Dies to Removal

I'll give the Font of Ire a shot and report back with anything useful.

Thanks a lot for all the posts guys, they've been really helpful and helped me regain focus on what really matters in the deck. Sometimes I think I get so caught up in having exactly the right cards and trying different strategies that I lose sight of what I'm really trying to do when I play burn.

Most of all, I think I need to play more, get more experience, and become a better pilot of the deck.

While font has a really good damage/card, it's damage/mana is just horrible. It seems a lot like T//T in that It's probably a good card in your starting hand. I just can't help thinking it's gonna feel really awkward to topdeck this with 4-5 mana on the table and you opponent at 2 (the kind of thing i know would happen to me ). Against control i think 1-drops might just be better (for that early pressure). Against midrange? Idk, if a big burn spell is what what we need this fits, and it's probably better than T//T there as they will quickly be on fewer than 5 cards in hand.

As some of you may know I'm on my mini-two-week hiatus so I'm just tossing out ideas, I like too hear your thoughts on:

Spark Trooper: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Harness by Force: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Font of Ire: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

[card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- it has been tested before....... I think by dauntless

Tajic, Blade of the Legion: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- ADRIAN SULLIVAN, Aggro tech (with vaults + Phoenixes it can be deal tons of damage while being a fantastic wall (when it needs too be)).

Tajic might just be ridiculous enough to work, but I don't think I'm brave enough to test it online.

Would Tajic be a decent option for the mirror or is he too slow?

I think I might even prefer Truefire Paladin over Tajic. His pump to blast through blockers is cheap enough to activate or even to discourage blocking entirely. Hell, Run them both!
Then some [card]Legion's initiative[/card], some more Assemble the Legion.... anything else missing?

I think I might even prefer Truefire Paladin over Tajic. His pump to blast through blockers is cheap enough to activate or even to discourage blocking entirely. Hell, Run them both!
Then some [card]Legion's initiative[/card], some more Assemble the Legion.... anything else missing?

That would place you firmly into the Boros Token or Boros Aggro route (which are both fun decks which disappeared for one reason or another).

Tajic, Blade of the Legion is good in burn because it doesn't require much support and allows you too grind
out against mid-range because he doesn't die too removal which is something Junk and Jund have in abundance (it works if your taking the 4x MM, 1-2x Fated, 1-2x Reprisal route).

@Whole: I wouldn't bring him into the mirror because 4cc is a huge investment and he dies to CTTR + 2 damage per turn is a horrible clock.

As some of you may know I'm on my mini-two-week hiatus so I'm just tossing out ideas, I like too hear your thoughts on:

Spark Trooper: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Harness by Force: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Font of Ire: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

[card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- it has been tested before....... I think by dauntless

Tajic, Blade of the Legion: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- ADRIAN SULLIVAN, Aggro tech (with vaults + Phoenixes it can be deal tons of damage while being a fantastic wall (when it needs too be)).

Spark trooper: Dont like
him vs GR and Jund monsters because of caryatid chumpers. Don't like him vs B-anything because of removal. He's good, just not the impact I'm looking for. Seems to me he is best in a race, when the opponent is trapped out, all his creatures attacked and you need 6 dmg to win the game...

Harness: Dunno to be honest. Every time I try to play it, it doesn't show up. It would be at home vs BWx, although it won't hit ghost dad, jund and monsters. Seems good and you can always get on it having a 4-6 strength target eventually.

ELSPETH??? Maybe I'm being ignorant here but: no no no no no! Costs too high and double white and dies to HDF, which both jund and BW sometimes keep in to deal with Chandra. Mainly the casting cost tho. But what do I know? I playing against an esper aggro homebrew and lost due to being blind sided. But he curves out from T1 one drop wheenies, to necromancer, to whip, into blood baron. Somehow crazy mana curves seem to work for others.

Tajic I like in theory and might give him
a try, if I find time to play this week. I don't know if his weakness to bile blight, drown in sorrow and devour flesh make an argument to not board him against BW, since all our threats have that weakness

What do you think of Firemane Avenger? 4cc, evasion 3/3, that gives a lightning helix if he finds friends?

@HK1997

I agree on Trooper (I think he is horrible)

Elsepth would be awesome if the cc wasn't so restricting.

Tajic I like in theory and might give him a try, if I find time to play this week. I don't know if his weakness to bile blight, drown in sorrow and devour flesh make an argument to not board him against BW, since all our threats have that weakness

What do you think of Firemane Avenger? 4cc, evasion 3/3, that gives a lightning strike if he finds friends?

I forgot about bile blight so scrap Tajic he is trash now (no sarcasm intended).

P.S. Esper Aggro isn't a
homebrew deck, its won a few event pre-JOU and held a chunk of the online meta game for awhile.

P.S.S. I dislike Firemane Avenger because it dies too removal (which is a relevant argument in a creature-light deck like ours).

- - - - - - - -

This leave us with Font of Ire and Harness by Force as possible test cards.

