck. Firedrinker provides a 1-drop threat and helps with mana efficiency, so I think it's a keeper. [card]Viashino
Firstblade[/card] acts as a Charm with some left-over board presence, so that's burn-ish enough.

Firedancer, imo, is 4 or nothing, so that's an easy replacement for 1 Chainwalker. I'm not 100% sure yet what to put in for the 2nd . . . Skullcrack, Charm, or Helix.

For the SB, I'm still giving that some thought. For now, I've just "rounded out" with an extra Reckoner and Warleader's Helix. I'm not inclined to play Toil / Trouble without Temple of Silence.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:08 am

I decided to go with:

[deck=DtR's Rw Aggro]Land 23
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Plain

Creatures 16
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Viashino Swiftblade

Burn 21
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Sideboard 15
2 Spark Trooper
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the rocks
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

I went 3-0 then 2-1 losing against Rw burn (lols) he hit more Searing Blood and Warleader's Helix then I did

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:37 am

As much as I talked up satyr, I'm not sure 4 main is right. Against a number of decks, you don't want to play it early. I also was never disappointed in chainwalker. It increased my number of turn 2 plays and I only beat several of my opponents because I curved out and goldfished. Helix over spark makes sense in hindsight. The extra 2 probably mattered once or twice though. Having some to dodge sideboard duress though was nice.

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:02 am

As much as I talked up satyr, I'm not sure 4 main is right. Against a number of decks, you don't want to play it early. I also was never disappointed in chainwalker. It increased my number of turn 2 plays and I only beat several of my opponents because I curved out and goldfished. Helix over spark makes sense in hindsight. The extra 2 probably mattered once or twice though. Having some to dodge sideboard duress though was nice.

My main concern with only 3 Firedancer is it very quickly becomes the target of any removal they have.

Anyway, I LOVE killing dragons with a Firedancer and a Charm. I'm thinking Charm should be 4 in the MB.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:52 am

I thought so too at first but two things. One, z is right that 2 dancers is too slow in a lot of matchups.

Two, the decks that play serious removal have to get rid of your other creatures or tap out to interact which is when you can slip in a dancer and burn. Honestly, if it turns a single charm into blocker removal, it has done its job there. You are not the control deck in those matches.

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:59 am

I thought so too at first but two things. One, z is right that 2 dancers is too slow in a lot of matchups.

Two, the decks that play serious removal have to get rid of your other creatures or tap out to interact which is when you can slip in a dancer and burn. Honestly, if it turns a single charm into blocker removal, it has done its job there. You are not the control deck in those matches.

Thanks. Some great thoughts.

I'm still pretty much a tactical player. My strategic thinking requires a lot of work.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:08 pm

[deck=MDU's Rw Aggro]Land 23
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Plain

Creatures 17
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Viashino Swiftblade
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Burn 20
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros Charm

Sideboard 15
1 Viashino Firstblade
2 Spark Trooper
4 Chained to the rocks
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Skullcrack[/deck]

#test

Stormbreath Dragon is quite good vs Gx, Ux, Wx and Rx
Viashino Firstblade is quite good vs UWx and Bx
Firedrinker Satyr is quite good vs UWx and Bx - it does a decent job at killing walls as well

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:21 pm

MDU, how do you feel about Oracle of Bones as SB tech vs control?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:24 pm

I think its HORRIBLE overpriced Viashino Swiftblade which is only somewhat decent with T // T except you only really want to cast T // T after a huge draw.

Are you switching to Rw over RB tyreal or just playing a little of both?

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:34 pm

I just want to find a use for my playset of Oracle of Bones haha

Sadly, I can only afford to play one deck at a time due to budget restrictions (paper magic is expensive woah). I'll stick with RB for now

Well I might be able to play 2 if AIR becomes a viable archetype again

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:34 pm

Yeah, I started off trying 4 oracle...then 3...then 2...1...none. Too magical christmas land. It probably wants to sit alongside draw spells to keep your hand fresh with broken spells.

MDU, gut instinct is to say your last version goes bigger which just weakens your control matchup without improving GR that much? Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't face GR on Game Day so I dodged a bullet. How is Stormbreath good against GR? I brought it in for GWx all the time but never would have thought to do so versus monsters.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Firedrinker Satyr is quickly becoming a much better card now that Gr and Jund Monsters is increasing in popularity. Nothing is more important than attacking through a Caryatid. Viashino Firstblade is also very good at this.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:19 pm

Seriously, it's only remaining bad game 1 matchup is the mirror.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:23 pm

The Dragons Fly and have Haste so it will ALWAYS deal at least 4 damage against Gr, if they don't have an answer (which is often) it will deal more.

Its also really difficult for UWx to deal with

Dies to Removal

Primer: R/w/x Aggro

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