[Primer] Boros Burn

[HK1997]

I see it is a very handsome card and if you have it in play, I'm sure it can do a lot of work... But If people are considering a two-color-five-drop that does it's first thing on turn 6... why not consider Mogis God of Slaughter? He comes down on turn 4, has black, which we are already (mostly) fixed for anyways, he does either 2 dmg or removes an opponents creature the second you pass the turn. So it is half a turn faster and gives our opponent a choice between bad and worse. And in most cases, we should have burned out any sacable creatures anyways, giving a reliable source of 2 dmg per turn....

So
under the circumstance that people want to play keranos, isnt mogis just the better option?
One gives card advantage or burns for 3
The other kills a creature or burns for 2 and is "on-color" for us. If I was considering bringing in a God, surely it must be Mogis in favor of Keranos?

EDIT: oops. Mogis is a 4 drop even...

Yes mogis would be better, but even better then him would be purphoros (especially with YP) or even iroas, but that's a different deck all together.

I agree, I was just pointing out that if somebody is considering Keranos for this deck, that Mogis does pretty much the same thing and more in line with the current manabase.

[nme]

I don't think Mogis is better, because your opponent is always going to take the lesser of two evils. Keranos is straight up card advantage or free damage and your opponent has zero say in the matter.

[BlakLanner]

We can worry about it once more cards are spoiled.

For now, Vexing Devil?

In a more serious question: Bring back Purphoros as a 1-2 of for the YP builds?

[Toddington]

Is Purphoros better than Chandra?

Granted YP$ and Phoenix are great with Purphoros, but you have you have one of them or he does nothing, ever. Chandra is much more consistent in what she does, and forces a reaction.

In this deck, Purphoros is inconsistent and win-more?

[BurnItAllClean]

We can worry about it once more cards are spoiled.

For now, Vexing Devil?

In a more serious question: Bring back Purphoros as a 1-2 of for the YP builds?

I don't think so. I tried to make Purhporos work, but he does nothing unless you can get YP in play AND cast spells to start making tokens. It's to inconsistent.

[BlakLanner]

It may be that. I was just thinking the fun of adding 2 damage to every spell we cast. It also plays very well with Assemble. It may be too cute though.

[Aodh]

It is too cute. Young Pyromancer and Assemble the Legion can take over games without any help. No need to risk drawing Purphoros without one of the other two, because then he's dead.

[JohnnyfnB]

I agree that the burn package doesn't benefit from it. You would need YP active and or Assemble to really get full worth. Unfortunately, Iroas needed to have Keranos' power for us to use a God in this build. Iroas can work with YP, but again a totally different deck.

[BurnItAllClean]

It may be that. I was just thinking the fun of adding 2 damage to every spell we cast. It also plays very well with Assemble. It may be too cute though.

Yea, I'm with you. It's really fun when it does work out. But for the most part Big P did nothing and I had a sad.

[Purp]

Let's focus on making the current burn version the best we can. Purph is not the answer for that.

[JohnnyfnB]

Let's focus on making the current burn version the best we can. Purph is not the answer for that.

Agreed. Now Dictate of the Twin Gods, might be something we could use. It costs 5 and we already have Assemble, but it has flash and it turbo charges our burn spells. You can't and shouldn't compare it to Pyromancer's Gauntlet. Your Boros Charm does 8 dmg. DofTG can counter most life gain cards, especially the Staffs. It certainly needs to be looked into, because I think that control is going to explode. IMO

[DXI-Edge]

Can we not talk about it here?

Its not legal yet, and there is no point discussing a card we cant play yet.

[Toddington]

Dictate of the Twin Gods requires you have spells to cast after you resolve it. The first spell doubled after it doesn't count, because Dictate didn't do anything by itself. I'm not certain doubling the effect of all spells (and opposing creatures...) after the second one cast on turn 6 (at the earliest) is what we want.

EDIT: Ninja'd, this probably isn't the place for discussion.

[Elricity]

It may be that. I was just thinking the fun of adding 2 damage to every spell we cast. It also plays very well with Assemble. It may be too cute though.

There's already a card that does that doesn't always require YP to work. We don't run that card either.

[Aodh]

Right, let's make do with what we already have. Any new tech discovered this weekend? I man handled MBD at the GP, but lost pretty handily to Bant Control with Courser of Kruphix. I cast WLH on a 5/5 Jarad pre-combat which prevented me from earning a game 3 against dredge. The deck might pick up steam since it's cheap and has game against MBD. Anything we can do to combat them proactively? Would a well-timed threaten ever be possible?

