[Primer] Boros Burn

[Elricity]

Was running some tests with a friend with the naya planeswalker monsters version and Boros Reckoner was causing him fits. Does the non jund version just have to hope that that can gore-clan rampager over it or mortars it early or is this just a case of "don't play anything but Jund monsters if you are going GRx midrange"?

I'm selfishly asking so that I can try and kill more monsters or green devotion decks with burn, of course.

[BlakLanner]

Against the general meta, Jund is better than Naya due to the extra removal. However, if you are expecting a lot of Jund (which is on the decline), Naya is a good call since Elspeth causes Jund all kinds of problems if you live long enough to deploy it. Against Reckoner, they either have to Rampager or Banishing Light it to beat it.

[Valdarith]

Was running some tests with a friend with the naya planeswalker monsters version and Boros Reckoner was causing him fits. Does the non jund version just have to hope that that can gore-clan rampager over it or mortars it early or is this just a case of "don't play anything but Jund monsters if you are going GRx midrange"?

I'm selfishly asking so that I can try and kill more monsters or green devotion decks with burn, of course.

GR has to Mortars it or trample over it with Ghor-Clan. No other option really unless you count flying over the top with Stormbreath Dragon. Fighting with Domri isn't exactly optimal but I've done it a few times and it never feels good.

[zenbitz]

I notice most of the reckoner sideboards also have flamespeaker. Is this just a temporal coincidence, or am I missing something?

[BrainsickHater]

Shota made a list that boarded Reckoner + Flamespeaker. Many lists that board Reckoner are mimicking the list and thus also run Flamespeaker.

[Purp]

Hivemind. That's why.

[LaZerBurn]

If I was too play a standard MOCS tomorrow this is the list I'll run:

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
1 Mana Confluence

Creatures 08
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments and Removal 05
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars

Burns 24
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Banishing Light
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Mutavault
1 Reprisal[/deck]

Why Assemble the legions? Its still the I-WIN button vs Bx Devo (which is the most common Bx Devo list)
Why 3 Mizzium Mortars? Its the most simple answer
for Ux Devo and other aggro builds
Why 4th vaults? Good vs control and when you want too control

I just put Assemble back in my SB at the weekend too

[zemanjaski]

Hivemind. That's why.

It is a really good card.

And as someone who has repeatedly messaged me for sideboarding advice, critiquing other players for deferring to a better players understanding of strategy is a bit lame.

[dpaine88]

Blah...all I can think about is how I stole a game 1 vs Reid Duke then lost games 2 and 3. I was 5-0 at that time.

I feel like I punted so bad...hopefully you guys can clear it up for me.

I am at a decent life total, like 18 or 20.

I have:
Lightning Strike in hand
tons of lands(flooding)but have mutavault.
2(then 3) Phoenix's
1 Young Pyro
3(then 4) Young Pyro tokens

He has:
Jace
Frostburn Weird
4 lands
1or 2 card in hand
13 Life

He plays the Jace and ticks up Jace. I lightning Strike it EOT. Then I attack with my 2 Phoenix and kill it.

He plays a 2nd Jace and ticks up. I draw another Phoenix and attack Jace.

He plays Tidebinder and taps my Phoenix.

I draw more land and attack and kill Jace.

He plays yet another Jace and ticks up. I get Jace to 1.

My memory is a little foggy here but basically he had Jace 3 turns in a row and then killed me with a big Master and I just drew nothing
really.

If I had just attacked him each time, he might have been dead. But maybe he would have -2 Jace then played the other and Ticked up and then played stuff and won so who knows...

I just wanted to get a turn where I could attack with all my tokens, YP and Mutavault so I just kept killing Jace.

I figured whats the chance he draws ALL THREE of the copies he runs in the sideboard- basically in a Row...

[LP, of the Fires]

If you don't kill jace, you have a 5 turn clock barring him drawing fliers/domesticatins/master of waves outracing you so given those odds, I'd have killed at least the first jace and revaluated from there. When he moves on to playing second jace and locking down one of your birds, then you have to start thinking about attacking him and hoping to draw gas.

[Purp]

Hivemind. That's why.

It is a really good card.

And as someone who has repeatedly messaged me for sideboarding advice, critiquing other players for deferring to a better players understanding of strategy is a bit lame.

You must of thought I meant the word hivemind meant "cause zeman does it". I meant that most of us tend to run very similar lists until we find a reason for changing it drastically (ie: not running reckoner but still running flamespeaker). If twice = repeatedly, then you really need to reevaluate your understanding of the english language. Please,
get your head out of your ass.

[Purp]

Drawing the 3rd jace was just SO lucky on his part. 2 jaces is already hard enough to beat, 3 just seems damn near impossible.

Did he say anything about it after?

