[Primer] Devotion Red

[Googims]

yup, he just updated his list with this post, looks good! he's going to a super IQ this weekend with this 75.

[Deck=ThoughtXRiot's Deck]
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
11 Mountain

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Firefist Striker
3 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Last Breath
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wear // Tear
2 Satyr Nyx-Smith
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/Deck]

[enmitee]

List for reference.

4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Ogre Battledriver
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Stormbreath Dragon

3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Mizzium Mortars

1 Temple of Malice
12 Mountain
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

SB:
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Charm
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Wear // Tear

Hey guys, been trying to get into the archetype and so far, I'm enjoying the nut draws of the list I'm playing. It's pretty much the carbon copy of the RW devotion that showed up on on the Max Point event at Hillside games. I really looked into the mono U and mono B match up. But I sort of tilted when I came up against a Selesnya MU. (If this is our easiest match up, sorry for being a dunce!) Here's the G/W from memory,
He had some Brimazes then sided in some Unflinching courages game 2. I really hard a hard time getting through the wurm tokens and brave the elements. I tilted on what SB. So i just went with putting all angers, chain to the rocks, and mizzium mortars. As I said, I'm really not sure how to SB against it.

[Jasper]

Figured I'd post the list I'm going to play in the local SCG IQ that's coming up this weekend to get a little feedback.

Old

---

[deck=]
Creatures 24
4x Rakdos Cackler
2x Legion Loyalist
4x Ash Zealot
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Firefist Striker
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Fanatic of Mogis

Spells 12
4x Lightning Strike
2x Madcap Skills
2x Dragon Mantle
2x Dynacharge
2x Volcanic Geyser

Muh girl 2
2x Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands 22
19x Mountain
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Sideboard
3x Skullcrack
3x Frostburn Weird
4x Mizzium Mortars
3x Magma Jet
1x Pithing Needle
1x Hammer of Purphoros
[/deck]

Edit: Made some changes.

[deck=Adjusted 2/19/14]
Creatures 24
4x Rakdos Cackler
2x Legion Loyalist
4x Ash Zealot
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Firefist Striker
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Fanatic of Mogis

Spells 10
4x Lightning Strike
2x Madcap Skills
2x
Skullcrack
1x Dynacharge
1x Mizzium Mortars

The best card in Standard 2
2x Chandra, Pyromaster

Hammertime 2
2x Hammer of Purphoros

Lands 22
19x Mountain
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Sideboard
2x Act of Treason
2x Volcanic Geyser
2x Burning Earth
2x Ember Swallower
1x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Frostburn Weird
2x Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

Eric Smith aka ThoughtXRiot current list and plans (stolen from Sally where Eric lives).

[deck]4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
10 Mountain

4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
1 Dreadbore
1 Slaughter Games
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dark Betrayal[/deck]

Vs. Monoblack:
+1 Hammer of Purphoros, +1 Ultimate Price, +1 Dreadbore, +1 Rakdos's Return, +2 Dark Betrayal
-4 Ash Zealot, -2 Mizzium Mortars

Vs. UWx Control:
+4 Thoughtseize, +1 Slaughter Games, +1 Hammer of Purphoros, +1 Rakdos's Return, +1 Erebos, God of the Dead, +1 Dreadbore
-2 Mizzium Mortars, -
2 Fanatic of Mogis, -4 Ash Zealot, -1 Boros Reckoner

This sideboarding can change. For example, against an Esper deck, you're going to want the Ash Zealots and a mix of Mortars and Dreadbore, rather than the fullset of Dreadbore, since their post-board creature plan usually involves Blood Baron of Vizkopa. Reckoner is terrible there while hasted threats are more important since they have a slower mana base. Similarly, if you know your opponent doesn't have a creature package in the sideboard (say it's in the elimination rounds of an SCG, or you've seen a lot of their deck in game 2), then I'd cut Reckoners for Zealots, and shave a couple Dreadbore as well for additional threats.

