FTV 20: Jace TMS

Discussions about the secondary market for Magic Cards. What's Hot? What has fallen from grace?

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FTV 20: Jace TMS

Postby Yannaria » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:49 am

Jace is in FTV 20.
price after it drops?

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Postby Col. Khaddafi » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:17 pm

Its already skyrocketed up to 500$ in the secondary market.

I guess that despite Jace being announced is a huge thing, but we are still 15 cards to go.

FTR we have cards from these blocks:

95 (Hymn)
96 (Impulse)
Onslaught (A Vengeance)
Time Spiral (Venser, so no Tarmy here)
Zendikar (Jace)

On the top of my head, there are a few money cards we could get (Tempest, Saga, Ravnica, Lorwyn, etc...) so its too early to say. Imagine you're getting Thoughtseize or something like that (since it didn't came out in MM).

Depending on the rest of the cards, I'd say it would go at the very lowest down to 150-200$ based on what we have, but there is still some solid possibilities open for money cards.
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Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium :thumbsup:

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Postby Yannaria » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Snapcaster could make it into INN block. I'm skeptical that Delver will make it into that slot due to it being a double faced card, but hey, anything is possible.

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Postby Thrillho » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:26 pm

The FTV one? Or normal foil?
Commander's Arsenal Sylvan Libraries sold for as high as $80 and are currently $43 and the card sees virtually no competitive play in Legacy and older formats, aside from I assume Commander --- but also the card had never been printed in foil and had not been seen Black Bordered (or with new art) since its release in Legends. Jace is a 4-of in a good majority of the best Legacy decks and I also assume in a number of other format's decks (IDK if Commander hates him on principle but also I'm pretty sure Commander is a format where Planeswalkers get hit pretty hard?). I would imagine this bumps the stock of it up pretty high by comparison assuming a similar quantity are being distributed as with prior box sets. I think $500 is pretty inflated because people hate FTV foils when normal foils exist and because JTMS' current foil price tag is based on one buyer consuming the available stock on the
secondary market IIRC via a rumor I read online (which read as some guy dropped $10k on copies of JTMS and drove prices up to $1,000 overnight).

Because it does all the same things a normal copy does and is still pretty limited edition, I'd price it at a floor of $120, which is pretty fair for a NM JTMS non-foil, to $300, the last current price of foil JTMS before the price went crazy-go-nuts. It will likely presell at $500 because some people are actually insane, but after the dust clears and people realize that there are a lot of these out and about, I can see it settling at or around the price of even a non-foil jace.


Related news:
Looks like we got trolled hard by the Mom art.

That Hymn is SIIIIICK.
When was Gilded Lotus in a deck?

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Postby Thrillho » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:36 pm

http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/from-the-vault-exiled
Here's the best-value FTV by singles value and overall. Compare prices of cards from this by the amount of play they see with the play the cards currently spoiled from FTV 20 and kind of do a rough estimate that way. By eyeballing, it seems like FTV 20 is better value generally, but aside from Jace is only about roughly the same (as excited about Hymn as I am, Top and Strip Mine see far more play). Most singles will probably settle at the $10 range, and even Ink Eyes is a $6 card non-foil on the regular.

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Postby Yannaria » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:54 pm

I was curious what you thought of the price of each jace TMS, not just the FTV foil or the regular foil after this set finally hits and the dust settles from the insane costs.
So you see the set selling for around a grand?

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Postby Col. Khaddafi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:05 pm

No, he means FTV Jace.

I still maintain that before getting the complete list it is inane to do anything else than define anything else than an absolutely lower estimate based on the assumption that we get what has been spoiled and the rest is just useless chaff. Based on what we have, I think is nigh impossible that the set would ever sell below 150$ on the secondary market which is nearly 4xMSRP, so its still kinda impressive because it puts it way ahead of stuff like commanders arsenal (which you can get at 2xMSRP in EU at the lowest), with still the potential to go up.

Also take into account that this is a piece of history set and the 20years of magic stuff will encourage more than one person to just display the stuff in his mom's basement shrine, so I think its something that needs to be appropriately insane as far as magic celebrations go.
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Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium :thumbsup:

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Postby Thrillho » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Yannus » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:54 am wrote:I was curious what you thought of the price of each jace TMS, not just the FTV foil or the regular foil after this set finally hits and the dust settles from the insane costs.
So you see the set selling for around a grand?

