Bioshock Mafia (Town Win)

[imopen2]

1. Kazekirimaru Scumish might be town. Something is bothering me about this read but I can't clear you as town and you're acting anti-town sometimes
2. Yannaria scum Gut feeling here.
3. G_R Scumish I'm enjoying most of gr's posts. Except the last one pointed at kaze is pure fluff. I like how he noticed some of the voting patterns that have been happening. But am bothered that he thinks Kaze pushed the imopen wagon. I'll have to do a reread on Kaze and G_R
4. imopen2 Town I got some scummy vibes but I'm willing to keep an open mind. your explanation of how
I'm scum makes no sense. I could modgame like crazy but I'd feel a lot better with 100% confirming someone who appears very towny than confirming someone who is bad. The bad player will have more sway and we might lose. That's just based on some crap I've read on the wiki and am open to other ideas. That said, please explain to me how you think wanting to clear town is scummy. I'm willing to believe your role for day1, but you are acting scum as fuck. Oh, and my vote isn't even on you.
5. DroppinSuga Post More
6. Captain Murphy Town
7. Tubehunter Post More
8. Lord_McDonalds Post More
9. rezombad Town
10. Colonel Khaddafi Post More
11. Stardust Scum
I need to do an in-depth of stardust and nihilists posts and stances.
12. WitchHunt Town noob falseclaiming watcher? I wouldn't believe it.

Wanting to clear town is not scummy, and i never said it was. wanting to clear town MORE than wanting to catch scum is scummy. process of elimination is our friend, and having more confirmed townies is great, and if we find a scum that is better imo and i don't understand thinking otherwise. especially when your two suggested targets are:

1. CM, who is basically confirmed town (he is town on i think everyone's list and only kaze has raised doubts), and would therefore not really add to our list of confirmed town anyway

and

2. Yourself, who are in your (supposedly) second game and would therefore, imo, not be a "good" confirmed townie as you suggested at all. you've show yourself to be a bad townie actually considering your focus on me so far. i no longer
trust your judgement. to me, the only thing that makes sense about you asking to be targeted is that you know you will turn up a town result. i'm keeping that in mind for future days.

btw, i never said your vote was on me, but it was, and you were tunneling me to death. do i need to quote where you still wanted to lynch me even after i claimed? here it is (post 339):

If one was falseclaiming it would be imopen, cop is really easy for scum to fakeclaim. And if it is a fakeclaim and we have a cop, our cop is smart enough to wait a couple days to come forward.

oh and also here (post 369):

How about:

vote imopen2

Is that a good enough answer?

Unvote, Vote Rezombad

now you can answer some things for me.

1. how exactly am i acting "scum as fuck?"
2. what was the "pattern" you saw in your graph (post 371)? i know you got some towncred for making a graph of
information that was readily available to everyone, but now you can tell us what the point was.

[imopen2]

to clarify my first sentence: if i cop someone who is "bad townie" according to zombad, it is still a confirmed townie for purposes of process of elimination. if i catch a scum that's even better. your opinion of who is a good or a bad townie is flawed when you consider yourself to be a good townie after 2 games and me to be scum when i'm not

[Kazekirimaru]

Creating a townbloc is actually a fantastic way to win games, to be fair.

[Mcdonalds]

I see you saying you said things you never said.

I see you not posting any content. In fact, before today 14% of your posts were about the band MUSE.

I see you actively refusing to help the town by not scumhunting and refusing to scumhunt.

I see a lynch for you being a lynch for scum.


pedit: I didn't miss a post, I skipped it and went to the post where you said kaze seems like a good start. I'll quote that post here too. It's not that bad.

So where did you explain why Kaze is scum as you you claimed to do in post 431?

- You misrepresented what I said when I first mentioned that I thought Kaze was scum by saying that I thought everyone else was town, your attention to detail is remarkably erratic, you were able to get that
lovely graph together in a spread sheet, but simple things like mentioning that I thought the rest of the group was null or town not simply town, you just missed?

- You mention that like it's a bad thing?

- Define scum hunt, I'm merely trying to get people to vote someone that is literally scum, he can't keep a scum list together for more than 1-2 posts (seriously), when he responds to questions he manages to have less content than I do

- I'm going to quote that mark before long and keep quoting it in all of my posts.

