Primer: R/w/x Aggro

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:19 pm

You have more experience with maindeck dragons so I'll defer.

Though I just figured out what was bothering me with the deck. Secret 58 card mainboard deck tech

!

Did you mean to put two other creatures back in there? I'd recommend going back to 4 firstblade or bringing in 2 skullcracks. Z's pushing the blind obedience sideboard if you want to try that. I'm not quite clear on when that's supposed to come in yet outside Gr. I assume black since it can also wall us?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:12 am

Whoops, hmmmm maybe 2x Ash Zealots or 2x Imposing Sovereignor 2x Spirit of the Labyrinth or 2 Gore-house chainwalker or Young Pyromancer or Soldier of the Pantheon wow... so many nice creatures to pick from

montu · Postby **montu** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:04 am

Whoops, hmmmm maybe 2x Ash Zealots or 2x Imposing Sovereignor 2x Spirit of the Labyrinth or 2 Gore-house chainwalker or Young Pyromancer or Soldier of the Pantheon wow... so many nice creatures to pick from

I'm not particularly keen on a 1 or 2 drop creature that contains a [mana]W[/mana].

You've got a 22% chance of not drawing a white mana source in your opening 7, and an 11% chance of not drawing into white your first 10 cards.

[card]
Imposing Sovereign[/card] might work though, since there's less need to get it on the board right away.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:23 am

Seems like decent odds, 77.8% chance of hitting white in your opening hand (on the play) with only 22.1% hitting the white creature in you opening hand.

That said, I decided on running 2x Ash in that slot

I'm actually on a magic break (sadly due to RL) so here are some old games when I ran this list (if I can play, I would play the the version with MD Dragons):

[deck=DtR's Rw Aggro]Land 23
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Plain

Creatures 16
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Viashino Swiftblade

Burn 21
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack

Sideboard 15
2 Spark Trooper
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chained to the rocks
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Boros Charm
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

[b:
16vagzup]Standard Elimination Report (Event 6821434)[/b]
Standard Elimination R1 Rw Aggro vs Bx Devotion Event 6821434
Standard Elimination R2 Rw Aggro vs Wb Weenies Event 6821434
Standard Elimination R3 Split

montu · Postby **montu** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:49 am

Seems like decent odds, 77.8% chance of hitting white in your opening hand (on the play) with only 22.1% hitting the white creature in you opening hand.

You're right, I was stupid.

I re-did the analysis . . . In your first 7, there's about a 9% chance you'll get a Sovereign but no white mana.

For your first 9 cards, you've got a 50% chance of getting an Imposing Sovereign AND at least one white mana source, with only a 6% chance of getting stuck with a Sovereign and no white mana.

Doesn't seem too risky.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:21 pm

Had a great FNM! I went 4-1, taking 4th place. My 12-year-old daughter stomped over her opponents with her White Weenie deck, also going 4-1 and taking 3rd place. (We both lost to the same person, a GW deck that took 1st.)

I decided to start with MDU's Rw Aggro build, with the following changes, adding a MB Ash Zealot for one less Mutavault. (I don't think that's the right choice.) In the SB, I added an extra Viashino Firstblade in place of a Boros Reckoner.

[deck=MDU's Rw Aggro]Land 22
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Plain

Creatures 18
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2
Viashino Firstblade
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Burn 20
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning strike
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros Charm

Sideboard 15
2 Viashino Firstblade
2 Spark Trooper
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Skullcrack[/deck]

Round 1 - Mono B - 2/1

Round 2 - GW - 0/2

Round 3 - B/U Control - 2/0

Round 4 - Bant Walkers - 2/1

Round 4 - RWB Control - 2/0

I had to mulligan 5 times (and should have taken 6 total) last night. That's why I'm thinking the build should have 3 Mutavault and 2 Ash Zealot. Really the only reason I played 2 Mutavault instead of 3 was so that my daughter could
have 2 in her White Weenie deck.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:55 pm

Where'd everyone go?

I decided to record a Standard Daily. (It's harder than it looks, trying to play and comment at the same time!) Anyway, the first 2 matches went well, but then I got stomped on by GR Monsters. The last match was a no-show, so at least I won some boosters.