[JohnnyfnB]

Dredge will be a problem. My friend plays it and it can get out of hand very fast. To the point where I had to side Rest in Peace for it. Pacifism is a good card too. It can be used in many different match ups. Also, if your running black sources for mana another possible sideboard card is Rakdos Charm. All 3 effects are useful.

[zemanjaski]

I will probably test RWu now.

How can you say this when you won't even test Stormbreath? There's no way Keranos does anything but severely hinder this burn strategy.

I HAVE tested Stormbreath and written about my experiences multiple times.

[zemanjaski]

Discussion will be for format legal cards only. Also stop discussing obviously bad cards. Don't make me list them.

[zenbitz]

I was testing on cockatrice yesterday and ran into nothing but GB or Junk dredge. Split them, but I was lucky to have wear/tear for whip every time. Actually beat an Obzedat (without glare). Golgari Charm is very dangerous because it board wipes YP+friends or blows up chains. Junk is actually worse because of ghost dad and sin collector and sometimes more whips.

It seems like not a good match up but not really worse than GRx. Obviously it's not popular enough for RIP or crypt incursion... but maybe 1 drops are good against it?
It does have plenty o' searing blood targets.

Possibly it's just a matter of not keeping slow starting hands.

[zemanjaski]

Junk is really rough when you both draw reasonably. Thankfully their deck has a lot more inconsistencies and it's quite possible for their draw to line up awkwardly against ours so it's not a total lost cause; and being a red deck means you're rarely worse than 40% in a matchup and I think it's slightly better than that.

I seem to be having the opposite experience to everyone else with dredge; I think I'm 11-2 (haven't got my spreadsheet handy).

[rage_jl]

Good mulligan calling (not simply all or no land send them back) is one of the most skill intensive parts of Magic in my opinion. Simply having a great gut for calls or being super lucky is better but it is harder to develop those approaches to the problem.

[Midnight_v]

So I'm going to play in Dallas, and I'm wondering whats the most current list for the meta. Are most of us backing the Firedancer, YP$ plan or is it straight burn.
I'm in dallas so I am still somewhat concerned about the B/W match up as its popular here, I've been watching the vids and I think we're okay vs the field. Is there any serious concerns with the decks.
Tier 1: Burn, Esper,Monoblack, (MonoU?), MONSTERS!
Tier2: Hexprooff, B/W, U/B Heroic, Various aggro decks(Rakdos/Air/Monoblack.
Tier 3: G/W little kid.
What should I concern myself with as far as mastering the side right now?

Thoughts?

[LP, of the Fires]

Tier 1 at this point is Mono-Black and Mono-Blue
Tier 1.5 is Esper, Burn, Monsters, BW mid, Mono-Blue splash white

And then there's everything else.

Mono-black is the most consistent, most powerful deck and litteral beats what it wants. Mono-Blue plays Thassa and master of waves. Esper is extremely powerful, but loses to decks trying to beat is. Burn is extremely good without being extremely powerful leading to it losing to decks trying to beat it, and pilot error fucking you in the ass. BW is the best deck in the format so long as you dodge lifebane zombie. Monsters(both varieties) are the best green midrange decks in a format unfriendly to green midrange decks, but they play the best walkers and mana accelration is one of the better things you can do in magic so you're still reaping the benefits of "powerful proacitve gameplan". UW devotion plays thassa and master of waves, and says fuck you by adding
detention sphere, hoping that you don't fuck up on tempo. If you don't you're playing the other best deck in the format.

Hope that helps.

[Valdarith]

Seems like an accurate analysis to me.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Mono blue is tier one?

[DXI-Edge]

Mono-Blue is tier one and esper is 1.5?

You should switch those buddy

[zemanjaski]

Actually;

Tier 1; Mono Black Control (54%), Esper Control (55%)
Tier 1.5; Burn (52%), Jund Monsters (53%)
Tier 2; Mono U Devotion (50%), BW Midrange (50%)

That's on straight win % which is the only thing that matters. Decks not mentioned are not good, or simply worse versions of decks that are mentioned (Mono B splash R; straight GR Monsters, UW Control etc).

What i can tell you right now about this format is that there isn't a big difference in power between the Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks; small tweaks or a particularly insightful understanding of a match up IS SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than whatever arbitrary figure you want to put on a deck's power. This is a very skill testing format, even if it isn't the most skill rewarding.

