Dies to Removal

Is az done telling us all what to do yet?

Also if imopen roleclaims hell either be confirmed town or confirmed scum but whatever.

Will he be confirmed town as a result of your killing him, or will he be confirmed town based on something else?

If the latter, then yeah, he should claim.

I refuse to partake in Az's plan so help yourself to that.

So much better to use that vig unilaterally than to 2nd lynch, amirite

The latter.

And hey, remember when not following Az's plan meant I was being unilateral? Yeah, bite me Az.

The latter.

And hey, remember when not following Az's plan meant I was being unilateral? Yeah, bite me Az.

All I'm saying is what I've been saying since yesterday. Use it as a 2nd lynch, with the consensus of a lynch majority of the entire town. If that's ham, great. If it's not Ham, shucks, but at least we can regroup over the rest of the day.

But hey, if you know better how to pick that kill than everyone working together, fire away, you big strong sexy man.

Where did I say that? Youre really getting on my nerves just making things up and saying thats what I'm doing. How fucking arrogant are you?

Where you said you weren't going along with Az's plan. His plan was see if we can get a bunch of votes on someone, then you shoot the someone. When you said you're not going along with that plan, you said you were going to unilaterally shoot someone.

Man you are being dense.

Its like theres no middle ground with you people.

You don't have any middle ground. You're just "Az is fucking arrogant and I'm not doing anything he says."

I'm not going to refute the first part, I'm just saying that's how you come across.

I don't get how refusing to be ordered around is wrong.
Let him play as he pleases

He wasn't being ordered around. Az just asked us to come to a consensus on who MoJo should shoot. It is the best thing for town.

He doesn't *have* to follow our "consensus", and I don't actually see why the matter came up in the first place.
He can shot anyone he wants as long as he actually does, we're still getting informations from that.
Directing power roles, on the other hand, is a good way to lose focus.

We even collect infos from his choice about who he's shooting, as long as we avoid treating him like a proxy for the next lynch.

If we treat it like a second lynch, we get even more info. We essentially get two wagons to analyze without allowing the scum team a night kill in between. There is absolutely no reason for MoJo to not do it that way if he's a town player.

So yeah, I'm voting MoJo until he shoot someone, because if he lied, I want him to hang.

vig choice Ham

You didn't mind dying last time, why not be a sport and do it again?

The proper way to roll is to let MoJo decide his own vig target and quit riding Az's coat tails.

Seriously? Argue how letting one player decide is better than letting eight players decide.

There is absolutely no logical reason to do that.

There are two players (possibly 3) who think I'm scum, so the wisdom of the masses is clearly not working in our favor here.

The two/three players would be wanting to lynch you anyway. By directing the dayvig as if it's a lynch, we lynch twice in one day. Two wagons and no night kill.

I am baffled by the idiocy. There is certainly middle ground.

The two/three players would be wanting to lynch you anyway. By directing the dayvig as if it's a lynch, we lynch twice in one day. Two wagons and no night kill.

Maybe, but you'll have to be extra careful with your choices. I know you are wrong, so I'm inclined to disregard all of your suggestions. This is probably some sort of fallacy, but I don't know the name.

If the scenario you laid out is true (GR was 1/2 scum), there are 2 scum left. When I get vigged, you'll still have 2 scum. Think you can lynch one? The only player I've appeared to work with was GR (if you believe Az), so you won't get any associative tells from my flip and MoJo will be confirmed town (OR WILL HE?)

If you don't nail a scum after my vig, you're in mylo tomorrow.

If GR was full scum, sure, vig the shit out of me. I'll type out smilies from the dead thread at you.

Anyway, get me to 4 votes and I'll claim. Then you can decide whether you'd rather have my device active or my role PM.

I am baffled by the idiocy. There is certainly middle ground.

I suppose there's a nice middle ground where you politely listen to us first, and then still make the decision on your own unilaterally instead of agreeing to be bound by the town's lynch decision.

Not much of a middle ground in my estimation, though. The process of reaching a 2nd lynch is intrinsically more useful to the town.

