Primer: R/w/x Aggro

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:47 pm

I would imagine that (despite what that article said) if you get a poor hand with AiR and don't close out the game early you'll lose against Control.

That list imo looks really good against Bx Devotion, but it'll falter against UWx based control decks if it stumbles a little (lack of Hammer but 3x Spark Troopers on 21 lands in that deck just looks so wrong...).

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:30 am

Yeah he needs another land or cut a trooper. Or have a mutavault in sideboard.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:38 am

Too bad

I might just end up running a variant of Tom Ross' new brew to attack the control meta at my FNM

, thanks anyway MDU!

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:46 am

Too bad

I might just end up running a variant of Tom Ross' new brew to attack the control meta at my FNM , thanks anyway MDU!

NP, when you say your planning on playing Tod Ross's new list are you referring too:

[deck]RG Boss[/deck]Creatures
2 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Fanatic of Xenagos
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Skylasher

Lands
2 Forest
9 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon

Spells
3 Madcap Skills
2 Giant Growth
4 Lightning Strike
4 Titan's Strength
2 Armed

Sideboard
2 Legion Loyalist
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Shock
2 Skullcrack
2 Domri Rade
2 Peak Eruption[/
deck]

If so, why do you believe its a huge improvement on Derek Decuir list? If anything its EVEN MORE ALL IN (which also means it can win even faster, but bad draws would hurt you even more)! at least with Derek list you get some CA with Phoenix and the odd chance of saving your team with Boros Charm.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:10 am

[deck] Boss Blitz[/deck]

I think I'd rather run Xenagos over Domri but this list feels a lot more streamlined and the vaults help with not overextending too much. It also plays like a combo deck which is super fun.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:37 am

Last Uploaded Set of Videos

Last list played 29/03/2014

Theory 1

List update based on earlier discussion in thread:

[deck=MDU's Rw Aggro (PBZ)]Land 23
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
3 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 16
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler

Enchantments 03
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burn 18
3 Shock
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning strike
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Sideboard 15
1 Boros Charm
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Mutavault
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear // Tear
1
Stormbreath Dragon
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Searing Blood
2 Blind Obedience
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

Upon thoroughly examining my SBP I found that the number of matches I don't board in YP$ are very low thus I decided to move the 4th one into the MU - 2x Skull MD is for threatening WLH and Gary so people don't freely cast them on me.

SBP

Bx Devotion

UWx Control

Burn

Ux Devotion

Grx Monster

Encase anyone in wondering why I have vaults in the SB rather then MD, its because I only have 3x 4cc spells thus I can afford to miss my curve a little (the 4x vault mainly comes into support the 5cc spells and keeping up mana to "counter" lifegain)

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:59 am

Fantastic post! I like the 'pre-boarded' approach, brings us kinda full circle back to Walter White!

REALLY appreciate the full SBing plan too

I'd be tempted to run Spark Trooper over SBD though I can completely understand your choice.

Vs Mono U - I'd prefer - 4 Cackler - 4 Ash - with YP tokens to stall up the ground, Tidebinder and Wierd Ash just seems really bad to me.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:04 pm

Fantastic post! I like the 'pre-boarded' approach, brings us kinda full circle back to Walter White! REALLY appreciate the full SBing plan too

I'd be tempted to run Spark Trooper over SBD though I can completely understand your choice.

Vs Mono U - I'd prefer - 4 Cackler - 4 Ash - with YP tokens to stall up the ground, Tidebinder and Wierd Ash just seems really bad to me.

Thanks, I'm running the SBD because I'm scared of kait's dreaded UW Control deck - if you don't care about UW Control, spark is better.

Longtoe · Postby **Longtoe** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:23 pm

In the SBD slot, I am trying chandra.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:26 pm

In the SBD slot, I am trying chandra.

I really like chandra. Pure card advantage (and the +1 ping can also be card advantage if it brings back a Phoenix).

montu · Postby **montu** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:00 pm

@MDU - With Bx Devo moving towards Lifebane Zombies, is Searing Blood a better MD choice?

It's not a totally dead card with Esper (as long as you don't win before Elspeth makes tokens).

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:22 pm

@Montu: Searing Blood is great, I don't see any problems which swapping 1 Skull and/or Charm and 1 Chains for it.