Maybe to insane people who can only buy it through ebay or after years of holding it in cold storage, humidity-controlled container and with all of the contents suddenly shooting up to $50 each excluding Jace as non-limited edition versions. I have no idea where you get that I think it'll sell for a grand because the link in the prior post doesn't imply that at all (IE Hymn sees nowhere near as much play as most of the cards in FTV Exiled).

Jace's price probably will not be affected very greatly because everyone hates FTV foils and
the presence of an FTV version of a card isn't as widespread as other box sets (Premium Series Graveborn, for example). They look ugly, have similar wearing to the Black Planeswalker promos from SDCC, and collectors generally go for either the full unopened box set or original versions of a card, with some value being given to (good) new art versions of FTV cards (Nicol Bolas, Sylvan Library). That said, Mox Diamond dropped a little, but Mox Diamond never had a foil version or alternate art prior to the FTV release, and very few players had copies available for a card that didn't see very much play in the formats it was legal in, so a card with little demand and a high price dropped as supply entered the market. Jace is super high demand, reasonably high supply, and with an existing non-ugly foil version available that is a collector's item.

Compare this also with FTV Kiki-Jiki, whose price rose after release, but whose price stayed roughly the same as a non-foil original art version even while it rose.
Kikijiki is not a Legacy 4-of staple like Jace is, but this is where I get the "rising relative to its original's value" from.

I would also compare the FTV jace with Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant from MM, whose prices are equal to and greater than their original copies and whose original prices are essentially unaffected by the rerelease despite a pretty sizable amount of product being made available.

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Postby Col. Khaddafi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:19 pm

Also as an aside, from someone who has his FTV MSRP copy put aside everytime by his LGS owner, I still wish for once these things would be released with a little "extra" supply because I can feel it from here that many people aren't going to even have a shot at getting those at reasonable prices. It is a little bit sad since we are talking about a celebration set of 20years of Magic story.

In any case from the info I'm getting from my owner, he is expecting exactly the usual amounts of boxes when compared to previous FTV series.
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Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium :thumbsup:

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Postby Tom Servo » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Col. Khaddafi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:19 pm wrote:Also as an aside, from someone who has his FTV MSRP copy put aside everytime by his LGS owner, I still wish for once these things would be released with a little "extra" supply because I can feel it from here that many people aren't going to even have a shot at getting those at reasonable prices. It is a little bit sad since we are talking about a celebration set of 20years of Magic story.

In any case from the info I'm getting from my owner, he is expecting exactly the usual amounts of boxes when compared to previous FTV series.

I actually agree. I don't think everyone needs all the cards they want, but with this being the 20th anniversary and all I think it should probably get an extra bump in the print run or something. I don't
have anything against collecting or collectors, but hoarders are going to make this suck. Oh well I guess
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Postby Thrillho » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:01 pm

I feel similarly. While I have a bunch of past FTV sealed, they were mostly acquired through trades or holding onto the one I got at MSRP. It stinks that people who want the cards or want to celebrate magic or both will get priced out or greeded out, but this is also just kind of what happens with collectible hobbies in general.

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Postby Kaitscralt » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:29 am

How much is sealed ftv dragons worth now, I remember I threw one in to my collection sale to Kijin
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby Kaitscralt » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:29 am

Just want to make sure Modern wasn't the only thing that boned my value
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Postby Col. Khaddafi » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:00 am

They actually increased way past their cards value on the grounds of being the first FTV. Lot of people didn't care at the time only to try to get one now to add to their collection of FTV's. Ebay BIN's are around 140-150$.
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Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium :thumbsup:

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Postby Thrillho » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:07 pm

Kaitscralt » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:29 pm wrote:How much is sealed ftv dragons worth now, I remember I threw one in to my collection sale to Kijin

around $130.
the nicol bolas alone is worth over $40.

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Postby Yannaria » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:21 am

That bolas art dough

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Postby Col. Khaddafi » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:18 am

yeah, lol FTV foil Nicol Fucking Bolas at 40$


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Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium :thumbsup:


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