Dies to Removal

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:47 am**

I'm sorry I'm not.
If I were I'd just lurk the hell out of you - CM is allowed to do that, isn't it?[/quote:
3jawef0r]
Aren't you doing that?

Also cm has been replaced day 1 in every game Ive played with him I believe. Anytime he promises a "catch up post" hes not gonna return.
Nope.
Sue me for being non-committal if you want, but I'm following the thread.
Guys, I think I found the 2nd scum.
Thanks for blowing me following that lead bruh.
Officially reserving my "I-told-you-so" for when both GR and RN flip scum.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:53 am**

What?

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:53 am**

by no means is az cleared as town in my mind. i was simply saying that maybe he is town. i felt this way due to his ability to break down my play so far and not be unfair or biased in his analysis, despite my repeated cries for his lynch. it isn't that hard to fake this type of analysis...especially for a lawyer, but i'm willing to

Unvote

at this point. besides, kpaca has mostly dropped the az wagon too, and he's a much better player who has probably read more of this thread than me anyways.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:54 am**

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:16 am**

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:36 pm**

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red

I felt like I was tunneling on Dechs Kaison and I also thought that the reason I didn't get hammered was because either scum was already on my wagon, or not in the thread, so I decided to wait for CM or his replacement. Red did show up and didn't hammer, but maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself? IDK

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind
of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

This is the most anti-town post you've made.
Vote RedNihilist

I still wanna see some rezmo posts...

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:28 pm**

Votecount? I'm a lazy guy. '-'

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:21 pm**

There's only two votes on you, don't panic yet.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:21 pm**

Damn it, that comma should be a semicolon.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:01 pm**

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red
I felt like I was tunneling on Dechs Kaison and I also thought that the reason I didn't get hammered was because either scum was already on my wagon, or not in the thread, so I decided to wait for CM or his replacement. Red did show up and didn't hammer, but maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself? IDK

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order
in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

This is the most anti-town post you've made.
Vote RedNihilist

I still wanna see some rezmo posts...

Translation:

1. I need to find a justification for thinking RN is scum even though he didn't hamer me.
2. I'm going to call this post the "most anti-town" without any explanation or justification or actual thought whatsoever. Hope nobody notices! But whatevs, I'm dead anyways.
3. I reall,y really hope Rezmo doesn't want to kill me, too, so I can somehow wiggle out of this.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:03 pm**

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

Walk us through the thought process of sorting out your ideas, then, what you're thinking about, the factors weighing on your mind. There's no reason it should take a wagon just to get you to speak up and volunteer what you're thinking about everyone.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:06 pm**

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red
I felt like I was tunneling on Dechs Kaison and I also thought that the reason I didn't get hammered was because either scum was already on my wagon, or not in the thread, so I decided to wait for CM or his replacement. Red did show up and didn't hammer, but
maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself? IDK

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

This is the most anti-town post you've made.
Vote RedNihilist

I still wanna see some rezmo posts...
Translation:

1. I need to find a justification for thinking RN is scum even though he didn't hamer me.
2. I'm going to call this post the "most anti-town" without any explanation or justification or actual thought whatsoever. Hope nobody notices! But whatevs, I'm dead anyways.
3. I reall,y really hope Rezmo doesn't want to kill me, too, so I can somehow wiggle out of this.

4. As a bonus, there is some distancing
between the two if RN is also scum.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:09 pm**

Whatever Az. I'm more and more convinced that you're not scum, but I'm really getting sick of your shit.

You're either giving pointers to scum on "how not to act", or losing a lot of credibility every time you call a townie scum based on your grandiose mafia theory. But carry on, be my guest.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:13 pm**

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red
I felt like I was tunneling on Dechs Kaison and I also thought that the reason I didn't get
hammered was because either scum was already on my wagon, or not in the thread, so I decided to wait for CM or his replacement. Red did show up and didn't hammer, but maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself? IDK

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.

This is the most anti-town post you've made.
Vote RedNihilist

I still wanna see some rezmo posts...
Translation:

1. I need to find a justification for thinking RN is scum even though he didn't hamer me.
2. I'm going to call this post the "most anti-town" without any explanation or justification or actual thought whatsoever. Hope nobody notices! But whatevs, I'm dead
anyways.
3. I reall,y really hope Rezmo doesn't want to kill me, too, so I can somehow wiggle out of this.
4. As a bonus, there is some distancing between the two if RN is also scum.

"I'll just barn everything Az says to appear townie"

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:43 pm**

Votecount!