[BrainsickHater]

Lately I haven't been able to play much magic and I've been consistently doing poorly at FNMs. I hope it's just my lack of play-time and me screwing up that's causing my losses.

The last two times I've gone to FNM, they were really small and I played against the same guy playing a Bant Sphinx's Rev deck, and I just couldn't quite beat it. The first day I played it I threw too much burn at planeswalkers and didn't have enough to close out the game, G2 I won very handily, and G3 I lost when my opponent mulled to 5 (so embarassing). I put a lot of eggs into Chandra and Flamespeaker, thinking that my Boros Charm would protect them. But the only "destroy" removal in his deck was Supreme Verdict, which I pretty much knew. For some stupid reason I took that line anyway and lost when he killed the threats I was banking on and drew some more lands.

Later that day I lost to a Jund Constellation deck (GB
Constellation splashing R for Rakdos' Return). The only game I really remember was Game 3, where I had him on the ropes and then he Returned me for 3, emptying my hand after I responded with burn (I did so because that let me use two spells as opposed to the one I would be left with in my 4-card hand). I eventually drew into a Chandra and things were going well until a Doomwake Giant hit the battlefield. I was pressured to either end the game (with 6 points of damage) or find removal, fearing a Strength From the Fallen. I drew Boros Charm and revealed Chandra's Phoenix, and I went for the kill without noticing the 3 mana my opponent had up. He responded to my Boros Charm with the Crypt Incursion I knew he had boarded in and gained 15 life. He did have Strength from the Fallen as well, but I'm fairly certain that if I had slow-rolled the Boros Charm I would have won that game.

The second FNM I went to recently, I again lost to the Bant player. Game 1 I won handily, Game 2 I lost to triple Courser
beats + not drawing efficient removal. Game 3 I lost by not having the 1 point of damage needed to kill him before he swung for lethal next turn. The two things that stuck out to me that kept me from having that point of damage were the following:
1. Not Skullcracking a Courser trigger (in case he had revelation)
2. Boarding in Flamespeaker. Against most UWx decks Flamespeaker is solid, but against the deck that plays Courser + Caryatid + Advent of the Wurm it's a tad awkward. For some reason I hadn't realized this across 2 matches and 6 games.

The next match I lost was to mono-blue. Game 1 my opponent had Master and I had no answer, Game 2 I couldn't draw a white source to answer the master she played with my Banishing Light. She followed it up with another master tho, so I guess it wasn't very relevant. I'm really hating Monoblue, it feels like 85% of the games are decided by whether or not I have an answer for my opponent's masters.

My boarding for monoblue (with the Yasooka build)
is as follows: -4 Skullcrack, -4 Boros Charm, +1 MM, +2 Banishing Light, +3 Flamespeaker, +1 W//T, +1 Chandra
I am considering changing it to: -4 Shock, -4 Skullcrack, -4 Boros Charm, +4 Boros Reckoner, +3 Flamespeaker, +1 MM, +1 W//T, +1 Chandra, +2 Banishing Light
But I'm unsure if this is correct as Shock feels decently strong in the matchup.

Dunno why I made this post, mostly just raging at myself and have to vent a little.

[Purp]

Fuck Mono U.

[Purp]

I'd be hesitant to cut shock because it will leave you so weak to a 2 early fliers draw.

[zemanjaski]

Hivemind. That's why.

It is a really good card.

And as someone who has repeatedly messaged me for sideboarding advice, critiquing other players for deferring to a better players understanding of strategy is a bit lame.

You must of thought I meant the word hivemind meant "cause zeman does it". I meant that most of us tend to run very similar lists until we find a reason for changing it drastically (ie: not
running reckoner but still running flamespeaker). If twice = repeatedly, then you really need to reevaluate your understanding of the english language. Please, get your head out of your ass.

Between Facebook, private messages and public requests it's a lot more than twice.

And I know exactly what hivemind means, there was no suggestion it had anything to do with me. I certainly didn't think to add the card to the board. Someone is feeling very insecure today it would seem.

You've become awfully precious since I stopped spoon feeding you information.

[Purp]

You've become incredibly egotistical, beyond DtR and Reddit, you aren't shit. You seem to constantly be reminded that you are not as good as you think you are.

[zemanjaski]

I've always been like this, you're just experiencing the bad side of it now.

[zemanjaski]

Despite my many flaws, I still help people and have contributions and achievements far in excess of yours. I'm not a good person, but I'm a damn good magic player. You went sour when you branched off to do your own thing and I wouldn't endorse your choices; I can respect a need for validation and affirmation from one's peers but you're basically acting like you're being persecuted.

You'll find existence a lot happier if you just accept that I'm not nice and that I don't give sideboard advice.

[Purp]

My feelings are far from hurt, it's the internet.

[LP, of the Fires]

"Too many nigga's, and not enough ho's and most of ya'll nigga's, acting like ho's".