Match 1 - B/x Devotion
Match 2 - BG (Check out the fun Firedancer trick here)
Match 3 - GR Mosters

I'm confident my play was sub-optimal, but I'd still welcome questions/comments.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:15 pm

Grats on both accounts (online and RL) I like the videos, and I agree commentating and playing takes practices. I think not killing the Courser with WLH was what cost you that game vs Grx Monsters (which was a shame because it was so darn close).

I'll try and be more active (in about 3 weeks) this month has been brutal (in terms of RL)

.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:39 pm

These are great Montu

Commentating is hard, which is why I've not done it yet! You've inspired me to give it a go though

montu · Postby **montu** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:55 am

When [card:3fma71c4]Flame-Wreathed Phoenix[/card:3fma71c4] enters the battlefield and you don't pay tribute, that trigger goes on the stack. If you respond to that trigger (say, with a [card:3fma71c4]Lightning Strike[/card:3fma71c4]) the Phoenix dies and does not return to it's owners hand. It's just one of those things you don't think about until it happens.

Also . . . when you have 2 [card:3fma71c4]Satyr Firedancer[/card:3fma71c4]s on the board, you can kill a [card:3fma71c4]Stormbreath Dragon[/card:3fma71c4] [i:3fma71c4]and[/i:3fma71c4] another */8 creature with a [card:3fma71c4]Magma Jet[/card:3fma71c4] and [card:3fma71c4]Searing Blood[/card:3fma71c4] combo. Good times!

(In my case it was a 5/5 creature, but there was 3 creature burn to spare.)

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:58 pm

Montu, after watching your videos and rereading this thread.

I'm starting to believe SBD is better suited for the SB would you agree?

montu · Postby **montu** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:34 pm

Montu, after watching your videos and rereading this thread.

I'm starting to believe SBD is better suited for the SB would you agree?

The build definitely feels like it is splitting the middle between burn and aggro. In particular, I don't like having only 2 Ash Zealot in the MB.

I would definitely consider this MB change:

-1 Plains
-2 Stormbreath Dragon

+2 Ash Zealot
+1 Viashino Firstblade

In the SB, I'd probably take out the remaining Viashino Firstblade and Spark Troopers, for 3 Dragons (or 2 Dragons and a Mountain?)

Here are a couple more videos. Nothing spectacular on my part. I was
fortunate my opps played poorly and had poor draws. (My mic wasn't working on the second video, which sucks because I was really trying to be thoughtful in my analysis!)

Rw Aggro - 2-Man-Queues - Match 01 - GW - Result 2-0
Rw Aggro - 2-Man-Queues - Match 02 - Mono B - Result 2-0

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:58 pm

Montu could you share your full list and SB plan? I would also like to know if you think going more creatures over burn is still the "correct" choice nowadays.

(Gonna see if I can convert Jund or Esper manabase into Dega again after MOCS1 is over.)

montu · Postby **montu** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:45 pm

I'll post the full list and SB plan in the next 24 hours. Got a project I have to get out of the way first.

I'm not good at assessing deck choices based on metagame, but I can share this observation. In many games, Satyr Firedancer acts as a burn multiplier, effectively increasing the number of burn spells in your deck. Because of that, there is some extra room for creatures without sacrificing reach with the burn spells. Having 4x Firedrinker, 4x Ash Zealot, and 4x Phoenix (and secondarily 4x Firstblade) gives a very nice ramp for early damage. If you can land a Firedancer, it lets you keep direct pressure on life total while also removing threats. (Even if you can't land a Firedancer, having 4x Charm and 4x Helix helps close things up if you can get early damage in with a good ramp.)

I'm going to give this build (again, I'll post details shortly) some serious run through to prep for the April 5 StarCity Open in
Milwaukee.

montu · Postby **montu** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:20 am

Hey, just something to think about . . . I swapped out my Firsblades for [card]Titan's Strength[/card].

It lowers the curve. It gives real ooomph out of the gate. The Scry 1 is helpful. And your opp will forever be scared sh*tless when you attack in with an untapped Mountain.

And here I beat MonoB with 2 land. lol

http://i.imgur.com/CyqdvZn.jpg

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:06 am

I've fought a Rw burn deck trying to abuse [card]Titan's Strength[/card]... I can't recommend it.