( G_R ) (3): Azrael, Dechs Kaison, Mogadishu Jones
imopen2 (2): Lord_Mcdonalds, hamfactorial
RedNihilist (2): imopen2, ( G_R )

Not voting: RedNihilist, rezombad

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:57 pm**

Whatever Az. I'm more and more convinced that you're not scum, but I'm really getting sick of your shit.

You're either giving pointers to scum on "how not to act", or losing a lot of credibility every time you call a townie scum based on your grandiose mafia theory. But carry on, be my guest.

It's kinda hard not to sound like an utter dick to someone who you know is caught mafia but isn't dead yet. Sorry about that.

What convinced you that I'm not scum, other than not having the votes any more?

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:58 pm**

Eh, I did it again. : /

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:58 pm**

Something in me naturally wants to be mean to people who lie, even if it's in a game, I suspect.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:05 pm**

Whatever Az. I'm more and more convinced that you're not scum, but I'm really getting sick of your shit.

You're either giving pointers to scum on "how not to act", or losing a lot of credibility every time you call a townie scum based on your grandiose mafia theory. But carry on, be my guest.
It's kinda hard not to sound like an utter dick to someone who you know is caught mafia but isn't dead yet. Sorry about that.

What convinced you that I'm not scum, other than not having the votes any more?

Mostly your post about getting a reply from Stardust/
building times. As someone who can't submit inventions, I don't think scum would go there on a gambit (mainly assuming flavor-wise that scum don't have master builders among them). Last week was pretty emotional IRL, and re-reading some of your posts under a more calm light makes me think that your actions are according to what I would expect from townie Azrael.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:07 pm**

Something in me naturally wants to be mean to people who lie, even if it's in a game, I suspect.

Yeah, well I get nervous when given a PR and tend to act a certain way so I don't get NK N1, but I guess I'm beyond that now that I claimed.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:18 pm**

There's only two votes on you, don't panic yet.

This was very uncalled for.
Are you having fun?

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2? Just for the sake of asking.
Walk us through
the thought process of sorting out your ideas, then, what you're thinking about, the factors weighing on your mind. There's no reason it should take a wagon just to get you to speak up and volunteer what you're thinking about everyone.

I've already told you I don't like the way you turned this game into Azrael vs the world, let me tell you that I also don't like to be bossed around.
And no, I'm not asking for a wagon against me, I've just pointed out to him that his accusation of me being less committing than the usual is not that true.

G_R: why don't you have a vote right now?

Red: why so scummy? i don't remember you playing so hands off in my previous games with you.

Vote: Red
I felt like I was tunneling on Dechs Kaison and I also thought that the reason I didn't get hammered was because either scum was already on my wagon, or not in the thread, so I decided to wait for CM or his replacement. Red did show up and didn't hammer, but maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself? IDK

@ Everyone: I've just having a hard time putting some order in my ideas.
Go ahead and lynch me if you think I'm scum btw, I'm not a power role or anything.

@ imopen: Can you please list the games when I took *any* kind of initiative before being put at L-2?
Just for the sake of asking.

This is the most anti-town post you've made.
Vote RedNihilist

I still wanna see some rezmo posts...
Translation:

1. I need to find a justification for thinking RN is scum even though he didn't hamer me.
2. I'm going to call this post the "most anti-town" without any explanation or justification or actual thought whatsoever. Hope nobody notices! But whatevs, I'm dead anyways.
3. I reall,y really hope Rezmo doesn't want to kill me, too, so I can somehow wiggle out of this.
4. As a bonus, there is some distancing between the two if RN is also scum.

Of course.
Except for the fact that if the scum package was GR + RN I guess that the proper play would have consisted in RN hammering rather than having him (me, whatevs) ignoring the opportunity of buying some town cred to keep his partner alive just to have said partner trying to goofily shift away
pressure to his beloved partner that just avoided hammering him.
Tunneling is bad, but you're on a whole new level where you don't *just* label people as sure-scum, but you also consider them idiots.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:32 pm**

Arrite, I'm sold on Red as town. When he was scum, his self defense arguments were much more involved.

Red, that doesn't change the fact that you're being entirely non committal and it's not helpful.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:52 pm**

So, Red, do you think I should have been lynched? Would you have voted for me if I hadn't been at L-1?

What do you think about Azrael, Dechs Kaison and imopen2?

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:53 pm**

Additionally, I am quite swayed by the "optimal scum play" argument. If Red-GR was the scum team, I agree that Red's best line of play would have been to hammer for the town cred.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:02 pm**

I'm town yo.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:07 pm**

Welcome back to the game, Red

I wonder what rez is cooking up behind the scenes. It's more fun when everyone comes out to play.

@ lurkers

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:22 pm**

Additionally, I am quite swayed by the "optimal scum play" argument. If Red-GR was the scum team, I agree that Red's best line of play would have been to hammer for the town cred.