Too many fucking feelings in here.

[Elricity]

Hivemind. That's why.

It is a really good card.

And as someone who has repeatedly messaged me for sideboarding advice, critiquing other players for deferring to a better players understanding of strategy is a bit lame.

You must of thought I meant the word hivemind meant "cause zeman does it". I meant that most of us tend to run very similar lists until we find a reason for changing it drastically (ie: not
running reckoner but still running flamespeaker). If twice = repeatedly, then you really need to reevaluate your understanding of the english language. Please, get your head out of your ass.

It is pretty obvious he was referring to Shouta, not himself, and honestly, I took the same impression of your posts whenever this topic comes up. However, I don't know the group that well though so I can't tell if you're being sincere and I'm misreading it or if you actually are shooting between a mix of dismissiveness and passive aggressiveness.

So, yeah.

[Tyrael]

I've never met anyone this self-absorbed

fascinating stuff

[Elricity]

So anyway, back to the topic of setting people on fire. I agree with Purp that cutting shock is a bad idea when it kills 12 guys, particularly judge's familiar which is aggravating. Plus YP tokens are at their best here. Also, if you are on the flamespeaker plan, you really want shock to punch through all their guys.

Fuck auto correct on this phone is annoying.

[Purp]

The lack of searing blood makes the ability to justify pointing burn at their face much harder in my experience.

[zemanjaski]

Shock plus Mortars are tried and tested and very effective. Mortars in particular offer excellent synergy with YP and disrupt their curve with mana parity, also let you save Chains/Light for Master AND win at six mana (though counters complicate that).

Probably want at least three mortars in the 75, maybe 4.

I'd also echo MDU's advice to go back to assembke; straight MBC is back in force and it's the most brutal card for that matchup.

[zemanjaski]

Searing Blood is pretty lame;
- only kills what shock does at twice the price
- doesn't find you relevant cards like jet

So it's only upside is in racing, but that's hard when it can't kill Weird or Specter. I mean, it's totally fine, but it's the weakest 2 damage spell in the matchup IMO. Play more mortars it does everything you need. You may be able to find room for a Soark Trooper if you're not on 4 'vault.

I think Reckoner can leave the SB now too; mono black and mono u in ascendency means monsters will decline now. That should free up a lot of space. Ill crunch some numbers later.

[Purp]

Players at my LGS play 4 negate and 3-4 rapid hybridization. -4 Skullcrack -4 Boros Charm (+1 BC -1WLH) +2 BL +3 Flamespeaker +3 Mortars did not do it for me my past two paper matches vs U.

[Purp]

Granted, I feel like they were drawing the nuts.

[LP, of the Fires]

Well, if you just want to win that particular matchup, play firedancer.

You can also try not bringing in flamespeaker and leaving in boros charm. Having more 4 damage spells makes it a LOT easier to assemble 20 points of lethal.

[zemanjaski]

It does but you'll almost never win on the draw in that configuration.

[zemanjaski]

My feelings are far from hurt, it's the internet.

This was funny.

Also people ask for pictures with me at events, I'm obviously the biggest deal around.

[Lightning_Dolt]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=241952#p241952:3f4526eb]zemanjaski » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:13 pm[/url:3f4526eb]":3f4526eb]Despite my many flaws, I still help people and have contributions and achievements far in excess of yours. I'm not a good person, but I'm a damn good magic player. You went sour when you branched off to do your own thing and I wouldn't endorse your choices; I can respect a need for validation and affirmation from one's peers but you're basically acting like you're being persecuted.

You'll find existence a lot happier if you just accept that I'm not nice and that I don't give sideboard advice.[/quote:3f4526eb]

I still believe you're a good person Z, but you have your flaws just like everyone else. I still believe you're a fundamentally good person though, even when you come off like you aren't.

[Rhyno]

By what definition of good? I'm sure Zem doesn't kick babies or anything.

[ChrisMachado]

By what definition of good? I'm sure Zem doesn't kick babies or anything.

Dude, we all know you gotta get the meat soft before the barbecue. What's best way to do so, then kicking?

[zemanjaski]

Puppies are one of my only loves. They're so kewt.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Z helps people he doesn't have to. He shares what he doesn't have to. He cares about people he's never met. He teaches people he has no responsibility for. In my mind, those things alone make him a good person.

[Rhyno]

Z helps people he doesn't have to. He shares what he doesn't have to. He cares about people he's never met. He teaches people he has no responsibility for. In my mind, those things alone make him a good person.

Yeah but he doesn't give sideboard advice

[LP, of the Fires]

I don't really believe in good or bad people(aside from extremes like hitler/mother theresa). We're all just...people.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I believe in good and bad. I'm not friends with bad people. I consider Z a friend and he is a good person.