- - - - - -

Last Uploaded Set of Videos

Last list played 29/03/2014

Videos of the games played with Last list played 29/03/2014:

SE Report 6934201
G1 Uw Devotion vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6934201
G2 Esper Control vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6934201[/url:
3o1xdu32]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm4EhEentRQ]G3 Gr Monster vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6934201

I like the direction the meta is moving towards, it helps justify the creature set-up

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:06 pm

I'm leaning towards something like your PBZ build for the SCG Open in Milwaukee this weekend.

I've got to figure out the SB still.

One thing is I'm leaning towards Temple of Silence instead of Guildgates . . . they work well with Cacklers and BO, and I think scry is really important. (I'm not sure the right number . . . I've actually been testing 4x copies online) with more benefit than downside. (It also makes Toil//Trouble a more viable card.)

I'll get a list together with some videos in a day or two and solicit feedback.

Longtoe · Postby **Longtoe** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:53 pm

Of note, I would consider packing more wear/tear now that the stupid staff of death magus tech is out there.

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:57 pm

Of note, I would consider packing more wear/tear now that the stupid staff of death magus tech is out there.

Yup. And killing their Underworld Connections slows down their card advantage AND decreases their devotion.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:54 am

[deck=MDU's Rw Aggro]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Abandon

Creatures 11
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantment 2
2 Chained to the Rocks

Spells 24
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Wear/Tear
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
1 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

I 2-1 beating Todd Anderson, Bx Devotion and losing to hexproof.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:11 am

Someone played Down on me.... Someone played Down on me.... Someone played Down on me

I still 2-0 anyway but OMG someone is playing drown.... this better not be a tread which shut my archetype down before I even get started...

montu · Postby **montu** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:44 am

OMG . . . I just destroyed Jund Monsters in Match 1 of a DE.

G1 - I lost but it was close (each had 4 life, and I top-decked a Mountain but the next card was a WLH).

G2 - Blind Obedience really shined. I actually got 2 on the board, which shut down his Dragon (until I drew into a Mortars), and allowed me to drain his life. Peak Eruption sealed the deal.

G3 - Shocked his Mystic on T1, BO on T2, Chained his first Courser on T3 and the WLH the second Courser on T4. On T5 my singleton Anger of the Gods took out a Caryatid, Ooze, and Mystic. OUCH! I started taking him down with 1, then 2, then 3 Phoenix. He got a Bow on T8 which he used to alternatively kill Phoenixs and gain life, but I pulled a Wear/Tear on T10, chained his blocking Satyr token, and went in for the kill with a Phoenix and Mutavault. My ending life was 30.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:49 am

Can you share your list Montu?

Deck theory 2#

If your going to play Rw Aggro you need to run at least:

Creatures 15
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler

- - - - - - - -

From my testing with the above list which I made 2 Full Event finishes (with one against Bx Devotion which played Staff on T3 and 4 while I was on the draw), I notice Ash isn't enough for today Tier 1 meta game:

Vs
Bx Devotion: Ash is only strong 50% (on the play)
UWx Control: Ash is strong
Ux Devtoion: Ash is horrible
Grx Monster: Ash is horrible
Rw Burn: Ash is horrible

Based on this, I believe playing Zurm would be the superior choice (yay I'm crapping on my own deck design), however if you can run the "curve out" plan going T1 Cack/Drinkers, T2 Ash/Young, T3 Phoenix/Burn then the deck really shines (punishing do nothing cards like
staff, forcing burns on creatures from burn and just stomping on control).

montu · Postby **montu** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:33 pm

[deck=Crazy Man's Rw Aggro]Lands 23
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
3 Temple of Silence

Creatures 12
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantment 3
3 Chained to the Rocks

Spells 22
3 Shock
2 Titan's Strength
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood
3 Boros Charm
3 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
2 Peak Eruption
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Toil // Trouble
3 Wear // Tear
2 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

I lost M2 of the DE to Bx Devo. G1 I won easily. G2 he got Staff on the board. I kept up pretty well, but didn't get Wear/Tear until T14 (and then drew another T15). He also Devour Fleshed one of his Demons which kept him alive long enough to win. For G3, he got TWO Staffs on the board by T4. I had 2 Assembles in my opening hand. He Duressed the first. I missed T4 and T5 land drops. He Thougtseized the second Assemble. And that was that.