As some of you may know I'm on my mini-two-week hiatus so I'm just tossing out ideas, I like too hear your thoughts on:

Spark Trooper: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Harness by Force: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Font of Ire: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

[card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- it has been tested before....... I think by dauntless

Tajic, Blade of the Legion: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- ADRIAN SULLIVAN, Aggro tech (with vaults + Phoenixes it can be deal tons of damage while being a fantastic wall (when it needs too be)).

Spark Trooper - I like him
in removal light match ups. I'm nervous to run against BWx or Jund because I don't think he'll connect. I've had great success running him against monsters lists because he buys an extra turn or two with the life gain. For awhile I had a combination of Spark Trooper and Blind Obedience in the side board vs Gx lists. It worked out all right.

Harness by Force - Testing this out in those match ups. It's a 1 of in the sideboard so I haven't drawn it enough to know if it's any good.

Font of Ire - Feels like we're digging a little deep.

Elspeth - I love Elspeth vs every one of those decks, but she's incredibly mana intensive. I ran her as a 1 of in my Boros midrange during THS standard and she was great then. I'm not sure if this deck could support her (but I would love it if it can).

Tajic - I think I like this vs Bx lists. He dodges a lot of removal they have and with Young Pyromancer tokens, it's conceivable to get the battalion trigger off. Although, he seems mediocre vs any deck that
can clog up the board with x/3's or better. Also, I'm not sure if he's better than Assemble the Legion in those same match ups.

@MDU Thanks for the info on the Esper aggro deck, but I still had no clue what I was playing against. I missed that one completely. First I thought he was control. Then I thought he was Esper humans and then brings in 4 BBV out of the sideboard into play.... He was nice enough to tell me what you said. It's a Deck that's been around and such and we talked about mana bases. So apparently with running 8-12 one drops, they still go for 25 lands and do fine.... how do I keep on getting screwed when my curve ends at 4? Haha. Sorry, a bit sore from The pounding I got due to own stupidity and scrying away 2 chains....

Guys, can I pick your brain about enchantment removal; do you think it is necessary to run some number of Wear/Tear or Deicide in the sideboard?

Getting Chandra's Phoenix out from under a DS or BL is nice, but I find the card(s) a little reactive in a lot of spots.

My current SB:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Chandra (1 in the main)
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chains (3 in the main)
1 Reprisal
1 Assemble the Legion

Thanks in advance.

@Nishoba27

Sounds like you are asking specifically about the control matchup? Here I don't see the need for enchantment removal. Like you said, it's too reactive and what you get back is too low impact. You CAN run a couple of keeping apparitions since they are some early pressure that you may sac to get rid of a ram. That said, ram isn't so big of a problem. Sac'ing to get back a Phoenix is borderline usefull and bringing in WT for this matchup is too narrow.

Thanks HK. Yes, as you say the question is in the context of the control matchup...I take the view that B/W with Whip is going to beat you in a variety of ways before Whip takes over...

The UW Control lists I have come up against recently have sided in a variety of creatures (Ram, Angel, Brimaz) making Chains playable, so don't really want enchantment removal for the Ram.

The most played decks in my (paper) meta are Monsters, UW Control, Mono Black and a variety of midrange. Not much in the way of Hexproof or Dredge.

As some of you may know I'm on my mini-two-week hiatus so I'm just tossing out ideas, I like too hear your thoughts on:

Spark Trooper: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Harness by Force: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

Font of Ire: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund

[card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- it has been tested before....... I think by dauntless

Tajic, Blade of the Legion: Vs Monster, BWx and Jund <-- ADRIAN SULLIVAN, Aggro tech (with vaults + Phoenixes it can be deal tons of damage while being a fantastic wall (when it needs too be)).

Spark Trooper is good when
his life gain is relevant, otherwise it ends up being an overpriced removal more often than not. These days we are grinding out many postboard matches, so his relevance has declined. I still like the combo with Eidolon MD for those who like the more aggressive playstyle...

Harness excites me, but I'd like to combine it with Eidolon SB vs Mono Black, not with our ultra grindy approach where we try to get incremental Phoenix damage in, play 6+ Demon removal spells etc.., bring in Chandra, SB out Boros Charm etc

Elspeth??? I'd rather run Aurelia the Warleader if I had 6 Mana to spend with Burn... but I just don't think we have...

Font of Ire warrants serious consideration in replacing T/T, especially in decks that don't run additional 1- or 2- drop creatures out of the board. I'd actually like to test this one...

Tajic: This ain't no Hound of Griselbrand...(which used to be favorite SB Card vs. Jund back then)

If UW decks start not playing dspheres/blights.... oh man Font will be good.

I agree with the assessments of the cards mentioned. Sparktrooper has won games and has been a dead or irrelevant card. I'm not exited about taking anything out for him.

Harness has worked well for me when I have one in the 75 and I have wished I had a second like you do anytime a one of in the 75 works wonders.

Should Blind Obedience be considered for a come back since control and monsters seem a little bigger in the metagame now? And has anyone tested [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] as a one of? I think it would too often be a bad burn spell but it is instant and offers a little more.

