Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[rezombad]

I'll catch up later (I know you have questions, pie),, but I'm at the bar and that post was such wifom that it made my balls hurt, jack.

UNVOTE

BALLS IN YOUR COURT MOTHAFUXKA WHO SHOULD WE LYNCH SINCE YOUR NOT VOTING?!

[Cursed_Pride]

So who's scum if I'm town? How does town benefit if I'm lynched and roll town?

-First off, you're at four votes. Please claim.

If someone is scummy, lynch them. If you're town, we have a wagon to analyze.

Moving the game forwards is ultimately better than talking ourselves in circles for three months and burning out actual townies, who then seem scummier for it.

-Game has stagnated right now, and we need to make a lynch happen.

[Jack]

Alright, claim: I'm town, with a night ability (not 1-shot) that makes a player of my choice untargetable for that night. I didn't use it last night. I had considered using it on C_P, but didn't because I thought a lot of the town would send mail to him and that there was a chance that he wouldn't be the NK target. I'll probably use it tonight on CP or pie or somebody else that looks really town unless I find out before the day ends that town has an actual doctor.

[RedNihilist]

So, the ability states that target player won't even receive mail for the night?

[Jack]

It makes them untargetable. I asked Stardust, and he confirmed that this also applies to receiving mail.

[Cursed_Pride]

So, a Cloaker.

Do you protect nightkills?

Can you claim role name and paraphrase flavor?

[Mogadishu Jones]

Hey i been a little busy with memorial day weekend but I swear ill post a post tomorrow that slams ham into the dirt.

[Jack]

So, a Cloaker.

Do you protect nightkills?

Yes.

Can you claim role name and paraphrase flavor?

Flavor: the character is called The Postman; I'm unaware of the source of the reference, though. The ability is called Guard Dog, because I have a dog (that wasn't too specific, was it?)

[RedNihilist]

I am a postman and thus I hate dogs.
So I can't deliver mail.
Funny enough.

[hamfactorial]

Hey i been a little busy with memorial day weekend but I swear ill post a post tomorrow that slams ham into the dirt.

Looking forward to it, cutie

[Dechs Kaison]

I'm sold.
Unvote
Vote Jack

Let's hang some scum.

Echo this.

Vote Jack

[Cursed_Pride]

Rescind Vote (Unvote)

-Need to think about the claim more.

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

Wraith223 (1): Lord_Mcdonalds
Jack (4): Wraith223, hamfactorial, RedNihilist, Dechs Kaison
hamfactorial (1): Mogadishu Jones
rezombad (1): InflatablePie

Not voting: Jack, rezombad, Cursed_Pride

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

[Wraith223]

So jacks claims cloaker. Interesting ability. For some reason it sounds more scum than town ability wise (cloak and dagger, that is what comes to mind). Why call it cloaker, when jailer seems more town? I am only bringing this up from my experience researching mafia for game creation. Seems really off. Although, this is a postal mafia, thus Jack could be telling the truth. My problem with Jack is the increasing evidence of scum activity.
1. Lurking, really bad.
2. Voting with no reasons of his own
3. No answering questions in Day one, could be a reaction from his bad questions of how the mail works.
4. Vote flipping to any wagon with LMD or Rcw.
5. Now the claim that could be scum or town?

For now I am not moving my vote, but will think about his claim more. My gut says it is a 50/50 chance of his claim of town being correct.

@jack, what is your town, null, and null list currently?

[Mcdonalds]

unvote

[Wraith223]

Edit on Jack list.

6. Not scum hunting at all. No reads or opinions other than probative questions or thoughts.

[Jack]

Yeah, my case doesn't look good. But I don't see where you're going with the vote flipping thing. In 23 pages, I've made 2 votes. And while I may not have given much explaination to those votes at the time, it's fairly clear why I made them, given what had already been said by others/the need to hang somebody before time ran out.

What questions did I miss? Were they important?

[Wraith223]

Yeah, my case doesn't look good. But I don't see where you're going with the vote flipping thing. In 23 pages, I've made 2 votes. And while I may not have given much explaination to those votes at the time, it's fairly clear why I made them, given what had already been said by others/the need to hang somebody before time ran out.