Vs. Monoblue:
+1 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Dreadbore, +2 Doom Blade, +1 Ultimate Price
-2 Rakdos's Return, -3 Ash Zealot

Vs. RG Monsters:
+1 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Dreadbore, +2 Doom Blade, +1 Ultimate Price
-4 Ash Zealot, -1 Rakdos's Return

I'm not sure if a Return or a Hammer should be cut here.

I've watch him
take two DE going 3-1 and Pedros has success with this brew

[Pedros]

Yeah had quite a good streak of games. 2*3-0, 2-1 and 1-1 in 8 man queue. Lost last game (1-1) to UB control when oponent had 2 life and I had purphoros on board and oponent without cards in hand. 5 mountains in a row made me lose ;/

[Jasper]

Went 4-2 at the SCG IQ today. Ended 15th out of 50, having a 1 point difference from 8th place. Feels pretty good, since it was my first competitive event. Lost in 3 to a MBD deck that I should have beat, but G1 I got mana screwed, and G3 I got mana flooded. Oh well, luck of the draw I guess.

I'll post a deck list if anyone asks, but it doesn't seem like anyone's all too interested.

Favorite win of the night: Against mono blue, turn 1 Cackler. Turn 2 swing 2. Turn 3 Fanatic of Mogis for 10. Turn 4 Volcanic Geyser for 5, saving 2 mana for his 2 Judges Familiars. Go to combat for lethal. Nykthos and BTE's are simply too much fun. Ended up losing the round in 3, because lel Mono Blue Devotion hardcounter.

[Jasper]

Favorite win of the night: Against mono blue, turn 1 Cackler. Turn 2 swing 2. Turn 3 Fanatic of Mogis for 10.

Feels like some steps were left out here.

Yeah, I was tired last night. His life total is written as:

20
18
This is either 8 or 18, handwriting is bad. 18 seems most likely
5
0

I'm trying to remember, and I think it had to have happened this way:

Turn 1 Land, Cackler
Turn 2 Land, swing Cackler
Turn 3 Land, Ash Zealot, no combat
Turn 4 BTE, BTE, Nykthos, tap Nykthos, Ash Zealot, Fanatic of Mogis for 10 damage, 2 remaining mana for Skullcrack.
Turn 5
Tap Nykthos, Use 7 mana for Volcanic Geyser, so 5 damage. He sacrifices 2 Judge's Familiars, and I had exactly 2 mana left in my pool.

This makes about the most sense to me. Nykthos and BTE interactions happened a couple times that morning. I got a turn 3 Chandra, Pyromaster when I was playing against MBD later in the day.

[TBuzzsaw]

With the heavy amount of UW Control and Mono B piloted by the best players in my meta, I've decided to make a small tweak to Erik's RB list and make it into Jund. Basically it replaces two Ash Zealot with Xenagos, the Reveler, and has two Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the sideboard in place of Hammer and the third Return.

I really like it in testing, and one of my favorite interactions is +1 Xenagos with [card]Rakdos's Return[/card].

I'm playing Tuesday, Thurs, FNM, and Game Day, so here's hoping for some good results.

[Pedros]

Looking forward to your testin TBuzz as I would like to take this deck to GamesDays this weekend.

I have positive win % vs black and UW, however lost some stupid games to flood when after SB I clean their hand + have purporos on board and cant finish a game couse I drew all lands. I might play hammer wrong -> vs black put it as fast as possible, vs UW delay it as much as possible.

[Deht]

Blind Obedience is really tough for Red/Black lists to beat. Seeing that Turn 2 or Turn 3 is really tough to come back from.

[LP, of the Fires]

TLDR version of Devotion Red vs. UW control:

1) You can't beat blind obedience...ever. So you should probably just scoop if they play it turn 2 and you have no enchantment removal.

2) Game 1 is very hard to win if ever you draw a dead spell since you need all your cards and they can easily 2-4-1 you.

3) You have 2 ways you can play the matchup depending on your draw: overload the Dspheres with multiple non-creature permanents, or overcommit the board forcing wrath, following up with stormbreath dragon.

4) white is better then black in this matchup cause wear/tear. I actually hate the idea of having thoughtseize in this type of deck.