Aside from the likelihood of the town as a whole coming to a better decision than any single person, using vig-shots as a second lynch A) produces far more information regarding a far wider range of players, and B) Moves the town agenda/
research queue forward more rapidly - because if a majority of players are "stuck" on a particular wagon, they can be remobilized to research in new and different places.

I don't know what advantage you expect to gain from making the decision on your own. Unless you're more interested in having the fun of making the choice on your own, or you think our own judgment is that much better than the other players, and you don't care about any of the informational and research benefits of converting your vig into a lynch, I don't see the sense in this.

The two/three players would be wanting to lynch you anyway. By directing the dayvig as if it's a lynch, we lynch twice in one day. Two wagons and no night kill.

Maybe, but you'll have to be extra careful with your choices. I know you are wrong, so I'm inclined to disregard all of your suggestions. This is probably some sort of fallacy, but I don't know the name.

If the scenario you laid out is true (GR was 1/2 scum), there are 2 scum left. When I get vigged, you'll still have 2 scum. Think you can lynch one? The only player I've appeared to work with was GR (if you believe Az), so you won't get any associative tells from my flip and MoJo will be confirmed town (OR WILL HE?)

If you
don't nail a scum after my vig, you're in mylo tomorrow.

If GR was full scum, sure, vig the shit out of me. I'll type out smilies from the dead thread at you.

Anyway, get me to 4 votes and I'll claim. Then you can decide whether you'd rather have my device active or my role PM.

Let's just review GR's role PM, shall we?

( G_R ), you are Bad Cop.
You and your robot police force have been tasked with tracking down the piece of resistance, and you’re going to make darn sure you send it and the special to the bottom of the ocean. You’ve got a chair handy just in case you need something to kick, but for now, you’ve got a job to do.
You win when the universe is under your control.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote. At
Night, you may be selected to perform the Mafia nightkill.
You may communicate with the mafia using this quicktopic: xxx
Bad Cop – On odd numbered Nights, you may jail a player. That player will be untargetable and unable to use any abilities that Night.
Good Cop – On even numbered Nights, you will give a result of "town" to any cop results. You may also protect a player. That player will be immune to nightkills that Night.

Note several things.

1. Contrary to GR's claim that he didn't know who the mafia are, he's given access to the mafia quick-topic. This in and of itself makes a dual alignment role as he described completely unworkable. With knowledge of who the mafia are, GR could simply turn in his entire team when it was advantageous to him, and blow up the entire game.
2. His role PM doesn't contain two win conditions as he claimed, just the one.

Also, if anyone has lingering doubts about Ham, read these two quotes together and tell me he wasn't trying to pull fast one on us:

Bad Cop – On odd numbered Nights, you may jail a player. That player will be untargetable and unable to use any abilities that Night.
Good Cop – On even numbered Nights, you will give a result of "town" to any cop results. You may also protect a player. That player will be immune to nightkills that Night.

GR's role sounds quite valuable. If I understand correctly, GR, you can jail someone tonight and you become a Miller, so investigations N1 or D2 return guilty. Tomorrow night you can doc, lose Miller, and any investigations N2 or D3 will return innocent.
n
Easy enough to verify if we have a cop.

What's your default status if you don't choose an action tonight?

If Ham had his way, we would have wasted a cop investigation and "confirmed" a mafia player as town in one fell swoop.

Likewise, we should NOT put Ham up to four votes. In the event this game DOES have three scum, putting Ham up to four votes would allow him to self-lynch, and deprive us of Mojo's vig-kill.

Four people who say they want his claim/lynch should be sufficient.

So far, we have me, DK, and RN.

Not claiming until L-1. If scum wants to hammer me, let them, I'm not going to do it.

If MoJo wants to vig, he should do it before I get into hammer range for the reason Az stated above.

Also, if anyone has lingering doubts about Ham, read these two quotes together and tell me he wasn't trying to pull fast one on us:

Bad Cop – On odd numbered Nights, you may jail a player. That player will be untargetable and unable to use any abilities that Night.
Good Cop – On even numbered Nights, you will give a result of "town" to any cop results. You may also protect a player. That player will be immune to nightkills that Night.

GR's role sounds quite valuable. If I understand correctly, GR, you can jail someone
tonight and you become a Miller, so investigations N1 or D2 return guilty. Tomorrow night you can doc, lose Miller, and any investigations N2 or D3 will return innocent.