What questions did I miss? Were they important?

Having your own read in your words, not someone else's is important for town. Otherwise, you are using others points as a shield. You switched to rcw as soon as LMD looked weak wagon wise. No explanation was given. We can't go back and say you did it for a no vote prevention cause it's in hindsight. Past explanation does not help town. The present reason for voting
does. Now what is your town, null, and scum list? That one is fairly important.

[Jack]

Town:
me
CP
pie
red
dechs
wraith

I think most of us have this same town pile, except some don't see me as town.
I still don't perfectly understand why many are clearing LMD. Is the "counterwagon to scum" argument pretty much just "there is a very small chance that 10-11 of us were voting for scum when the day ended"?
I get town vibes from ham (he defended himself very well at the start of Day 2). Still, he has done a lot to make him look like he could be scum, especially how quickly he jumped onto a Red wagon once Pie tried to start one.
I haven't spent too much time trying to read rezzy, but I don't like how he tried to misrep me and draw undue suspicion to Dechs.
Jones could very well be scum. I'm not too keen on the way he hammered when Ham said he would do it, thus painting Ham in a bad light. He could have at least waited until it was clear that Ham wouldn't be back.

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

Jack (4): Wraith223, hamfactorial, RedNihilist, Dechs Kaison
hamfactorial (1): Mogadishu Jones
rezombad (1): InflatablePie

Not voting: Jack, rezombad, Cursed_Pride, Lord_Mcdonalds

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

[Stardust]

InflatablePie is due for a prod, but I'll give him a couple more days since he's semi-VLA.

[InflatablePie]

hi I'm here. (b' ')b

Don't see why we're voting Jack, don't see why people are still voting him. Especially considering Wraith is leading the wagon.

[hamfactorial]

What's troubling you about Wraith being in front of this one?

It looked like C_P was the catalyst for this reason, but I'm more curious why you mentioned Wraith specifically.

[Wraith223]

Town:
me
CP
pie
red
dechs
wraith

I think most of us have this same town pile, except some don't see me as town. Why do you think that is? (rhetorical)
I still don't perfectly understand why many are clearing LMD. Is the "counterwagon to scum" argument pretty much just "there is a very small chance that 10-11 of us were voting for scum when the day ended"? I have not cleared LMD of anything as he has pretty much stopped scum hunting. He could be scum, and I role blocked his ass as I still have doubts he is town. Will probably do it again if he ain't lynched. Best comment from you so far.
I get town vibes from ham (he defended himself very well at the start of Day 2). Still, he has done a lot to make him look like he could be scum, especially how quickly he jumped onto a Red wagon once Pie tried to start one. He needs to scum hunt and be less reactive, but he wanted to hear from RCW before lynching. MoJo hammered and claimed "unknowing" of his hammer. Ham called it on him. Whether that is proof is subjective, although I think Ham is town. Reactive, slow town that is.
I haven't spent too much time trying to read rezzy, but I don't like how he tried to misrep me and draw undue suspicion to Dechs. He has scum hunted hard and pushed wagons a little to hard early game. I think he missed the RCW wagon as well. He could be scum or town that was just not active at that time. Rez is hard to read sometimes, but he has contributed more than others for town with reads and opinions.[/
color]
Jones could very well be scum. I'm not too keen on the way he hammered when Ham said he would do it, thus painting Ham in a bad light. He could have at least waited until it was clear that Ham wouldn't be back. Another great comment that I share an agreement with. MoJo's hammer was fast and rather hasty. The claim of not knowing the hammer seems wrong as he saw the wagon and voted right away. Not counting the votes appears scum bussing RCW. The evidence is circumstantial and subjective thought. It's a gut call in my opinion.

Now onto to you. I can't call you as being town, but loosing your role could be bad for town. Iamopen2 lied big time in my first game and I fell for it. Thus pardon my distrust. For now,

Unvote

After sleeping on your claim, I think leaving you alone for today is best for town.

My next best read is MoJo with that hammer and claim of unknowingly committing the hammer.
n
Vote MoJo The dude seriously needs a shorter username in playing Mafia.

