Dies to Removal

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:22 pm**

This guy is actually pretty awesome, and is different enough from the other commanders in his colors to actually build around. He's not really a tron commander like Uril, not really a utility commander like Mayeal, not necessarily a token puker like Hazezon...he's like a big toolbox of all of the things you would want to do with a Naya deck.

Clearly he wants to be played with some type of sac outlet, and in his colors they are plentiful.

List of Naya commanders for reference:

Hazezon Tamar
Uril, the Miststalker
Rith, the Awakener
Palladia-Mors
Johan
Jacques le Vert
[card:
1e1eltgk]Mayael the Anima[/card]

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:18 pm**

Yeah, he's cool. I don't think he's very good, but he's cool. I definitely do like that they're trying hard to give new angles for EDH deckbuilding instead of rehashing something that an older general already does.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:25 pm**

It's a pretty good take on "We know people aren't always looking for the most competitive angle, but rather the more crazy, fun ways to win." This certainly appeals to that demographic pretty well.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:27 pm**

Totally. I also really like that his first mode can be used as a combat trick. We don't see enough of those in EDH.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:30 pm**

Apparently Wizards left something off of the original print run, so...

Before you start dreaming of your Commander decks of tomorrow, we do have to note that Marath will be receiving errata upon release. The text "X can't be 0" was inadvertantly left off the card.

So the new Oracle text is:

Marath, Will of the Wild enters the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to the amount of mana spent to cast it.

X, Remove X +1/+1 counters from Marath: Choose one — Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature; or Marath deals X damage to target creature or player; or put an X/X green Elemental creature token onto the battlefield. X can’t be 0.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm**

Yeah, I saw that on MTGS. Anyone serious enough to brew a hardcore combo deck with this guy will know the errata, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:45 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:46 pm**

Just realized how boss this guy is with Tahngarth, Talruum Hero.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:48 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens

Free targeting effects could maybe have been ugly as well.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:53 pm**

When I saw it (before I saw the errata) I was like "Holy fucking Heroic."

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:17 pm**

When I saw it (before I saw the errata) I was like "Holy fucking Heroic."

heroic requires a spell to trigger.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:19 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens
Free targeting effects could maybe have been ugly as well.

I mean we already have free targetting with Shuko which unless you're playing some janky combo with Chepalid Illusionist sees no EDH play. and that's really limited to UB/x decks because of reanimation/dredge style decks so I don't think it would have been that useful in Naya colors.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:21 pm**

Ain't no Tamar like a Hazezon Tamar.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:41 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens
Free targeting effects could maybe have been ugly as well.
I mean we already have free targetting with Shuko which unless you're playing some janky combo with Chepalid Illusionist sees no EDH play. and that's really limited to UB/x decks because of reanimation/dredge style decks so I don't think it would have
been that useful in Naya colors.

Shuko?

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:51 pm**

http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/ ... seid=74415

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:55 pm**

http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/ ... seid=74415

Ah, ok found that, but couldn't figure out how it was relevant. I was thinking of some potential situation where you could gain something from repeated targeting of opponents or their creatures.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:59 pm**

you equip chephalid illusionist with shuko an infinite number of times to mill your entire library and then *do a thing or combination of things that make you win through graveyard resources*

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:01 pm**

Task Force Shuko Condemn Combo!!

There is also the en-Kor, most noteably Outrider en-Kor since he and Task Force are both Rebels, making this a pretty silly combo in Lin-Sivvi EDH decks.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:26 pm**

When I saw it (before I saw the errata) I was like "Holy fucking Heroic."
heroic requires a spell to trigger.

That's pretty gay. I haven't played much Theros limited (read: none) yet so idk what most of the cards do outside of the constructed playable ones, of which there is basically zero heroic cards.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:43 pm**

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:53 am**

Yay for Naya combo!

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:02 am**

If you could make 0/0 tokens, you would have the cleanest combo kill with purphorous.

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:33 am**

Pretty uninspiring

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:49 am**

Yeah, I think the errata was due to them realizing after the print run that being able to infinitely puke out dudes had some pretty format warping interactions. Not just with Purphoros, but I can imagine being able to Foster to your heart's content probably wins you the game pretty hard. Not to mention ANY anthem effect turns him into a GGmachine.

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:46 pm**

Infinite life off of ETB gain life cards (Soul Warden, et al), infinite damage off of Purphoros (et al?), infinite Blood Artist triggers in Legacy/decks where he's not a general.

Yeah, unerrata'd this card would basically be the most unfun ever.

Posted: **Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:05 pm**

There's infinite ammo for Goblin Sharpshooter too.

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:50 am**

basically the errata is 100% needed

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:56 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens

correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt that still not make a difference? i was under the impression any time a creature entered the battlefield or during play if its like was */0 it would die. So obviously you would need to make a 1/1 token at minimum. Its no difference than master of waves popping out 1/0 elemental tokens. they would die if not for his ability to give them +1/+1? im just curious, thanks for clearing it up for me!

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:03 pm**

They would die. But they still hit the battlefield, so they'll trigger anything relevent an infinite number of times. This causes problems if you also have an Essence Warden, Vicious Shadows, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Goblin Sharpshooter, Fecundity, Glorious Anthem... you get the idea.

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:13 pm**

at first I was like "hurr doesn't make a difference" then I read that it makes X/X tokens
correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt that still not make a difference? i was under the impression any time a creature entered the battlefield or during play if its like was */0 it would die. So obviously you would need to make a 1/1 token at minimum. Its no difference than master of waves popping out 1/0 elemental tokens. they would die if not for his ability to give them +1/+1? im just curious, thanks for clearing it up for me!

They enter the battlefield, triggers for ETBs go on the stack, state based actions check their toughness, they die, triggers for LTB go on the stack, they resolve.

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:14 pm**

that's probably not exactly how it itneracts with the stack but it's close

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:28 pm**

that's probably not exactly how it itneracts with the stack but it's close

No that's basically exactly how it works. State-based actions don't care about the stack, they just happen when priority is passed.

Posted: **Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:40 pm**

ahhh i see now, haha yeah that would be crazy lol.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:24 am**

earth craft and this guy makes me happy.

Dies to Removal

[CMD2013] Marath, Will of the Wild

[CMD2013] Marath, Will of the Wild