Dies to Removal

At any rate, I'm still not moving off until you claim. What are you afraid of by claiming? You've already hinted at some role and used this pseudo-claim to justify your lynch of Yanni, which is a wagon you avoided to push for the lynch of khadaffi. It is outrageous to withhold this information from the town, which is undoubtedly pertinent to our efforts.

Alright, vote manders. I'm not sure but it seems like a mislynch would be better than a no lynch at this point

Deadline/Votecount
The Guardian (1)- Ximbad
Manders (4)- (G_R), PhantomS, Mogadishu Jones, Imopen2
Not voting: Manders, The Guardian
5 to lynch with 7 Alive
After a Long Day of Bickering everyone decides they'd rather just go to sleep then lynch someone.



It Is Now Night

Night Will End Late Saturday/ Monday Morning

After the long day before the group gathers again in the morning. Bleakly you acknowledge that imopen2 is missing. All you find of them is a few pink strands of hair.
imopen2 was Princess Bubblegum (Town Vanilla)

Those who killed the beloved ruler must pay.

It is now Day Four
It is 4 to lynch with 6 Alive

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

I absolutely will not, other than to say someone visited me again last night.

As it couldn't have been imopen2 this time, and no one's claiming to have done it, it's obvious to me scum is targeting me...though I know not with what.

I'm going to have to re-read this game. imopen2 dying makes no sense. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me atm is that someone on the scum team is a vet who's smart enough to not go after the other vets.


Also, PhantomS, before D2 ended, you asked me why I never pointed out that my use of the word "claim" was referring to two different claims. The answer is I didn't
think of it until I mentioned it.

Now, why are you fabricating evidence?

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

I absolutely will not, other than to say someone visited me again last night.

As it couldn't have been imopen2 this time, and no one's claiming to have done it, it's obvious to me scum is targeting me...though I know not with what.

I'm going to have to re-read this game. imopen2 dying makes no sense. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me atm is that someone on the scum team is a vet who's smart enough to not go after the other vets.


Also,
PhantomS, before D2 ended, you asked me why I never pointed out that my use of the word "claim" was referring to two different claims. The answer is I didn't think of it until I mentioned it.

Now, why are you fabricating evidence?

Point me to my fabrication and explain how you not claiming could possibly be beneficial to the town.

At this point everyone should claim so if Manders refuses we lynch her.

If she does not refuse we lynch the guardian.

Manders, what needs to happen for you to claim? Do you agree that if you are in fact town and get mislynched because of this, it would put us in a difficult position?

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

I absolutely will not, other than to say someone visited me again last night.

As it couldn't have been imopen2 this time, and no one's claiming to have done it, it's obvious to me scum is targeting me...though I know not with what.

I'm going to have to re-read this game. imopen2 dying makes no sense. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me atm is that someone on the scum team is a vet who's smart enough to not go after the other vets.


Also,
PhantomS, before D2 ended, you asked me why I never pointed out that my use of the word "claim" was referring to two different claims. The answer is I didn't think of it until I mentioned it.

Now, why are you fabricating evidence?

You said you had proof the guardian was town. You said you had proof you were town. If you can push that forward we'll be able to look for scum elsewhere. If you don't we will almost certainly either lynch you or the guardian. We need everything we can get today: you already stalled out yesterday, is that your plan for today to?

At this point everyone should claim so if Manders refuses we lynch her.

If she does not refuse we lynch the guardian.

I like this plan. Of course, I've already claimed.

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

I absolutely will not, other than to say someone visited me again last night.

As it couldn't have been imopen2 this time, and no one's claiming to have done it, it's obvious to me scum is targeting me...though I know not with what.

I'm going to have to re-read this game. imopen2
dying makes no sense. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me atm is that someone on the scum team is a vet who's smart enough to not go after the other vets.


Also, PhantomS, before D2 ended, you asked me why I never pointed out that my use of the word "claim" was referring to two different claims. The answer is I didn't think of it until I mentioned it.

Now, why are you fabricating evidence?

Point me to my fabrication and explain how you not claiming could possibly be beneficial to the town.

I'll point you to it when I have time, but I'll tell you that you went and found a post from me to use as evidence and was less than honest about the context of my statement. Iirc, the post you quoted made it quite obvious what claim I was talking about, so I find it hard to believe that was an innocent mistake.