Hell no! I'd throw that exact same argument out there as WIFOM and try to keep 50% of my team or more from getting destroyed on D1. Especially because if I'm right, and GR is scum, the next person on the chopping block after my credibility got that boost would be him.

I haven't fully decided on RN yet, but he's one of the people who haven't posted anything that makes me remotely inclined to clear him. And I certainly have no love for players who won't share their viewpoints without their arms being twisted off, though if it's habitual for him,
that's somewhat less damaging.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:33 pm**

Whatever Az. I'm more and more convinced that you're not scum, but I'm really getting sick of your shit.

You're either giving pointers to scum on "how not to act", or losing a lot of credibility every time you call a townie scum based on your grandiose mafia theory. But carry on, be my guest.
It's kinda hard not to sound like an utter dick to someone who you know is caught mafia but isn't dead yet. Sorry about that.

nWhat convinced you that I'm not scum, other than not having the votes any more?
Mostly your post about getting a reply from Stardust/building times. As someone who can't submit inventions, I don't think scum would go there on a gambit (mainly assuming flavor-wise that scum don't have master builders among them). Last week was pretty emotional IRL, and re-reading some of your posts under a more calm light makes me think that your actions are according to what I would expect from townie Azrael.

I don't buy this explanation coming from a townie. You think I'm town b/c I shared a question about how building works from the mod? What if he answered a question regarding the sample townie role PM? There's no doubt in your mind the scum have any builders? This is too quick and easy a reversal, and on too tenuous a ground.

As to your theory, completely ruling out the possibility that the scum have builders- that seems ridiculous from a design standpoint - anyone who
could prove they could build something would be auto-town. I would not care to assume that the scum don't have master builders - esp with that flavor in the opening blurb about a bunch of the master builders getting captured after whatever-that-place-was-called got blown to hell.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:03 pm**

I didn't say there's no doubt in my mind. I said that I'm leaning town on you, and that assuming that helps that thought. I have no certainty about them not having builders, but given the fact that I cannot build and that my flavor is not a master builder, I tend to favor that hypothesis. It's very much flavor gaming and/or mod gaming, so I don't want to continue going down that road.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:31 pm**

unvote: vote RedNihilist

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:38 pm**

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:21 pm**

Arrite, I'm sold on Red as town. When he was scum, his self defense arguments were much more involved.

Red, that doesn't change the fact that you're being entirely non committal and it's not helpful.

Nice catch. Except for the fact that I was a lot more involved in Gone Postal as well, and I was town there.
I don't like the way this game is going on and I don't like to commit before having some hypothesis I believe in, I'm really envious of you guys that live your carefree life jumping around with your votes and ideas but I'm really not that kind of guy, sorry.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:25 pm**

What I meant was, the case you returned against Stardust was masterful. Impressive. Damned convincing. This was something I never saw out of you in Gone Postal.

This one just felt... uninterested.

Maybe you're just trying something new; maybe I'm just perceiving something that's not really there.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:41 pm**

So, Red, do you think I should have been lynched? Would you have voted for me if I hadn't been at L-1?

What do you think about Azrael, Dechs Kaison and imopen2?

I'm not sold on you being scum. You've done some bad maneuvers but I can't relate to you being scared as hell of Azrael, yet your late persistance in stating that you think he's town is very bad to me - almost as if you were trying to bargain your survival with him. Also, I feel like your claim is bullshit, yet I didn't feel like hammering you.

Azrael - I find him very suspicious because I can't help but be very wary of people who control the flow of the game.
I'm 100% sure that he can't be scum WITH you (GR, for reference), and I feel like the idea that the both of you are
town laughable.
Really overconfident, he could either be the best player ever or an arrogant egomaniac, and I feel like I'm in for the latter after he has wrongly labeled me as scum - the best player ever wouldn't misread me.
Did I already mention the fact that I feel like he has disrupted this game?

DK - beware the barner.

imopen2 - I'd like to have a chat with him, but he voted me then disappeared, so I don't really know how to answer here.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:54 pm**

Additionally, I am quite swayed by the "optimal scum play" argument. If Red-GR was the scum team, I agree that Red's best line of play would have been to hammer for the town cred.
Hell no! I'd throw that exact same argument out there as WIFOM and try to keep 50% of my team or more from getting destroyed on D1. Especially because if I'm right, and GR is scum, the next person on the chopping block after my credibility got that boost would be him.

I feel like I could come up with a lot of better answers than this, but this is ridicolous.
Tomorrow you're
either getting shot by MoJo so your "chopping block" can get easily get taken out of the equation, or he dies overnight and you suddenly become a good target for a lynch to me.
Then again, he could survive the night and claim that his ability didn't work - but at that point I guess I'd really question myself on his claim and his alignment.
Aren't you getting a little too far ahead with your control rampage?