Anyone else think MoJo is suspect? Reasons I am voting him:
1. CM early game is lurking bad (I noted the sickness, but he could have scum hunted more earlier)
2. MoJo takes over and pretty much votes RCW immediately. MoJo kind has the perfect set up as he has a shield of ignorance from him and us as no one has read till he votes. No one suspects anything till he claims in response to Ham that he unknowingly hammers Rcw. If he just said I hammer RCW and not acted defensive about; I would have let that go.
3. Being defensive about the hammer
4. Utilizing some weird ability on Ham to prevent mail from reaching Ham. Vindictive over something rather trivial? Why?
5. NO scum hunting since.
6. Continued Lurking.

[Wraith223]

What's troubling you about Wraith being in front of this one?

It looked like C_P was the catalyst for this reason, but I'm more curious why you mentioned Wraith specifically.

It's OK. He has a valid reason to question me. I just finally got to a library to respond to Jack. Jack could be risky for town to lynch as he is a protector in my opinion as of now. I had to sleep on it to get an opinion formed. I hope jack continues to use that line of thinking in his future posts as it was genuine town in my opinion. Or he could be a great liar.

InflateablePie did not say it, but lynching claimed protectors is a bad idea. I pushing him for a
town, null, and scum list. I liked it and it seemed well thought out. To bad it had to be pushed/forced out of him.

[hamfactorial]

Unvote
Vote MoJo

I'm interested in pushing on MoJo to see what comes up. I laid out my reasoning for his end of day 1 actions being scum-aligned, so I'd like to see what he has in response.

He also promised to slam me in a follow-up post, which has yet to materialize.

come at me bro

[Dechs Kaison]

Unvote

So, Jackwagon fell apart. I accept that. His claim is that his ability makes a person not targetable. That's pretty much only a defensive role, so it doesn't make sense as a scum thing. If his claim is true, then lynching him is most certainly a bad thing for town.

Can we verify his ability? Since it should bounce mail, we could use the mail to verify much like we did with Red. (Everybody send mail this time) We can't make it public before the night who he's going to protect, so we'll just have to rely on the luck of the mail. Making it public would waste the ability tonight.

Jack, can you protect yourself? Might be a good idea, since your ability sounds like something that scum would want to night kill. Then again, that's what they'd expect you to do... Damn WIFOM logic.

[Jack]

I'm not sure if I can protect myself. But I don't think I will even if I could. Mafia usually won't NK someone who they still think could be lynched during the day, and I think most people here would still vote for me given the right impetus.

[RedNihilist]

Quick thoughts:

Alright, claim: I'm town, with a night ability (not 1-shot) that makes a player of my choice untargetable for that night. I didn't use it last night. I had considered using it on C_P, but didn't because I thought a lot of the town would send mail to him and that there was a chance that he wouldn't be the NK target. I'll probably use it tonight on CP or pie or somebody else that looks really town unless I find out before the day ends that town has an actual doctor.

This sentence stinks.

Unvote
Vote MoJo

I'm
interested in pushing on MoJo to see what comes up. I laid out my reasoning for his end of day 1 actions being scum-aligned, so I'd like to see what he has in response.

He also promised to slam me in a follow-up post, which has yet to materialize.

come at me bro

I'm quite in a rush at the moment so I can't dig too much, can you point out where he declared so? :0

Can we verify his ability? Since it should bounce mail, we could use the mail to verify much like we did with Red.

That'd be sweet, actually.

[hamfactorial]

I'm quite in a rush at the moment so I can't dig too much, can you point out where he declared so? :0

Sure thing, it was from Monday -

Hey i been a little busy with memorial day weekend but I swear ill post a post tomorrow that slams ham into the dirt.

[Wraith223]

Checking in....not much has changed.

Red caught what I thought was weird as well. I had to really think about it to arrive at the decision to unvote. Good job Red.

Ham is finally scum hunting. Go Ham! MoJo should have followed through with his attack.

Will pop back in later when I get to the bigger town. MoJo is the strongest vote right now in my opinion. Anyone have a read we might have missed? Got an opinion on the matter Rez?