If I explain to you how my not claiming would be beneficial to the town, it would make it not beneficial anymore.

At this point everyone should claim so if Manders refuses we lynch her.

If she does not refuse we lynch the guardian.

It is a really bad idea for me to claim, but if this is what the majority want to do, I will oblige, but only if I claim last. You're just going to have to trust me on this, kpaca Jones. (I gotta get used to that.)

Manders, what needs to happen for you to claim?

The above mentioned scenario, or an actual case has to be presented which leads to me
being voted to L-2. I will not claim from a case filled with misinformation and gut.

Do you agree that if you are in fact town and get mislynched because of this, it would put us in a difficult position?

Yes and no, but I can't elaborate on that. It will ruin everything.

Manders, it is imperative that you claim.

I absolutely will not, other than to say someone visited me again last night.

As it couldn't have been imopen2 this time, and no one's
claiming to have done it, it's obvious to me scum is targeting me...though I know not with what.

I'm going to have to re-read this game. imopen2 dying makes no sense. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me atm is that someone on the scum team is a vet who's smart enough to not go after the other vets.


Also, PhantomS, before D2 ended, you asked me why I never pointed out that my use of the word "claim" was referring to two different claims. The answer is I didn't think of it until I mentioned it.

Now, why are you fabricating evidence?

You said you had proof the guardian was town. You said you had proof you were town. If you can push that forward we'll be able to look for scum elsewhere. If you don't we will almost certainly either lynch you or the guardian. We need everything we can get today: you already stalled out yesterday, is that your plan for today to?

I
said I believe him to be town, and that I could show why that is. I never did because questions I posted never got answered.

I have WIFOM. Occam's Razor of the WIFOM would point to me being town, but it's WIFOM nonetheless.

And I did not stall out yesterday. There was no valid case presented against me. Why should I have claimed yesterday? I never even got voted to L-2.

At this point everyone should claim so if Manders refuses we lynch her.

If she does not refuse we lynch the guardian.

I like this plan. Of course, I've already claimed.

I must have missed this or have forgotten.

Look, I plan to devote time to
this game on Friday. Re-reading and posting my thoughts. I still have a lot of questions I need to look into. You guys seem to be in a hurry to end this day or something, talking about claims and such, but I ask that you give me time to investigate my suspicions.

How can it be said that we're in a hurry to end the day if nobody has even voted?

The claiming isn't to end the day, it's to give us things to work on for the day, because either you're the typical cryptic say something but don't say everything hope I don't get lynched or you have information that benefits the town.

@manders: you didn't bring up any new information in your last post. The only new info is the fact that you'll claim last, but only if everyone wants you to. Nearly everyone wants you to claim.
I don't plan to trust that you don't need to claim.

Manders,

What in any of your gaming experience at salvation makes you think this cryptic claiming in mis-lynch or lose is a good idea? We are one simple misstep away from losing. Doesn't matter if the mafia knows your a PR or not, especially since you have been implying that you have been getting roleblocked recently (after all, if someone is targeting you and your the last PR, it doesn't take a smart guy to put 2 and 2 together.

I really REALLY dislike the tone of G_Rs last post.

I mean, if you are really a PR, it seems obvious that you are untargatable or bulletproof.

How is my post any different from yours?

Two ways:

1). The tone

The way you about asking: "What can we do" makes it sound like you are trying to appeal to her, rather than explaining why she should be.

2). The lack of attention to detail

Her being mislynched doesn't put the town in a bad position. What happens is that we outright lose...

6 alive with 2 mafia. Simple math is your friend here.

That's why I dislike your post, and even your last one tries to justify your post by comparing it to mine. I feel pretty confidant in my scum read on you now, unless Manders has something to share.

Two ways:

1). The tone

The way you about asking: "What can we do" makes it sound like you are trying to appeal to her, rather than explaining why she should be.

2). The lack of attention to detail

Her being mislynched doesn't put the town in a bad position. What happens is that we outright lose...

6 alive with 2 mafia. Simple math is your friend here.

That's why I dislike your post, and even your last one tries to justify your post by comparing it to mine. I feel pretty confidant in my scum read on you now, unless Manders has something to share.