And, by way of comparison, decks by power level:

Most powerful
Jund Monsters
Esper Control
Mono U Devotion
BW Midrange
Mono Black Control
Boros Burn
[u:
q1hc7p2u]Least Powerful[/u]

FWIW I am tracking at an 81% win rate at competitive / professional level events this season, so the power level of Burn is fine, the deck is just extremely hard to play well (a better Zem would be above 90% I am sure).

[zemanjaski]

Conversely, anyone who tries to tell me that they outplayed someone while playing Mono U is a liar.

[BurnItAllClean]

This is why I play this deck.
T3 Trouble followed by his Duress then rage quit. "only sociopaths would enjoy playing a deck like that"

http://imgur.com/PHyyGwt

[DXI-Edge]

Conversely, anyone who tries to tell me that they outplayed someone while playing Mono U is a liar.

I've done it.....

[LP, of the Fires]

Conversely, anyone who tries to tell me that they outplayed someone while playing Mono U is a liar.

Scrub.

[magicdownunder]

If we're going to argue that sequencing burns takes skills (which it does) then the combat step is also arguably deep/skillful (that said, unless your in the mirror or against another creature based deck its hard to show this skill ).

[JohnnyfnB]

Actually;

Tier 1; Mono Black Control (54%), Esper Control (55%)
Tier 1.5; Burn (52%), Jund Monsters (53%)
Tier 2; Mono U Devotion (50%), BW Midrange (50%)

That's on straight win % which is the only thing that matters. Decks not mentioned are not good, or simply worse versions of decks that are mentioned (Mono B splash R; straight GR Monsters, UW Control etc).

What i can tell you right now about this format is that there isn't a big difference in power between the Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks; small tweaks or a particularly insightful understanding of a match up IS SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than whatever arbitrary figure you want to put on a deck's power. This is a very skill testing format, even if it isn't the most skill rewarding.

And, by way of
comparison, decks by power level:

Most powerful
Jund Monsters
Esper Control
Mono U Devotion
BW Midrange
Mono Black Control
Boros Burn
Least Powerful

FWIW I am tracking at an 81% win rate at competitive / professional level events this season, so the power level of Burn is fine, the deck is just extremely hard to play well (a better Zem would be above 90% I am sure).

One thing to consider is your skill level and the countless hours you have put into the deck. Not taking anything away from burn, but those are two very important factors. Have the average Joe play the same deck against the same opponents and that's a much lower number. I know burn is still perfectly placed now and a very good meta choice.

[Midnight_v]

I do keep getting literally SLAUGHTERED, against B/W midrange on cockatrice. . . I also can't find a single video where its Burn vs B/W except ironically the last big tourney in Dallas. I'm really worried about that matchup. Am I doing something wrong or are they simply our natural predator?

[Purp]

Post your decklist, SB, as well as provide information on how you SB on the play vs on the draw.

[rage_jl]

I killed a Ghost Dad with an Assemble token and a Helix a couple days ago. You can save your burn to 2 for 1 his creatures if you do not have: "If I dump my hand the next 3 turns I win." I'm at least 50-50 (matches they usually win at least one game in the matches I win and vice versa) to Bw if not better. You're going to have games where you fail to draw the answers and they have two demons and two Ghost Dads but that is part of playing and there is nothing you can do about it. You have to play tight but you have to do that every game with this deck.

[LaZerBurn]

I do keep getting literally SLAUGHTERED, against B/W midrange on cockatrice. . . I also can't find a single video where its Burn vs B/W except ironically the last big tourney in Dallas. I'm really worried about that matchup. Am I doing something wrong or are they simply our natural predator?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-g3rUGN ... G&index=30

[Midnight_v]

Post your decklist, SB, as well as provide information on how you SB on the play vs on the draw.

No,no,no,no I'm sorry I asked the wrong question. What I'm asking you is "Is B/W considered the bad matchup with burn" I hear a lot of them say that.
Thanks for the link Lb.... Wtf... How did I miss that vid. I know you and I are like checking all of MDU'S Stuff out, though so I'm surprised

[zemanjaski]

I mostly beat it it

[Midnight_v]

hahaha

"git gud" in otherwords Thanks team! LOL

Actually, I'm not sure what list I should be running. I was on B/R for the last 3 weeks and burn before that but changing back... I'm not even sure what list we're on now. I had been running NBW's list the last couple days to try it out but I'm not sure whats best really. Its texas and the paper meta's is always kinda screwy.