If anyone cares, I earned 700 PW points and around 1k cash playing this deck in January so I sort of know what I'm talking about.

[Deht]

LP -- are you still running RW Devo?

[LP, of the Fires]

I haven't played much of the RB version, but that's mostly from playing a handful of games and deciding I just wasn't feeling it. It's also worth noting that me and Erik(inventor of the latter version and poster boy of the former) disagreed on some matchups hence him ditching white(he stopped because he felt UW was horrible, I stopped because I simply haven't been playing much standard and am on the fence about several decks I want to play).

Rakdos's return is powerful and all, but I prefer to minimize my non-permanents in devotion builds and most of the decks post board plans involve neutering a lot of devotion and morphing into a thoughtseize midrange deck, something I'm not to enthuised about. Granted, if the RG monsters matchup gets significantly better, then that's more incentive for black(dreadbore's really good), but overall, the sideboard looks much weaker then the white versions.

[Pedros]

So you would stick with a Rw plan or just abandon this deck?

[LP, of the Fires]

The only reason I stopped playing the deck was because I thought Bile BLight would be omnipresent and because I simply haven't been playing nearly as much magic as before. Since my deck is still very viable and the matchups haven't really changed, I maintain that RW devotion is still The Blade and I encourage you guys to cut fools if you have familiarity with the deck.

I'm also not discounting RB devotion as a viable deck since you yourself have experience with it Pedros and Erik seems to be enjoying it. I'm just saying personally, it's not what I'm interested in doing and I think the RW deck is better suited for beating control since your board plans don't wildly alter what your decks doing.

Hope this helped

For reference, the list I would use:

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros
Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars

2 Boros Guildgate
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
11 Mountain

Sideboard:
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Wear/Tear
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Revoke Existence
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Satyr-Nyx Smith
2 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

The Only real changes from what I was playing before are Elspeth>assemble since Assembles much worse vs. Mono-black and I've added Revoke Existence and Satyr Nyx smith to the board. The satyr is good vs. control since he's a self contained threat that can take over a game. Revoke is versatile in that I can bring it in vs. mono-blue because it hits thassa in addtion to bident and domestication as opposed to a card like wear/tear which is infinitely more narrow in scope. Maindeck revoke doesn't sound terrible as it also answers
courser of kruphix, Xenagod, and detention spheres. I could see swaping that for one of the chains. Finally, the anger of the gods in the board may not be necessary as aggro doesn't seem to be well represented at the moment, but the card is very good vs. the mono-blue decks of the world and I can see UW ephara aggro being a thing as 2 of my testing partners have fallen in love with the deck.

[Pedros]

Yeah Uw devo is amazing (you are talking about this version right?).

I like thoughtseizes in a sb, however you are right about the fact that they dont grant devotion. Same with Rakdos return and slaughter games. I miss a Chandra or 2 as a way to get card advantage.
How many non permanents would you play at a given time? Do you never get lover than some amount of devotion permanents when you sb? I saw Eric sb Zealots all the time (I agree they are quite bad, but...)

I like addition of Satyr Nix - Smith in sb, was looking for a shell for it. A solid upgrade vs control, however not so good vs control creature

[Crims0n]

The only reason I stopped playing the deck was because I thought Bile BLight would be omnipresent and because I simply haven't been playing nearly as much magic as before. Since my deck is still very viable and the matchups haven't really changed, I maintain that RW devotion is still The Blade and I encourage you guys to cut fools if you have familiarity with the deck.

I'm also not discounting RB devotion as a viable deck since you yourself have experience with it Pedros and Erik seems to be enjoying it. I'm just saying personally, it's not what I'm interested in doing and I think the RW deck is better suited for beating control since your board plans don't wildly alter what your decks doing.

