Sharking
Moderator: Khaospawn
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
and don't get me wrong, we've all been in the position to trade 3 rares for a peak-value foil primeval titan and just shaken the other guy's hand and walked away. what i'm saying, though, is that those types of trades should be your outlier rather than your goal every time you open up someone's binder. you want the person you're trading with to feel satisfied rather than violated. this is true in life in general as it is in exchanging magic cards for other magic cards or money.
-
- Regular Member
- Posts: 334
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:47 am
Pretty much exaclty what thrillho said.
I used to shark the shit out of people and make a ton, but it savaged our group and frankly people stop trading with you after a time.
One of my favorite tricks was to arrange a massive stack of cards we each wanted from each other and then pull three cards from my stack and one from hist and tell him to choose. I gave them the illusion of choice and taded so many dollar rares for ten dollar cards it wasnt even funny.
Hopefully anyone trying to avoid this can watch for that trick now, I imagine most of the sharks already know of this trick. All I have to say to you is please stay away from my playgroups![:-) :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
I used to shark the shit out of people and make a ton, but it savaged our group and frankly people stop trading with you after a time.
One of my favorite tricks was to arrange a massive stack of cards we each wanted from each other and then pull three cards from my stack and one from hist and tell him to choose. I gave them the illusion of choice and taded so many dollar rares for ten dollar cards it wasnt even funny.
Hopefully anyone trying to avoid this can watch for that trick now, I imagine most of the sharks already know of this trick. All I have to say to you is please stay away from my playgroups
![:-) :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
-
- Newcomer
- Posts: 14
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:14 pm
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
When you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
I'm not trying to justify being an asshole, I'm just making a point that we've all been in that position and more often than not there is at least one time where we let the greed get the better of us and conduct a slimy deal for profit and hope that we won't get caught being complete scumbags. But don't lie to yourself by lying to me saying you are not a scumbag in that situation.
- Alex
- Not Even MAD
- Posts: 4236
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 pm
Value is subjective though. There are a lot of different levels of players. Finding casuals that are simply interested in bulk rares shouldn't make youWhen you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade
feel bad, especially if you're giving them the better part of a new deck they're working on.
Example: There's a store near my house that is mostly board and tabletop games, not really big into CCGs. They have some people there who play Magic pretty casually. One day I showed up with my bulk box and found these two guys who were working on some bad tribal decks (sphinx and cats I think?) so the bulk box, to them at least, was a goldmine. I traded one guy like 12 bulk rare sphinx's for a foil Boros Reckoner, and the other guy I traded a set of Door of Destinies for a Dark Confidant. Was it a balanced trade? Clearly not. But those guys got what they wanted, and the value of not having to find these "cool" cards on their own outweighed monetary value. Everyone in all parties is going to actually play with those cards, so no bad feels. (Although I have yet to find the last Bob I need, so...not quite yet.)
- Yannaria
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 7231
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:56 pm
- Location: The South in the North
But that is sharking.nValue is subjective though. There are a lot of different levels of players. Finding casuals that are simply interested in bulk rares shouldn't make you feel bad, especially if you're giving them the better part of a new deck they're working on.When you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade
Example: There's a store near my house that is mostly board and tabletop games, not really big into CCGs. They have some people there who play Magic pretty casually. One day I showed up with my bulk box and found these two guys who were working on some bad tribal decks (sphinx and cats I think?) so the bulk box, to them at least, was a goldmine. I traded one guy like 12 bulk rare sphinx's for a foil Boros Reckoner, and the other guy I traded a set of Door of Destinies for a Dark Confidant. Was it a balanced trade? Clearly not. But those guys got what they wanted, and the value of not having to find these "cool" cards on their own outweighed monetary value. Everyone in all parties is going to actually play with those cards, so no bad feels.
(Although I have yet to find the last Bob I need, so...not quite yet.)
If you intentionally don't tell someone the value then you are sharking them.
If you tell them "hey, that Dark Confidant you have is worth 70 dollars" and they still only want four Doors, sure whatever. But if you pull that out, and they pull out the doors and they ask you if that's fin,e you are intentionally sharking and basically an asshole.
I generally make trades perfectly even, and like Thrillho, make out like a bandit when my shit goes up.
Hellrider is a great example, I bought two playsets, and traded for 2 more playsets and they went dumb.
- Alex
- Not Even MAD
- Posts: 4236
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 pm
I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.