[RedNihilist]

I'm quite in a rush at the moment so I can't dig too much, can you point out where he declared so? :0

Sure thing, it was from Monday -

Hey i been a little busy with memorial day weekend but I swear ill post a post tomorrow that slams ham into the dirt.

Thanks. Nice non-sequitur there, MoJo.
Is it prod-time already for him?

Checking in.
...not much has changed.

Red caught what I thought was weird as well. I had to really think about it to arrive at the decision to unvote. Good job Red.

Ham is finally scum hunting. Go Ham! MoJo should have followed through with his attack.

Will pop back in later when I get to the bigger town. MoJo is the strongest vote right now in my opinion. Anyone have a read we might have missed? Got an opinion on the matter Rez?

I sure would love to see rez post anything at the moment.

[hamfactorial]

I'm thinking about a plan for day 2 and looking for some information. It's difficult to search by phone, so I'm looking for a list of who had claimed/flipped and what role they are associated with.

By memory:

Jack - Cloaker
Red - Mail Watcher
Raspy - Mail Interceptor / Tamperer
MoJo - Mail Bouncer

Have I missed a claim? I remember Wraith saying that he did something night 1, but can't find it.

[RedNihilist]

Here you are ham:

@wraith: It really bothers me that you brought up a serial killer.

This game has players casting votes without reasons why (2 players). Jack asking the weird question, asking for a LMD wagon, and flipping to RCW without a reason beyond "must lynch someone" seems different in a manner that trips me as a "no team" player. Either that is newb scum or something else as it is a great departure from his normal posting in my opinion. Also, this is going postal mafia. I would expect to see some kind of extra kill player beyond the scum players.
Whether they are town or not is hard to call. I have been pondering about this for a few days now and thinks it needs to brought to towns attention. My gut is rumbling about this.

Over night, I Roleblocked LMD cause I think he is scum. His inactivity, dissociation with many, and lack of scum hunting put him as my top scum pick after Jack. I now have them at equal levels of suspicion. Red has me perplexed now that RCW was found to be scum InflateablePie trusted him and was right on RCW. For now Red is in my Null pile.

@red: you should probably say that.

So InflateablePie is the king maker this game? If he has questions; send them. I said I roleblocked LMD cause he was my other scum read besides Red. Not sure what is scummy about that. I am town roleblocker and that is my claim as
you can gather from past posts. Besides a few others, I am one of the few that actually posts a reason for my votes and factors why it is strong and weak for town to grasp my position. I don't ask for wagons without evidence, but others asking for wagons without evidence are getting away with it. Lurkers are being ignored. I am glad Inflateablepie nailed scum day 1, but so many voted Rcw without a read of their own. That bothers me when they demand answers but won't answer my questions. To be town this game, one must lurk, not answer anyone's questions except Inflateablepie's, call others crazy, and not give reads for votes given. Is this the new meta or new acceptable town?

I need a smiley that is pissed off while throwing paperwork up in the air. Jack is the stronger vote as he just said that he has nothing to add. That is not town and town players must be actively scum hunting for town to win. Inflateablepie is tunneling with me or is the meanest scum player to buss Rcw.

[
quote="Wraith223 » Wed May 28, 2014 6:40 pm"]

Town:
me
CP
pie
red
dechs
wraith

I think most of us have this same town pile, except some don't see me as town. Why do you think that is? (rhetorical)
I still don't perfectly understand why many are clearing LMD. Is the "counterwagon to scum" argument pretty much just "there is a very small chance that 10-11 of us were voting for scum when the day ended"? I have not cleared LMD of anything as he has pretty much stopped scum hunting. He could be scum, and I role blocked his ass as I still have doubts he is town. Will probably do it again if he ain't lynched. Best comment from you so far.
I get town vibes from ham (he defended himself very well at the start of Day 2). Still, he has done a lot to make him look like he could be scum, especially how quickly he jumped onto a Red wagon once Pie tried to start one. He needs to scum hunt and be less reactive, but he wanted to hear from RCW before lynching. MoJo hammered and claimed "unknowing" of his hammer. Ham called it on him. Whether that is proof is subjective, although I think Ham is town. Reactive, slow town that is.
I haven't spent too much time trying to read rezzy, but I don't like how he tried to misrep me and draw undue suspicion to Dechs. He has scum hunted hard and pushed wagons a little to hard early game. I think he missed the RCW wagon as well. He could be scum or town that was just not active at that time. Rez is hard to read
sometimes, but he has contributed more than others for town with reads and opinions.
Jones could very well be scum. I'm not too keen on the way he hammered when Ham said he would do it, thus painting Ham in a bad light. He could have at least waited until it was clear that Ham wouldn't be back. Another great comment that I share an agreement with. MoJo's hammer was fast and rather hasty. The claim of not knowing the hammer seems wrong as he saw the wagon and voted right away. Not counting the votes appears scum bussing RCW. The evidence is circumstantial and subjective thought. It's a gut call in my opinion.