Hope this helped

For reference, the list I would use:

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars

2 Boros Guildgate
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
11 Mountain

Sideboard:
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Wear/Tear
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Revoke Existence
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Satyr-Nyx Smith
2 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

The Only real changes from what I was playing before are Elspeth>assemble since Assembles much worse vs. Mono-black and I've added Revoke Existence and Satyr Nyx smith to the board. The satyr is good vs. control since he's a self contained threat that can take over a game. Revoke is versatile in that I can bring it in vs. mono-blue because it hits thassa in
addtion to bident and domestication as opposed to a card like wear/tear which is infinitely more narrow in scope. Maindeck revoke doesn't sound terrible as it also answers courser of kruphix, Xenagod, and detention spheres. I could see swaping that for one of the chains. Finally, the anger of the gods in the board may not be necessary as aggro doesn't seem to be well represented at the moment, but the card is very good vs. the mono-blue decks of the world and I can see UW ephara aggro being a thing as 2 of my testing partners have fallen in love with the deck.

totally agree. I've been using the maindeck revoke and it has been amazing. I would definitely use 1 in the main. I like R/W right now too, im glad the decks demise to BB/Drown was way overblown

[TBuzzsaw]

I forgot to report that I went 2-2 last night, beating UW control and GR Monsters, and losing to Mono B and MUD when both got their nut hands.

[Pedros]

Yeah Uw devo is amazing (you are talking about this version right?).

I like thoughtseizes in a sb, however you are right about the fact that they dont grant devotion. Same with Rakdos return and slaughter games. I miss a Chandra or 2 as a way to get card advantage.
How many non permanents would you play at a given time? Do you never get lover than some amount of devotion permanents when you sb? I saw Eric sb Zealots all the time (I agree they are quite bad, but...)

I like addition of Satyr Nix - Smith in sb, was looking for a shell for it. A solid upgrade vs control, however not so good vs control creature

LP could you respond somehow to this post? What changes would you make to make Rb devo better?

[LP, of the Fires]

I'll respond later sure Pedros.

[LP, of the Fires]

I do often side out a decent number of permanents in my devotion deck, but I'm usually bringing in hammers and Chandra's to balance it out and I'm often boarding out all the removal vs. control for different removal(glare gets around the archangel of thune plan while also answering Elspeth/Dsphere).

Thoughtseize is a great card, I just imagine it being awkward on the curve since the deck isn't that aggressive(more board control>combo). I like the white deck because I can just keep adding cards to the board(to a point) then get ahead on mana when they tap out for Dsphere which can screw them in so many ways when you consider the interactions between hammer/purphoros(there most likely dsphere targets) and the rest of our deck. I've had purphoros dsphered, then played a hammer, and glared the sphere to swing for 6 surprise damage. I had a mogis dsphere once which was awesome. I've had 2 weirds come back into play
turning on a Purphoros and dealing 10 total damage. Stuff like that.

Vs. Creature decks that are the same or faster speed then me, this deck and the black deck are mostly equal. You just become a board control deck and bring in a million removal spells then kill them with dragon or whatever.

I think one real significant matchup difference is that the black deck is slightly better vs. RG monsters I'd expect with more terrors and dreadbore being more versatile then chain(eats dragon and walkers...which they board some out?) while being significantly worse vs. Mono-blue game 1 with zero ways to kill master.

[Pedros]

I basicly Agree with everything u have said!

It isnt thoughtseize that brings me to black. It is Rakdos's return, the card I loved in ravnica standard.

I also bring Hammer vs uw, however I might not want 4 thoughtseizes vs control, would love to get some card advantage engines in chandra?

While I think MD is perfect (3 dreadbores / 2 mortars is enough for removal, 2 returns are perfect), I would love to refine sb. Could you help me doing so?

Cards that are perfetly fine:

1 Hammer
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Erebos (not ideal card draw, but upside of negting life gain matters)

Removal package:
2 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
1 Dreadbore
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Dark Betrayal

Dont know if as many is needed, however all of them are good in different matchups.

Distruption:
4 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Games

This is a only package I am not sure about. Games seems fine as a way to get rid of revelations, seizes
also seems fine, but here is where I need help. Those slots are for control, I see having some Chandras (to get CA with ereboses) but should I completely get rid of distruption?