- Yannaria
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 7231
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:56 pm
- Location: The South in the North
so you're sharking them.I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.
There is an objective value of worth for magic cards.
like I don't have a problem with trading a kid 20 bulk rares for a snapcaster mage, but I always let them know so a reputation doesn't get around that I'm a total scumbag when it comes to trades
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
- Alex
- Not Even MAD
- Posts: 4236
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 pm
so you're sharking them.I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.
There is an objective value of worth for magic cards.
like I don't have a problem with trading a kid 20 bulk rares for a snapcaster mage, but I always let them know so a reputation doesn't get around that I'm a total scumbag when it comes to trades[/
quote]
I mean, it's not like I said "You can only take this much," they took as much as they wanted and were on their merry way.I roll through that store about once a month and pick up a couple of cards here and there (they don't have a lot of value cards, but they're awesome if you're looking for cards that are out of print) and help them build decks and stuff. I also tend to leave bulk commons and uncommons with them for free.
They're board gamers, these cards don't have the same value to them as they do to someone like me. I'm pretty sure if they cared about the monetary value they'd use their phones, it isn't like I've ever stopped them or talk them out of doing so.
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
You are literally being a parasite to their ignorance of current fiscal values purely for your own profit and advancement. You know the cards you're offering are priced adventageously to their own and you do nothing to balance that, not even saying "hey the cards you want are nowhere near what I have value wise do you want to take some more cards so the trade is more even?"
I'm not even saying you have to lay down a card by card value breakdown, but your example doesn't even show a token effort at not literally robbing these people. That's scum behavior, and by extension makes you a scumbag.
I'm not even saying you have to lay down a card by card value breakdown, but your example doesn't even show a token effort at not literally robbing these people. That's scum behavior, and by extension makes you a scumbag.
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
- Alex
- Not Even MAD
- Posts: 4236
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 pm
So what? The crux of your argument is that it creates bad feels, but I've been going to this store for the better part of a year and nobody has any issues. If they're not comfortable trading with me they don't have to, but thus far nobody has ever refused since these guys value the cards not just based on their monetary values.I just explained why what you're doing means you are an asshole. You're doing the magic card equivalent of trading the island of Manhattan for some turquoise beads.
- imopen2
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 6066
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:59 am
I think the issue of morality when it comes to something like trading pieces of colorful cardboard is quite interesting. I personally don't trade magic cards anymore because I was tired of spending my time and being offered shark trade after shark trade, and while I have had my fair share of crap rares for fetches stories, I also stopped trying to rip people when I was 15.
People have different concepts of what is moral. To Alex the idea is that if everyone gets what they want then the trade is moral. To kijin, this is underhanded when one side is clearly making away with a huge profit.
I remember I used to go to a store when I was between 13-16 that was primarily a sports card store but also sold magic cards and other collectables. They had no idea how to price magic cards and mainly used Scry magazine. Once they bought a huge collection from a dude with power and old duals etc and they took out the best cards,
throwing the "crap" in a pile for 10 cents a piece. My busy went through that huge pile and bought a foreign chains of Mephistopheles and 40 demonic tutors (some of them beta). Now that was a huge sharking...but it was of a store. They should know better, right? I always thought about that. They rip their customers off all the time, right?
Idk
People have different concepts of what is moral. To Alex the idea is that if everyone gets what they want then the trade is moral. To kijin, this is underhanded when one side is clearly making away with a huge profit.
I remember I used to go to a store when I was between 13-16 that was primarily a sports card store but also sold magic cards and other collectables. They had no idea how to price magic cards and mainly used Scry magazine. Once they bought a huge collection from a dude with power and old duals etc and they took out the best cards,
throwing the "crap" in a pile for 10 cents a piece. My busy went through that huge pile and bought a foreign chains of Mephistopheles and 40 demonic tutors (some of them beta). Now that was a huge sharking...but it was of a store. They should know better, right? I always thought about that. They rip their customers off all the time, right?
Idk
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!
- Stardust
- Oozes fabulousness!!!
- Posts: 6040
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:56 pm
Stores don't rip customers off. They charge a fee for convenience. Don't hate stores just because they sometimes charge more than SCG or sell their FTV's above MSRP. They need to make a profit and you get the product you're looking for without spending an hour seaching online for a better price. Of course, you get the odd store selling mapped packs or whatever, but that's a different story.