I played a one-of Blind Obedience at SCG Prov and I liked it a lot. It's a great tool in the mirror that isn't as narrow as Peak Eruption. It's also good against the BW Midrange deck, which has gotten more polular

I actually completely forgot about Blind Obedience. I'm trying to find out tech for Jund/RG Monsters (and get some help in the mirror), and Blind Obedience is perfect for this...and I took it out my sideboard a while ago because Jund/RG Monsters was on the decline. I think it's safe to say Blind Obedience will be better than Tajic.

I like having 2 wear//tear available, if there is a target it's a cheap instant for pyromancer as well. I would not bring it in against control unless I saw Nyx Fleece Rams or BO.

@zen - You should 100% bring wear/tear in vs control in G2... every. time.

Yeah disenchant effects are really good against control. Sometimes they'll DSphere your Phoenix and you'll just Wear it end of their turn. Other times you'll just take out a Ram immediately. They almost always have something you can hit.

Hmmm.... I may be remembering an old sideboard... it's actually been a while since I played a real control deck. Actually they aren't even IN my current sideboard. I think I put in fated + reprisal instead.

I'd much rather run keening against control than wear. Sitting there waiting for the enchantment can get awfully durdly.

keening does look interesting but I haven't bothered to dig through my box of commons to see if I have any.

It wasn't amazing for me but at least ok.

Yeah Keening was solid; not amazing, but solid.

I'm currently running a 1/1 split of Keening and Wear // Tear so that I'm less reactive against control but still have the actual disenchant for the situations I need it.

The problem with keening is that throwing it out early lets THEM play around the removal and its often quite unfavorable for us... I dunno.

I like wear//tear for its flexibility and hits the hall MonoU is running which puts a lot of their critters out easy burn range. Keening has been good against control thus far for me. I'm going to find a way to put a couple Blind Obedience in the SB again. I think MDU ran one main for awhile.

G3 in SE final vs. Esper Control. What would you do here?

a) Burn Jace?
b) Burn him?
c) pass?

and why?
His Pithing Needle has named Mutavault...

Additional Info: The Temple I just played revealed a mountain which I scyed to the bottom

G1 or postboard? I think I just hold boros charm until he tries to board wipe, when jace gets to 6 is when I start to worry. Your chances of drawing 2 relevant spells by then is pretty good.

G3 (see first line above) thus postboard

Depends what he does with Jace. I'm going to guess that he goes +1 which seems to be the obvious choice for him here.

In that case, even if you kill Jace, your army will still only swing for 1 (which must go on Jace to kill him) and you will be totally out of good cards in hand, which seems like a bad position to be in, especially when he has 5 cards in hand. I think I would bank on getting lucky, go for his face and hope to get a good card off the top. If you rip Helix or Charm off the top you win, if not his 5 mana revelation is not too terrifying if you draw any other burn spell. If you draw another land you'll probably loose in either case.

But I am by no means sure it is the best play.

I would hold it. With protection against sweeper/ready 4 points and they are <10 I would let them keep them keep the Jace. I know I mistakenly focus on Jace when I shouldn't and I'm pretty sure it has cost me games.

Depending on the amount of helix he keeps, he's probably got less than a 1/12 chance of hitting a 4 point spell but I wouldn't save the charm for wrath at this point since his tokens are kind of worthless. I'm assuming they already got their free damage, consider it a plus. So yeah, now would be a good time to cast.

Either way, he's too low on health to want to kill jace, particularly with 5 cards in hand. Let him be forced to +1 while getting pinged for 1. You don't want to allow him to -2.

Do you have any other info on his sideboard?
I've faced some transformational Esper lists that just board out Verdicts and adds creatures like Paladin - Baron - Obzy - Archangel.

I have to learn to include ALL the relevant info in the first post

He +1ed his Jace to 5 and then finished his turn. So yes, I could kill Jace with Boros Charm and an attack from YP if I wanted.

I won g1 without much resistance, In g2 I saw a Ram, a BO, 2 D-Spheres and Elixir (all in one game - needless to say I lost that one). I kept 2 Helix and boarded 2 out.

If he's boarded in BO, he's probably still on the Verdict plan.
You're flooding and you're screwed

I'd attack Jace with the Pyromancer bringing it back to 4, then pass and let him untap.
If he Verdicts, then protecting the board is the best choice I guess, if he just goes on with Jace +1, Boros Charming it is definitely an option.
I think the real way out is waiting for more gas, anyway.
Do you run W//T?

Id ignore jace until he gets to 6, no matter what he has boarded etc. Trust your deck will draw out of it.

What was the end result?

G3 in SE final vs. Esper Control. What would you do here?

a) Burn Jace?
b) Burn him?
c) pass?

and why?

Picture3.gif

His Pithing Needle has named Mutavault...

Additional Info: The Temple I just played revealed a mountain which I scyed to the bottom

his face. he only has 4 lands so next turn if he deals with yp then he might not have a counterspell for your burn and if he just pluses again you attack for 1 then burn him and he counters. rinse and repeat until done. but anyway it all depends on what you boarded in. having him deal with either your yp or burn spells puts him in a position where me might need to minus that jace at some point. why what did you do?