[atatjacob1]

I am an avid supported of R/b devotion, just came back from going 11-4 at GP Melbourne with it, 34th with bad breakers. I think the deck is fine where it stands and it is absolutely insane against R/G or R/G/x monsters, it got to a point where I was relieved to see T2 Domri. I felt that my worst match-up during the weekend was Esper Humans. I also had problems with B/W, going 1-2 against it in matches, all of which went to game 3. I only played it once in the actual event but it was the only match I lost 0-2, I also lost 0-2 to it after going 3-0 in a Grinder on the previous day. I am doing some testing tonight for a weekend PTQ so I'll write up a new list for that (wanting to test Underworld Cerberus, it seems very good against Esper Control, B/W Midrange/Control and possibly but to a lesser extent Esper Humans). For reference here's the list that I played at the GP:

Maindeck:

4x Ash Zealot
4x Burning Tree-Emissary
n4x Boros Reckoner
4x Fanatic of Mogis
4x Frostburn Weird
2x Purphoros, God of the Forge
4x Stormbreath Dragon

1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Dreadbore
2x Hammer of Purphoros
2x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's return
1x Ultimate Price

4x Blood Crypt
11x Mountain
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Temple of Malice

Sideboard:
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
3x Dark Betrayal
3x Doom Blade
2x Dreadbore
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Ultimate Price

Cards that overperformed were Hammer of Purphoros and Chandra, Pyromaster. They were both insane and in a lot of games I would be dead without them. There was a point where I was flooding out and the only thing stoppin my opponent braving for lethal was my growing army of colourless golems. Chandra was always a good draw lategame and help me take down planeswalkers (killing Elspeth after her -3) and just letting me 'draw' two cards a turn. Underperformers were Erebos and
Rakdos's Return. I only boarded in Erebos once against control and never drew it so maybe my assessment of it is harsh. I still think I'll keep it in but only as a one of. Regarding Rakdos's Return, I just don't know. When it was good it was mainly just a fireball for eight off of some crazy nykthos draw which was going to win anyway. When I was behind I couldn't do it for enough to be impactful (I had x=3 and they had 5 cards in hand) although that could just be because I am very greedy, and always want to hit their whole hand. Either way, whether it's good and I'm not playing it right or it's just a bad card I think I'll drop it. I really think that it is insanely powerful but it never felt like something that could just wreck their hand and leave them out of the game. I don't feel comfortable playing it so it's coming out for now, not to mention my meta will mainly be G/R or Jund monsters, which I normally side it out against.

[Pedros]

Ok here is a deck I play on mtgo plus finished 2nd in GD:

[deck]
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return

10 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
3 Rakdos Guildgate

Sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Ultimate Price
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Slaughter Games
1 Dreadbore
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Fated Conflagration
[/deck]

About SB - with Lazer we were brainstorming how to make good sb for this deck. Orginally it run 4 seizes however I like drawing 1 but dont like to topdeck it, so we decided it is best to get only 2.

SB divided by:

Discard suite: 2 Thoughtseizes, 1 Slaughter Games,1 Sire of Insanity, 1
Rakdos's Return
Card Advantage suite: 1 Erebos, 1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Removal suite: 1 Fated Conflagration, 2 Dark Betrayals, 1 Dreadbore, 1 Ultimate Price, 2 Doomblade
Additional devotion / creatures: Hammer of Purphoros

Why Fated Conflagration? Originally it was Mizzium mortars, however mortars doesnt kill reaper of the wilds and polukranos and doesnt kill obzedat.

What to imrove?

Because Zeman and some guys in Premier / SCG Open did good with burn and naya hexproof, I need to upgrade those matchups, however dont know how really.

Vs both I need lifegain, however only lifegane in this colors is in Whip of Erebos (which is hard to cast with 11 black sources). Anger is good however it only solves hexproof problem + doesnt work if creature is already enchanted.

Right now I am just going to stop interacting with them and go all in on combo + Rakdos's Return to strip their of cards. Vs Hexproof I also bring Thoughtseizes to get creature (if only 1) or lifegain enchantments.

[Purp]

I faced both RB Devo and Rw devo last night on Modo with Burn and was able to beat them pretty easily. I think RW Devo has a better chance against burn because of Glare of Heresy and Revoke existence. Blind Obediance really shuts this deck down, and I don't see a way for black to deal with it.