I really like having 2 Titan's Strength MB. It's good for some surprises, and the extra scry is super helpful. My favorite is pumping an Ash Zealot that's been targeted with a Searing Blood.

EDIT: Based on your Theory #2, I'm a weak creature deck and a weak burn deck. With 11 White sources, think I could get away with Soldier of Pantheon? Maybe if I cut Mutavault for another W source? Hmmm . . . just thinking out loud. (Drinker is probably a more viable source . . . but it can be such a bad choice against Burn and Jund Monsters.)

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:51 pm

If its any condolences your set-up is many time better then mine, Ash + Cack is better then just Ash and YP$.

Some points:
1) I think Titan's Strength is a tad weak with only 12 creatures (Pyrewild Shaman would be the better choice), along with 1x Toil // Trouble being oddly placed in an creature themed burn deck.
2) Do you see many Hexproof build during your timezone? 3 Wear // Tear is a fair number.
3) The rest seems fine

I'm still striving to create my own niche within this color spectrum (with anyone else willing to help me), I do believe with the lower number of sweepers being ran in Bx and the increase number of Control and burn players lying around we have an opportunity to create something to attack the meta.

Its just not easy when we have a local pyromaster pooling all the other red players into the Burn thread - I'll watch your videos (if your recording) and try and build something for tomorrow (which happens to be a free day for me

)

montu · Postby **montu** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:15 pm

If its any condolences your set-up is many time better then mine, Ash + Cack is better then just Ash and YP$.

Some points:
1) I think Titan's Strength is a tad weak with only 12 creatures (Pyrewild Shaman would be the better choice), along with 1x Toil // Trouble being oddly placed in an creature themed burn deck.
2) Do you see many Hexproof build during your timezone? 3 Wear // Tear is a fair number.
3) The rest seems fine

I'm still striving to create my own niche within this color spectrum (with anyone else willing to help me), I do believe with the lower number of sweepers being ran in Bx and the increase number of Control and burn players lying around we have
an opportunity to create something to attack the meta.

Its just not easy when we have a local pyromaster pooling all the other red players into the Burn thread - I'll watch your videos (if your recording) and try and build something for tomorrow (which happens to be a free day for me )

Comments:
1) Don't forget the Mutavaults. It's definitely not highly exploitable, but it does keep things interesting. It finds use 9 times out of 10. I like it better than Pyrewild because of the 1cc and the scry. Fair point about Toil/Trouble. I think I just got excited with the possibilities from Temple of Silence.
2) I see more Hexproof in the 8P/2P queues. I'm trying to avoid both.
3) It's pretty good. It matches my style and skill level and is fun. Bx Devo is still a bear. I'm not convinced that
Assemble is correct in the SB. I lost another game with it in my opening hand when Opp played Demon (Duressing Chained first), then Gary, Gary before I could get 5 lands on the board. It also sucked because I had Wear/Tear in hand, but he didn't play Staff. So it was a dead card. I dunno though, Assemble would have come in handy for my Match with the Staff on board that went to T15.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:55 pm

I second pyrewald over titan's strength. Titan's has some defensive uses that I just don't care about. I should have actually run it over chainwalker in hindsight.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 am

here are some videos running:

[deck=MDU's Rw Aggro]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Abandon

Creatures 11
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantment 2
2 Chained to the Rocks

Spells 24
2 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Wear/Tear
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
1 Assemble the Legion[/deck]

the music is actually quite funny/unique:

SE Report 6946239
G1 Br Devotion vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6946239
G2 RDW vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6946239[/url:
2mmk2lja]
[url=http://youtu.be/wNRBB69ue-o]G3 Bx Devotion vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6946239

G3, when my Opp. was on the play he casted Staff on T3 and 4....

montu · Postby **montu** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:56 pm

Thanks for sharing those. I got up at 4:30 am this morning thinking I'd hit the 5 am (my time) DE. DOH! Wednesday maintenance and no DEs! argh . . .