1. I didn't say "what can we do?". I asked "what needs to happen?". Like, her stubbornness to not claim if she is
town can cost us the game. Unless she is NOT town, which is what I'm trying to establish.
2. So? I miscounted. I see our posts:

Manders, what needs to happen for you to claim?

Manders,

What in any of your gaming experience at salvation makes you think this cryptic claiming in mis-lynch or lose is a good idea?

Do you agree that if you are in fact town and get mislynched because of this, it would put us in a difficult position?

We are one simple misstep away from losing.

A question and a warning. They look pretty similar to me. I didn't even think my post needed defending in the first place.

I still think manders claims and we lynch the guardian.

How can it be said that we're in a hurry to end the day if nobody has even voted?

The claiming isn't to end the day, it's to give us things to work on for the day, because either you're the typical cryptic say something but don't say everything hope I don't get lynched or you have information that benefits the town.

Answer my fucking question, goddammit.

In fact, here. Let me do some of the work I promised to do.

Here, this post shows it all:

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni

nLike, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL, lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.

As you can see, my first post is stating that I'm not going to presume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. If you click the link that goes to that original post, you can see that I'm referring, not to his role claim, but his night action claim.
My second post is voting Yanni for lying about his role.

PhantomS uses these two posts as a platform for an accusation of "being inconsistent." Now, inconsistency is a pretty good scumtell because it usually means someone is making the shit up as
they go along. However, anyone with half a brain can see that the subjects of these two posts are completely unrelated.

So, my question is, why did PhantomS use this information? Luckily for me, when I was searching for this post, I saw something else that caught my eye:

Well guys, I kind of screwed the pooch on this one. I am the Flame Princess and I was a one-shot vig (town, obviously). Last night I targeted Captain Murphy because the entire game he seemed to be very passively guiding the conversation. There's not much else I can say than that I fucked up on this one.

Yesterday went by really quickly but I think some things of value can be gathered. For starters, we need to hear from EVERYBODY today. No exceptions.

Off the top of my head I would think that yesterday's lynch makes a very strong case for Kpaca being town (
though he's a crafty devil. I'll never say 100% on him)and Mander's bringing the hammer down so loosely makes me rather suspicious of her going for the lynch on a scum buddy so as to appear town. IIRC she was dismissive of day one's Yanni wagon. Need to reread some stuff, but I'm going to start things off today with a vote: Manders.

I thought back, and couldn't remember him ever having said anything about CM before this, so I checked:

Post 33: FoS Captain Murphy
Post 59: Post his reads thus far. There is no mention of Captain Murphy.
Post 60: Correction: he did comment on CM in 59, though it was a wishy-washy statement.
Post 84: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.
Post 104: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.
Post 167: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.
Post 168: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.
Post 180: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.
Post 285: Addresses CM; not indicative of read.

End of Day 1: He spent much of the day
voting and pushing for a Yanni lynch. He was voting for Scumbag at the end of the day. I get a bussing twinge when I re-read day 1.

Not CM related, but relevant; I stated that I was going to re-read teefo and see if I could see a reason he was killed. In post 413, he tells me that he just did, and was left more confused as to why teef was killed. Throwing me off the trail of something good? I'll have to re-read teef to find out.

End of Day 2: Not one comment on CM at all. He spent the entire day pushing for Yanni's lynch.

Nothing. There's nothing in here to show that he had any concerns about CM being scum.

This coupled with his weak attacks on me and his, what I feel is, blatant bussing of Yanni lead me to decide where to go next.

Vote: PhantomS

@manders: you
didn't bring up any new information in your last post. The only new info is the fact that you'll claim last, but only if everyone wants you to. Nearly everyone wants you to claim.
I don't plan to trust that you don't need to claim.

Of course I didn't bring up new information. I was answering questions I'd been asked before.

I did this time, though. Like I promised I'd try to do. What do you think of it?
Jackass.

Manders,

What in any of your gaming experience at salvation makes you think this cryptic claiming in mis-lynch or lose is a good idea? We are one simple misstep away from losing. Doesn't matter if the mafia knows your a PR or not, especially since you have been implying that you have been getting
roleblocked recently (after all, if someone is targeting you and your the last PR, it doesn't take a smart guy to put 2 and 2 together.

What makes you think it's mislynch or lose?

And the reason this is a good idea is because I'm town. Do you disagree?

6 alive with 2 mafia. Simple math is your friend here.