[Pedros]

I dont really get how BO shuts this deck down.

And you really think sb in revoke existence or glare of heresy is correct vs burn? Imo even with white I would never sb it in. It hits only 1 target.

[Purp]

BO locks out Hammer, SBD and Ash verse burn deck. Allowing plenty of time to A) kill or B) Kill your dudes and kill you.

Destroying a Chains on your reckoner is pretty backbreaking for Burn, especially when trying to play around with a Firedancer

[LP, of the Fires]

Blind obediance is a permanet timewalk. Every time your ash zealot comes into play tapped, its a goblin piker. Stormbreath dragon without haste is an unplayable magic card. In long games the lifegain becomes relevant.

[Pedros]

Ok played 2 8 man with my new tweeked deck (cut land and moved chandra to md, play whip in sb over it)

Played:

2 * Naya Hexproof
1 * Jund Monsters
3 * Red Burn (2*Rw, 1*mono red)

went 6-0, my 1st opp in finals is scouting our forum and said might post something to contribute

Overall I hate those matchups,but they are winnable. Not many thing can beat turn 3 purphoros followed by turn 4 dragon attack for 15.

[LaZerBurn]

Well done!

[LP, of the Fires]

Ok played 2 8 man with my new tweeked deck (cut land and moved chandra to md, play whip in sb over it)

Played:

2 * Naya Hexproof
1 * Jund Monsters
3 * Red Burn (2*Rw, 1*mono red)

went 6-0, my 1st opp in finals is scouting our forum and said might post something to contribute

Overall I hate those matchups,but they are winnable. Not many thing can beat turn 3 purphoros followed by turn 4 dragon attack for 15.

I'm glad someone else knows just how broken this deck is.

[Jasper]

Finally got my internet working again. Living in the middle of no where blows.

Anyways, just wanted to chime in and mention that I took 2nd place at my Gameday with Rb Devotion. Lost in the finals to RG monsters. I only had around 90 seconds to put the deck together at the store since I was running late, but it worked well given what I had on hand.

Moving forward, I think I'm going to use Pedros list as a starting point, but I will definitely be running 2 Chandra, Pyromaster mainboard. She was essential on Gameday, and she's been amazing in testing. I just can't see myself playing red without her in the main, unless I'm playing AIR. I'll also be cutting the Thoughtseizes. To run the Thighs in the main, I've moved one Mizzium Mortar out of the main and into the side, and I've removed 1 Mountain.

My current side is:

[deck]
1x Erebos, God of the
Dead
1x Sire of Insanity
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
1x Fated Conflagration
1x Ultimate Price
1x Dreadbore
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Slaughter Games
2x Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

[Jasper]

What does everyone think of Fated Conflagration vs Mizzium Mortars? They fulfill a similar role. FC hits more things, and is Instant speed, whereas MM can be Overloaded. I was thinking later today that FC may just be better for us, given that it lets Ash Zealot trade with nearly everything, and you can cast FC targeting your own Boros Reckoner as a finisher. It also deals with Archangel when they gain life after casting her, and kills Obzedat as well. The more I think about it, the more I like it over the Mortars.

[always be closing]

Good points jasper, but for hte sake of argument, the 4cc hurts a bit, and we have dark betrayals as an instant speed answer for obzedat already(although more never hurts). I think the biggest thing is, I am rarely ever passing turn with 4 mana open.

[Link]

Mortars isnt the same role as FC.

Mortars is for overloading earlier than should be allowed because of Nkyhos, and completely wrecking White weenies mono blue devotion and the mirrotr match sometimes.


I think FC is more for a pyromancer controllingish red type build. If you can fit them in your SB its great, especially for dealing with Jace out of control which this deck can sometimes struggle with if you dont have devotion for fanatic,

I'm just saying that mortars can't be replaced by FC is all

[Jasper]

I see. Sounds good.

Next question. Has the time come for Five-Alarm Fire to make its debut? It adds 2 devotion, and can get counters from Reckoner, Purphoros, Fanatic, and Stormbreaths Monstrosity. On paper, it looks like it will be a 3cc Lava Axe that gives devotion.