[Mcdonalds]

As for me explaining why I thought kaze was scum

Forgot, thought I had.

[rezombad]

I'm kind of rushing right now. If I don't explain everything adequately I'll get back to you in the morning.

I dont like you witholding your vote till all lists are in(when all lists but one are in). You also withheld your vote earlier in the game which I didn't like.
Honestly, I didn't even think about the godfather thing. I listed CM and myself because I am obvtown and want everyone to know and think CM is obvtown and would like to be sure.

If you look closely, you see kaze vote, and then yanni vote for the same person (rednihilist).
Then you see gr vote WH (who also rvs'd yanni) you vote WH and i vote you and then kaze followed immediately by yanni vote WH
Then you see GR vote imopen2 then kaze omgus CM then immediately switch his vote to imopen2 then yanni immediately wagon to imopen2

I'm I making things up here? I know G_R sees it, but left himself out in his 'vote analysis'.

Thanks for keeping me
honest imopen. I don't approve of your vote for me and I don't think your wagon will gain any ground, but your questions are germane. I have been focusing a lot of my posts towards you, but I have not been neglecting others.

As far as speeding things up, we had 6-7 people to go and each list was taking 2-3 days thats 2/3's of our time eaten up the way things were going.

[( G_R )]

LMD, are you scum this game?

rezombad is looking more and more like town. And this would be his first time as town IIRC.

POST REVIEW
At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this.

Like the fourth time...

@rezombad: I left myself out deliberately because I know the reasons I voted for those people, and at the time they were legit reasons. It's not my job to analyze myself, that is up to you.

[( G_R )]

Damn post review made GR forget about changing pronouns for GRs.

[Kazekirimaru]

As for me explaining why I thought kaze was scum

Forgot, thought I had.

And as such the "rezombad logic" was quite sound, eh?

[Captain Murphy]

@CM: I think Kaze could be bussing lmd here. Not very confident about that, but it seems a possibility to me. What do you think?

Its a possibility, but right now because of the lack of content and the scummy posts, I feel better lynching LMD because at least kaze will post day 2. I always find it hard to find buses, but easier to link players together. I'll need to see the NK and recap today before I know for sure if its a bus or not.

I'd prefer a cop on scumbag, yanni or someone else. I think we need to vote 3 choices and let imopen make the final choice.

Please don't cop me because I think the scum will eventually kill me because I am town on almost everyone's list, I'd rather hunt for scum with a cop
or people that are null because of strange postings.

If you look closely, you see kaze vote, and then yanni vote for the same person (rednihilist).
Then you see gr vote WH (who also rvs'd yanni) you vote WH and i vote you and then kaze followed immediately by yanni vote WH
Then you see GR vote imopen2 then kaze omgus CM then immediately switch his vote to imopen2 then yanni immediately wagon to imopen2

This is something to think about. There are a lot of scummy connections and wagons take off quick when scum join eachother

[Captain Murphy]

Fucking quotes getting messed up

vote lord maccas

[Mcdonalds]

vote Lord_McDonalds

Fixed

[Captain Murphy]

@mod can we get a vote count?

[imopen2]

I'm kind of rushing right now. If I don't explain everything adequately I'll get back to you in the morning.

I dont like you witholding your vote till all lists are in(when all lists but one are in). You also withheld your vote earlier in the game which I didn't like.
Honestly, I didn't even think about the godfather thing. I listed CM and myself because I am obvtown and want everyone to know and think CM is obvtown and would like to be sure.

If you look closely, you see kaze vote, and then yanni vote for the same person (rednihilist).
Then you see gr vote WH (who also rvs'd yanni) you vote WH and i vote you and then kaze followed immediately by yanni vote WH
Then you see GR vote imopen2 then kaze omgus CM then immediately switch his vote to imopen2
then yanni immediately wagon to imopen2

I'm I making things up here? I know G_R sees it, but left himself out in his 'vote analysis'.

Thanks for keeping me honest imopen. I don't approve of your vote for me and I don't think your wagon will gain any ground, but your questions are germane. I have been focusing a lot of my posts towards you, but I have not been neglecting others.

As far as speeding things up, we had 6-7 people to go and each list was taking 2-3 days thats 2/3's of our time eaten up the way things were going.

Are you saying you think the scum team is g_r, kaze, and yanni?

[Stardust]

How is spamming poor play and not just a playstyle quirk?

That I'm "jumping on nothing" is your opinion.

Again, my reasons being weak is your opinion, not to mention wagons are a tool and I treat them as such.

I don't insult people genuinely. Everything I say is in context to the game and not meant to be taken seriously. Aggression gets reactions; reactions beget reads.

You're assuming I was trying to get him lynched. Quit pretending like you have any idea what I'm doing/how I play.

There is one thing I'll own up to and that's that my aggression hasn't gotten me nearly as far on this site as it does on my homesite. DTR takes cues from MTGS meta and as such I'm a bit stilted and awkward as to how I'm supposed to scumhunt here,
especially when we claim at L-2 and not L-1 with intent to hammer. Not to mention this playerbase seems to laugh under pressure instead of crack(how upsetting!) This taken into account, I've been trying to adapt as of late.

Why did you bring all this up in the first place? It looks like you really wanted the opportunity to defend yourself rather than asking me questions to learn something. Like, you don't even care about my alignment here. You're just worried about what other people think of you.

By the way, "wagons are a tool", yes, but that doesn't mean you should build them up on people who aren't scum for the hell of it. You're practically confessing to exactly that!

And on spamming, you answered your own question earlier. Again, why are you asking me these questions?



Glad to see some posts overnight! rezombad, Lord_McDonalds and imopen2 all looked fairly townie through all that. Kaze looked even scummier than usual, and I really believe he's pushing LMD
now jumping off Captain's read. This is scum bandwagoning, people! Take a read from the towniest person and run with it. People will follow not because Kaze is on the wagon, but because CM is.

My scum read on Kaze is only conflicted due to meta. Kaze is acting much differently than what I remember in Boondocks. I've decided that he's intentionally acting more aggressively for exactly this reason, and failing at it.

Unvote, Vote: Kazekirimaru.

[Kazekirimaru]

lol run me up if you want. You're going to feel real fucking foolish before long.

And, no, "he was totally acting scummy so I don't feel bad" is not a good enough excuse. There is absolutely no scum motivation behind my aggressive playstyle and you know it. You're just choosing to see it as posturing because you're riding the cognitive dissonance train to confirmation bias town.

[Kazekirimaru]

And I asked you those questions because I'm getting frustrated and I'm trying to poke you into thinking clearly.

Stardust, I posted some meta earlier in the game. I suggest you read it and get back to me.

I'm still not sure if you're town or scum. You're acting a bit more like I remember in Boondocks than KNM, so I lean former. Still, you need to walk around a bit without the blinders on.

[Kazekirimaru]

By the way, "wagons are a tool", yes, but that doesn't mean you should build them up on people who aren't scum for the hell of it. You're practically confessing to exactly that!

Incorrect. I helped push the wagons because I thought they were scum. I still think imopen2 is scum, but such a tentative read is overshadowed by the "if we wanna make a townwin we gotta break a few townies" attitude of GR(and to a lesser extent Captain) and the blatant scum flailing of LMD.

[Stardust]

And, no, "he was totally acting scummy so I don't feel bad" is not a good enough excuse. There is absolutely no scum motivation behind my aggressive playstyle and you know it. You're just choosing to see it as posturing because you're riding the cognitive dissonance train to confirmation bias town.

I'm over here, Kaze. That thing you're beating on in the corner is a strawman. I have never brought up your aggression as a factor. In fact, it's the only reason that I think you might be town. But that can't lead me to ignore the laundry list of things you've done that did have scum motivation.

So... okay, I'll take the blinders off for a sec. Break down LMD's flailing for me. Show me where he's not
just a townie reacting to pressure. Explain to me how a scummer (a newbie scummer, in particular) could possibly defend his right to tunnel that hard that he doesn't even have any thoughts on anyone else. In this case, his fuckall attitude is townie. It's hurting the town, sure, but I can't see him as scum based on your recent fight with him. No self-consciousness, no worry that his viewpoint might get him into trouble. Pure paranoia that you're only pushing him because you want to kill him. Frankly, I believe him. You're pushing him for a reaction and seeing what you want to see.

[Stardust]

And I asked you those questions because I'm getting frustrated and I'm trying to poke you into thinking clearly.

This is a problem for me. You're frustrated. Why? I wasn't voting you. You didn't have a wagon forming on you. The wagons you create are continually being pushed by others. You keep on saying that you're not sure if I'm town or scum... yet you're trying to convince me to change my mind about you. None of this makes sense from a townie perspective.

Unfortunately, I can't read up on your meta at the moment. MafiaScum is blocked at work, and I've got more important things to do when I'm at home than read old games to clear someone as town based on something as flimsy as meta.

[Kazekirimaru]

It's the way he acted once he started getting pressured. He switched from lurking to attempting to defend himself to OMGUS and trying to discredit me and rezombad. That's classic scum flail. The more pressure he feels, the more he tries to deflect.

[Kazekirimaru]

And I asked you those questions because I'm getting frustrated and I'm trying to poke you into thinking clearly.

This is a problem for me. You're frustrated. Why? I wasn't voting you. You didn't have a wagon forming on you. The wagons you create are continually being pushed by others. You keep on saying that you're not sure if I'm town or scum... yet you're trying to convince me to change my mind about you. None of this makes sense from a townie perspective.

Unfortunately, I can't read up on your meta at the moment. MafiaScum is blocked at work, and
I've got more important things to do when I'm at home than read old games to clear someone as town based on something as flimsy as meta.

I'm frustrated because this all seems incredibly straight-forward to me and yet the likes of you seem to be blind.

I'm starting to wonder myself if I should be bothering to appeal to you.

Since when is meta flimsy? There are great players out there that are completely meta-centric. That is an awful assertion.

[Col. Khaddafi]

lol Kaze you did a textbook OMGUS just a few posts ago.

I've said it before, I think you might just be a misguided townie, but I think it was dumb to just line up wagons and generally put pressure into people, getting them in claim range.

So basically chill the fuck up and start by doing a re-analysis of the other people. Stop defending yourself and just do some scumhut, but with a more level-head than before.

[rezombad]

I'm kind of rushing right now. If I don't explain everything adequately I'll get back to you in the morning.

I dont like you witholding your vote till all lists are in(when all lists but one are in). You also withheld your vote earlier in the game which I didn't like.
Honestly, I didn't even think about the godfather thing. I listed CM and myself because I am obvtown and want everyone to know and think CM is obvtown and would like to be sure.

If you look closely, you see kaze vote, and then yanni vote for the same person (rednihilist).
Then you see gr vote WH (who also rvs'd yanni) you vote WH and
i vote you and then kaze followed immediately by yanni vote WH
Then you see GR vote imopen2 then kaze omgus CM then immediately switch his vote to imopen2 then yanni immediately wagon to imopen2

I'm I making things up here? I know G_R sees it, but left himself out in his 'vote analysis'.

Thanks for keeping me honest imopen. I don't approve of your vote for me and I don't think your wagon will gain any ground, but your questions are germane. I have been focusing a lot of my posts towards you, but I have not been neglecting others.

As far as speeding things up, we had 6-7 people to go and each list was taking 2-3 days thats 2/3's of our time eaten up the way things were going.

Are you saying you think the scum team is g_r, kaze, and yanni?

I'd like to think it includes LMD. But think a scumteam of g_r, kaze and yanni is implied by the busses so far. LMD's flip tells us very, very little because of his lack of posts throughout the game.

My copping
candidates would be: Scumbag, Yanni, Stardust

Now that you've said godfather, I'm 100% certain there is one, imopen.

pedit: @kaze: meta is kind of flimsy when you have to read it, instead of being in the game yourself.

pedit again: "So basically chill the fuck up and start by doing a re-analysis of the other people. Stop defending yourself and just do some scumhut, but with a more level-head than before."

This.

[Col. Khaddafi]

ofc there is a godfather. A game with nothing than power roles? 90% sure.

Possibly a neutral/survivor/serial killer too or something. This night 1 is prolly gonna be bloody.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'd like to think it includes LMD. But think a scumteam of g_r, kaze and yanni is implied by the busses so far. LMD's flip tells us very, very little because of his lack of posts throughout the game.

Who's flip, in your opinion, would give town the most information?

[Kazekirimaru]

Possibly a neutral/survivor/serial killer too or something. This night 1 is prolly gonna be bloody.

This game would be non-normal/slightly bastard if that were the case. It wasn't advertised as such, was it?

[Stardust]

Okay. I'm in. After rereading the last half of the game (in particular the last two pages) LMD is scum. His deflection and panic is pretty clear on a second read, and his assurance that Kaze is scum is not genuine. Kaze, if that's true, if you are town, start shutting the fuck up occasionally and think about what you're actually saying. You're tripping over your own feet and muddying the waters significantly.

Since I'm sure you'll ask for an example, here's another one!

I'm starting to wonder myself if I should be bothering to appeal to you.

You say you're not sure about me. You appeal to me to change my mind. Now, only after I challenge you on this, now you're starting to think about me!?[/i:
1kic546d] What the fuck is that? Use your brain and take everyone into consideration. Maybe you can avoid jumping around so much and calling every single player in the game scum (a good basis for a case on you, by the way). Chill out and think.

Unvote, Vote LMD.

[Stardust]

Possibly a neutral/survivor/serial killer too or something. This night 1 is prolly gonna be bloody.

This game would be non-normal/slightly bastard if that were the case. It wasn't advertised as such, was it?

Neutrals are a possibility (Spam gave no promises to the contrary), but it's unlikely in a 12 player setup. If there was an SK, there would have to be 2 scum rather than 3. With every townie having a power role, that game would be extremely swingy. I hope this isn't the case.

[Kazekirimaru]

Okay. I'm in. After rereading the last half of the game (in particular the last two pages) LMD is scum. His deflection and panic is pretty clear on a second read, and his assurance that Kaze is scum is not genuine. Kaze, if that's true, if you are town, start shutting the fuck up occasionally and think about what you're actually saying. You're tripping over your own feet and muddying the waters significantly.

Since I'm sure you'll ask for an example, here's another one!

I'm starting to wonder myself if I should be bothering to appeal to you.

You say you're not sure about me.
You appeal to me to change my mind. Now, only after I challenge you on this, now you're starting to think about me!? What the fuck is that? Use your brain and take everyone into consideration. Maybe you can avoid jumping around so much and calling every single player in the game scum (a good basis for a case on you, by the way). Chill out and think.

Unvote, Vote LMD.

I had null on you all day.

At the time of that post, you started leaning scum to me. Still are. That's what the fuck that is.

I see not how that's a basis for a case at all, but whatever. It's plain and clear to me that my usual playstyle doesn't work here.

[Stardust]

Your playstyle of OMGUS'ing constantly (which you're doing again, by the way) and flailing at people until they give you want you want? Yeah, that's not gonna work.

It's a basis for a case because scum find it very convenient to be able to say things like, "See, I suspected you earlier!" as reasoning to jump on any wagon they please. You now have that power thanks to your jumping around toDay.

[Kazekirimaru]

Whatever, darling~

[Mcdonalds]

Have we heard from yanni lately?

[Stardust]

Why are you asking about Yanni in particular, LMD?

[rezombad]

I'd like to think it includes LMD. But think a scumteam of g_r, kaze and yanni is implied by the busses so far. LMD's flip tells us very, very little because of his lack of posts throughout the game.

Who's flip, in your opinion, would give town the most information?

G_R's. But I don't have enough case yet. I'm fine with LMD.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'd like to think it includes LMD. But think a scumteam of g_r, kaze and yanni is implied by the busses so far. LMD's flip tells us very, very little because of his lack of posts throughout the game.

Who's flip, in your opinion, would give town the most information?

G_R's. But I don't have enough case yet. I'm fine with LMD.

Why would GR's flip give us the most info?

[Stardust]

At the time of that post, you started leaning scum to me. Still are. That's what the fuck that is.

What about that post made you think I was scum?

[Kazekirimaru]

I meant at the time I was posting that(my post) I was starting to lean scum.

[Yannaria]

this kaze wagon is pretty much crap and once all the t/s lists get tallied or whatever I'll be voting for scumbag

[Captain Murphy]

I feel like a messiah calling out LMD and kaze early, maybe I'm just that mafia hipster guy