As for ripping stores off by finding gems, they at least made their money back on that purchase. If the store didn't know the value of the 40 Demonic Tutors, the store obviously didn't pay the guy more for them - they would have paid for the stuff they actually put on sale (which hopefully would have sold for a profit). The person who really got ripped off was the guy selling his collection.
As for ripping stores off by finding gems, they at least made their money back on that purchase. If the store didn't know the value of the 40 Demonic Tutors, the store obviously didn't pay the guy more for them - they would have paid for the stuff they actually put on sale (which hopefully would have sold for a profit). The person who really got ripped off was the guy selling his collection.
҉
- imopen2
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 6066
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:59 am
So...stores DO rip people off?The person who really got ripped off was the guy selling his collection.
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!
- Col. Khaddafi
- Regular Scumbag
- Posts: 9956
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:52 pm
- Location: Manasjap madness
- Mogadishu Jones
- The Superfluous Man
- Posts: 6166
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:52 pm
- Checkbox
- Tryhard of the Year 2012
- Posts: 6355
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:08 pm
- Location: Rochester, NY
- Checkbox
- Tryhard of the Year 2012
- Posts: 6355
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:08 pm
- Location: Rochester, NY
- Mogadishu Jones
- The Superfluous Man
- Posts: 6166
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:52 pm
- Yannaria
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 7231
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:56 pm
- Location: The South in the North
- Thrillho
- A clever, smart boy
- Posts: 14021
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am
- Contact:
my friend left one in his backpack and then threw it out when it got all wrinkled. i sold one for $0.50 because i didn't play formats it was legal in and neither did anyone else because no one even know what legacy was then and they would buy any of your promo cards for $0.50.I once through 5 dci stps in the garbage.
Shark that bitches, fuck your cardboard.
- Captain Murphy
- The highest high, I'm Ayatollah
- Posts: 5219
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:55 pm
- Location: Nilbog St
When I played magic I was in my early teens and my local area had the one game store and no other store for 2 hours away, so if I ever pulled something good (or traded for good cards at big tournaments 3 hours away) everyone else who wanted it would "shark" each other to trade for it.
Big demand, low supply will make neckbeards fight each other for your cardboard with more cardboard.
Big demand, low supply will make neckbeards fight each other for your cardboard with more cardboard.
It's too bad we don't have a secret subforum where we can coordinate troll attempts where only we can see so that we don't have to catch on because only one of us is an actual rocket scientist.
I am particularly interested in committing internet genocide
in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you
- Alex
- Not Even MAD
- Posts: 4236
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 pm
- DarthStabber
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 1336
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:39 am
I have a hard time forcing myself not to be the M:tG SEC. I will unabashedly use tcgplayer on my phone to ensure that the trade is on the up and up. Sometimes I will overoffer for something not valuable, but difficult to find, and if someone wants to overoffer me I won't be able to sleep at night unless they do it with informed consent, and even then I will give them a couple foil commons or uncommons. I have no issue pulling any sort of mind games during play, but I for some reason don't like the idea of people getting screwed over in trades.
![Image](http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/endlessupkeep/darth2_zps4058cd82.jpg)
thanks to nbw for the sig.
You do need to try to gay it up a little more.
You're like the least gay member of this clan.
And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.
- fadedblue
- Newcomer
- Posts: 20
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:53 pm
- Location: Tyler, TX, USA
- Contact:
ding ding!I just explained why what you're doing means you are an asshole. You're doing the magic card equivalent of trading the island of Manhattan for some turquoise beads.
Sharks and people with no morals will always find a way to justify to themselves why taking advantage of another person is okay. Either that or they have psychopathy. But whatever the reason, you can only just be a good example and protect yourself from getting taking advantage of by one of these types of players.
"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."
- DarthStabber
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 1336
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:39 am
I completely agree with your whole post but the quoted section is most important. As annoying a phone checking is, it's the best way to avoid getting screwed.But whatever the reason, you can only just be a good example and protect yourself from getting taking advantage of by one of these types of players.
With all that being said, it should be noted that being the shop's securities and exchange commision is going to infuriate the rest of the players, and no one likes a narc (or maybe that's just st. Louis, aka just shy of detroit). The key is to CYA, and maybe keep an eye out for newbs if the angel on your shoulder gets too loud and obnoxious.
![Image](http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/endlessupkeep/darth2_zps4058cd82.jpg)
thanks to nbw for the sig.
You do need to try to gay it up a little more.
You're like the least gay member of this clan.
And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests