R/b Burn

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magicdownunder
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:55 am

Yeah I watched it, well done :smileup:

I think your over doing it with Shock Lands since its going to make your Mirror, Affinity, Hate bears, Merfolk and Zoo MU closer then they should be, I also thought boarding in Torpor Orb vs Scapeshift was odd - but we're not packing much hate against them so its hard to board anything else.

We could run Blood Moons, but they run too many basic lands - I use to run LD but it doesn't feel as strong anymore without DrS.

Spark Elemental seems like a decent SB if it come down to them being much too troubling, I'll go into the tank and try and work something out :smileup:

@Lazer: if Burn isn't working for you have you tried Naya Zoo or one of ham'
s list? It plays like Boros Aggro in standard where your main win-con is creatures but you have burn as well for extra reach.
Last edited by magicdownunder on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MisterMet » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:56 am

Yeah I watched it, well done :smileup:
Thanks! :)
I think your over doing it with Shock Lands since its going to make your Mirror, Affinity, Hate bears, Merfolk and Zoo MU closer then they should be, I also though boarding in Torpor Orb vs Scapeshift was odd - but we're not packing much hate against them so its hard to board anything else.

We could run Blood Moons, but they run too many basic lands - I use to run LD but it doesn't feel as strong anymore without DrS.
Yeah, there were way too many occasions where I would
draw only shock lands. Next time around I'm going to replace a Blood Crypt and Stomping Ground with mountains and see if that helps.

Torpor Orb was only in against scapeshift because I didn't have any better options and really didn't want Obstinate Baloth to cause problems.
Spark Elemental seems like a decent SB if it come down to them being much too troubling, I'll go into the tank and try and work something out :smileup:
Hellspark Elemental could be a nice sideboard option against this and other combo decks.

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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:50 am

GAH!!! - Hellspark Elemental vs Spark Elemental, is like Think Twice vs Reach Through Mists.

I think I prefer Hellspark Elemental vs U based Combo/Control list but vs Non-Blue (which are usually faster) that 2cc is a huge deal.

I'll try Hellspark Elemental first because I love those guys when I played with them back in the day.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:07 am

@MDU - I'll stick with Burn, I love the deck far too much to play anything else :) Variance is just destroying me the moment, no land, flood, opp always having just what they need ... it'll pass, always does :) And YES to Hellspark, I love that card! :D
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Postby magicdownunder » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:23 am

I've now 3-0 three times in a row (I have my BnG cards 4x Dancers, but I don't feel like playing standard @_@)

Current list:

[deck=MDU's Rx Burn]Lands 20
5 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground

Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Vexing Devil

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
2 Flames of the Blood Hand

Sideboard 15
1 Searing Blaze
2 Hellspark Elemental
3 Spark Elemental
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Rakdos Charm[/deck]

The last event I ran was basically the top200 player play-offs (I feel bad for the casuals)...

In regard with the Sparks, they could be 3x Hellspark and 2x Ball Lightning which would be better for the UWr MU but I'm more concerned about faster combo builds which is why I choice the small cc option.
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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:30 am

Manage to redeem myself from yesterday 0-1 Eliminated and got 3-0, I wanted to say Keldon Marauders is really strong in the aggressive MU - its almost like a Shock + Fog which can sometimes turn into Shock + Lightning bolt

I should mention that Spark Elemental is under performing for me (for now) so HellSpark + Ball maybe better but I'll keep with it till I actually lose by 3 damage and blame it on Sparky.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 am

Hellspark and Ball Lightning! :) I like this list more all the time :)
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:06 am

2 x Faithless Looting is an excellent addition MDU! :D I swapped them in for the Flames (which I know may not be the best card to take out) and they are fantastic, especially with the flashback :) I strongly recommend giving them a go :)
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:01 pm

I would like to see a new sweeper - Volcanic Anger - it's RRR for deals 3 damage, exiles, can't be countered :D Also some sort of Devil/Marauders flip card where you get to pick which one when you cast it - it could be RR to make it fair :D
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Postby magicdownunder » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:42 pm

I think that would be broken...

I'm glad your liking Faithless Looting, I'm too worried about cutting my anti-life cards to try them :cry:

I also decided to run 3x HellSparks and 2x Hellthunders to combat control and combo.
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Postby Pedros » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:59 pm

When do you sb those hellsparks and spark elementals and what you sb out?
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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:01 pm

Hey Pedros! Come and play burn :D
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Postby Longtoe » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:40 pm

I am in.
Standard: Red whatever variant is most meta appropriate
Modern: RB burn, infect, Twin, Bots
Legacy: UR delver, belcher

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Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:37 pm

Welcome aboard Longtoe :D
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Postby Pedros » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:17 pm

Played 2 8 mans and cant stand this deck.

UWR having 5 helixes, not drawing black mana with 7 black cards in hand.
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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:06 am

Rx Burn like all Modern Aggro builds: GW Hate Bears, Robots, Zoo, Infect, etc... etc... are top-deck brews, every game you need to make the most of your resources or you will lose (which is much harder then it sounds esp. for burn) that said poor SB are pretty much fatal (etc.. running 7 B based cards vs UWr, I actually count UWr as good MU).

I personally would prefer playing Jund (if I wasn't a budget Newb) even without DrS, Lilly + Discard + Manlands = Still very strong

Anyhow here is where my list is sitting at now:

[deck]Rx Aggro[/deck]
Modern Elimination Report (Event 6743658)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Gr Tron Event 6743658
Modern Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs GW Hate Bears Event 6743658
Modern Elimination R3 Split

I'm currently ranked 62 in the MTGO Player of the Year rating which mean I make lots of finishes so take that _goblinlackey, MrWishyWashy and xMiMx
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Postby LaZerBurn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:12 am

Love these :) I'm still smiling about Vexing Devil :)
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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:32 am

Wall of Omen and Spellskite laugh at Hellspark Elemental so I may swap them for Keldon Marauders or more [card]Hell's Thunder[/card] + some Keldon Marauders.

I mention this because my last 3-0 was vs UW, UWr and WGR Midrange.
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Postby LaZerBurn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:15 am

Sounds good, I love Hell's Thunder too :)
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Postby magicdownunder » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm

Last Time
Current List:

[deck=MDU's Rx Burn]Lands 20
5 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground

Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Vexing Devil

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
3 Shard
Volley
2 Flames of the Blood Hand

Sideboard 15
1 Searing Blaze
2 Hell's Thunder
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Grim Lavamancer[/deck]

Modern Elimination Report (Event 6739738)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Pod Event 6739738
Modern Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs Rw Burn Event 6739738
Modern Elimination R3 Rx Burn vs Rwb Burn Event 6739738
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Postby Khaospawn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:37 pm

MDU - when do you get access to Firedancer?
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Postby LaZerBurn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:42 pm

Really enjoying these MDU :)

Firedancer is legal now Khaos.
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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:02 am

Really? Then why isn't he being played? I'd play Firedancer over Marauders in that deck.
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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:03 am

I just assumed Born wasn't out yet on MTGO
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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:57 am

I find Combo and Control harder then Aggro, which is why I'm not running Dancer - though I could swap Grim for dancer in my boards (but grim does damage....).
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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:45 am

I find Combo and Control harder then Aggro, which is why I'm not running Dancer - though I could swap Grim for dancer in my boards (but grim does damage....).
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking that 'dancer could be left in the board and you could just swap him for Goblin Guide in the creature match-ups.
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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:22 am

I find Combo and Control harder then Aggro, which is why I'm not running Dancer - though I could swap Grim for dancer in my boards (but grim does damage....).
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking that 'dancer could be left in the board and you could just swap him for Goblin Guide in the creature match-ups.
No I agree, Dancer is a VERY strong SB card in modern - I just don't know how to make room T_T.
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Postby Pedros » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:26 am

Rx Burn like all Modern Aggro builds: GW Hate Bears, Robots, Zoo, Infect, etc... etc... are top-deck brews, every game you need to make the most of your resources or you will lose (which is much harder then it sounds esp. for burn) that said poor SB are pretty much fatal (etc.. running 7 B based cards vs UWr, I actually count UWr as good MU).

I personally would prefer playing Jund (if I wasn't a budget Newb) even without DrS, Lilly + Discard + Manlands = Still very strong

Anyhow here is where my list is sitting at now:

[deck]Rx Aggro[/deck]
Modern Elimination Report (Event 6743658)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Gr Tron Event 6743658
Modern Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs GW Hate Bears Event 6743658
Modern Elimination R3 Split

I'm currently ranked 62 in the MTGO Player of the Year rating which mean I make lots of finishes so
take that _goblinlackey, MrWishyWashy and xMiMx
I had 7 black spells vs kiki pod. Had 4 black bolts with flashbacks and 3 rakdos charm when he combo of and was at 7 ;/
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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:47 pm

@Pedros: Ouch....

@Zerburn: Can you post where your 75 is at now, and your though on some of the MUs?
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Postby Khaospawn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:53 pm

P-Sullivan is playing R/b Burn on MTGO also. On Facebook, somebody asks, "Why are you playing Vexing Devil!? " He goes: I had to get to 60 somehow.

It made me laugh.
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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:18 pm

P-Sullivan is playing R/b Burn on MTGO also. On Facebook, somebody asks, "Why are you playing Vexing Devil!? " He goes: I had to get to 60 somehow.

It made me laugh.
:D
Last Time
Modern Elimination Report (Event 6743658)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Gr Tron Event 6743658
Modern
Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs GW Hate Bears Event 6743658

Modern Elimination R3 Split

Current List:

[deck=MDU's Rx Burn]Lands 20
5 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground

Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Vexing Devil

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
2 Flames of the Blood Hand

Sideboard 15
1 Searing Blaze
2 Hell's Thunder
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Grim Lavamancer[/deck]

Modern Elimination Report (Event 6739738)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Pod Event 6739738
Modern Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs Rw Burn Event 6739738
Modern Elimination R3 Rx Burn vs Rwb Burn Event 6739738
Modern Elimination Report (Event 6747202 )
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Naya Zoo Event 6747202
Modern Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs BW Token Event 6747202
Modern Elimination R3 Split

Not sure how I feel about my Keldon Marauders main yet...
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Postby LaZerBurn » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:09 pm

@Zerburn: Can you post where your 75 is at now, and your though on some of the MUs?
Yeah of course :) It's still pretty much your last list except for the Faithless Looting I think.

[deck]Rx Aggro[/deck]

I put in the Thunder and Hellspark because your meta game analysis and reaction speed is generally still waaay ahead of mine so following your lead seems a smart move and because I really :love: the cards :D I can see Marauders MD as they are hard hitting unopposed and excellent against Zoo.

I'm still figuring out a lot of the match ups and I've yet to face Affinity, Twin and Pod. I've played UWR once and I lost to variance so didn't get much of a handle on the match up.

Tron seems favourable, they do a lot of durdling :) I brought in Revelry for Searing Blaze.

Zoo seems a bit of a coin toss. We can beat their good draws and vice versa. Tarmagoyf and Geist can be a beating, Helix is VERY annoying. Marauders would be nice.
I took out GG for Anger and Searing Blaze.

I'm not sure about Merfolk. I lost 1-2 to them ,winning G1 easily with a decent draw, G2 he had an answer for everything and then losing a very close G3 on a misplay :( I brought in Anger for Skullcrack and wished I'd brought in Revelry as his Spellskite and Vial where nasty in G3 but I'm not sure if this is correct.

Scapeshift is a race. I just try to play around the counters and leave 'Crack mana up for the Baloth. I took out Searing Blaze for Hellsparks.

Faeries seems favourable but annoying, what with removal, counters, Tectonic Edge and Spellstutter's. Bitterblossom has helped me win every game :) I may just have been lucky and played people who just started with the deck though.

I'm really enjoying the deck, hoping we can get a full SB plan together over the next few weeks

EDIT - I lost to Soul Sisters but had blanked it from memory, we need LOTS of luck for this one :)
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Postby magicdownunder » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:42 am

Cheers Lazer :smileup:

Question for you lot:

Ensnaring Bridge vs Anger of the Gods

Ensnaring Bridge:
S: Can crush creature based tactics, ongoing effect.
W: Can be answers, requires low hands, cripples your own creatures (thought his one shouldn't matter).

Anger of the Gods
S: Can crush small creature based tactics and exiles - has immediate effect.
W: Doesn't stop large creature based builds, can't stop large creature based combo, only happens once.

I like Ensnaring Bridge but Tron, Pod, Robots and Jund can get around it via tricks or removing the bridge itself. Bridge is however many times better at
dealing with Dredge and Auras whilst also dealing with merfolk and Zoo.

I like Anger of the Gods mainly because its great vs robots, pod and is decent vs merfolk and Zoo.

If you had to pick one for for SB which would you go for and why?
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Postby LaZerBurn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:16 am

Bridge is much better all round as it works against EVERYTHING, Anger is more situational. I'm liking Anger as it wrecks Zoo and I've played them (and other Zoo/Aggro variants) and I like the card :) Looking at the online meta it's a good bet too - Robots, Pod, Zoo ...

It's a meta call and with what I'm seeing now I'll stick with Anger but overall I think Bridge is better, if that makes sense :)
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Postby Khaospawn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:05 pm

I've been playing R/b Burn for over the last year and a half, and I swear by Ensnaring Bridge. I absolutely love it. In conjunction with Lavamancer, it just about destroys any creature-based aggro deck (especially Merfolk, unless they are smart enough to board in Echoing Truth for the Bridge), with the weird exception of Affinity. Why? Cuz if you can't kill an Ornithopter, it can attack because of its zero power, despite having a bridge out, and then your opponent can instant speed equip Cranial Plating. But those situations actually rarely come up.

Anyway, now that I can update my deck with some new stuff, I'm strongly considering replacing Bridge with Firedancer.

Here's my current rough draft:

[deck]
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Combust
3 *
[/deck]
I have 3 flex-slots. I may lean towards Molten Rain. It's a card that's relevant in almost any match-up, and gets better against
Tron, Scapeshift, and U/W/r.

I'm also surprised that I haven't seen Flame Javelin in anybody's lists. I'm a big fan of that card since it's able to target Spellskite, Deceiver Exarch, Obstinate Baloth. and possibly kill a 'goyf. But, it pretty much comes down to Flames of the Bloodhand VS Flame Javelin most of the time, so I suspect that is why I rarely see other people playing it.

Anyways, I doubt that whatever I have to say will be relevant for the MTGO meta. I prepare for my meta, which is pretty well balanced (Well, admittedly, Affinity has been on the rise in the last few weeks but I think that's only temporary). I just thought I'd share with you guys. :)
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Postby LaZerBurn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:44 pm

Thanks Khaos :) I value your input, your experience of playing the deck and insights into the match ups are invaluable. It also means we get to work on the same deck too which I like :D What's your current 75? I've checked the thread and your last one is pre-ban. Wat have you replaced DRS with? :)

I really :love: the Dancer (largely based on how pleasing it is to CRUSH MonoU Devo with St Burn) but I'm thinking he may be too slow and vulnerable here? Against Zoo for example T2 would you rather dome them for 6 (setting up a T3 Bridge or Anger which they can't interact with) or just kill 2 of
their guys (effectively gaining 4-6 life) or play the Dancer? Potentially he's awesome but if you do play him and they just kill him and keep attacking you're fucked :) You can't hide behind him like a Bridge either :( Thoughts guys?

This is worth a look - I faced the GR Zoo list, (and a variant with Lightning Mauler and Keldon Marauders) it wasn't very pleasant and BTE totally wrecked me. I didn't see Anger though :(

If this is the Twin list you asked me about MDU I agree, it's horrible!
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Postby Khaospawn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:24 pm

Thanks Khaos :) I value your input, your experience of playing the deck and insights into the match ups are invaluable. It also means we get to work on the same deck too which I like :D What's your current 75? I've checked the thread and your last one is pre-ban. Wat have you replaced DRS with? :)

I really :love: the Dancer (largely based on how pleasing it is to CRUSH MonoU Devo with St Burn) but I'm thinking he may be too slow and
vulnerable here? Against Zoo for example T2 would you rather dome them for 6 (setting up a T3 Bridge or Anger which they can't interact with) or just kill 2 of their guys (effectively gaining 4-6 life) or play the Dancer? Potentially he's awesome but if you do play him and they just kill him and keep attacking you're fucked :) You can't hide behind him like a Bridge either :( Thoughts guys?

This is worth a look - I faced the GR Zoo list, (and a variant with Lightning Mauler and Keldon Marauders) it wasn't very pleasant and BTE totally wrecked me. I didn't see Anger though :(
I had to rebuild the deck just last week and, for
the life of me, I couldn't remember my original 75 before I took the deck apart. Sometime over the summer, I realized that playing Burn in a competitive environment was pointless due to DRS being in the format, the fact that a single well-timed Lightning Helix against you could put you so far out of reach that winning was impossible, and that to do somewhat reasonable well you had to mish-mash your deck to include DRS AND Lightning Helix, which put you in 3-4 colors. This was all just bad. I switched over to Mono Red Goblins for a long while before developing other decks, like Merfolk, Storm, a Goblin-Burn variant, and U/R Delver.I am very happy that not only does Burn stand a better chance now than before RTR released, but that Vexing Devil is somewhat playable. Somewhat.

Anyways, here is what I'm currently working with:

[deck]
Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Vexing Devil

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Skullcrack
4 Searing Blaze
n1 Shard Volley
3 Flame Javelin

Land 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave CLiffs
4 Mountain
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground

Sideboard 15
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Combust
3 ***
[/deck]

The last 4 spells in the list, the 3/1 split of Javelin and Shard Volley, is more or less my flex spots. I like Shard Volley, since it's Lavamancer fuel and it allows you to strategically make Blackcleave Cliffs less shitty after turn 3, but I really hate holding multiples and being stuck on 1-2 land. As a finisher, it's great - no doubt about that. And as for Flame Javelin, well, I've lost too many Game Ones against Twin to just want it [Javelin] over Flames of the Bloodhand. Granted, if you have to board into "creature removal mode" by using the Satyr Firedancer, the Bloodhands will essentially function as a Javelin, but I digress. I've run across too many decks maindecking Spellskite to just know what suits me.

Other cards I've considered are [
card]Molten Rain[/card], Pillar of Flame, Volcanic Fallout, and Burst Lightning. Burst Lightning is especially tempting since it does hit that "sweet spot" of 4 damage, but kicking it can't come soon enough to potentially stop a turn 4 Splinter Twin/Exarch combo. But, having access to more 1 CMC instant speed removal is very valuable when on the Firedancer plan. (Firedancer is almost like YP$ in that you don't want to play him and then be tapped out. You want to get some value from him even if he's killed.)

I play the full 4 Lavamancer and Searing Blazes since my meta is starting to become more aggressive. The last Modern event I played in had B/W tokens (very good, too), Small Tribal Zoo (like, turn 4 kill scary), Affinity, Merfolk, and Goblins. With these decks in my metagame, Lavamancer and Blaze are rarely dead cards. Against certain control decks, those 8 cards can just come
right out for the 2x Combust, 3x Rakdos Charm, and 3x Destructive Revelry. I find all of those cards helpful in fighting graveyard flashback shenanigans, Spellskites, Leylines, Colonnades, Exarchs, Resto Angels, Chalice of the Void set at 1, Swords or Batterskull, etc. Basically, the usual suspects in the faces of Control.
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Postby magicdownunder » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:41 pm

Thanks for the post guys, I'm going to revise my list now :suckup:

Thoughts:
Flame Javelin vs Flames of the Blood Hand: IMO Flame Javelin is better in RDW where you want to clear a path for your creatures (and vs Twins), I prefer Flames of the Blood Hand in burn because it goes to dome and spellskite can't stop it.
Dancer: Is great vs Merfolk, Pod and Affinity, but is weaker vs the other creature builds (its like bridge because it can be dealt with).
Ensnaring Bridge: Ok, I'll try it.
Modern Elimination Report Event (6750356)
Modern Elimination R1 Rx Burn vs Casual Brew Event 6750356
Modern
Elimination R2 Rx Burn vs Rb Burn Event 6750356

Modern Elimination R3 Rx Burn vs BW Token Event 6750356

@Lazerburn: the list I was talking about cut Blue and just went WR Twins, the one on the link you posted plays like normal Twin except its weaker to Blood Moon and Land Tricks but make up for it by improving Plan B (the Aggro Plan).
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Postby Khaospawn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:34 pm

I assume this is relevant to our interests.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27 ... nters.html
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Postby Platypus » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:52 pm

^That was a great read!
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