Unlike Blitz we're not running enough creatures thus more often then not we won't have enough opportunity to abuse the card (I do admit some games it would be great, but for the games where its not....).

montu · Postby **montu** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:07 am

I've fought a Rw burn deck trying to abuse [card]Titan's Strength[/card]... I can't recommend it.

Unlike Blitz we're not running enough creatures thus more often then not we won't have enough Opp. to abuse the card (I do admit come games it would be great, but for the games where its not....).

I'm going to have to say, after playing a number of matches, I did end up having it as a dead card at least a third of the time. It was particularly bad with 2 in hand and no creatures.

Guttler · Postby **Guttler** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:46 am

http://i.imgur.com/CyqdvZn.jpg

What program are you using to play magic?

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:08 am

That is the Beta cilent

montu · Postby **montu** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:40 am

Here's the decklist, I'll post the SB plan as soon as I can, although I think it's pretty straight forward.

[deck]Rw Aggro - Montu Down Under[/deck]

montu · Postby **montu** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:01 am

Hey . . . I'm not "in the game" enough to know what's going on with MTGO. Basically, I want to play the best matches possible. My understanding is that things change depending on MOCS timing, announcements, etc.

Would someone be willing to suggest the best way to test a deck in terms of strength of players and metagame? I've been playing 2-man queues. Is it better to play 8-player single elimination? Or is Standard Daily the best?

I'm assuming 8-man is better than 2-man since you play up in the 8-man. How much of a difference is between the three?

Thanks.

P.S. Should I try to get QPs if I can? (I know I sound like a noob, but hopefully I've provided enough value to the forum that I can ask a few basic questions now and then.)

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:07 am

Check into the DTR Clan thread Montu, the MTGO experts are in residence

SD or 8 mans are your best bet. SD are best for value (prize to entry fee balance) and testing. 8 mans are great for QP's and good value if you win often. They're also more flexible time wise. 2 mans aren't great value and quality of opps is lower generally than in 8 mans (grinders play them for QP as they are the quickest way to get them). QP's get you into MOCS which gives you bragging rights and the chance to win good stuff and get valuable promo cards - MDU is our MOCS expert

montu · Postby **montu** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:27 am

Check into the DTR Clan thread Montu, the MTGO experts are in residence

SD or 8 mans are your best bet. SD are best for value (prize to entry fee balance) and testing. 8 mans are great for QP's and good value if you win often. They're also more flexible time wise. 2 mans aren't great value and quality of opps is lower generally than in 8 mans (grinders play them for QP as they are the quickest way to get them). QP's get you into MOCS which gives you bragging rights and the chance to win good stuff and get valuable promo cards - MDU is our MOCS expert

Thanks. That pretty
much what I was looking for. Time flexibility is key for me, so I'll probably stick with 8-man as much as possible.

I just jumped onto an 8-man with zemanjaski. I won Match 1 (GW) and then lost to z the second match. It was CLOSE, going to game 3, with life point total 3 for him and 0 for me (and I had a Helix ready to play next turn). Super fun match. Anyway, I'll post those and another Match I won against Esper Midrange once they're uploaded.

montu · Postby **montu** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:14 am

Rw Aggro - 2MQ - Match 03 - Esper Midrange - Result 2-1

Rw Aggro - 8MQ - Match 04 - Selesnya Aggro - Result 2-1 (The Firedancer trick @2:45 was crushing!)

Rw Aggro - 8MQ - Match 05 - Rw Burn - Result 1-2 (Played a very close match against zemanjaski and his Rw Burn deck)

Edit: I'm just numbering my matches sequentially with this build, so, it was Match 5 with the deck, not from the 8-Man Queue, obviously.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:09 am

Enjoyed these Montu

Keep posting

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:26 pm

I wonder if its possible to play Rw Aggro again I really liked that list but Drowned scared it away - now that I played the meta more I'm starting to believe we may have overreacted.

montu · Postby **montu** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:55 pm

I wonder if its possible to play Rw Aggro again I really liked that list but Drowned scared it away - now that I played the meta more I'm starting to believe we may have overreacted.

I'm thinking it's solid. I like that it gets in early aggro damage but has plenty of late-game reach with the burn. The deck flexes really nicely without loss of potency.

As I mentioned before, I plan on taking the build to the Milwaukee SSG Open the first weekend in April.

I'm going to make a small modification for FNM tonight: -1 Mutavault and +1 Plains, and then swap the SB Plains for a Mountain. This is because I split my Mutavaults with my daughter's deck, but also because I've had too many games where I've been screwed for lack of [mana:
95ufny1f]W[/mana].

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:06 pm

What's your current deck? You want 20 R, 12-13 W, 13-14 mountains.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:51 pm

I wonder if its possible to play Rw Aggro again I really liked that list but Drowned scared it away - now that I played the meta more I'm starting to believe we may have overreacted.

Preliminary testing with my Rb aggro list has been promising. It's worth a serious look IMO.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:28 am

[deck=MDU's Dancing Burns]Lands 22
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 20
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Burns 16
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm

Enchantments 02
2 Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard 15
2 Warleader's Helix
3 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Viashino Firstblade[/deck]

I originally had 1x Lands and 4x WLH but I notice that Gr, Jund and Naya run enough mountains for me to LD thus I went with 3x PE.

....I proceed to go 3-0 beating Burn, Esper Control and Split - I did use PE on burn but it didn't feel very powerful (but that was because he wasn't having any issues hitting lands).

What do you lot think is 4x WLH and 1x Land is better then 2x WLH and 3x PE?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:40 am

It's very similar to a list that 4-0d a daily a few days ago except he was mono red. Glad to see it's working for you so far.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:43 am

It's very similar to a list that 4-0d a daily a few days ago except he was mono red. Glad to see it's working for you so far.

Link please - MonoR intrigues me, sometimes vaults and citpt lands make me rather upset....

EDIT: But then again Boros Charm is so good....

Thoughts on 4x WLH and 1x Land vs 2x WLH and 3x PE?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:07 am

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6848&d=239358

I don't think you want four Helix in your board. It can be rather mana intensive and that's not where your deck really wants to be. You'd rather play more efficient spells like Mizzium Mortars.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:41 pm

I had a great FNM, going 5-0. Here's what I played:

[deck]Rw Aggro - IRL Version[/deck]

Match 1 - Wg Aggro - 2-1

Match 2 - Wur Aggro - 2-1

Match 3 - Bg Devo - 2-1

Match 4 - BG Small

Match 5 - Junk Midrange - 2-0

I'm currently 15-3 with this build (plus or minus a few tweaks). Needless to say, I'm very happy with it.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:08 pm

Here's 3 games of an 8-player queue I played today. Went 3-0. Nothing particularly exciting.

Rw Aggro/Burn vs RB Pyro - Result 2-0 - Match 06
Rw Aggro/Burn vs Rw Burn - Result 2-1 - Match 07
Rw Aggro/Burn vs MonoB Aggro - Result 2-1 - Match 08

I'm now 18-3 with this deck.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:53 pm

Enjoyed these, you're getting better with the commentary too

montu · Postby **montu** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:02 pm

Enjoyed these, you're getting better with the commentary too

Thanks. The more I do this, the more I realize "talking it through" (i.e., commentary) is helpful with the thinking. It really either exposes the gaps in my thinking or demonstrates a well-thought-out plan.

I'm also finding it helps to be honest. (i.e., when I didn't expect things).

MDU set a pretty high bar.

LaZerBurn · Postby **LaZerBurn** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:44 pm

Enjoyed these, you're getting better with the commentary too
Thanks. The more I do this, the more I realize "talking it through" (i.e., commentary) is helpful with the thinking. It really either exposes the gaps in my thinking or demonstrates a well-thought-out plan.

I'm also finding it helps to be honest. (i.e., when I didn't expect things).

MDU set a pretty high bar.

I found commentating
surprisingly helpful too. MDU has set a high bar, he's a very good player. Did you see Z's? His commentary is incredibly in depth.

montu · Postby **montu** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:12 pm

I found commentating surprisingly helpful too. MDU has set a high bar, he's a very good player. Did you see Z's? His commentary is incredibly in depth.

No, I missed it. Is it in this thread?

Toddington · Postby **Toddington** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:16 pm

No, I missed it. Is it in this thread?

His CFB videos?

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... -rw-aggro/

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... d-rw-burn/

Also, nice vids montu.

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Primer: R/w/x Aggro

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