Now onto to you. I can't call you as being town, but loosing your role could be bad for town. Iamopen2 lied big time in my first game and I fell for it. Thus pardon my distrust. For now,

Unvote

After sleeping on your claim, I think leaving you alone for today is best for town.

My
next best read is MoJo with that hammer and claim of unknowingly committing the hammer.

Vote MoJo The dude seriously needs a shorter username in playing Mafia.

Anyone else think MoJo is suspect? Reasons I am voting him:
1. CM early game is lurking bad (I noted the sickness, but he could have scum hunted more earlier)
2. MoJo takes over and pretty much votes RCW immediately. MoJo kind has the perfect set up as he has a shield of ignorance from him and us as no one has read till he votes. No one suspects anything till he claims in response to Ham that he unknowingly hammers Rcw. If he just said I hammer RCW and not acted defensive about; I would have let that go.
3. Being defensive about the hammer
4. Utilizing some weird ability on Ham to prevent mail from reaching Ham. Vindictive over something rather trivial? Why?
5. NO scum hunting since.
6. Continued Lurking.[/
quote]

[RedNihilist]

How about YOUR role ham? '-'

[hamfactorial]

Thanks Red, I appreciate it. Sifting through Wraith's inline comments is very difficult. Did he say it was a permanent ability or an X-shot?

I'm going to think about how Wraith's ability fits into my scheme and post again later today. I will claim as part of it.

[hamfactorial]

I have a proposal that may help us figure out alignment. To start with, I'll claim. I'm Carl Schliff, the postman from Dead Rising. I'm town, and I have a 1-shot night ability called "Letter Bomb" that lets me include a bomb with my sent mail. The player who receives it will be killed.

Looking back at raspy's role PM, we see that both abilities (Steal and Forge) targeted a player who was sending mail.

Jack has claimed that his night ability lets him make a player untargetable. I propose that he use it on me so that my letter bomb can't be interfered with tonight. It can still be rerouted, of course, or sent back to me via a day ability (assuming MoJo wasn't just using a clever gambit at the end of day 1), so it isn't foolproof.

I won't say who my target is publicly, so that the scum team, fearing my totes amaze reads, has to waste a redirect/bulletproof/other ability tonight instead of messing with
the mail and furthering their plans.

Looking at the mafiascum wiki, a vig is a traditionally town role. If my kill goes through, you'll have me as confirmed town.

If my mail somehow comes back to me and I die, I'll be confirmed town when you see my role PM. Either way, confirmed town (including dead town) is a good thing.

This also gives other players a chance to step up and confirm their towniness. If Jack is lying about his role, you'll know on day 3 because I'll be dead. Wraith is a roleblocker, so I'd kindly ask that he not block Jack. If MoJo bounces my mail and I flip town from my own big, he's actively working against town interests and should be strung up on day 3. Red may find some interesting way to watch the mail during this whole thing.

If there's a town Doctor, he can keep C_P alive, or another strong town read, to more heavily tilt the ratio in town's favor going into day 3.

This scheme lets me use my ability in a smart way instead of going off half-cocked on a given
night, to unexpected results.

Thoughts? Concerns? Daytime assassination attempts?

[Jack]

Except I'd have to know your target for that to work.

[Jack]

Oh, misread that. Use it on you. Got it.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's a really good plan. And you're now 99% town to me.