It's hard for me to get in a DE during the week. I'll see if I can't post my deck and strategy, with perhaps some videos from a couple of SE at least

To be very honest, I'm starting to feel very inadequate about the upcoming SCG Open.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:39 pm

MDU, how was the extra two scry lands doing for you? Also, match 1, game 2, I probably would have kept the mutavault on top at the end and drew it with Chandra rather than scry it down and ping 1.

montu · Postby **montu** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:50 pm

I play 4x Temple of Silence and don't think I'll change that. At first, there were a couple of "oops" moments, but I quickly learned how to play around them and the scry is awesome.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:43 pm

These brought back some happy Pyro memories

Deht · Postby **Deht** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm

Not sure what the spoiler policy is on here, but I saw the God of Victory card and immediately thought of R/W Aggro. All of my creatures are indestructible while attacking? Sure! All of my creatures can't be blocked unless by two or more creatures? Sounds good!

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:21 pm

It's a VERY good card, but there are a couple of things to consider.

1) We already have Chandra.
2) The devotion is a bit hard to get in the red card pool.

It's home seems to be in a white-heavy list. They have higher-quality creatures than red does and the REALLY good red cards like Chandra's Phoenix and Stormbreath Dragon already have evasion. White has access to cards like Precinct Captain and Brimaz which want the effect a lot more.

montu · Postby **montu** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:24 pm

Not sure what the spoiler policy is on here, but I saw the God of Victory card and immediately thought of R/W Aggro. All of my creatures are indestructible while attacking? Sure! All of my creatures can't be blocked unless by two or more creatures? Sounds good!

Cackler, Zealot, Reckoner, God of Victory. BAM!

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:36 pm

I'd rather go Soldier, Captain, Brimaz, Iroas honestly.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:12 pm

You can still play reckoner in a W/R shell if you want

I just think it's not very necessary... The synergy between Captain's trigger and the madcap skills effect also cannot be ignored

By the way, why don't we have a W/x primer yet? (I know zem dislikes white weenie strategies but still...)

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:17 pm

Because it's not a viable strategy in the current metagame. Iroas could push it over the top though, much like Xenagos and Courser did for GR.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:23 pm

"Because it's not a viable strategy in the current metagame. Iroas could push it over the top though, much like Xenagos and Courser did for Jund."

Fixed that one for ya

Well idk everyone kept saying WW sucked and then it started performing really well at tournaments last year once people figured out the black splash was actually quite insane. I don't really understand what those big meta changes are that are keeping it out atm.

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:31 pm

Because it sucks against Esper and MBD, unfortunately.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:36 pm

Ah, fair enough

I will probably try to get all the WR lands back again just in case W/R weenie becomes viable again. I might be able to run MDU's list in the meantime too

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 pm

"Because it's not a viable strategy in the current metagame. Iroas could push it over the top though, much like Xenagos and Courser did for Jund."

Fixed that one for ya

Well idk everyone kept saying WW sucked and then it started performing really well at tournaments last year once people figured out the black splash was actually quite insane. I don't really understand what those big meta changes are that are keeping it out atm.

To be fair, Jund was just a natural evolution of GR and actually built to counter GR strategies. I actually think GR is more favorable in the current meta having played both decks. GR just has an
ability to win out of nowhere.

The problem with white-heavy decks right now is that they just aren't as good as what the other colors are trying to do. They're easily countered by Esper and Mono Black strategies, overpowered by green strategies, and outmaneuvered by red strategies. If the meta shifts to be more creature-heavy it'd be a great place for white, but it plays too fairly right now to be a tier one or even tier two strategy.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:54 am

As some of you may know I'm swamped by RL so I haven't actually played a game in awhile.

Here are some videos which I shot awhile back:

[deck=MDU's Dancing Burns]Lands 22
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Burns 16
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm

Enchantments 02
2 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard 15
2 Warleader's Helix
3 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Viashino Firstblade[/deck]

Report SE 6876033
G1 Rw Burn vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6876033
G2 Esper Control vs Rw Aggro (MDU) SE 6876033
G3 Split

I don't think its that viable any more but its tons of fun, if you want to go the aggro route I suggest running the Ash + YP + Phoenixes plan with Cack in the SB.

or the All in plan:

[deck]sandydogmtg AiR[/deck]

Both sandydogmtg and Vedi wielded the list into excellent finishes - now I can't play that deck (much like how I can't play devotion) but if you want to turn creatures sideways that is a strong approach.

PirateKingAtomsk · Postby **PirateKingAtomsk** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:05 pm

I find the lack of dynacharges in air decks nowadays disturbing.

edit: to that end the second deck there is really rdw not air

Dies to Removal

Primer: R/w/x Aggro

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