Oh, wait, ok, here's why you think that.

So, there's 6 alive now, right?
Assuming there's 2 mafia, that leaves 4 town.
We lynch town and it's 3 town, 2 mafia.
Tonight, they kill a townie. That leave 2 town, 2 mafia.

While that situation would, indeed, be terrible, that would not be game over. Since the scum win condition is not in the OP, I have to assume it is the standard "You win when you control the lynch/outnumber the town." Neither of those is the case
with 2 town, 2 mafia.

So, tell me again why it's mislynch or lose?

I still think manders claims and we lynch the guardian.

Why do you think I need to claim, Jones?

BECAUSE EVERYONE NEEDS TO CLAIM

BECAUSE EVERYONE NEEDS TO CLAIM

Fair enough. What do you think about my stipulation? (That I claim last?)

I think it's too bad you feel that way since we will def make you claim first.

Not without a good reason, you won't. Don't forget: I'm just as stubborn as you are.

A question. You've been saying I need to claim since yesterday. That was before "EVERYONE NEEDS TO CLAIM." Why did you feel that way then? (I'm pretty sure I already asked this, but I'd like an answer now.)

Another question. How do you feel about PhantomS?

Voting for me without addressing the legitimacy of my claim is so far from reasonable that I don't even know where to start.

Show me where I didn't address your claim. Now.

Bad vote is bad. Manders, move your vote off, and lets try not to do anything silly. -_-

Show me where I didn't address your claim. Now.

I could show you infinite places where you didn't address my claim.

Bad wording on your part aside, your half-baked analysis doesn't account for one dead CM.

Uh, you killed CM. You claimed to have been a vig. I just quoted it.

If you mean how do I explain two deaths that night, that's easy.

Mafia Strongman.

Or Toughguy. Both do the same thing.

Bad vote is bad. Manders, move your vote off, and lets try not to do anything silly. -_-

Um, no, I don't think I will. I've decided which way I want to go.

The only way Mafia can speed lynch, if PhantomS is town, is if another townie votes for him. I doubt anyone will do that unless they mean it.

PhantomS' hesitance to address my evidence against him adds to my decision.

Voting for me without addressing the legitimacy of my claim is so far from reasonable that I don't even know where to start.

Fuck showing me where I didn't address it, I addressed it right fucking here.

How can it be said that we're in a hurry to end the day if nobody has even voted?

The claiming isn't to end the day, it's to give us things to work on for the day, because either you're the typical
cryptic say something but don't say everything hope I don't get lynched or you have information that benefits the town.

Answer my fucking question, goddammit.

In fact, here. Let me do some of the work I promised to do.

Here, this post shows it all:

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL, lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.[/
quote]
As you can see, my first post is stating that I'm not going to presume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. If you click the link that goes to that original post, you can see that I'm referring, not to his role claim, but his night action claim.
My second post is voting Yanni for lying about his role.

PhantomS uses these two posts as a platform for an accusation of "being inconsistent." Now, inconsistency is a pretty good scumtell because it usually means someone is making the shit up as they go along. However, anyone with half a brain can see that the subjects of these two posts are completely unrelated.

You said I was inconsistent. I just showed you, in black and white, how I was not.

How can you be this obtuse?

Bad vote is bad. Manders, move your vote off, and lets try not to do anything silly. -_-

Um, no, I don't think I will. I've decided which way I want to go.

The only way Mafia can speed lynch, if PhantomS is town, is if another townie votes for him. I doubt anyone will do that unless they mean it.

PhantomS' hesitance to address my evidence against him adds to my decision.

Also, I asked you a question in my last post.

Tia

I don't think Phantoms would fess up to killing our cop, if he wasn't actually a vig.

Also, you have been implying you have been getting roleblocked/someone targeting you. Are you telling me they have a tough guy shot as well?

I'm not sure what's been happening to me, but that's a very good point.

Hmm.

Unvote

I'm gonna have to re-read this game. I'll get on it as soon as I can.

Two things are bothering me right now. I will expand more on that tomorrow, but where the hell is Ximbad?

Two things are bothering me right now. I will expand more on that tomorrow, but where the hell is Ximbad?

I'm still waiting for manders to figure out that she should claim.

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Opening Post has been Updated!

With 6 Alive it is 4 to Lynch.