Edit: NEVERMIND I am a retard.

[Alex]

So I was playing Pyroblack a few days ago in a grinder, and this dude seems to be playing a pretty stock mono red devotion list. Then, in game 2, out of nowhere, this motherfucker slams [card]Shiv's Embrace[/card] on a Frostburn Weird. I stopped for a moment, thinking to myself "Is this card even in the format...?"

Lo and behold, I lost horribly to it. Turns out it is incredibly hard to profitably kill something with such a huge ass in a deck with mostly damage-based removal. In game three he did the same thing on a Reckoner. Thankfully I had the Dreadbore this time, but had I not, I can't imagine I would have won that game either.

Seems like real technology. Thoughts?

[Jasper]

Unsure. Is Red Devo dead now?

I'm having a really hard time beating control decks right now. Seems the D Sphere and counter spells are just shitting on me. I try my best not to over-extend, but with so much damn removal and counterspells I just can't seem to get a board presence.

I'm seriously considering running 2-3 Burning Earth in my Rb Devotion sideboard to deal with control. I want to put a clock on them, and it seems like taking a few damage myself in the process isn't too bad.

I've been experimenting with ways to tune my deck to be more aggressive, but I just can't figure it out.

[deck]
Creatures 26
4x Ash Zealot
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Frostburn Weird
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Fanatic of Mogis
2x Purphoros, God of the Forge
4x Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 5
3x Dreadbore
2x Mizzium Mortars

Enchantment 2
2x Hammer of Purphoros

Best card in Standard 2
2x Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands
25
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Blood Crypt
4x Temple of Malice
3x Rakdos Guildgate
10x Mountain

Sideboard 15
4x Skullcrack
2x Doom Blade
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Searing Blood
2x Toil // Trouble
1x Slaughter Games
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Dreadbore
[/deck]


I have also experimented with 4 [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] instead of the Frostburn Weirds, and that seemed to leave my level 2 plays too limited. Sideboard has been switching around, and I find Skullcrack to be much more useful than the Erebos, Whip, extra Slaughter Games and RReturn I was running before. It just seems like I have too much control in my meta, and either nothing I play resolves, or it doesn't stick around after I pass the turn. I'm almost resorting to running Rakdos Shred-Freak just because of the haste. Also, Mizzium Mortars has been absolutely dead for me for the past 16 or so games, except for the one time I used it to burn a Firedrinker Satyr.

What changes
can I make to improve the control matchup? I seem to be super favored against most other Aggro decks, barring GR since that's dependent on me drawing removal. Is the answer to simply switch into Haste mode? Drop the Weirds for Shred-Freaks? Drop the Reckoners for Phoenixes? Obviously [card]Rakdos's Return[/card] is great, but it seems like 75% of the time it just gets countered anyhow. Also, the Hammers have been under-performing. I've been feeling myself wishing I had more Slaughter Games to increase the odds of snatching D Spheres. I haven't been seeing enough Black lately to side in the Dark Betrayals, but even then, is it even necessary against Mono Black, where I already feel favored?



I'll be checking in on this thread in the morning before my SCG IQ. If there are no responses, I'll probably just start swapping in Haste creatures, dropping the Mortars, Hammers, and Betrayals, and adding in more Slaughter Games and Rakdos Returns. I also think I'm going to replace 1-2
Guildgates with Mountains, because it's a huge pain in the ass to not be able to play a 2-drop on turn 2 due to the 7 taplands + 4 colorless lands.

Edit: Or maybe the key is to run 3 Burning Earth, with 3 Hammers. This way, I say screw it and turn all my nonbasic lands into 3/3 Golems...

[Pedros]

I played a lot with Rb devotion past 2 weeks, and would say I have very good win % vs UW control (including beating Keit twice).