You know what? The best thing about this post is somewhere else - you're claiming that if I had hammered GR you would have followed up by investigating me, and that completely rules out the idea of scum NKing you, but that would have been a serious option for me if I was scum.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:56 pm**

(for the record, I don't really think that the "optimal play" argument was *that* good either - you know, WIFOM and *blah blah blah*, yet I don't like THAT answer)

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:04 pm**

What I meant was, the case you returned against Stardust was masterful. Impressive. Damned convincing. This was something I never saw out of you in Gone Postal.

This one just felt... uninterested.

Maybe you're just trying something new; maybe I'm just perceiving something that's not really there.

Go reread the start of that game - when people turned on me, I answered with the best hypothesis I had on my desk (rcwraspy + ham) because I wanted to *at least* leave something useful behind.

You're right about myself being not really caught up with this game so far, but seriously, I really just feel like that if we actually hang GR and he flips scum we just end up rereading D1 and discover that... well... Azrael said things.
I'm really
a slowpoke when it comes to it, but I really feel like that this game is very underdeveloped for its 10 pages.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:14 pm**

I'm good if you guys back off Rednihilist for now. I think he's town.

Mafia is a game that naturally involves being wrong, constantly. If a town lynches correctly 50% of the time, they're doing phenomenal work. If you're waiting around for hypotheses that will be absolutely iron-clad, that doesn't really happen very often.

The best way to get closer to that point that I've found, where you have enough information to make an informed decision, is not to sit back passively and wait. That leads to the kind of inertia that we're currently suffering through. We need people to take stances, elicit reactions from other people, form cases, and get the game moving - otherwise we have no basis for a lynch, or for clearing people as town. The towns that manage to produce a dynamic, activity-rich environment with heavy interaction between the players are the towns that tend to win.

The game IS underdeveloped, because we'
ve had too few people participating meaningfully. We do have a solid core of players which can be read successfully, and I'm glad to be able to finally add you to that list. I would be even happier if you continue to offer your impressions, even if they're provisional and subject to change at a moment's notice, because there's no other way that we'll be able to A) get any kind of effective read on you, and B) if you're town, we need your participation and your vote to bring the scum to heel.

Don't wait for perfect reads, share what you've got provisionally, and if you have to change your read on a dime as new information comes in, fine. You certainly won't see me criticizing you for that, but trying to keep your cards close to the chest does neither you or the remainder of the town any favors.

If you're trying to puzzle out why I'm posting so much and affecting the flow of the game so heavily, this is why. Active, talkative towns get the information they need to win. I might be scum when I'
m talkative anyways, but it's only because I have no choice but to emulate what my town playstyle looks like. It's not something that I would recommend as good scum play, otherwise. The nail that sticks out is the easiest to get hammered down, if you make a mistake.

And a lot of us know that, and so do the scum. So when people continue to lurk, don't be surprised if we start applying pressure to them.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:46 pm**

So, Red, do you think I should have been lynched? Would you have voted for me if I hadn't been at L-1?

What do you think about Azrael, Dechs Kaison and imopen2?
I'm not sold on you being scum. You've done some bad maneuvers but I can't relate to you being scared as hell of Azrael, yet your late persistance in stating that you think he's town is very bad to me - almost as if you were trying to bargain your survival with him. Also, I feel like your claim is bullshit, yet I didn't feel like hammering you.

Azrael - I find him very suspicious because I can't help but be very wary
of people who control the flow of the game.
I'm 100% sure that he can't be scum WITH you (GR, for reference), and I feel like the idea that the both of you are town laughable.
Really overconfident, he could either be the best player ever or an arrogant egomaniac, and I feel like I'm in for the latter after he has wrongly labeled me as scum - the best player ever wouldn't misread me.
Did I already mention the fact that I feel like he has disrupted this game?

DK - beware the barner.

imopen2 - I'd like to have a chat with him, but he voted me then disappeared, so I don't really know how to answer here.

Not bargaining. I had actually accepted my fate, and kind of already have. I don't think I'll see D2 anyway, unless I can jail myself (I'll ask the mod) and we find some actual scum to lynch today. I've already stated why I'm changing my read on Az, maybe they're not the best reasons but I also tend to follow my gut when it comes to these games.

Unvote[/b:
2hp7jvaf]

Now let's see what rezmo has to say about everything.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:59 pm**

Oh well if Az say rn is town we can all back off!

Thanks Az!

What should everyones next move be? Want my login and password so you can post for me?

Dies to Removal

LEGO Movie Mafia - Game Over - Town Win