Easy enough to verify if we have a cop.

What's your default status if you don't choose an action tonight?

If Ham had his way, we would have wasted a cop investigation and "confirmed" a mafia player as town in one fell swoop.

What in Davy Jones’ locker did ye just bark at me, ye scurvy bilgerat? I’ll have ye know I be the meanest cutthroat on the seven seas, and I’ve led numerous raids on fishing villages, and raped over 300 wenches. I be trained in hit-and-run pillaging and be the deadliest with a pistol of all the captains on the high seas. Ye be nothing to me but another source o’ swag. I’ll have yer guts for garters and keel haul ye like never been done before, hear me true. You think ye can hide behind your newfangled computing device? Think twice on that, scallywag. As we parley I
be contacting my secret network o’ pirates across the sea and yer port is being tracked right now so ye better prepare for the typhoon, weevil. The kind o’ monsoon that’ll wipe ye off the map. You’re sharkbait, fool. I can sail anywhere, in any waters, and can kill ye in o’er seven hundred ways, and that be just with me hook and fist. Not only do I be top o’ the line with a cutlass, but I have an entire pirate fleet at my beck and call and I’ll damned sure use it all to wipe yer arse off o’ the world, ye dog. If only ye had had the foresight to know what devilish wrath your jibe was about to incur, ye might have belayed the comment. But ye couldn’t, ye didn’t, and now ye’ll pay the ultimate toll, you buffoon. I’ll shit fury all over ye and ye’ll drown in the depths o’ it.

I am baffled by the idiocy. There is certainly middle ground.

I suppose there's a nice middle ground where you politely listen to us first, and then still make the decision on your own unilaterally instead of agreeing to be bound by the town's lynch decision.

Not much of a middle ground in my estimation, though. The process of reaching a 2nd lynch is intrinsically more useful to the town.

Aside from the likelihood of the town as a whole coming to a better
decision than any single person, using vig-shots as a second lynch A) produces far more information regarding a far wider range of players, and B) Moves the town agenda/research queue forward more rapidly - because if a majority of players are "stuck" on a particular wagon, they can be remobilized to research in new and different places.

I don't know what advantage you expect to gain from making the decision on your own. Unless you're more interested in having the fun of making the choice on your own, or you think our own judgment is that much better than the other players, and you don't care about any of the informational and research benefits of converting your vig into a lynch, I don't see the sense in this.

Shoot who three people voting once.
Shoot who I want with zero input.

Really Az? Those are the only two ways this will play out? Stfu dude.

This is what I find most disturbing from Ham, but it's probably because it's personal.

Dechs playing up that newbie card, despite not leaning on it in our previous two games. Sup with that?

As I replied to him immediately, I threw the newbie card very heavily in those first games. I came out of the gate swinging it as scum in Gone Postal and I think it saved me from at least one lynch. I was even harder on it as a townie in the WePick.

I am baffled by the idiocy. There is certainly middle ground.

Really Az? Those are the only two ways this will play out? Stfu dude.

Dude, reread the post. Starting with the first line.

One more day and imopen2 will enter the prodzone. Just sayin'.

I am baffled by the idiocy. There is certainly middle ground.

Really Az? Those are the only two ways this will play out? Stfu dude.

Dude, reread the post. Starting with the first line.

nYep. I did. If youre going to act retarded, I'm just going to lurk. This game is approaching stupid levels. It doesnt matter what anyone says to anyone. Az lets them know if its okay or not. I say we just let Az decide all our actions, then ask stardust to simulate the rest of the game.

Hurrrr theres only two ways this could play out, durrrrrr.

Hurrrrr, everyone do what Az says or theyre not playing well.

If you've got a better plan, feel free to share your thoughts.

The town is struggling with a vacuum of leadership and momentum. Someone needs to fill it. I'm fine if that's people other than me, but those people will have to actually step up, share their thoughts, and start participating.

Remember when I said hey I think imopen shoukd claim and before I could take that further you said "nah he wont".

This is not an isolated incident. I'm not bothering anymore. Everyone do what Az says and maybe ill follow maybe I wont.