[deck]4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon

2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return

9 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
3 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Ultimate Price
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Slaughter Games
1 Dreadbore
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

Deck works very good, and here is how to make UW favorable:

a) dont overextend (except you see they are using last breaths and azorius charms and detention spheres on creatures)
b) overload them with
hard to remove permanents like hammer, chandra, erebos, purporos.
c) never cast Stormbreath dragon before supreme verdict / elspeth. Use it as a 1-2 punch with 4 and then 7+ damage. Remember you can redirect damage to planeswalker to finish them of.
d) try not to cast same creatures if one is on board. If you have multiple BTE dont just put everyone into play, play 1 and do your other things. If possible store bte when you have purporos on board or if you have hammer. NEVER cast bte if you can go turn 3 BTE into hammer.
e) you dont need to cast rakdos's return for full hand, however it is preferable. Never cast it when they have open mana. Best use of it is after they put planeswalker on board to blow up planeswalker and their hand.
f) use fated conflagration on your own turn if possible, scry 2 is very important in this matchup.
g) try to play around fated intervention and quicken + spreme verdict. Never play 2nd dragon even if it is lethal.
h) If you have slaughter games play them to name sphinx's
revelation when they are tapped out.
i) same with erebos, other than that play him when you have 2 mana open to draw a card. If you have no board try to play something else previously.
j) If u have 2 nykthos and a hammer, try to calculate your mana usage to float mana, use hammer on nythos before playing other nykthos. You gain free golem, even when you have to play worse threat it is worth it.
k) I suggest naming sphinx's revelation every time with slaughter games. If you have thoughtseize and slaughter games i would take removal/elspeth.
l) Use purporos firebreathing ability as much as possible. Remember you can protect creatures from last breaths with it.
m) If you attack intolifelink creatures remember you can kill your own creature (like frostborn weird) before damage. It makes them not gain life.

Ok now sb guide:

VS UWx Control:

+1 Sire of Insanity
+1 Rakdos's Return
+1 Slaughter Games
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Dreadbore
+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Hammer
+1 Erebos

-4 Frostborn weird (
Most people prefer to sb out ash zealots not weirds vs uw control to kill jace easier, however I am not in this camp)
-2 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Boros Reckoner
-1 Fanatic of Mogis
-1 Fanatic of Mogis/Boros Reckoner (I preffer fanatic on a draw (can kill jace)) but reckoner on a play(have 1 swing / possible bigger mana to blow up the world before verdict))

Worst matchup is hexproof and burn, I may say it is bad but I still have >50% win percentage vs them.

As for hexproof / burn matchups. You have to race them, it can be done. Our deck goldfishes around turn 4, and burn cant kill you before that turn. Try to play as much as possible around searing blood, never pump weird to 3/2, if they have mana open and attack with zealot into weird dont block if you suspect they have searing blood. Dont animate Purporos before attacking with it as they run chain to the rocks.

Basicly my plan for this decks is to be as fast as possible. SB out close to all of your removal (usually have only 2 doom blades to kill
firstblade / spark trooper / firedrinker satyr), get everything to be as quick as possible including SB IN ADITIONAL RAKDOS'S RETURN. It is not intuicial, however they are somehow a combo deck. If you make them discard 2 or 3 cards then they are done and have high posibility of not being able to kill you.

AS for your deck I dont see why would you want skullcracks/searing blods and toil trouble.

[Jasper]

Skullcrack for control, Toil // Trouble for control, Searing Blood was an experiment to deal with Blood Baron/small aggro, but I never had to deal with it. I've won so many games off of Trouble and Skullcrack that I naturally favor them, and its even decent for card advantage that the deck seems to lack. Nothing in the world feels better than doing Trouble on turn 3 for 5~ damage.

Skullcracks inclusion was also because I didn't find much use in the single Erebos. When I wanted him, I never saw him. Not to mention, even if he does manage to come out, he'll just get D Sphered anyway.

I do like your advice in general though. I'm going to take another look at Sire of Insanity. I really want him to work. I'll also pick up some more Rakdos's Return. Searing Blood is definitely out for now. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable moving back down to 24 land, as I had loads of mana issues. 25 seems to be better for me and my
terrible luck.


I thank you for the advice and guide Pedros. You're the man. I'll report back later today after the IQ.